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Digital Foundry: Forza Motorsport on Xbox Series X/S: The Digital Foundry Tech Review
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Saved, will watch later
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Summary:
Visuals:
- "Definitely one of the better looking racing games in recent memory"
- Compared to FM7 in Maple Valley shows 'enormous improvement' especially in foliage.
- Lighting in general gets a big boost. RT AO helps with this a lot w/ higher quality GI as well
- Transitioned from heavily pre-calculated to real time lighting with real time shadows.
- Shadow update on lower frame rate however, they update at 15 fps
- Clouds are real time and volumetric and big update over cruder FM7 but feel disconnected from player movement.
- Tracks were re-scanned and trackside things also see environment.
- Crowds are entirely 3D (and less dense than the older 2D counterparts because of that)
- Console version(s) have low Anisotropic filtering, which is the only real big disappointment.
- Car rendering is enhanced, but car geometry for legacy cars seems very similar with some enhancements like wheels and self-shadowing on dash.
- Non player cars use lower LoD models even in photo mode
- Car materials see improvement, which reflects sky better, textures also replaced, simulated car paint also looks more "correct" than before. RTAO likely helps with this.
- Reflections use combination of cube maps, SSR, planer and RT.
- Cube maps used for tracks, SSR on wet tracks, planer for mirrors and RT on car bodies
- RT also used in some limited track side objects in Quality mode.
- Cut-scenes use higher quality RT reflections, as do the garage segments.
- Real time cube-maps update at 30 FPS and details can be duplicated on all cars
- Reveal trailer showed higher quality RT that isn't seen in all aspects of the final game
Modes:
- Performance, Performance RT, Visuals.
- Performance RT mode is DF's preferred way.
- General visuals broadly similar outside of RT. Performance does not have any RT
- RTAO makes a big impact on visuals and is included in both RT modes
- Visuals mode adds track-side RT on some track side areas over Performance RT.
- Cube map distance is also pushed further out in Visuals mode.
Resolution:
- Performance mode: Typically 2160p.
- Performance RT: Typically 1518p.
- Visuals: Typically 2160p
- All modes use DRS to lock frame rate
- FM7 looked sharper because of 4XMSAA but Motorsport image is more stable because of TAA
- Series S:
- 2 modes. Performance and Visuals. Neither has RT. Resembles the Performance mode on SX
- Performance mode has lower foliage density and cube maps draw closer
- Performance: 1080p, Visuals: 1440p.
- Performance looks soft.
Performance:
- DF were not able to see a single dip in any of the modes even in stress conditions
- 30 FPS mode locks at 30, 60 FPS modes lock at 60 100% of the time
- Replays, menus, garage mode run at 30 FPS and don't drop a single frame there either.
- Conclusion:
- DF recommends Performance RT on SX and Performance on SS
- DF encountered some glitches in their testing and a few crashes
- The final game has fixed some of the problems seen in the preview videos
Visuals:
- "Definitely one of the better looking racing games in recent memory"
- Compared to FM7 in Maple Valley shows 'enormous improvement' especially in foliage.
- Lighting in general gets a big boost. RT AO helps with this a lot w/ higher quality GI as well
- Transitioned from heavily pre-calculated to real time lighting with real time shadows.
- Shadow update on lower frame rate however, they update at 15 fps
- Clouds are real time and volumetric and big update over cruder FM7 but feel disconnected from player movement.
- Tracks were re-scanned and trackside things also see environment.
- Crowds are entirely 3D (and less dense than the older 2D counterparts because of that)
- Console version(s) have low Anisotropic filtering, which is the only real big disappointment.
- Car rendering is enhanced, but car geometry for legacy cars seems very similar with some enhancements like wheels and self-shadowing on dash.
- Non player cars use lower LoD models even in photo mode
- Car materials see improvement, which reflects sky better, textures also replaced, simulated car paint also looks more "correct" than before. RTAO likely helps with this.
- Reflections use combination of cube maps, SSR, planer and RT.
- Cube maps used for tracks, SSR on wet tracks, planer for mirrors and RT on car bodies
- RT also used in some limited track side objects in Quality mode.
