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[mrcroket]

You either don’t have a Pro or were sippin’ on some J-Daniels when posting this.

No, I don't have one and I don't want one. I don't need one to look at comparisons and see the results, nor do I need to convince myself of the investment I have made. But hey, if you feel it looks better enjoy it, just don't look at comparisons and live in blissful ignorance.

 

[ManaByte]

I’ve put 12+ hours into the Pro patched version and don’t have a problem with it.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

No, I don't have one and I don't want one. I don't need one to look at comparisons and see the results, nor do I need to convince myself of the investment I have made. But hey, if you feel it looks better enjoy it, just don't look at comparisons and live in blissful ignorance.

Neither do I. I buy/experience for myself and make an informed decision based on that. The Pro won’t be for everyone, like everything in life. That’s fine, but I also won’t shit on something I’ve never tried because of a few duds in a positive package.

Again, I’m a PC user first and foremost. Shit ports are par for my course, despite how many other games suffer no such problems.

 

[Hunnybun]

Yet it has more improved games on it than shit stains like Avatar.

So, we either look at everything in its totality or single out the handful that need improvement.

Is PC fucking shit because devs put out fucking shit ports? Something to think about.

The games that are improved barely needed improvement. Pretty much all the ones that did still look shit (or even worse).

The problem with PS5 is those low res 60fps modes, and as far as I can see the Pro does basically nothing to address that.

I'm not sure what the shittiness or otherwise of the PC has to do with the Pro. They can both be shit independently.

 

[mansoor1980]

PSSR......................

 

[HeWhoWalks]

The games that are improved barely needed improvement. Pretty much all the ones that did still look shit (or even worse).

The problem with PS5 is those low res 60fps modes, and as far as I can see the Pro does basically nothing to address that.

I'm not sure what the shittiness or otherwise of the PC has to do with the Pro. They can both be shit independently.

The point was neither is shit, despite shit ports.

In any event, what “barely needed improvement” isn’t up to me. What was improved provided notable results (in some cases vastly so, such as Rebirth and Callisto Protocol). Duds will be duds, but can also be improved with the right effort/time.

 

[Topher]

I have seen DLSS upscale from below 1080p to 4k. Infact it was Alan Wake 2 and it looked like it could have been around 1440p if I didn't know. That's what makes DLSS so good. You will see this with the Switch 2 with games running internally running at 900p looking good. We will see after the Switch 2 launches how pointless it is if an AI upscaler can't upscale from a lower resolution.

Yeah, my gaming PC is Nvidia so I get what you are saying, but there is a cost to image quality the further away from native you get. Like I said, sub-1080p is just not ideal and that's what we have with AW2. DLSS is much more mature than PSSR and Switch is going to benefit greatly from that, no doubt. DLSS is not perfect though. I see instability in images regularly even in quality and balanced modes. Not a big deal usually, but it is there. Personally I'm looking forward to seeing how well DLSS handles older games like BoTW.

 

[Gaiff]

The games that are improved barely needed improvement. Pretty much all the ones that did still look shit (or even worse).

The problem with PS5 is those low res 60fps modes, and as far as I can see the Pro does basically nothing to address that.

I'm not sure what the shittiness or otherwise of the PC has to do with the Pro. They can both be shit independently.

FF7 Rebirth was in desperate need of an improvement. Same for DD2’s awful frame rate.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Move over FSR there’s a new Sheriff in town!

 

[tommib]

Don't know why these dumbass devs don't just use the extra GPU power to increase the resolution if they can't get PSSR to work.

Right? Just use the GPU grunt for standard improvements. Drop PSSR.

 

[angelgs90]

PSSR needs more time in the oven.

Just drop it and use TSR, like in the latest patch for Silent Hill 2 Remake (Performance Mode).

 

[Vick]

So developers are forced to either just use the not so big extra raster power from the PS5 Pro or use all it has with PSSR but risk breaking the image quality.

In proper hands, 15-20 extra frames could achieve literal wonders.

