Wildebeest
Member
It isn't the task of any customer to make a failing business model work, especially for something they can easily live without.
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Console gamers need to recalibrate their pricing expectations from here on out
- Thread starter analog_future
- Start date
blacktout
Member
I get what you're saying OP, but I think there are two big factors at play here that undercut your premise:
The first is that consumer purchasing power hasn't kept pace with inflation, so while the price of the PS5 Pro might be reflective of increased manufacturing costs, it still feels like a huge stretch to the average consumer. This isn't just a problem for Sony, it's true of all products, and especially true of luxury/entertainment products, which is why you see so much flailing around not only throughout the video game industry, but in film and television and streaming services and consumer electronics broadly. When everything costs 20% more than it did five years ago but you only have like 5% more income, it doesn't really matter whether prices are in line with inflation, you're going to buy less shit and be more highly selective about what you do buy.
The second issue is by excluding the stand and the disc drive, both of which would have been relatively cheap to include, Sony is sending consumers mixed messages about the nature of this device. If it's a premium product, why the obvious penny pinching on basic accessories? If it's an entry level package, why is it so expensive? I think that if Sony had taken the ten dollar (or whatever) per unit hit and included both while still asking $699, you would see a lot less bitching, and the "it's a premium device for high end users!" argument would land better. Instead, I think people are (rightly) intuiting that Sony is actually trying to take a step towards phasing out physical media so that their margins on software go up, which, hey, it makes sense from a business perspective, but obviously it's also going to garner some ill will.
The first is that consumer purchasing power hasn't kept pace with inflation, so while the price of the PS5 Pro might be reflective of increased manufacturing costs, it still feels like a huge stretch to the average consumer. This isn't just a problem for Sony, it's true of all products, and especially true of luxury/entertainment products, which is why you see so much flailing around not only throughout the video game industry, but in film and television and streaming services and consumer electronics broadly. When everything costs 20% more than it did five years ago but you only have like 5% more income, it doesn't really matter whether prices are in line with inflation, you're going to buy less shit and be more highly selective about what you do buy.
The second issue is by excluding the stand and the disc drive, both of which would have been relatively cheap to include, Sony is sending consumers mixed messages about the nature of this device. If it's a premium product, why the obvious penny pinching on basic accessories? If it's an entry level package, why is it so expensive? I think that if Sony had taken the ten dollar (or whatever) per unit hit and included both while still asking $699, you would see a lot less bitching, and the "it's a premium device for high end users!" argument would land better. Instead, I think people are (rightly) intuiting that Sony is actually trying to take a step towards phasing out physical media so that their margins on software go up, which, hey, it makes sense from a business perspective, but obviously it's also going to garner some ill will.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Since the comparison is any kind of hobby at any cost, then the best value in entertainment and hobbying is really just exercising jogging around the block or doing pushups in your basement for free. or put on your shoes and go on nature walks and hiking trails. All cost $0.
jonnyp
Member
I think a big problem is that TSMC doesn't have any real competition and their prices trickle down to us consumers in the end on top of inflation and everything else.
I do find it ridiculous the Pro doesn't come with a disc drive at that price though, let alone a fucking stand that costs a dollar to produce.
I do find it ridiculous the Pro doesn't come with a disc drive at that price though, let alone a fucking stand that costs a dollar to produce.
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P:axMagellanic
Member
Pretty much all of them on that list have a healthy second hand market as well. Something this industry is trying its damnedest to remove.
Kings Field
Member
Gaming is one of the best bangs for your buck when it comes to hobbies that aren’t free.
FinalBossWithTheMostPower
Member
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
And no business should feel entitled to expect consumers to fully accept their change in strategy just because one day the company does a 180 in pricing strategy...... "Well, our company wants to make some more profits this time, so can all you guys just bite the bullet and buy up a bunch? Thanks"
Companies are the ones who set expectations in product and pricing. Doing a big change bumping up price, reducing features, and then expecting consumers to rebuy those missing features for more money is not a normal way consumers accept.
