Support NeoGAF

[Gaiff]

People wouldn't care to get a PS5pro without PSSR. A.I is the technology moving foward.

They also wouldn’t care to get a Pro with just PSSR and nothing else.

Same as PS4pro. Checkerboard Rendering was the reason to upgrade your base PS4 over PS4pro.

Lol no. It was the much faster GPU. Checkerboard rendering was used in like 10 games.

You guys are leaving those details out of the conversation. In conjuction or not, PSSR is the PS5pro selling point. Even Digital Foundry concluded that.

I'm not talking about the reasons each individual have to get PS5pro, but about the PR.

Nobody’s leaving anything out. You’re simply acting obtuse. PSSR is one of the key components but not the only one. Each component individually wouldn’t justify the Pro’s existence.

Using PSSR isn’t mandatory. Who gives a shit it’s not using PSSR if the results are better and it leverages the Pro’s hardware to achieve them?

 

[Kaiserstark]

I'm still here wondering what it is that prevents them from back porting this upscaler to base PS5.
it seems to be vastly superior to their CBR method... is it using ML in some way? and if so, does that mean developers can use the ML hardware of the Pro however they want and aren't limited to PSSR?

In the leaked docs it was indicated that you could use the hardware ML of the PS5 Pro for other uses. You just need to to raise a ticket with Sony for access.

Guerrilla could been using their own bespoke NN model that they would have trained for their own games and engine which would explained why their solution lacks all of the classical artifacts that the likes of FSR, TAU or Checkboard all have.

 

[Clear]

???

The post I quoted was from someone who thought it was using PSSR. Clarifying that it isn't using PSSR is very much the point.

I'm increasingly intolerant of people talking about PSSR as if its some sort of singular entity, not a software library bundled in with the PRO's firmware. Its just playing into brand wars.

Its like making a comparison between PSGL on Playstation and OpenGL running on anything else. Same function, just different proprietary branding and maintainer.

 

[Fake]

Nobody’s leaving anything out. You’re simply acting obtuse. PSSR is one of the key components but not the only one. Each component individually wouldn’t justify the Pro’s existence.

Using PSSR isn’t mandatory. Who gives a shit it’s not using PSSR if the results are better and it leverages the Pro’s hardware to achieve them?

I'm not being obtuse. We are talking about the launch titles for the PS5pro. And Guerrila never used AI upscaling before. You can take your poison about whatever the reason Guerrila choice to not use the PSSR.

Digital Foundry said PSSR is their selling point dude and we are in a Digital Foundry thread. Please, lets not reach the pointing of deny now.

We expect their first party to put a good use of PSSR. At least we hope.

 

[Skifi28]

I'm not being obtuse. We are talking about the launch titles for the PS5pro. And Guerrila never used AI upscaling before. You can take your poison about whatever the reason Guerrila choice to not use the PSSR.

Digital Foundry said PSSR is their selling point dude and we are in a Digital Foundry thread. Please, lets not reach the pointing of deny now.

We expect their first party to put a good use of PSSR. At least we hope.

Again, the selling point for consumers is to get good results, not the specific tech used to get them. The vast majority of people can't even tell if a game is using PSSR or not unless it's being pointed out to them by DF, how's that for selling point? All they can do is judge whether the result is good or not.

 

[squidilix]

Probably for the best.
Avatar:

And this was after the fix.

The more artefact right now the PSSR has, the better it will be fixed in another iteration / version. (Update dev-kit or PS6)
This is a bit sad for now because looks like a beta test, but I think is good if dev implement the toggle off/on PSSR and using more power for PS5 Pro.

 

[Darkness_Arises]

They also wouldn’t care to get a Pro with just PSSR and nothing else.

Lol no. It was the much faster GPU. Checkerboard rendering was used in like 10 games.

Nobody’s leaving anything out. You’re simply acting obtuse. PSSR is one of the key components but not the only one. Each component individually wouldn’t justify the Pro’s existence.

Using PSSR isn’t mandatory. Who gives a shit it’s not using PSSR if the results are better and it leverages the Pro’s hardware to achieve them?

In fact, Guerilla does not even leverage the ID buffer that enables low cost CBR for PS4 pro and PS5, instead opting for their own custom implementation. By his logic PS4 pro CBR was also false advertisement as Guerilla did not use that exclusive id buffer hardware for CBR and Naughty Dog simply opted for a straight 1440p output instead of CBR.

 

[Fake]

The more artefact right now the PSSR has, the better it will be fixed in another iteration / version. (Update dev-kit or PS6)
This is a bit sad for now because looks like a beta test, but I think is good if dev implement the toggle off/on PSSR and using more power for PS5 Pro.

