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[DenchDeckard]

This is mistaken thinking.

Let's say the size of the PS platform is 120 million and the size of the Xbox platform is 60 million. In your mind for Sony to realize success they should hit 180 million units.

What percent of Xbox owners own a PlayStation already? Let's make up a number and say 10 million. That's 10 million that aren't simply going to buy an extra PlayStation they already own one.

Now what percentage of that 60 million might also own a PC? Let's say 15 million. Maybe these people only had an Xbox to play some games through Xbox Live with friends. That's another 15 million that Sony isn't likely to get.

Now let's also say another 10 million are fanboys and simply won't buy PlayStation under any circumstances and they'll now invest in PC, especially if Microsoft keeps their entitlements alive there and Xbox Live alive there.

That means Sony TAM gain is closer to 25 million units and that's not even including how many people just jump to Nintendo. So you're probably looking at a TAM increase of 20-35 million units with Xbox leaving the console space.

It's not nothing for sure, but the real gains for Sony probably comes from increased operating margins from not needing to market against Xbox. Fewer exclusivity deals, marketing deals. And it probably comes from Sony spending that money in other avenues such as PC storefronts and handheld gaming which will give a higher ROI than just competing with Microsoft.

What you'll see is massively higher software sales, subscriptions, and MTX/Add-on revenue.

I 100% get this and you are spitting facts. That's what I'm getting at.

Sony is doing extremely well with 0 competition they price the pro console at 800 pounds with a disk drive. This has retailers shook as the sales of the pro are not as strong as ps4 pro due to the price. This has retailers thinking in kind of ridiculous terms. They think the price of the pro is due to 0 competition. Some of that may be true but components cost a lot too.

The problem is. Retailers fear for a completely Sony dominant console space. Nintendo operates in their own hemisphere to retailers. They want and desire a strong leading competitor to Sony.

They see data of people migrating to pc and are now getting behind that, increasingly YoY.

Just keep a look out for how retailers market 50 series launch that normally wouldn't.

I can only comment for the uk, but there is going to be a significant push for PC gaming this year. Forecasts of another 15 to 20 % growth on pc gaming and more declines for consoles.

It doesn't look healthy to these large retailers.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I 100% get this and you are spitting facts. That's what I'm getting at.

Sony is doing extremely well with 0 competition they price the pro console at 800 pounds with a disk drive. This has retailers shook as the sales of the pro are not as strong as ps4 pro due to the price. This has retailers thinking in kind of ridiculous terms. They think the price of the pro is due to 0 competition. Some of that may be true but components cost a lot too.

The problem is. Retailers fear for a completely Sony dominant console space. Nintendo operates in their own hemisphere to retailers. They want and desire a strong leading competitor to Sony.

They see data of people migrating to pc and are now getting behind that, increasingly YoY.

Just keep a look out for how retailers market 50 series launch that normally wouldn't.

I can only comment for the uk, but there is going to be a significant push for PC gaming this year. Forecasts of another 15 to 20 % growth on pc gaming and more declines for consoles.

It doesn't look healthy to these large retailers.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I 100% get this and you are spitting facts. That's what I'm getting at.

Sony is doing extremely well with 0 competition they price the pro console at 800 pounds with a disk drive. This has retailers shook as the sales of the pro are not as strong as ps4 pro due to the price. This has retailers thinking in kind of ridiculous terms. They think the price of the pro is due to 0 competition. Some of that may be true but components cost a lot too.

The problem is. Retailers fear for a completely Sony dominant console space. Nintendo operates in their own hemisphere to retailers. They want and desire a strong leading competitor to Sony.

They see data of people migrating to pc and are now getting behind that, increasingly YoY.

Just keep a look out for how retailers market 50 series launch that normally wouldn't.

I can only comment for the uk, but there is going to be a significant push for PC gaming this year. Forecasts of another 15 to 20 % growth on pc gaming and more declines for consoles.

It doesn't look healthy to these large retailers.

