Support NeoGAF

[wonzo]

its funny as hell the sex party are ditching their name (the one thing that gets them votes) to rebrand as some weenie centrist party

Are we talking about a construction that by happenstance include the N word or one that deliberately uses it ? Because in the case of the former I am inclined to agree, the Scunthorpe problem is insufficient ground for much of anything.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...e-queensland-calls-time-on-racist-place-names

 

[Elaugaufein]

its funny as hell the sex party are ditching their name (the one thing that gets them votes) to rebrand as some weenie centrist party

I think it's a reference to the Libertarian Reason publication rather than centrist bad such. But I agree it's likely to be a net loss. They either lose continuity or lose the benefit of the cover of a less controversial name.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...e-queensland-calls-time-on-racist-place-names

I'm completely okay with that removal then.

 

[Jintor]

Anti same sex marriage ads already on tv. Great times for all. :/

 

[wonzo]

I think it's a reference to the Libertarian Reason publication rather than centrist bad such. But I agree it's likely to be a net loss. They either lose continuity or lose the benefit of the cover of a less controversial name.

thats what i thought at first but they explicitly said it was inspired by Macron's centrist campaign lol

 

[Elaugaufein]

Anti same sex marriage ads already on tv. Great times for all. :/

The ad is pretty aenemic. It's only offensive in the way that is unavoidable for a position that requires you to think of LGTB people as inherently lesser / wrong ie it conflates fairness for them with wrongness and loss (it is doubtful that they'd be able to communicate at all if that was barred).

It's also sort of incoherent since it takes the Abbott approach.

 

[danm999]

That ad isn't going to convince anyone on the fence. It's got nothing to do with marriage. It's just red meat for the "genderless dystopia" crowd who will vote No regardless.

 

[Aarglefarg]

Uhlmann is leaving the ABC for 9 News.

https://twitter.com/CUhlmann/status/902750398276149248

 

[wonzo]

Uhlmann is leaving the ABC for 9 News.

https://twitter.com/CUhlmann/status/902750398276149248

good news for a change

 

[Elaugaufein]

Is it ? I mean this is going to fire up the usual suspects about any right wing views being driven from the ABC. And as far as Rightwingers Who Get Airtime goes Uhlmann is utterly benign compared to Bolt , most Radio Shockjocks and pretty much anyone on Sky between 1800 and 2200 on a week night.

 

[Arksy]

Did I imagine it or did Turnbull just advise people to vote yes?

 

[Elaugaufein]

Did I imagine it on did Turnbull just advise people to vote yes?

Turnbull has been basically saying vote Yes in as hilariously unobtrusive way as possible the entire time. Or do you mean he just phrased it in a way that was more overt than 'I will be voting yes' (so by implication I think you should too).

 

[Arksy]

Turnbull has been basically saying vote Yes in as hilariously unobtrusive way as possible the entire time. Or do you mean he just phrased it in a way that was more overt than 'I will be voting yes' (so by implication I think you should too).

Hard to tell, I was just shocked to see him let alone hear him speak.

 

[bobnowhere]

Hard to tell, I was just shocked to see him let alone hear him speak.

He's been pretty careful so far to not encourage anyone to vote a specific way while in the same sentence mentioning that he and Lucy will be voting yes. Maybe he let his personal opinion slip for a second, the backbench will punish.

 

[Aarglefarg]

What is the quote?

 

[Jintor]

What's the go on overseas survey goers?

 

[Elaugaufein]

What's the go on overseas survey goers?

Last thing I saw on twitter was that you had to visit the ABS website or call to get a unique identifier you can use online or something

You can also assign a trusted person to vote for you (dunno how)

 

[Arksy]

As an aside from a constitutional law perspective, I would be shocked if the vote survives the challenge.

 

[Elaugaufein]

As an aside from a constitutional law perspective, I would be shocked if the vote survives the challenge.

You seem to be in agreeance with every Constitutional law expert the papers can find.

 

[Arksy]

You seem to be in agreeance with every Constitutional law expert the papers can find.

The idea that the government can spend money without the consent of parliament has been struck down in half a dozen cases already in the last 10 years, the only one that made it through was stimulus package that was successfully argued as an emergency measure.

