Support NeoGAF

[Kangx]

i dont know how you can call SH2 so static when it literally has volumetric foliage better than anything else out there. only returnal and callisto's volumetric fog comes close but this game is built entirely around it and uses it far more than either of those games.

Star Wars Outlaws has fantastic wind physics that affect foliage and objects in the environment. there is nothing static about these two games. especially when both games use dynamic gi and reflections which are literally designed to react to things happening in the levels.

I wish there was more destruction in games, but lets not bring up the two games that actually do some things that make them look less static.

On SH2. We just have to disagree on this one.

As for outlaws, I'll give you this one. It seems I was too nitpick and include all aspects into consideration and not all game have these kinda interaction.

I guess the video i watch compare many things like interact with ai, environment interaction like water and fire and some physics, and it fall into a different category. Yea, I think we should stop it here.

 

[Unknown?]

BUT THE PS5 HASN'T EVEN HIT ITS LIMIT YET

It hasn't, UE5 is trash and Decima will nuke it.

 

[Kangx]

If anyone want to see the pc version.

It looks beautiful though if you have the hardware to run it.

I think UE5 kinda build for the PS6. The pro will be an OK stop gap, but if you want full features that can run UE5 to a full extend then you need something like GTX4080 which I think the PS6 will be around the same ball park in 4 years.

In 4 years, where do guys think the GTX4080 rank on the hierarchy of video cards? You think it reasonable upgrade from the pro to this?

 

[SlimySnake]

I think UE5 kinda build for the PS6. The pro will be an OK stop gap, but if you want full features that can run UE5 to a full extend then you need something like GTX4080 which I think the PS6 will be around the same ball park in 4 years.

In 4 years, where do guys think the GTX4080 rank on the hierarchy of video cards? You think it reasonable upgrade from the pro to this?

?? the very first ue5 demo was running on the ps5. its built for ps5. the first demo was running at 1440p 30 fps. so is this game and most other ue5 games like robocop, black myth and remnant 2.

the latest ue5 megalights shown here is also running on the ps5. its supposed to improve performance even more.

when we came over from the ps3 gen to ps4, we were ok with a 2x boost to resolution and happy with 30 fps games like infamous, kzsf, bloodborne, order, driveclub, uncharted etc. now we are getting a 2x boost to resolution plus reconstruction that allows them to look as good as 4k so technically 4x better image quality, but we are upset because we arent getting 2x boost to resolution AND 2x boost to framerate?

what exactly is going on here? did you guys miss the 10 tflops specs? this console was never going to be able to do next gen graphics at 60 fps and high resolutions.

 

[adamsapple]

what exactly is going on here? did you guys miss the 10 tflops specs?

The prolonged cross-gen release window, which had a directly proportional impact on the number of high performance games, has made people complacent.

 

[BackBackPunch]

Don’t want to interrupt the conversation too much but just want to say that Silent Hill 2 has the best graphics I’ve seen on PS5. Carry on.

I must be taking crazy pills, because it’s one of the least visually impressive games I’ve seen in a very long time. The art direction, environments, characters… nothing about it stands out to me. Maybe it’s because I don’t have any nostalgia for the original game clouding my opinion, or maybe everyone is just huffing paint.

 

[Kangx]

?? the very first ue5 demo was running on the ps5. its built for ps5. the first demo was running at 1440p 30 fps. so is this game and most other ue5 games like robocop, black myth and remnant 2.

the latest ue5 megalights shown here is also running on the ps5. its supposed to improve performance even more.

when we came over from the ps3 gen to ps4, we were ok with a 2x boost to resolution and happy with 30 fps games like infamous, kzsf, bloodborne, order, driveclub, uncharted etc. now we are getting a 2x boost to resolution plus reconstruction that allows them to look as good as 4k so technically 4x better image quality, but we are upset because we arent getting 2x boost to resolution AND 2x boost to framerate?

what exactly is going on here? did you guys miss the 10 tflops specs? this console was never going to be able to do next gen graphics at 60 fps and high resolutions.

? I am strictly take 60fps into consideration here. Even at 30fps, the ps5 still struggle on some games with RT. The new dragon age will run at 1080p 30fps with RTAO and reflections, and these RT will be at the lowest setting.

To run something like SH2 at 60 fps that comparable to the video above, i don't think pro can do it interm of reflections. Image quality at 60fps maybe, but not the whole package.

Edit: wait....after reading ur respond again. Maybe we talking different things here. I am not sure we are on the same topic.

 

[Shin-Ra]

I think people need to be regularly reminded what a properly optimised (60fps) made-for-PS5 game can look like:



With much, much (much) greater draw distances than Silent Hill.