All reports have the PS5 Pro largely in line with the PS4 Pro in terms of sales, which is impressive given that it's nearly double the price.

Retailers are looking for any growth avenues they can with the decline of Xbox. As I said, there is too much overlap and alternatives for that revenue to simply be replaced by Sony.

Sony isn't afraid of Microsoft, but they're at least a distraction preventing Sony from being too obtuse. It's a bad thing that Xbox has been allowed to get to where it is, but I think most put that squarely on Xbox fanboys who have parroted influencer talking points for years rather than keeping Microsoft honest.

I don't think PC will necessarily be the avenue you think it will be as the costs associated with it and complexity is far greater than the average consumer is up for. What we have to hope for is a cheap PS5 over the next few years, a suitable entry price for the Switch 2, and maybe a new competitor emerging into the console market as unlikely as that may be, and despite what GAF thinks some element of cloud gaming, putting downward pressure on Sony.

 

[DenchDeckard]

James Sawyer Ford clones looking in the mirror!

 

[DenchDeckard]

All reports have the PS5 Pro largely in line with the PS4 Pro in terms of sales, which is impressive given that it's nearly double the price.

Retailers are looking for any growth avenues they can with the decline of Xbox. As I said, there is too much overlap and alternatives for that revenue to simply be replaced by Sony.

Sony isn't afraid of Microsoft, but they're at least a distraction preventing Sony from being too obtuse. It's a bad thing that Xbox has been allowed to get to where it is, but I think most put that squarely on Xbox fanboys who have parroted influencer talking points for years rather than keeping Microsoft honest.

I don't think PC will necessarily be the avenue you think it will be as the costs associated with it and complexity is far greater than the average consumer is up for. What we have to hope for is a cheap PS5 over the next few years, a suitable entry price for the Switch 2, and maybe a new competitor emerging into the console market as unlikely as that may be, and despite what GAF thinks some element of cloud gaming, putting downward pressure on Sony.

Out of interest, Which reports are you talking about?

From what I have heard this week it is not performing well in the uk and it is now behind in Japan. The gap will only widen from now in that region.

Look, console sales do not equate to software sales. Even sonys software sales for first party are in steady decline. Do you think when this continues people will be singing all this " Sonys doing great in console sales, everyone's in denial"

Software development costs aren't reducing they are increasing.

I'm struggling how you, who is obviously intelligent isn't grasping that this math equation doesn't add up.

Yes, Sony are selling consoles and that's great for them. But the software on their platform alone is reducing in sales for sequels when the userbase is growing. It is not striking a positive message in the industry.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Out of interest, Which reports are you talking about?

Reports from Sony themselves, Dring in November, actually I think it was Mat P, Famitsu charts...

From what I have heard this week it is not performing well in the uk and it is now behind in Japan. The gap will only widen from now in that region.

It's not a measure of whether it's behind or not, it's a matter of what percentage and how offset that is by the additional revenue.

Look, console sales do not equate to software sales. Even sonys software sales for first party are in steady decline. Do you think when this continues people will be singing all this " Sonys doing great in console sales, everyone's in denial"

You realize that Sony just released a game that was likely their fastest selling game of all time in Helldivers 2 right? You realize that Spider-Man 2 is charting in its second year and that God of War Ragnarok charted in its 3rd year... I just don't understand how you're so disconnected from reality here.

Software development costs aren't reducing they are increasing.

I'm struggling how you, who is obviously intelligent isn't grasping that this math equation doesn't add up.

See above.

Yes, Sony are selling consoles and that's great for them. But the software on their platform alone is reducing in sales for sequels when the userbase is growing. It is not striking a positive message in the industry.

Sony's revenue and operating income are increasing every fiscal year... I just don't understand where you're coming with this.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

First earnings call without the ABK bump?

Exactly.

It'll be very difficult to hide decline with ABK in for a full year. We'll almost certainly see the impacts of CoD on GamePass...