- Cut-scenes use higher quality RT reflections, as do the garage segments.
- Real time cube-maps update at 30 FPS and details can be duplicated on all cars
- Reveal trailer showed higher quality RT that isn't seen in all aspects of the final game
Modes:
- Performance, Performance RT, Visuals.
- Performance RT mode is DF's preferred way.
- General visuals broadly similar outside of RT. Performance does not have any RT
- RTAO makes a big impact on visuals and is included in both RT modes
- Visuals mode adds track-side RT on some track side areas over Performance RT.
- Cube map distance is also pushed further out in Visuals mode.
Resolution:
- Performance mode: Typically 2160p.
- Performance RT: Typically 1518p.
- Visuals: Typically 2160p
- All modes use DRS to lock frame rate
- FM7 looked sharper because of 4XMSAA but Motorsport image is more stable because of TAA
- Series S:
- 2 modes. Performance and Visuals. Neither has RT. Resembles the Performance mode on SX
- Performance mode has lower foliage density and cube maps draw closer
- Performance: 1080p, Visuals: 1440p.
- Performance looks soft.
Performance:
- DF were not able to see a single dip in any of the modes even in stress conditions
- 30 FPS mode locks at 30, 60 FPS modes lock at 60 100% of the time
- Replays, menus, garage mode run at 30 FPS and don't drop a single frame there either.
- Conclusion:
- DF recommends Performance RT on SX and Performance on SS
- DF encountered some glitches in their testing and a few crashes
- The final game has fixed some of the problems seen in the preview videos
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Insane Metal
Member
AF is low res in consoles
Cars have proper self shadowing
Poly count seems to be around the same as FM7
Non player cars use lower LOD models
Haven't seen him say but grass and asphalt look really low res too
Edit: the fences, ouch. TAA/DRS really hurt the image quality
Performance is perfect, as usual for a Forza game. Well done, specially with RT and rain on!
Cars have proper self shadowing
Poly count seems to be around the same as FM7
Non player cars use lower LOD models
Haven't seen him say but grass and asphalt look really low res too
Edit: the fences, ouch. TAA/DRS really hurt the image quality
Performance is perfect, as usual for a Forza game. Well done, specially with RT and rain on!
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Sounds like a fantastic console release by all accounts! Well done, Turn 10.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Locked 60 fps....you love to see it!
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This 60 FPS is locked tighter than a nun's derriere.
RTAO in car interiors vs non-RTAO is a day and night difference. The visual appearance is much more realistic and favors or highlights the work on shaders and materials of those car interiors.
I think it's a great job on the console except for the questionable AF.
Regarding FM7, generational improvement in the detail of circuits and lighting. Day and night cycle and weather in all circuits. Tons of light sources at night and all with dynamic shadows. Volumetric lighting and recreation of spectacular rain races. All at perfect performance and with RT reflections and RTAO.
We will see how it evolves in content and refinement with the continuous updates. Hopefully they focus on non-real circuits like Dubai, Kaido, Montserrat.... In these there will always be more artistic freedom.
I think it's a great job on the console except for the questionable AF.
Regarding FM7, generational improvement in the detail of circuits and lighting. Day and night cycle and weather in all circuits. Tons of light sources at night and all with dynamic shadows. Volumetric lighting and recreation of spectacular rain races. All at perfect performance and with RT reflections and RTAO.
We will see how it evolves in content and refinement with the continuous updates. Hopefully they focus on non-real circuits like Dubai, Kaido, Montserrat.... In these there will always be more artistic freedom.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
They definitely should, missed opportunity not having one at launch.
But clearly there's enough headroom if its 2160p and 100% locked 60 FPS in the Performance mode.
Elysium44
Banned
Re the crowd density, it is a big step back from FM7 here:
The old crowds looked bad only IF you paused the game and took the time to zoom in - but during gameplay you never noticed so it didn't matter. They looked good enough and you could tell the stadiums were full. Why do the crowds need to be proper 3D really? Also the road textures look worse too.
The old crowds looked bad only IF you paused the game and took the time to zoom in - but during gameplay you never noticed so it didn't matter. They looked good enough and you could tell the stadiums were full. Why do the crowds need to be proper 3D really? Also the road textures look worse too.