Yeah feels rushed sometimes. But IMO I was expecting this kinda of mix bag between third parties. PSSR would shiny with Sony first party studios.

But the toggle off/on is a double edge sword. Is good for consumers, but at the same time this is like a route that devs wouldn't give much effort to make a good use of PSSR, just let users decide if the shit we put is good or not.

In fact, Guerilla does not even leverage the ID buffer that enables low cost CBR for PS4 pro and PS5, instead opting for their own custom implementation. By his logic PS4 pro CBR was also false advertisement as Guerilla did not use that exclusive id buffer hardware for CBR and Naughty Dog simply opted for a straight 1440p output instead of CBR.

I don't recall Guerrila ignoring the custom CB hardware from PS4pro.

My only memory was Spider-Man using Temporal Injection rather than CB.

 

[Dibils2k]

why havent they done Ragnarok yet... its arguably the most interesting as it allows user to enable/disable PSSR

 

[Bojji]

why havent they done Ragnarok yet... its arguably the most interesting as it allows user to enable/disable PSSR

They did:

 

[Gaiff]

I'm not being obtuse. We are talking about the launch titles for the PS5pro. And Guerrila never used AI upscaling before. You can take your poison about whatever the reason Guerrila choice to not use the PSSR.

No one cares what they use. The result is comparable to DLSS. I can guarantee you no one will launch the game, see how clean it looks and go, "but it’s not using PSSR!"

Digital Foundry said PSSR is their selling point dude and we are in a Digital Foundry thread. Please, lets not reach the pointing of deny now.

I don’t care what DF say regarding this and neither should you. DF is made up of a bunch of tech enthusiasts, nothing more. Their data and input is valuable, but they don’t think for us.

We expect their first party to put a good use of PSSR. At least we hope.

I don’t care what they use and neither does anyone else. They could be using TAA or MSAA. What matters are the results. That’s it. Are they much better? Yes. Is this only achievable on the Pro? Yes. Anything else is immaterial.

Plus, we’ve known about it not using PSSR for months now.

 

[Fake]

No one cares what they use.

C'mon...

 

[YCoCg]

This is the difference between a good patch and a bad one, it feels like a lot of devs just tried to switch on EVERYTHING the Pro offers and call it a day having to then patch in toggles for things afterwards. PSSR can be great IF it's used correctly, but PSSR also costs, Guerrilla have been one of the devs to pass on using PSSR here and instead opt for something more finely tuned to their engine meaning they can offer visuals on par, OR BETTER, than the OG Quality mode but at a pretty much locked 60fps now.

PSSR isn't some magic bullet, devs need to work out if they should use it or not, or if they can put that power to use elsewhere instead.

 

[Gaiff]

C'mon...

Are you serious right now? No one cares. They aren’t using PSSR but something better. Why would anyone cry about this?

 

[Fake]

Are you serious right now? No one cares. They aren’t using PSSR but something better. Why would anyone cry about this?

Of course they care man. C'mon, don't that to yourself.

What other reason to watch Digital Foundry analyzes. Even I got impressed about find out this is not PSSR at all, instead Guerrila own custom AI upscaler. Not about the quality, but the strange of they are not using PSSR at all. Is quite bizarre.

 

[XXL]

Are you serious right now? No one cares. They aren’t using PSSR but something better. Why would anyone cry about this?

Agreed. The point is......the game being upgraded to the best outcome, the method they use is irrelevant.

Native, AI upscaling.....I literally don't care. I just want it to look good.

 

[Gaiff]

Of course they care man. C'mon, don't that to yourself.

Who is they? The customers?

What other reason to watch Digital Foundry analyzes. Even I got impressed about find out this is not PSSR at all, instead Guerrila own custom AI upscaler. Not about the quality, but the strange of they are not using PSSR at all. Is quite bizarre.

It's not bizarre at all. PSSR isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. It has its shortcomings. GG got something better. Why wouldn't they use it? Like what the fuck are we even arguing about here?

You've seen in this very analysis that GG's solution is comparable to DLSS, perhaps even better, but somehow, you spin this is a negative.

Agreed. The point is......the game being upgraded to the best outcome, the method they use is irrelevant.

Native, AI upscaling.....I literally don't care. I just want it to look good.

Exactly this. The discussion surrounding the Pro has turned beyond dumb. I can’t actually believe the takes I’m reading.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I would say Forbidden West looks even better than the Sony games that use PSSR well though. Still better to use this method if they can. What if the method used for Forbidden West is even more performant. Would have no reason to use PSSR.