 

[DForce]

Welfare
"Xbox Hardware Is Declining Fast"

 

[simpatico]

I don’t think the effects of Sony serving a turd buffet for games this gen will be felt in hardware sales until PS6. Like the way Series is paying for the sins of the Bone.

 

[SNG32]

PC mostly.

Which helps explain this sudden PC vs playstation nonsense that's been going on in recent months.

Which is wild to me. Gaming is at a point where everyone has their own corner and approach to gaming. The only competition Sony has was Xbox because they both are console. I don’t put Nintendo here because I don’t look at the switch as a console and more of a handheld. Then you have PC which is pretty much the most open experience you can have to gaming In terms of personalization and customizing your experience from modding, tuning graphics, and hardware.

Now that Microsoft is going third party we can get finally what we been asking from them GAMES. Because they have no choice now since they are pushing the gamepass service and putting hardware slowly on the back burner.

 

[Klayzer]

You realize that Sony just released a game that was likely their fastest selling game of all time in Helldivers 2 right? You realize that Spider-Man 2 is charting in its second year and that God of War Ragnarok charted in its 3rd year... I just don't understand how you're so disconnected from reality here.

Actual facts, versus "feelings" rarely line up with their opinions.

 

[Banjo64]

Being down on the One is, to be honest, completely unforgivable and baffling. I know the One S and X sort of soft rebooted the image of the console, but that was Xbox’s worst generation. They haven’t been good this time around from a first party perspective, but they’ve been better and the hardware is much better this time around.

 

[tr1p1ex]

yet it's the worst gen.

but i guess for some it's the only gen which then makes it the best gen.

 

[jm89]

Welfare
"Xbox Hardware Is Declining Fast"

 

[Brucey]

Jim Ryan projected that the PS5 will do 108 million. I'm guessing he's closer to being right.

Obviously thats way lower than what it's going to end up at, when did he make that prediction?

 

[YeulEmeralda]

yet it's the worst gen.

but i guess for some it's the only gen which then makes it the best gen.

I kinda agree but don't think that is only Sony's fault.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Being down on the One is, to be honest, completely unforgivable and baffling. I know the One S and X sort of soft rebooted the image of the console, but that was Xbox’s worst generation. They haven’t been good this time around from a first party perspective, but they’ve been better and the hardware is much better this time around.

Most Xbox One consoles were sold early into the generation while the goodwill from the 360 days was still fresh in the public’s minds. Once they started releasing games day and date on PC Xbox One sales fell.

PS4’s success and customer’s digital libraries made it an easy decision once next gen rolled around, Series X never stood a chance.

 

[DonJimbo]

PS5 the worst Playstation Console benefiting from the Name selling so well Brand loyality that doesnt exist for Xbox sadly

 

[onQ123]

I'm glad I'm not the only one with an eye for the BS nowadays lol.


Now that the last MO ( pushing the momentum & potential angle for Xbox ) is falling through now everyone is pushing the fear of no competition angle.

 

[onQ123]

PS5 the worst Playstation Console benefiting from the Name selling so well Brand loyality that doesnt exist for Xbox sadly

That's what we going with?

 

[SkylineRKR]

Most Xbox One consoles were sold early into the generation while the goodwill from the 360 days was still fresh in the public’s minds. Once they started releasing games day and date on PC Xbox One sales fell.

PS4’s success and customer’s digital libraries made it an easy decision once next gen rolled around, Series X never stood a chance.

This is what Phil Spencer himself said as well. According to him they lost the most important generation, the one with full digital libraries and persistent ecosystems. He has a point, but you can still sway consumers, or you can make them purchase an extra console. The Series S I think had potential to be a second console next to the PS5, but MS never really aimed at that.