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Stare-Bear
Banned
Personally, I would've used the resources now wasted on 3d crowds and RT reflections on better shadows and texture filtering...
Tripolygon
Banned
Just so it is clear.
1. RT reflection is only limited to lower half of the car reflecting other cars in close proximity and self-reflection in performance RT mode.
2. In visuals mode specific track side mirror surfaces like some glass reflect using RT. Most surfaces use cube map
3. Majority of the reflections in the game are still cube map, screen space, planar reflections.
4. RTAO is used in both RT Modes.
Impressive compared to FM7 but that's the compromise they have to make to get RT running in game on XSX. PC is where the game will really shine.
1. RT reflection is only limited to lower half of the car reflecting other cars in close proximity and self-reflection in performance RT mode.
2. In visuals mode specific track side mirror surfaces like some glass reflect using RT. Most surfaces use cube map
3. Majority of the reflections in the game are still cube map, screen space, planar reflections.
4. RTAO is used in both RT Modes.
Impressive compared to FM7 but that's the compromise they have to make to get RT running in game on XSX. PC is where the game will really shine.
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Re the crowd density, it is a big step back from FM7 here:
The old crowds looked bad only IF you paused the game and took the time to zoom in - but during gameplay you never noticed so it didn't matter. They looked good enough and you could tell the stadiums were full. Why do the crowds need to be proper 3D really? Also the road textures look worse too.
The crowd looks like cut-outs even in the paused footage,they may give the game a sense of a crowd but it looks weird.
I don't know the context of Oliver's statement in DF video, but you can see many videos where the circuit is full of spectators in the stands.
The number of spectators depends on the racing situations. In classification there are fewer, in minor events and in time trial as well. In races there are more spectators.
Cleary there Is a confusion there.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
That's not how it works. You can't just reallocate ray tracing to texture filtering.
Elysium44
Banned
They said FM8 makes compromises over FM7, crowd is better quality in return for being less dense. Did they make a mistake?
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Elysium44
Banned
Not directly, but if the GPU is flat out doing ray tracing then turning RT off allows it headroom to do other things better, no? If that wasn't the case then all games could just run full RT all the time.
Chukhopops
Member
Looks like RT Perf mode is the way to go on console. I wanna see the PC benchmark and how my 4070 runs it, especially compared to FH5 in Ultra settings.
Really impressive difference with FM7.
Really impressive difference with FM7.
What I believe is that his words have been misinterpreted or he has not been very successful in explaining himself.
I don't know if the number of spectators was reduced, what I know is that you have the videos you want to verify that in races you have circuits full of spectators in the stands and in the surrounding area (in the latter even more than in FM7).
People are judging as if the stands on the circuits were empty based on that scene from the DF analysis when that is not even remotely the case.
The fact is that the number of spectators in stands depends on the racing situations and the mode of game or event. Cleary he Is not playing a proper race event.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
RE: Crowd density, I guess different track have different levels, even though in total they're less than the 2D crowds from FM7.
Like this one for example, seems busier. You probably will need to pause and use photo mode to fully check it though.
Like this one for example, seems busier. You probably will need to pause and use photo mode to fully check it though.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Loved everything but really disappointed by yet another developer lying or misleading people in initial trailers. I get the downgrades are part of the industry but at least get full ray traced reflections on PC. I am willing to let RTGI not being ready slide. it is what it is. delays happen. But just give PC users full RT reflections. You had it working in the trailers. Then just fucking do it.
Or dont promise it at all.
Really wanted to come here and post a glowing review but that part about the RT reflections not reflecting the environments even on PC just killed it for me.
Or dont promise it at all.
Really wanted to come here and post a glowing review but that part about the RT reflections not reflecting the environments even on PC just killed it for me.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
On pc the crowd where full and had lots of animations and stuff going on. I think you need to be in a race or event to see the full crowds. Maybe he took them in freeplay or something.
One of my capture i took early today
The crowd is definitely more denser and animating in the Xbox version in a track race as well.