 

[Kangx]

I think people need to be regularly reminded what a properly optimised (60fps) made-for-PS5 game can look like:



With much, much (much) greater draw distances than Silent Hill.

Yea, I still think it is the best looking game on consoles. Of course 60 fps also a factor.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

outdoor detail is hard to parse when the game's outdoor areas are literally covered in fog. the assets are undoubtedly better, indoor or outdoors. its nanite vs ps4 era textures. tlou2 was probably the best looking game of the ps4 era but now the tech has left them behind. thats why those tlou part 1 gifs i posted look so dated. poor textures, poor materials, poor indoor lighting, mediocre outdoor lighting.

TLOU2's strengths are rendering foliage and outdoor areas where it looked amazing. but that came at a cost, mostly to its interiors which didnt get proper lighting passes. something silent hill 2 doesnt have to worry about because of its lighting solutions. it also has way higher quality materials which reflect light much better than TLOU2's materials which kind of failed.

Yes, TLou2 has better cinematics, industry leading facial animations, and fantastic character models, but during gameplay, a lot of times it falls apart especially considering how half of the game is set indoors. beautiful looking game outdoors though. especially in the 4k remaster which allowed the 4k textures to shine.

that said, all these shots below are taken from fidelity mode and you can see some sacrifices were made. What sucks is that the same level in the outdoor areas look phenomenal. Clearly, their tech wasnt strong enough to push the same fidelity in both outdoor and indoor areas of the same level and while it was ok for a PS4 game, this same tech was used in the PS5 only TLOU remake and just doesnt hold up well this gen.

Well those limitations, if they exist, are because it has more open world areas that interact with interiors, which SH2 doesn't really have. It's more confined. And of course - TLOU2 is a "last gen game" so, it didn't have the SSD benefits, which is probably why TLOU has inconsistency in interiors. Just look at the pics below that look quite good, mixture of indoor and outdoor.

TLOU Part 2:

TLOU Part 1 Remake:

VS. Silent Hill 2

SH2's biggest strength is the lighting and fog which look fantastic, but the overall density of detail doesn't stand out to me.

 

[Gamerguy84]

Well those limitations, if they exist, are because it has more open world areas that interact with interiors, which SH2 doesn't really have. It's more confined. And of course - TLOU2 is a "last gen game" so, it didn't have the SSD benefits, which is probably why TLOU has inconsistency in interiors. Just look at the pics below that look quite good, mixture of indoor and outdoor.

TLOU Part 2:

TLOU Part 1 Remake:

VS. Silent Hill 2

SH2's biggest strength is the lighting and fog which look fantastic, but the overall density of detail doesn't stand out to me.

That comparison really gives this clarity. sh2 looks like shit on PS5.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If anyone want to see the pc version.

It looks beautiful though if you have the hardware to run it.

I think UE5 kinda build for the PS6. The pro will be an OK stop gap, but if you want full features that can run UE5 to a full extend then you need something like GTX4080 which I think the PS6 will be around the same ball park in 4 years.

In 4 years, where do guys think the GTX4080 rank on the hierarchy of video cards? You think it reasonable upgrade from the pro to this?

This video doesn't look much different than the base PS5, which you can see in the Digital Foundry episode. Not sure where you're getting the "UE5 should be PS6 only" or that PS6 is going to be around a 4080

 

[Kangx]

This video doesn't look much different than the base PS5, which you can see in the Digital Foundry episode. Not sure where you're getting the "UE5 should be PS6 only" or that PS6 is going to be around a 4080

I am sorry, look at the reflections. It is much higher and lumen appears to be much higher also. The image quality is much better beside the resolution.

What device are you watching on?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I am sorry, look at the reflections. It is much higher and lumen appears to be much higher also. The image quality is much better beside the resolution.

What device are you watching on?

A 4K monitor.

It looks better, but not a massive difference to the point where I think it's a standout display of UE5 tech. The nanite is quite disappointing, but it's still a good looking game.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Demon’s Souls, launch game with highly detailed tessellated environments, gorgeous volumetric lighting and particles, 1440p nearly perfect 60fps.

But please be excited for year 5 or 6 Unreal Engine 5.5 games when developers will maybe balance rendering features properly with performance and image quality like the launch game.

Bullshit.

 

[Kangx]

A 4K monitor.

It looks better, but not a massive difference.

Resolution image clarify wise, it is not massive, but it is still big. the reflection is massive, no fizzle anywhere and not pixelated. The are much more lignt indoor due to higher lumen setting.

Here, the ps5 version.