That's because, outside of perhaps Ratchet, HFW already looks better than those games. It has nothing to do with using PSSR vs not.

 

[Fake]

Who is they? The customers?

Yes. The consumers that want a premium machine. They care about this stuff. I not talking about the mass that buy the regular PS5, but those who spend >$700 for a premium machine. They do care about this stuff. And Digital Foundry made money talking about that.

It's not bizarre at all. PSSR isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. It has its shortcomings. GG got something better. Why wouldn't they use it? Like what the fuck are we even arguing about here?

You've seen in this very analysis that GG's solution is comparable to DLSS, perhaps even better, but somehow, you spin this is a negative.

Its bizarre to me, if is not so clear to you.

My spin is indeed negative. Never tought othewise. For me this is a negative point for PSSR. If you either don't care or don't see as a negative is not the problem.

Maybe is good for third parties that want to use Guerrila engine. I don't get why you guys are make so much deal about my opinion.

Now, going into a Digital Foundry thread talking as people don't care about this stuff is silly.

 

[Gaiff]

Yes. The consumers that want a premium machine. They care about this stuff. I not talking about the mass that buy the regular PS5, but those who spend >$700 for a premium machine. They do care about this stuff. And Digital Foundry made money talking about that.

As evidenced by all the Pro owners here who care that it isn't using PSSR. Right...

Its bizarre to me, if is not so clear to you.

My spin is indeed negative. Never tought othewise. For me this is a negative point for PSSR. If you either don't care or don't see as a negative is not the problem.

Maybe is good for third parties that want to use Guerrila engine. I don't get why you guys are make so much deal about my opinion.

Now, going into a Digital Foundry thread talking as people don't care about this stuff is silly.

No one cares that it isn't using PSSR. Literally no one. People are happy that it has a fantastic IQ comparable to DLSS. That's what they paid for.

 

[bundylove]

People wouldn't care to get a PS5pro without PSSR. A.I is the technology moving foward.

Same as PS4pro. Checkerboard Rendering was the reason to upgrade your base PS4 over PS4pro.

You guys are leaving those details out of the conversation. In conjuction or not, PSSR is the PS5pro selling point. Even Digital Foundry concluded that.

I'm not talking about the reasons each individual have to get PS5pro, but about the PR.

Well the we are missing the selling point feature lol.

Thats 1 out of 3 main pro features btw.

 

[Darkness_Arises]

Yeah feels rushed sometimes. But IMO I was expecting this kinda of mix bag between third parties. PSSR would shiny with Sony first party studios.

But the toggle off/on is a double edge sword. Is good for consumers, but at the same time this is like a route that devs wouldn't give much effort to make a good use of PSSR, just let users decide if the shit we put is good or not.



I don't recall Guerrila ignoring the custom CB hardware from PS4pro.

My only memory was Spider-Man using Temporal Injection rather than CB.

Guerilla's CBR implementation on the PS4 pro does not use the ID Buffer, they use it for other stuff in the engine. They like doing things unconventionally and it seems to have paid off in this case.

 

[Fbh]

Looks great on pro but to be honest it still looks great on the base system (specially when not zoomed in).
Forbidden West is still by far the most technically impressive game this gen IMO. Even on base PS5 it delivers great visuals with solid image quality at 60fps like no other game (at least on this scale)

 

[Three]

I'm convinced that Decima is a custom engine based entirely on UE. It likely uses some form of TSR like Fortnite on the pro to good effect.

 

[Radical_3d]

I’ve watched the video. God, what a beauty. I wish I like these kind of games. I also don’t like Death Stranding so I’m completely loosing on Décima ;(

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Poor Bugaga It must be painful for him to have to talk so positively about the PS5 pro.

 

[blastprocessor]

Death Stranding 2 is going to look incredible on Pro.

 

[Dibils2k]

They did:

no i am talking standalone video with proper side by sides

 

[PicoLordens]

I love how everyone on GAF is selling their personal opinion/feeling as objective truth/fact.

 

[RoboFu]

Not sure if it's DLSS or something else, but I thought the lack of detail here on PC was rather interesting.

so purposely gimping PC LOD detail?

 

[proandrad]

I love how everyone on GAF is selling their personal opinion/feeling as objective truth/fact.

 

[sachos]

WOW, it looks so clean in motion! The fact they get comparable results to the latest DLSS seemingly without an AI component, really impressive stuff. Hope they can share that secret source with other Sony studios and the PSSR team, maybe they could incorporate some of those findings back into PSSR in some way.