MS actually had an advantage in 2013. Sony needed to erase entirety of the PS3. Nothing you owned either digital or physical would work on PS4. They started from zero, but they could get away with it back then. It wasn't as persistent as it is today, even on Xbox One it wasn't like all 360 content worked. They had to manually patch games. But today, everything (or 99%) worked from day one. Digital or physical. Save games, sticks.. everything. You are more likely to stick with a brand now.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

MS actually had an advantage in 2013. Sony needed to erase entirety of the PS3. Nothing you owned either digital or physical would work on PS4. They started from zero, but they could get away with it back then. It wasn't as persistent as it is today, even on Xbox One it wasn't like all 360 content worked. They had to manually patch games. But today, everything (or 99%) worked from day one. Digital or physical. Save games, sticks.. everything. You are more likely to stick with a brand now.

The cut off with PS3 is due to Sony not being confident in PS4’s x86 ability to emulate Cell.

Still, I doubt many PS3 owners jumped ship to Xbone.

 

[bender]

I just don't understand how you're so disconnected from reality here.

But you are replaying to DenchDeckard ...

 

[skyfinch]

Series consoles are lagging because Xbox One was driven by Kinect. It was a beast. For you young ones imagine this. Moving your arm around in real life and in the game, the character swings a light saber. It was basically VR jr.

 

[Brucey]

Series consoles are lagging because Xbox One was driven by Kinect. It was a beast. For you young ones imagine this. Moving your arm around in real life and in the game, the character swings a light saber. It was basically VR jr.

Yes truly magical...
Post in thread 'Is there any gameplay demo's more cringy than old Kinect demos?' https://www.neogaf.com/threads/is-t...-than-old-kinect-demos.1351590/post-238532319

 

[zedinen]

December 2024 Top 20 Best-Selling Games

Sony 4

December 2017 Top 20 Best-Selling Games

Sony 0

 

[Panajev2001a]

You probably know this already, but the confusion is because people are using different meanings for the word "Xbox." Most people use "Xbox" to refer to the console hardware. Others, mostly Xbox fans, are using it to refer to any games that are published by MS

This is the difference between the hard core fans which are very sensitive to whatever Xbox marketing says it is the word of the day and the rest. Up until MS started to redefine what Xbox meant, which is when they started the pivot to multi-platform publishing, nobody even pretended to be confused.

The most hardcore fans also relish the ability not to have to focus on Xbox as a platform being hurt in favour of MS Gaming as a games publisher. So now everything is an Xbox and the old mantra of “Xbox is doing well, you will see” can continue .

 

[MacReady13]

PS5 beating PS4 is an impressive feat.

Xbox console sales collapsed in 2024 and in 2025 they likely won’t even sell 3 million globally.

Prediction: Xbox Series unit sales will only reach 32 million, behind that of the N64.

Just imagine Sony had PlayStations to sell in the 1st couple of years of the PS5’s life…

 

[Panajev2001a]

Just imagine Sony had PlayStations to sell in the 1st couple of years of the PS5’s life…

It would have allowed more companies to optimise for PS5 or try but more PS5 exclusives. Probably the cross-generation window lasted longer and had stronger effects than it could have if PS5 had been available with higher a supplies.

 

[yogaflame]

A price drop this year for ps5 will be the nail in the coffin.

 

[onQ123]

December 2024 Top 20 Best-Selling Games

Sony 4

December 2017 Top 20 Best-Selling Games

Sony 0

The fact that Mario Kart 8 is still there 7 years later is crazy


This should also end all the fake claims of this being PlayStation's worst generation.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

A price drop this year for ps5 will be the nail in the coffin.

Once they get that big GTA VI sales bump it’s happening

 

[Humdinger]

This is the difference between the hard core fans which are very sensitive to whatever Xbox marketing says it is the word of the day and the rest. Up until MS started to redefine what Xbox meant, which is when they started the pivot to multi-platform publishing, nobody even pretended to be confused.

The most hardcore fans also relish the ability not to have to focus on Xbox as a platform being hurt in favour of MS Gaming as a games publisher. So now everything is an Xbox and the old mantra of “Xbox is doing well, you will see” can continue .