Especially in conjunction with already proven much better RT capabilities (F1, Dead Rising, GT7). It's PSSR than needs to see improvements immediately, especially if devs want to focus so much on it (which is Sony's fault).

The games that are improved barely needed improvement. Pretty much all the ones that did still look shit (or even worse).

The problem with PS5 is those low res 60fps modes, and as far as I can see the Pro does basically nothing to address that.

But this is objectively false.

PSSR 60fps Mode being better than previous Fidelity modes (not Performance, Fidelity) is terms of image quality is factual reality already. TLOU games, Ragnarok, Stellar Blade, Final Fantasy.

When competently implemented and especially with a1440p internal res, it already proved to resolve foliage better, solves dithering, and is able to depict genuine detail considerably better on top than actual native 4K TAA while having no impact on stability in motion at all:



Does the tech need work, and fast, especially because of some shared aspects in some games causing issues with the reconstruction, and devs wanting to focus on such low internal resolutions? Yes.
But there's no reason to get carried away with excessive nonsense.

 

[RoboFu]

In proper hands, 15-20 extra frames could achieve literal wonders.

Especially in conjunction with already proven much better RT capabilities (F1, Dead Rising, GT7). It's PSSR than needs to see improvements immediately, especially if devs want to focus so much on it (which is Sony's fault).


But this is objectively false.

PSSR 60fps Mode being better than previous Fidelity modes (not Performance, Fidelity) is terms of image quality is factual reality already. TLOU games, Ragnarok, Stellar Blade, Final Fantasy.

When competently implemented and especially with a1440p internal res, it already proved to resolve foliage better, solves dithering, and is able to depict genuine detail considerably better on top while having no impact on stability in motion at all:



Does it need work, and fast, especially because of some shared aspects in some games causing issues with the reconstruction, and devs wanting to focus on such low internal resolutions? Yes.
But there's no reason to get so carried away with nonsense.

Eww look at the PSSR fence

 

[Interfectum]

A $700 turkey.

 

[Hohenheim]

Well, this is not a good look!

 

[SlimySnake]

I’ve put 12+ hours into the Pro patched version and don’t have a problem with it.

Werent you calling people disingenious just yesterday?

Maybe time to man up and apologize?

Eh, I think this guy is just making hyperbolic videos about the Pro to feed into people's confirmation bias that they don't need it (they do).

I played about half of Frontiers of Pandora on XSX in Performance mode last year, I grabbed it in the Black Friday sale for the Pro and started a new game (I could've just used my synced save and continued, but I wanted to play through the first area again with the Pro upgrade). The Pro version is a huge upgrade over the original Performance mode and I've already put in about 12 hours into it.

Same thing with Outlaws. I finished the game in Performance mode on the base PS5, but then played through Wild Card (about 4-5 hours DLC) on the Pro and it's a huge upgrade over the base console.

I really believe a lot of the pushback against the Pro is disingenuous and people are looking for any tiny thing to convince themselves it's not a huge upgrade. The reason is there are a lot of people who fought scalpers and the supply issues to get their PS5 and some weren't able to easily get a PS5 for retail price until 2022 or even 2023. So these people have only owned their PS5 for a couple years and are REALLY pissed off that a Pro has come out so soon after they finally got the base console.

 

[Xtib81]

Please tell me you're being sarcastic.

Anyways, here's my take on how that went in internally:

What !? I'm dead serious. I'm regretting my purchase by the day.

 

[Darsxx82]

Except that it is if either a. Your game worked well beforehand and/or b. You really know what you’re doing.

that doesn’t mean PSSR doesn’t need to improve, but devs need equal improvements on their pipelines.

It would be curious to question the technological knowledge of people like Massive, Epic, Remedy, etc., etc. when it comes to making a type of technology work....

Perhaps some should begin to value the idea that PSSR (whether due to immaturity of the technology, lacks, incompatibility...) may be the first problem here and not so much just blame the developers. Even less so in developers who are a reference in graphics engines and game technology and when even Sony's first party developers do not use PSSR or include it only as an extra option.