 

[bobnowhere]

House redistribution coming out tomorrow and it's likely to be more bad news for Turnbull. +1 in Vic and +1 in the ACT and -1 in SA.

Probably 2 safe Labor seats will become 3 safe Labor seats in Victoria, Pyne's or Zappia's seat will disappear in SA and become notionally Labor or 2 Lib rural seats will become 1 and the 3rd ACT seat should be easy ALP, Roz Kelly and her white board will be nowhere to be seen!

At the next election Lib 75, ALP 71 notionally without the 4.5% swing against in the meantime.

The idea that the government can spend money without the consent of parliament has been struck down in half a dozen cases already in the last 10 years, the only one that made it through was stimulus package that was successfully argued as an emergency measure.

I assume you saw the guy at the press club today? Yeah nothing urgent or unforseen about the postal survey, have to wonder if the survey is even genuine or just another attempt to push the issue down the road.

Derryn might be off to the HC as well, apparently he still has a social security card from the USA and is eligible for a pension possibly tripping the "entitled to the rights or privileges" part.

 

[Arksy]

I assume you saw the guy at the press club today? Yeah nothing urgent or unforseen about the postal survey, have to wonder if the survey is even genuine or just another attempt to push the issue down the road.

Derryn might be off to the HC as well, apparently he still has a social security card from the USA and is eligible for a pension possibly tripping the "entitled to the rights or privileges" part.

Nah didn't see it. What did I miss?

I don't think it's a way to kick the issue down the road I think it's a way for super conservative members of parliament to save face. Everyone knows how the vote will go but this way they have plausible deniability. The no campaign has been pretty pathetic so far and support for gay marriage has hit supermajority status. It's just a way for conservative backbenchers to be able to save face and not take any flack for gay marriage being law.

 

[bobnowhere]

Nah didn't see it. What did I miss?

I don't think it's a way to kick the issue down the road I think it's a way for super conservative members of parliament to save face. Everyone knows how the vote will go but this way they have plausible deniability. The no campaign has been pretty pathetic so far and support for gay marriage has hit supermajority status. It's just a way for conservative backbenchers to be able to save face and not take any flack for gay marriage being law.

George Williams, the constitutional lawyer

Basically said he thought the survey was very unlikely to be allowed by the HC as he couldn't see the unforseen or urget test being met to allow the spending to bypass parliament. As for all the dual citizens he was pretty conservative to the idea that the HC was going to take an activist view or support the dissenting view from Skykes vs. Cleary and was a little surprised that Joyce and Nash were remaining ministers. I'm sure it's on iView.

 

[Bernbaum]

Any red blooded heterosexual man that has worn a dress knows that they are insanely comfortable.

Jeans are a bloody prison.

Vote no

Spoiler

to jeans

 

[Arksy]

George Williams, the constitutional lawyer

Basically said he thought the survey was very unlikely to be allowed by the HC as he couldn't see the unforseen or urget test being met to allow the spending to bypass parliament. As for all the dual citizens he was pretty conservative to the idea that the HC was going to take an activist view or support the dissenting view from Skykes vs. Cleary and was a little surprised that Joyce and Nash were remaining ministers. I'm sure it's on iView.

I only saw an article on the postal vote, didn't see that, thanks for linking. Yeah I agree with George here. I think he's also right that the HC will take a conservative view of s44. Hopefully it's an impetus to change s44 but I can't see it happening. I don't think it will catch Hinch though I think that reading is a bit too broad.

 

[Elaugaufein]

George Williams, the constitutional lawyer

Basically said he thought the survey was very unlikely to be allowed by the HC as he couldn't see the unforseen or urget test being met to allow the spending to bypass parliament. As for all the dual citizens he was pretty conservative to the idea that the HC was going to take an activist view or support the dissenting view from Skykes vs. Cleary and was a little surprised that Joyce and Nash were remaining ministers. I'm sure it's on iView.

The Parliament is in a bit of a bind here given that they've been told at least twice s44 was problematic and never took any steps at all towards resolution, which sorta suggests that inactivity suggests approval

I wonder if s44 reform is even necessary. Theoretically Parliament should be able to make the act of Nomination for federal office a de facto revocation of foreign allegiance / citizenship. Since the act of becoming a citizen used to do that, it's likely Parliament has the power to legislate , that some act taken in the process is such, or they could authorisw the AEC to make such checks and make appropriate contact, which would have to pass the reasonable effort threshold..