If you on the computer, then watch them side by side. It easier for you. I watch the videos one after another on a 77 in oled tv.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Resolution image clarify wise, it is not massive, but it is still big. the reflection is massive, no fizzle anywhere and not pixelated. The are much more lignt indoor due to higher lumen setting.

Here, the ps5 version.


If you on the computer, then watch them side by side. It easier for you. I watch the videos one after another on a 77 in oled tv.

Yeah but reflections are only a small component of the overall image and aren't used in every area, so while it looks better it's not that significant to the overall look of the game. Which is the case for most RT solutions. I find them to be a bit overrated in general given the typical performance hit unless they are done intelligently (like SM2). They just don't make that big of a difference most of the time if the rest of the game is using good reflection techniques that aren't RT.

 

[Vick]

Although I have yet to play it I'm sure Silent Hill 2 with high Lumen settings and especially PC version is the better looking or at least most advanced game.
I can't really agree about that was said regarding TLOU games indoor's lighting however. Not only because of how they simply look, and I've never focused on interiors so I'll just have to go with what I already have in the folder (mix of PS4 Pro for Part II and PS5 Performance for Part I) so far, far better interior shots of these could be posted and probably an infinite number of them:

But also because indoor environments in these games allow for things like these to happen:







And because the capsule AO posted as example below makes sure every inch of those indoor feel "interactive" from a lighting point of view:



We can praise the real-time lighting advancements without having to shit on rasterized achievements.

 

[shamoomoo]

I am sorry, look at the reflections. It is much higher and lumen appears to be much higher also. The image quality is much better beside the resolution.

What device are you watching on?

Wrong? The PlayStation version is super because it represents a distorted reality of Silent Hill,the PC version doesn't simulate alter the mind of James Sunderland.


Jk.

 

[Shin-Ra]

It's always mind-boggling when developers make a game that has 99% static lighting conditions, and then throw expensive raytraced GI into it for absolutely zero reason.
Jedi Survivor did the same shit.

all you get by using Lumen GI in a game like SH2 is constant shimmering and bad performance.

BAKE YOUR FUCKING GI ASSHOOOOOLE!!!

Then there’s the mirror reflection puddles that Silent Hill 2 desperately needed and as we know, the only way to do mirror reflections is RT or SSR.

 

[March Climber]

I think UE5 kinda build for the PS6. The pro will be an OK stop gap

I secretly agree with you but I don’t want to step into the octagon to defend you. I personally think UE5 will reach the potential it was meant to reach with the Playstation 6.

It’s one of the reasons why I’m not in that big of a rush to play modern AAA (plus the added benefit of previous-gen deep discounts)

 

[Vick]

I secretly agree with you but I don’t want to step into the octagon to defend you. I personally think UE5 will reach the potential it was meant to reach with the Playstation 6.

I really don't see how this could be controversial.

We can get pretty substantial previews of what's to come, and already have thanks to stuff like Matrix, Rogue City or Silent Hill 2, especially at 30fps, but there's no question UE5 full potential will only happen next-gen. Full potential meaning of all its features enabled at good resolutions and 60fps.

It’s one of the reasons why I’m not in that big of a rush to play modern AAA (plus the added benefit of previous-gen deep discounts)

Same. All I really want and ask from this Gen is achieving that 60fps standard and let this "modern" influence to run its course. All the good stuff we get in the meantime is bonus, and there's plenty already.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

The more ue5 games I see the more I think the engine isn't it.

The engine does great things that benefit developers and artists tremendously. It’s quite a leap over UE4.

However a lot of today’s hardware just isn’t cut out for it.

 

[Kangx]

Yeah but reflections are only a small component of the overall image and aren't used in every area, so while it looks better it's not that significant to the overall look of the game. Which is the case for most RT solutions. I find them to be a bit overrated in general given the typical performance hit unless they are done intelligently (like SM2). They just don't make that big of a difference most of the time if the rest of the game is using good reflection techniques that aren't RT.

Yea. But the issue here is the performance mode is extremely bad at them. To the point of creating artifacts.

Watch the video. It's between performance and fidelity. Despite all the short comings from the performance mode, I still play that mode if given a choice because of motion clarity and I can't stand the choppyness of 30fps.

Also, it seems the devs is doing a good job here despite there is a substantial difference in internal res. I barely notice any difference between them on a large tv in term of clarity. The lighting and the reflections are more noticeable.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yea. But the issue here is the performance mode is extremely bad at them. To the point of creating artifacts.

Watch the video. It's between performance and fidelity. Despite all the short comings from the performance mode, I still play that mode if given a choice because of motion clarity and I can't stand the choppyness of 30fps.