See:
Video for the above which shows it:
Insane Metal
Member
Isn't the crowd 3D on GT7? I'm being honest, if they're 2D I never noticed
Dibils2k
Member
the quality mode seems so half assed... surely they could have turned up some more settings... especially the AF
and i really hope the 3D crowd doesnt chew up much resources... cause it would be such a waste, outisde of sceeenshotting fanboy did anyone care that they were 2d...
and i really hope the 3D crowd doesnt chew up much resources... cause it would be such a waste, outisde of sceeenshotting fanboy did anyone care that they were 2d...
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Honestly, I have no idea. I'll edit that. I just guesstimated based on the pics.
Last edited:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The shadows don't have RT. RT is for reflections and AO.
Performance RT definitely feels like the best mode cause more than the reflections, the AO does a better job grounding things, especially in the cockpit view.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Fsr is awful in motion. You will never see good results for fsr in racing games.
Rt seems to be really heavy on the cpu which is why you are seeing such a drastic cut in resolution. The gpu can probably handle rt reflections and ao at 1800p but the console cpus are a bottleneck and probably why gt7 didn’t bother adding it during gameplay despite running the game at native 4k 100 fps.
Balducci30
Member
For all the technology. Doesn’t look that impressive to me
Comandr
Member
Re the crowd density, it is a big step back from FM7 here:
The old crowds looked bad only IF you paused the game and took the time to zoom in - but during gameplay you never noticed so it didn't matter. They looked good enough and you could tell the stadiums were full. Why do the crowds need to be proper 3D really? Also the road textures look worse too.
This! I felt like I was the only one that thought FM7 looked better? Textures looked better, crowds were more dense - why do they need to be modeled if you're flying by them? Who cares? Almost everything outside of the actual player vehicle and the fuckin trees looks like a massive step down, and even then certain shots of the cars look exceptionally flat in certain lighting conditions. It's almost impossible to believe that this new game came out 6 years later on a next gen console.
Neo_game
Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Sorry let me fix that real quick. Shadows are standard def only.
Crowds in GT7 are fully 3D and have numerous animations. ie celebrations, walking through the stands/paddock, photographers taking photographs, marshals waving flags and so on. The pit and paddock also has vehicle traffic and a few other animated bits and pieces.
FM certainly has excellent trees and some great foliage. But I'm surprised at the general low quality and density of trackside objects, stands, buildings, crowds etc. This is an area GT7 definitely has a notable advantage, particularly on the tracks (re)made for GT7, ie Tsukuba, Watkins Glen, Road Atlanta.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
This looks much better. How could IGN missed the fuckery that was going on with the color grading? Didn't they pause to wonder WTF that grey haze was?On pc the crowd where full and had lots of animations and stuff going on. I think you need to be in a race or event to see the full crowds. Maybe he took them in freeplay or something.
One of my capture i took early today
DryvBy
Gold Member
At this rate, I'd be worried if I primaried on Xbox. 2027 is coming quickly and eith Phil drunk at the wheel, I don't see a pretty ending to the brand.
Forza has always been better looking and playing imo than GT since the original. This just doesn't look near as good as the previews.
Forza has always been better looking and playing imo than GT since the original. This just doesn't look near as good as the previews.
LostDonkey
Member
Best looking SIM racer on the market?
digoutyoursoul
Member
Bad breath fumes staining the monitor
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The RT goes a long way to help with that.
IGN probably got the bug mentioned in this video, if you change video modes then don't restart the game, everything gets very washed out.
LostDonkey
Member
Are the crowds not event dependent?
Like, Practice, just a few people, qualifying, more people, race time full crowd?
I'm finding those pictures of the crowd hard to believe that's during an actual race.
Like, Practice, just a few people, qualifying, more people, race time full crowd?
I'm finding those pictures of the crowd hard to believe that's during an actual race.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I love the lighting here. This game has such a CG feel to it. Look at the motion blur and reflection on the black car as you drive past it.
digoutyoursoul
Member
I love the lighting here. This game has such a CG feel to it. Look at the motion blur and reflection on the black car as you drive past it.
Ohh that’s nice I gotta say
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
No, but it certainly looks good enough for what it is going for.
LostDonkey
Member
What would you say is better?