Any red blooded heterosexual man that has worn a dress knows that they are insanely comfortable.

Jeans are a bloody prison.

Vote no

Spoiler

to jeans

Need Moar Pockets. Though the absurdly tight pockets you usually find on jeans also need moar pocket.

 

[bobnowhere]

I only saw an article on the postal vote, didn't see that, thanks for linking. Yeah I agree with George here. I think he's also right that the HC will take a conservative view of s44. Hopefully it's an impetus to change s44 but I can't see it happening. I don't think it will catch Hinch though I think that reading is a bit too broad.

Forgot to mention Williams hadn't read the government's argument regarding the postal survey, that was due to be published this afternoon.

 

[Candescence]

Okay, now Hinch is potentially implicated in the whole Section 44 mess thanks to his US social security card. We're not at peak stupid here, folks.

The Parliament is in a bit of a bind here given that they've been told at least twice s44 was problematic and never took any steps at all towards resolution, which sorta suggests that inactivity suggests approval

I wonder if s44 reform is even necessary. Theoretically Parliament should be able to make the act of Nomination for federal office a de facto revocation of foreign allegiance / citizenship. Since the act of becoming a citizen used to do that, it's likely Parliament has the power to legislate , that some act taken in the process is such, or they could authorisw the AEC to make such checks and make appropriate contact, which would have to pass the reasonable effort threshold.

Honestly, the de facto revocation part makes sense to me - make nominees swear a proper oath of allegiance to Australia and its sovereignty, and automatically rescind any other form of citizenship or allegiance to any other nation, regardless of whatever the hell other nations' citizenship laws entail.

 

[bomma_man]

I only saw an article on the postal vote, didn't see that, thanks for linking. Yeah I agree with George here. I think he's also right that the HC will take a conservative view of s44. Hopefully it's an impetus to change s44 but I can't see it happening. I don't think it will catch Hinch though I think that reading is a bit too broad.

here's the full text

 

[danm999]

What a nightmare for the govt if the postal vote is struck down.

Kicks the can down the road, doesn't solve the internal LNP bickering, makes the govt look like muppets for proposing an unconstitutional mess, nearly 100k new mostly young voters on the roll next election...

 

[Elaugaufein]

What a nightmare for the govt if the postal vote is struck down.

Kicks the can down the road, doesn't solve the internal LNP bickering, makes the govt look like muppets for proposing an unconstitutional mess, nearly 100k new mostly young voters on the roll next election...

A fair chunk of those voters aren't 18-24 (but of course a disproportionate number are since that's the group with lowest enrollment) but I don't know what sort of split we're looking at for other groups that would be considered "young" for this purpose (I suspect we're probably looking at somewhere in the middle of Gen X since the move towards non-hostile depictions of same sex relationships in mass media appeared in the mid to late 90s.)

 

[wonzo]

A fair chunk of those voters aren't 18-24 (but of course a disproportionate number are since that's the group with lowest enrollment)

https://twitter.com/oz_f/status/902783409176551424

 

[Elaugaufein]

The governments arguments in the survey appear to be:

a) no one has the standing to challenge us on this (? I'm not sure how you can make the argument a member of Parliament cannot challenge on the basis this is unauthorised spending with a straight face but someone is).
And
b) The Parliament not doing what we want is ipso facto an urgent and unforseen need to devise a method to end run them. ( Is this a preview of the Joyce defence ? Our incompetence justifies a novel reading of the law lest we fall on our faces ?)

 

[Bernbaum]

Need Moar Pockets. Though the absurdly tight pockets you usually find on jeans also need moar pocket.

Bro, handbag

 

[Elaugaufein]

Bro, handbag

I like having my hands free.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Bro, handbag

It has the added benefit that you can carry your Switch with you. Can't do that with jean pockets.

 

[bomma_man]

The governments arguments in the survey appear to be:

a) no one has the standing to challenge us on this (? I'm not sure how you can make the argument a member of Parliament cannot challenge on the basis this is unauthorised spending with a straight face but someone is).
And
b) The Parliament not doing what we want is ipso facto an urgent and unforseen need to devise a method to end run them. ( Is this a preview of the Joyce defence ? Our incompetence justifies a novel reading of the law lest we fall on our faces ?)