Also, it seems the devs is doing a good job here despite there is a substantial difference in internal res. I barely notice any difference between them on a large tv in term of clarity. The lighting and the reflections are more noticeable.

Shouldn’t they have just not enabled RT for performance mode and used a different technique?

While it looks worse, it’s not that distracting

 

[Kangx]

Shouldn’t they have just not enabled RT for performance mode and used a different technique?

While it looks worse, it’s not that distracting

I don't think there any hardware RT there. They already dialed down the lumen which is software RT GI and reflection. So, it is a global solution overall. I don't think they can replace or develop a different technique to replace lumen reflection for obvious reasons.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

I don't trust that Alex guy. He exaggerates most of the time. According to him Dead Space Remake or Black Myth Wukong with RT are stuttering mess, but I have played these games and still had a joyful experience. I also can't understand why he's so obsessed with locked 60fps, because in 2024 pretty much everyone is playing on VRR displays.

 

[The artful mincer]

Jesus.... Graphics standards and expectations have really gone up this generation haven't they.

Weren't that long ago most games were 1080p and 30fps and most could still be impressed.

Anyway carry on.

 

[Big Baller]

We had to deal with 30fps long enough on console. There is no excuse anymore.

 

[acm2000]

The graphics are no Alan wake 2 but for a remake based on a 23 year old game and thus old art style, Bloober did a decent job and they seem to be getting the hang of UE5, i do wish they had started by remaking the first game tho.

Edit: I'm one of the minority who has way fonder memories of the first game over the 2nd one, it was a revolutionary change in horror being full 3d "open world" that just blew my mind back in the day especially next to old tanky resident evil.

 

[Gaiff]

I don't trust that Alex guy. He exaggerates most of the time. According to him Dead Space Remake or Black Myth Wukong with RT are stuttering mess, but I have played these games and still had a joyful experience. I also can't understand why he's so obsessed with locked 60fps, because in 2024 pretty much everyone is playing on VRR displays.

From what I recall, he says they’re mildly intrusive in Wukong and mostly restricted to traversal stutters in Dead Space. He doesn’t call then stuttering messes or imply that they are. That’s Jedi Survivor and he was right about that one.

 

[Stu_Hart]

Looks like the performance mode is between the high 30s to 60 fps. Since the ps5 pro is 1 month away, people who have not bough the ps5 may want to hold out a little more. I will play on the pc.

 

[Gaiff]

I must be taking crazy pills, because it’s one of the least visually impressive games I’ve seen in a very long time. The art direction, environments, characters… nothing about it stands out to me. Maybe it’s because I don’t have any nostalgia for the original game clouding my opinion, or maybe everyone is just huffing paint.

That comparison really gives this clarity. sh2 looks like shit on PS5.

I knew legalizing weed was a mistake.

 

[llien]

what exactly is going on here?

NV "unfriendly" (doesn't use "hardwahr reytreysing", but boasts reflection and light effects) technology gets bashed by DF.

 

[Bojji]

Demon’s Souls, launch game with highly detailed tessellated environments, gorgeous volumetric lighting and particles, 1440p nearly perfect 60fps.

But please be excited for year 5 or 6 Unreal Engine 5.5 games when developers will maybe balance rendering features properly with performance and image quality like the launch game.

Bullshit.

I agree that DS is still (after 4 years!) in top 5 best looking games IMO.

But this game is pretty much 1:1 gameplay match to 2009 game from PS3, most of remakes expand gameplay area and modernize it. All level lighting in DS is baked and looks very good overall but devs had easier time baking it in game with small gameplay area.

TLoU1/2 is similar to that, environments are much bigger and ND had to spend a lot of time baking lights everywhere.

Good looking linear games can be done without real time GI but it takes A LOT of time to bake those lights vs. just on/off switch for lumen + with real time lighting, dynamic objects (like characters) are correctly lit as well (and ambient occlusion doesn't look like shit). For open world games with dynamic TOD there is no way to do good lighting without some form of real time GI.

 

[Radical_3d]

But this game is pretty much 1:1 gameplay match to 2009 game on PS1

Why stop there? It’s 1:1 gameplay match with Atari 2600!!

 

[Bojji]

Why stop there? It’s 1:1 gameplay match with Atari 2600!!

E.T. remake is next!

 

[Radical_3d]

Good looking linear games can be done without real time GI but it takes A LOT of time to bake those lights vs. just on/off switch for lumen + with real time lighting, dynamic objects (like characters) are correctly lit as well (and ambient occlusion doesn't look like shit).

If that’d alíviate dev times I’d agree but I don’t see UE5 games being released as if this is PS2 era. In a game like SH2 it just tanks performance and wasn’t developed in 18 months, so what’s the point?