Yeah, I see that a lot in Youtube comments on channels that have a large Xbox contingent. They talk about how great "Xbox" is doing, including financially. I have to stop myself and go "What?" And then translate.

I get it. If you're an Xbox fan with a console war orientation, you've been hearing bad news for a year about Xbox games going to PS and about declining Xbox sales. I'm sure that wears on you. After a while, you would be happy to grasp at a redefinition of the word "Xbox," so you can feel like you're a winner again. MS invited them to do it with that "What is an Xbox" campaign, and they accepted.

 

[ANoa]

This should also end all the fake claims of this being PlayStation's worst generation.

From a consumer perspective it is. Worst software, skyrocketing subscription fees with worse benefits, and the push to a digital future through a $700 Pro console with no disc drive. Shareholders are happy though.

Wonder how long that poll is going to live rent free in so many heads.

 

[Spiral1407]

This is what happens when there's no competition. An underwhelming console with no games somehow ends up outperforming its predecessor that had tons of them. Therefore, there's no excuse for Sony to improve from here on. At least the Xbone TRIED to compete with exclusives for half of its gen, XSX has practically been given up on since starfield launched.

 

[onQ123]

From a consumer perspective it is. Worst software, skyrocketing subscription fees with worse benefits, and the push to a digital future through a $700 Pro console with no disc drive. Shareholders are happy though.

Wonder how long that poll is going to live rent free in so many heads.

You just named a bunch of stuff that don't even effect most consumers.


Also claiming it's worse software while the data shows that last generation around this time it was 0 PlayStation studio games in the top 20 vs 4 PlayStation studio games this time around says that the people buying games disagree with you.

 

[damidu]

From a consumer perspective it is. Worst software, skyrocketing subscription fees with worse benefits, and the push to a digital future through a $700 Pro console with no disc drive. Shareholders are happy though.

Wonder how long that poll is going to live rent free in so many heads.

nah shareholders are not the ones buying the console, consumers are. seems they are pretty happy.
you can keep voting to some polls and opening doom threads though, if it helps you cope better

 

[Fafalada]

December 2024 Top 20 Best-Selling Games

Sony 4

December 2017 Top 20 Best-Selling Games

Sony 0

But it doesn't count if they're not 'exclusive'. So it's only 1 : 0

MS actually had an advantage in 2013. Sony needed to erase entirety of the PS3. Nothing you owned either digital or physical would work on PS4. They started from zero, but they could get away with it back then. It wasn't as persistent as it is today, even on Xbox One it wasn't like all 360 content worked.

At launch - exactly 0 360 content worked on X1, and MS messaging was the same as Sony - no BC.
360 BC eventually got announced / came out much later (and likely as part of their 180 after the reveal - ie. had the E3 2013 never happened, 360 BC probably wouldn't exist today either).

 

[ANoa]

nah shareholders are not the ones buying the console, consumers are. seems they are pretty happy.
you can keep voting to some polls and opening doom threads though, if it helps you cope better

Sony who once had the greatest library of all time now is known as a Fortnite and GTA Online machine. Make sure to buy some v-bucks to celebrate the console sales figures though.

 

[damidu]

Sony who once had the greatest library of all time now is known as a Fortnite and GTA Online machine. Make sure to buy some v-bucks to celebrate the console sales figures though.

what are you even blabbering about lol
man this whole xbox situation really gave some of you permanent brain damage

 

[ANoa]

what are you even blabbering about lol

English not your first language?

man this whole xbox situation really gave some of you permanent brain damage

Xbox? what? lmfao

 

[Woopah]

The fact that Mario Kart 8 is still there 7 years later is crazy


This should also end all the fake claims of this being PlayStation's worst generation.

Until Nintendo starts sharing digital they are going to take up fewer and fewer spaces in the top 20. Will be interesting to see how long MK9 can chart for.

 

[Edmund]

Don't you find it odd that the Nintendo Switch has no competition, yet everyone's fine with it.

But the ongoing narrative is if Xbox dies then PlayStation has no competition!!! Playstation bad oh noes!!