And yes, devs can be blamed for not offering the option to use legacy PS5 modes when they can easily see that PSSR is not working in their game. But, as I said before, it is possible that the improvement achieved without PSSR was not what many people could also expect and need from €800 hardware.

 

[King Dazzar]

They just want the label on the product. Highlights where we are with quality control and some studios.

 

[bundylove]

 

[Vick]

Eww look at the PSSR fence

I get that you're trolling, but you mean that fence that's not even rendered at all in Fidelity Mode?

 

[squidilix]

Will people still be blaming the Devs instead of the tech?

You blame the developers when a PC version runs very badly on your machine. So?

 

[Gaiff]

Eww look at the PSSR fence

The chicken pen's grill disappears in Fidelity Mode.

Perhaps some should begin to value the idea that PSSR (whether due to immaturity of the technology, lacks, incompatibility...) may be the first problem here and not so much just blame the developers. Even less so in developers who are a reference in graphics engines and game technology and when even Sony's first party developers do not use PSSR or include it only as an extra option.

Neither point is completely wrong. Most of us agree that PSSR needs improvements. However, PSSR is ultimately a tool and the onus is on the developer to implement it or not. If they decide to use it and get shit results but ship the game anyway, it's on them. Sony isn't forcing anyone to use PSSR. The guys who make Lords of The Fallen stuck with TSR and GG developed their own solution. You can blame a tool for not being good enough, but if you decide to use said tool anyway, you're the problem. PSSR doesn't just toggle itself in games and ruin them.

I think PSSR is nowhere where it should be at the moment and Sony needs to get to work ASAP, but I also think that developers should be smart over whether to use it or not.

 

[adamsapple]

 

[Vick]

The chicken pen's grill disappears in Fidelity Mode.

And the railing on upper right side of the frame.

Neither point is completely wrong. Most of us agree that PSSR needs improvements. However, PSSR is ultimately a tool and the onus is on the developer to implement it or not. If they decide to use it and get shit results but ship the game anyway, it's on them. Sony isn't forcing anyone to use PSSR. The guys who make Lords of The Fallen stuck with TSR and GG developed their own solution. You can blame a tool for not being good enough, but if you decide to use said tool anyway, you're the problem. PSSR doesn't just toggle itself in games and ruin them.

 

[Klayzer]

You blame the developers when a PC version runs very badly on your machine. So?

 

[ManaByte]

Werent you calling people disingenious just yesterday?

I’ve put more than 12 hours into the Pro version and don’t see a problem with it.

 

[Kaiserstark]

"Right now, the sense is that PSSR can be as detrimental to a game's presentation as it can be a boon - and that's a problem when you're selling an expensive enhanced console upgrade to the most dedicated fans in your userbase. The quality bar is very, very straightforward: a Pro-enhanced game cannot and should not ship if it's worse than the output of the standard model. In terms of quantifiable metrics, frame-rate shouldn't be lower and to be fair, we've not seen anything like that from Pro software so far. However, things are trickier when dealing with image quality where it's typically a more subjective appraisal. That said, Avatar is losing so much detail owing to PSSR 'noise' that a cursory A to B comparison should do the trick. Foliage (Jedi: Survivor) or RTAO (Dragon's Dogma 2) shouldn't be flickering noticeably when it does not do so on the original PS5. At some point the question needs to be asked: can't developers see what's going wrong here?"

That's a huge question. Why are these patches even being released?

I’ll just quote Gaiff (great poster btw).

The only possible reason for patches like those of Silent Hill 2, Jedi Survivor, Outlaw or even Avatar to be able to be released in this state is that they did not go through QA because when you compare that to what other studios did with the Pro, it's just inexplicable to release something like that.

There is good integration of PSSR, some give you the choice to deactivate it, others simply choose not to use it and the games still have a nice improvement so release patches to end up with games in this state is just unacceptable.