E.T. remake is next!

It’s already done.

 

[Bojji]

If that’d alíviate dev times I’d agree but I don’t see UE5 games being released as if this is PS2 era. In a game like SH2 it just tanks performance and wasn’t developed in 18 months, so what’s the point?

Yeah creating assets and everything for AAA games will still take a lot of time. It still took ~4 years (maybe bit less) for SH2 but it would take longer if they had to bake lighting everywhere.

 

[TheKratos]

Will it be Pro enhanced? Might as well wait till Pro then.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

From what I recall, he says they’re mildly intrusive in Wukong and mostly restricted to traversal stutters in Dead Space. He doesn’t call then stuttering messes or imply that they are. That’s Jedi Survivor and he was right about that one.

He constantly refers to the Dead Space remake in his other videos when he talks about stuttering, suggesting that Dead Space Remake is clearly not a fun experience on PC. I noticed stuttering on my old 3770K when I tried to play Dead Space Remake, not to mention other PS5 ports like TLOU Remake (that game was certainly unplayable due to stuttering), but on my new PC, Dead Space Remake is running without a hitch, at least I don't remember any stuttering problems the last time I played the game. Dead Space Remake was absolute joy to play on my new PC.

After playing games for over 3 decades, I would consider myself a gaming enthusiast, but I still cant understand people who cry over few fps dips there and there. Alex is always pointing out even the slightest problems with framerate, even if it's just 1fps dip during the cutscenes (during camera transition). His obsession with locked performance is beyond absurd even for me, not to mention for casual gamers. If I listened to Digital Foundry and followed them blindly, I would not play most games.

And BTW- Star Wars Survior after recent patch is also a joy to play on PC, at least without RT. I only noticed some motion judder when RT was enabled.

 

[rsouzadk]

864p.

Damn.

 

[rsouzadk]

He constantly refers to the Dead Space remake in his other videos when he talks about stuttering, suggesting that Dead Space Remake is clearly not a fun experience on PC. I noticed stuttering on my old 3770K when I tried to play Dead Space Remake, not to mention other PS5 ports like TLOU Remake (that game was certainly unplayable due to stuttering), but on my new PC, Dead Space Remake is running without a hitch, at least I don't remember any stuttering problems the last time I played the game. Dead Space Remake was absolute joy to play on my new PC.

After playing games for over 3 decades, I would consider myself a gaming enthusiast, but I still cant understand people who cry over few fps dips there and there. Alex is always pointing out even the slightest problems with framerate, even if it's just 1fps dip during the cutscenes (during camera transition). His obsession with locked performance is beyond absurd even for me, not to mention for casual gamers. If I listened to Digital Foundry and followed them blindly, I would not play most games.

And BTW- Star Wars Survior after recent patch is also a joy to play on PC, at least without RT. I only noticed some motion judder when RT was enabled.

Dead Space Remake when i've played on pc was smooth as butter.

 

[Big Baller]

 

[Thebonehead]

Dead Space Remake when i've played on pc was smooth as butter.

Was anything but at launch.

You can see the spikes in frame time occur when the SSD reads and the associated judder that I recorded here.

 

[Bojji]

 

[rsouzadk]

Was anything but at launch.

You can see the spikes in frame time occur when the SSD reads and the associated judder that I recorded here.

Had none of that. Didnt play on launch though.

 

[adamsapple]

Had none of that. Didnt play on launch though.

You must be an outlier then cause the PC version still wasn't fixed the last time DF looked at it.

Digital Foundry: Troubled PC Ports Revisited - Forspoken, Returnal, Callisto Protocol, Dead Space - Are They Fixed?

For a while now, PC ports have launched with various issues to the point where the day one experience is often disappointing, if not downright broken. We've already seen promising signs of improvement in The Last of Us Part 1, but what about the rest of the triple-A titles we've got issues with...

www.neogaf.com

 

[rsouzadk]

You must be an outlier then cause the PC version still wasn't fixed the last time DF looked at it.

Digital Foundry: Troubled PC Ports Revisited - Forspoken, Returnal, Callisto Protocol, Dead Space - Are They Fixed?

For a while now, PC ports have launched with various issues to the point where the day one experience is often disappointing, if not downright broken. We've already seen promising signs of improvement in The Last of Us Part 1, but what about the rest of the triple-A titles we've got issues with...

www.neogaf.com

For sure.

 

[vpance]

I think people need to be regularly reminded what a properly optimised (60fps) made-for-PS5 game can look like:



With much, much (much) greater draw distances than Silent Hill.

Where the hell is Bluepoint with their new game.