Nintendo not discounting their games ever is a sign of not having competition. How are people not seeing this? Mario Kart 8 still at full price. BOTW still at full price. They don't have competition that's why they don't need to reduce price.

And look at this crock of shit by the developer of Ori

He says it's not good if PlayStation keeps exclusives to itself and should put their games everywhere. But Nintendo? Nintendo gets a free pass and is allowed to have exclusives.




I'm still waiting for Triangle Strategy on ps5.

 

[Interfectum]

Don't you find it odd that the Nintendo Switch has no competition, yet everyone's fine with it.

But the ongoing narrative is if Xbox dies then PlayStation has no competition!!! Playstation bad oh noes!!

Nintendo not discounting their games ever is a sign of not having competition. How are people not seeing this?

And look at this crock of shit by the developer of Ori

He says it's not good if PlayStation keeps exclusives to itself and should put their games everywhere. But Nintendo? Nintendo gets a free pass and is allowed to have exclusives.

Yup I love how everyone is pushing Sony to adopt a losing strategy (Xbox) and completely ignore the market leaders in the console and PC spaces (Nintendo and Valve) for “reasons”

 

[playbignbox]

@all the usual suspect!

Hope this can slowdown the retarded threads we had past two weeks.

Think please before making threads, you will look silly otherwise

popularity ≠ quality
This is the result of a brand phenomenon, PlayStation is a very recognizable brand and sells a lot even though this is the worst generation of PlayStation. Sorry if the poll hurt your feelings but one thing does not exclude the other.

 

[onQ123]

Until Nintendo starts sharing digital they are going to take up fewer and fewer spaces in the top 20. Will be interesting to see how long MK9 can chart for.

It will probably be in the top from this year until 2032

 

[Woopah]

Don't you find it odd that the Nintendo Switch has no competition, yet everyone's fine with it.

But the ongoing narrative is if Xbox dies then PlayStation has no competition!!! Playstation bad oh noes!!

Nintendo not discounting their games ever is a sign of not having competition. How are people not seeing this? Mario Kart 8 still at full price. BOTW still at full price. They don't have competition that's why they don't need to reduce price.

And look at this crock of shit by the developer of Ori

He says it's not good if PlayStation keeps exclusives to itself and should put their games everywhere. But Nintendo? Nintendo gets a free pass and is allowed to have exclusives.




I'm still waiting for Triangle Strategy on ps5.

Nintendo does these exclusives because they have competition. They wouldn’t have paid SE/Capcom etc. to put games on Switch before PC and other consoles if they didn't see them as competition.

It will probably be in the top from this year until 2032

As long as the digital ratio doesn't go too high then that night be true.

 

[iHaunter]

The only Doom for PlayStation players in 2025....

A lot of people who have PS5 also have PCs. For MMOs and whatnot, Me included. I'll just play Doom on PC. PS5 Pro all else.

 

[Ebrietas]

Don't you find it odd that the Nintendo Switch has no competition, yet everyone's fine with it.

But the ongoing narrative is if Xbox dies then PlayStation has no competition!!! Playstation bad oh noes!!

Nintendo not discounting their games ever is a sign of not having competition. How are people not seeing this? Mario Kart 8 still at full price. BOTW still at full price. They don't have competition that's why they don't need to reduce price.

And look at this crock of shit by the developer of Ori

He says it's not good if PlayStation keeps exclusives to itself and should put their games everywhere. But Nintendo? Nintendo gets a free pass and is allowed to have exclusives.




I'm still waiting for Triangle Strategy on ps5.

PC is also allowed to have exclusives. Totally fine and not anti consumer. And by PC they really just mean Steam. They don’t want anyone else to compete despite all their bloviating about how good competition is for everyone.

 

[Klayzer]

PC is also allowed to have exclusives. Totally fine and not anti consumer. And by PC they really just mean Steam. They don’t want anyone else to compete despite all their bloviating about how good competition is for everyone.

So true.