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touchfuzzy
Member
Remember when the 3DS launched at too expensive, sold like crap, and they immediately had to cut the price by like 40% to save it? Companie will recalibrate prices if you speak with your wallet.
Bonfires Down
Member
Yeah, but who wants to do that boring shit. Let’s compare it to real hobbies:
- Hookers
- Blow
- Gambling
- Alcoholism
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Hey, stop that. Don't give sony any ideas.With big enough inflation ps6 could be 999usd by holidays 2028
Puscifer
Member
Because that console is a bad value and at times had 1X outperforming it lol
Little Chicken
Gold Member
Nintendo are able to pivot like that because they have huge profit margins on their hardware, which is largely made with old spare parts of typewriters and public telephones.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
It's the most logical move ever though, and lots of people predicted it. The best time to squeeze people is on the more expensive model. Then a certain amount of people will not have the money or will to get the disc drive and will switch to digital. That percentage is just going to keep going up; much, much more rapidly now and they have literally every incentive to do that. The writing was on the wall as soon as everyone saw Xbox pull that off. They're all jealous of that rapid transition and they're going to rush towards that as fast as their consumers can tolerate.
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Bombolone
Gold Member
This is where I’m at. I have owned many consoles in gaming. At that price point (CAD) it just entered PC territory. I can’t spend that much on a closed ecosystem that just plays games.
I’m a man romanced by nostalgia. Disappointed with my ps3, ps4/pro and ps5. Won’t touch the pro or ps6.
Seems like exclusives will wind up on Pc eventually.
I am (as I am sure many of you are as well) interested in seeing how the market reacts to this one.
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clarky
Gold Member
Especially if you do all 4 and game at the same time
bundylove
Gold Member
Irrelevant.
The ps5 exists and this is just and upgrade.
You and others really want to tell me that sony will lower the price of the pro to almost in line with base ps5?
The ps5 and xbox just had a price increase. It wont go down for a while so the pro also wont go down for a while.
One could argue the case of psvr2 but we all know sony gave up on that and is just clearing inventory for now.
Natsuko
Member
But things are not a console.
A smartphone? Many people use one every day. A car? Many people regularly drive it for work and do their shopping with it. Not everyone wants to carry them home on foot. Jewellery? I don't think I can hang a console around my neck. Then I'd need an appointment with a physiotherapist pretty quickly. Antiques? They're for people with a passion for collecting and the value doesn't necessarily go down.
Fishing and hunting? First of all, these are outdoor hobbies. And then there are very different price categories you can get into. At least that's the case with bow hunting. It doesn't have to be a 2000 Euro Mathews Compound with accessories. There are also recurve bows that are suitable for hunting and some for relatively little money. Oh, and you even have something to eat when you're hunting. Apart from that, you can use such a weapon for hunting for a long time. Occasionally you will probably need new arrows, arrowheads and the like. But this is quite moderate.
Sport? Is a lifestyle for many who are active in sports. I would do without consoles but definitely not without my sports membership and my sports equipment .Gaming doesn't make me fit or healthier. Travelling? How does that compare to a console? Travelling is a time-out for many people. You see the world, create lasting memories and get to know new cultures. Do you notice something?
And then there's this thing called a PC. Some people already have it at home. If consoles become too expensive, some people might consider playing games on a PC in future. Especially with Sony and Microsoft. Most of the games are also released for the PC. The subscription for online games is not necessary and there are often better sale prices. Nintendo doesn't release any games on PC. The only option is an emulator. Sony cannot raise the price at whatever they want without losing purchases.
Banjo64
cumsessed
It’s actually the console makers that need to recalibrate their expectations.
It’s pretty simple.
If they keep on allowing their own costs to balloon, focusing on graphics over gameplay and exploiting their consumers on costs: they are going to die.
Am I buying a £500+ digital PS6 for any of my kids? Absolutely not. They can game on their phones/tablets or PC.
It’s pretty simple.
If they keep on allowing their own costs to balloon, focusing on graphics over gameplay and exploiting their consumers on costs: they are going to die.
Am I buying a £500+ digital PS6 for any of my kids? Absolutely not. They can game on their phones/tablets or PC.