I knew they'd argue the first one. Given how (as Arksy said) tough the court's been on unauthorised spending recently (although the composition has changed a fair amount) I can't imagine they'll succeed. I mean who would or could have standing if an MP doesn't?

 

[bobnowhere]

Hinch is referring himself to the HC, obviously the advice wasn't positive.

George Christensen has to be next, he's essentially admitted he's in the same boat as Joyce and Nash. He's probably trying to fly under the Radar but Parliament is back soon and heat will come back on.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Hinch is referring himself to the HC, obviously the advice wasn't positive.

George Christensen has to be next, he's essentially admitted he's in the same boat as Joyce and Nash. He's probably trying to fly under the Radar but Parliament is back soon and heat will come back on.

Hinch is interesting , the section seems to refer to being an effective citizen though not explicitly named as such, since rights is used in the plural rather than the singular or a construction like any of the rights , so having access to some benefit that is also granted to citizens may be fine. Hinch is correct to refer himself in the absence of clear judgement though.

Something about Kate Gallagher too possibly? It's likely Labor is in for serious scrutiny if that holds since it torpedoes the vetting process defence.

 

[danm999]

The Nats right now

 

[bobnowhere]

Something about Kate Gallagher too possibly? It's likely Labor is in for serious scrutiny if that holds since it torpedoes the vetting process defence.

It seems as though that was a bit of a beat up on the behalf of the the Telegraph. The Ecudorian Constitution was changed in 2008 to automatically grant citizenship to those with relatives back to the great grandparent, her mother was born there, but it wasn't backdated to those before and she would need to actively claim citizenship.

 

[Elaugaufein]

It seems as though that was a bit of a beat up on the behalf of the the Telegraph. The Ecudorian Constitution was changed in 2008 to automatically grant citizenship to those with relatives back to the great grandparent, her mother was born there, but it wasn't backdated to those before and she would need to actively claim citizenship.

Makes sense, I did a quick check for details but couldn't find anything.

 

[Elaugaufein]

The No campaign seems to be against the discussion of sexuality and gender identity at all, and yet this entire plebisurvey thing was their demand. I'm so confused about what they thought was going to happen.

 

[Bernbaum]

The No campaign seems to be against the discussion of sexuality and gender identity at all, and yet this entire plebisurvey thing was their demand. I'm so confused about what they thought was going to happen.

The current situation was their best chance at delaying the inevitable. Abbott did what he could to stop it being voted on in parliament, and no we've got a non-binding voluntary survey. Now that we're here, they're trying to figure out what they can do to keep their platform alive but all we're seeing is their frustration as they conflate the issue.

I'ma Yes voter that doesn't really care that much about the issue, but the Yes camp really do have a clearer and coherent campaign. I don't think the ACL mum's ad did much to win anyone over.

 

[Shandy]

They know their typical arguments don't hold up to any scrutiny so they have no choice but to conflate it with tangentially-related issues that the public at large is still in the process of learning about. Blatant manipulation.

 

[Arksy]

As I said, it's a way for the conservative members of Parliament to save face. Hardly any of them are really coming out and saying anything and are just going to sit back and let it pass.

 

[danm999]

Hinch is not going to the High Court.

 

[bobnowhere]

Hinch is not going to the High Court.

The government saw through it pretty quickly as an attention grab and a ploy to push for an audit.

 

[danm999]

Shorten produced his renunciation letter, stressing he does not want to start a precedent of people being forced to produce evidence of renunciation.

To be honest I think that's exactly what he wants.

 

[bobnowhere]

Shorten produced his renunciation letter, stressing he does not want to start a precedent of people being forced to produce evidence of renunciation.

To be honest I think that's exactly what he wants.

If he'd had a mic. he should have dropped it. Set Malcolm up, watched his unhinged rant and then nailed him to the wall. Keating was right, like usual:

"First, he should know that Turnbull was brilliant. Second, that Turnbull was utterly fearless.

At this point Rudd, an irritated Rudd, demanded to know, 'Is there any good news here?' Keating replied with his third point: Turnbull has no judgment. Keating must be feeling vindicated today.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I think it's more likely be realised that such was inevitable.

When you have 7 people at the High Court the public tend to see that as a need for MPs to prove there won't be any more issues.