Bond007
Member
I agree with you.
I think the problem is how Microsoft went about their perceived solution to this problem. The S wasnt it, due to hampering the generation by trying to make the differing skus different strengths at the start of a generation.
By the Pro timeframe- you are merely trying to improve the current gen
Fess
Member
Done? From my experience playing guitar for 30+ years. No, you’re just getting started!
But if I add it all up over the same time frame I think I’ve still spent more money on gaming. It adds up over time.
jonnyp
Member
Yeah it's worked out really well for Xbox hasn't it?
RoboFu
One of the green rats
I think this is what all these " but phone a car prices!? " posters don't understand. Both of those things are needed in life and people will choose both over video games every time.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
You guys still don't get it. All the people trash talking low physical sales on Xbox like it was a bad thing. It was the envy of every other platform holder, and they're all going to push their consumers to do the same.
Natsuko
Member
As a mum, I immediately agree with you. Our consoles are almost only used by the children these days. But the kids don't really care, they take what they get. Smartphone, tablet, PC. They just want to play. You can also connect controllers to iPad and co. Streaming does the rest.
SkylineRKR
Member
Consoles used to be subsidized because the idea was to make profit on software. This is what kept them cheap. You would buy a PS4, and even PS5 DE for 399 and got decent bang for your buck compared to other hardware. But these days are simply over. And we've seen the PS5 situation, it sold well at 500, many people even paid double just to get one since the shipments were low. This persisted for quite a while. Sony then raised the price of the machine and it still sells, 4 years in. And still no discount in sight kind of tells me that they launched this system at a too low price. Every single buyer today is paying 500 bucks for a 4 year old system, think about it.
Its a given that the days of cheap hardware are over. The Pro isn't an outlier, its the first console priced accordingly thus isn't bleeding money. The PS6 isn't going to launch at a lower price than the 5 Pro. And watch it break records regardless for being the new hype.
If we take the PSVR as an example, not in terms of support but in terms of hardware, it was an expensive kit but the hardware was very good when it launched. I'd take a very good PS6 that costs me a bit more than a product thats cheaper and weaker as a result (case in point PS4). And how many consoles do you buy every year? I bought my last in November 2020, the PS5.
I probably won't make friends with this, but I think we gamers are simply cheapskates. We want the best experience, best IQ and framerate, we ask for new games every day, we play many hours a year.. and despite buying perhaps one or 2 consoles every 4-7 years we are going apeshit when a price is raised by 200-300 bucks.
Its a given that the days of cheap hardware are over. The Pro isn't an outlier, its the first console priced accordingly thus isn't bleeding money. The PS6 isn't going to launch at a lower price than the 5 Pro. And watch it break records regardless for being the new hype.
If we take the PSVR as an example, not in terms of support but in terms of hardware, it was an expensive kit but the hardware was very good when it launched. I'd take a very good PS6 that costs me a bit more than a product thats cheaper and weaker as a result (case in point PS4). And how many consoles do you buy every year? I bought my last in November 2020, the PS5.
I probably won't make friends with this, but I think we gamers are simply cheapskates. We want the best experience, best IQ and framerate, we ask for new games every day, we play many hours a year.. and despite buying perhaps one or 2 consoles every 4-7 years we are going apeshit when a price is raised by 200-300 bucks.
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aclar00
Member
You shouldnt have a problem unless 1) Sony drops production due to adjusted sales forecast or 2) Scalpers buy majority of inventory.
You're main worry may be buyer's remorse, but sounds like there will be a slim chance of that.
Trilobit
Member
Phil getting beat again with higher prices. First in Japan and now with this. He just can't win.
Man, I'm always impressed by the minimalistic design of the Series X. I'm okay with my PS5, but honestly the design is mostly weird.
asdasdasdbb
Member
The reason consoles in the past had price drops is because their costs went down. That's not the case anymore.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I'm sorry but as much as it's easy for us to purchase things like this I think you're all forgetting how it started and who bought you your first.
£700 for a GAMES console is ridiculous and will put parents under a lot of pressure if their child wants one.
Sure the Pro is for the older gamer, but I can guarantee you PS6 being equal or more is definitely on Sony's mind.
Which means they're out of their god damn mind.
It's too much for too little.
£700 for a GAMES console is ridiculous and will put parents under a lot of pressure if their child wants one.
Sure the Pro is for the older gamer, but I can guarantee you PS6 being equal or more is definitely on Sony's mind.
Which means they're out of their god damn mind.
It's too much for too little.
ToneyJ
Member
I'm getting tired of having to think about the business side of the games industry honestly. That's their problem, not mine.
I probably wouldnt even mind paying more for consoles if it weren't for the fact that games these days are so safe, dull, and take forever to come out. Things were SO much better in the 2000s.
I probably wouldnt even mind paying more for consoles if it weren't for the fact that games these days are so safe, dull, and take forever to come out. Things were SO much better in the 2000s.
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asdasdasdbb
Member
Alebrije
Member
Gaming as a hobby is cheap if You can get a second hand Console or previous generation one.
OP is right , there are other hobbies like Mountain Bike where just a decent Bike with Shimano SLX would cost more than a PRO by far, plus a good helmet ( 150-250 US) , outfit , etc..
Obviously there are other hobbies like reading..You can get very cheap second hand books.
OP is right , there are other hobbies like Mountain Bike where just a decent Bike with Shimano SLX would cost more than a PRO by far, plus a good helmet ( 150-250 US) , outfit , etc..
Obviously there are other hobbies like reading..You can get very cheap second hand books.
Kacho
Gold Member
Probably, yeah. People will start being a lot more picky going forward though.
IMO
$200-300 = impulse purchase territory. Don't even give it a second thought.
$400-500 = justifiable purchase territory. You know you want it so you'll pay.
$600-800 = lemme think on this for a minute. The hardware needs to be super compelling, or you're completely entrenched in the ecosystem.
IMO
$200-300 = impulse purchase territory. Don't even give it a second thought.
$400-500 = justifiable purchase territory. You know you want it so you'll pay.
$600-800 = lemme think on this for a minute. The hardware needs to be super compelling, or you're completely entrenched in the ecosystem.
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Obviously, if you ask any gambler or expensive hobbyists from the op list, it all comes down at the cost of lack of friendships, friends are precious, if you don't have friends then it's your problem to spend that amount on stupid things.
newtypepilot
Member
imagine defending businesses that are jacking up the price. This is like defending xbox for charging a subscription for multiplayer which became normalized in the industry.
Rockondevil
Member
The difference between paying for an equivalent spec PC is that the PC will last you longer and probably well into the PS6 generation.
Buying good shoes isn't just about good pace, it's about keeping your legs working for the rest of your life.
I spend between 180-370 (AUD) on shoes depending on which pair I need to replace.
Not sure what pace you're running, or your age, but the cost is worth it in the end.
Absolutely not. I know you said you run marathons in $50 shoes, and good for you.
Buying good shoes isn't just about good pace, it's about keeping your legs working for the rest of your life.
I spend between 180-370 (AUD) on shoes depending on which pair I need to replace.
Not sure what pace you're running, or your age, but the cost is worth it in the end.
Esppiral
Member
It is not my fault that all those users are retarded and pay whatever they're asked.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
PS4 came out 11 years ago and there's still AAA games coming out on the console today.
JackMcGunns
Member
Because Sony said so? No, you speak with your wallet. Apple gets away with it in the U.S. and now Sony is trying to become the new Apple.
aclar00
Member
OP fails to realize that enthusiasts hobbies are expensive. While gaming does have its enthusiasts, they're likely PC gamers or collectors who purchase a variety of hardware, including consoles, peripherals and memorabilia.
I use to play paintball as a hobby, but damn if i had a $1000.00 paintball gun. I had a $200 one.
I would argue that a pro console in and of itself is not a sole determining factor that says "hey, im an enthusiast" Even then, everyone looks at cost to value ratio to determine if its worth it.
Sony's problem its they try to live their glory days of being a high end consumer manufacturer, but the market dictates that and i think theyre jumping the gun a bit.