 

[mckmas8808]

Will people still be blaming the Devs instead of the tech?

Yes, because the issue is with the devs and not the tech. Nobody is forcing them to make a PRO version. And if they do, they don't have to use it in the way that makes the game worse. You should understand that.

 

[Antony1992]

Damn, 800 dollars for a shitty hardware. I would be fuming if I had bought a Pro.

 

[pasterpl]

Sony is doing a terrible job with that pro, that's baffling.

It is not Sony, it is lazy fucking devs.

 

[mckmas8808]

Damn, 800 dollars for a shitty hardware. I would be fuming if I had bought a Pro.

 

[Topher]

Will people still be blaming the Devs instead of the tech?

Hard to blame the tech when we've seen examples of what the tech can do and it has produced much better results than this.

IMO....blame lies with 1) the devs for not QAing their product 2) Sony for allowing patches that make games worse on their premium product. This simply should not be the case especially not when these games do not have the option to run in non-Pro modes.

 

[saintjules]

No, I don't have one and I don't want one. I don't need one to look at comparisons and see the results, nor do I need to convince myself of the investment I have made. But hey, if you feel it looks better enjoy it, just don't look at comparisons and live in blissful ignorance.

Can't make such comments if you don't have one to do an actual comparison for yourself. Everything online is compromised in some fashion preventing you from seeing what's making the Pro work well for some of the games so far.

Playing Forbidden West and FF7 Rebirth is a night and day difference for example. I don't regret the $699 tag for it.

 

[rickybooby87]

DF points this out in the article"

"PSSR has delivered many excellent results: Stellar Blade looks absolutely phenomenal, Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth is a game transformed, while all of Insomniac's games enjoy substantial upgrades thanks to PSSR. "

Salient points with specific examples that prove the tech works when devs actually take the time to optimize?

wedontdothathere.gif

 

[mckmas8808]

Hard to blame the tech when we've seen examples of what the tech can do and it has produced much better results than this.

IMO....blame lies with 1) the devs for not QAing their product 2) Sony for allowing patches that make games worse on their premium product. This simply should not be the case especially not when these games do not have the option to run in non-Pro modes.

So when will this "Allowing" begin and end?

 

[Z O N E]

I think what sucks for developers is that games being released AFTER the PS5 Pro release are being forced to support PSSR, it's not optional to have PSSR.

The games BEFORE PS5 Pro, they're optional if developers want to add PSSR.

I think it's wrong that there isn't an option to disable PSSR and have the base PS5 visuals as some might prefer it over what they're currently getting.

For me, that flickering is ANNOYING. Once you see the flickering, you can't unsee it and it only gets more noticeable.

 

[Salty Pickle]

Will people still be blaming the Devs instead of the tech?

As of now it is on the devs. They make their choices for their games, not Sony.

They could simply opt to not use it.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Yeah, my gaming PC is Nvidia so I get what you are saying, but there is a cost to image quality the further away from native you get. Like I said, sub-1080p is just not ideal and that's what we have with AW2. DLSS is much more mature than PSSR and Switch is going to benefit greatly from that, no doubt. DLSS is not perfect though. I see instability in images regularly even in quality and balanced modes. Not a big deal usually, but it is there. Personally I'm looking forward to seeing how well DLSS handles older games like BoTW.

SH2 is a good example of some then stability you speak of with DLSS. Although it vastly improves the frame rate, James’ hair, for example, looks obviously worse.

It would be curious to question the technological knowledge of people like Massive, Epic, Remedy, etc., etc. when it comes to making a type of technology work....

Perhaps some should begin to value the idea that PSSR (whether due to immaturity of the technology, lacks, incompatibility...) may be the first problem here and not so much just blame the developers. Even less so in developers who are a reference in graphics engines and game technology and when even Sony's first party developers do not use PSSR or include it only as an extra option.

And yes, devs can be blamed for not offering the option to use legacy PS5 modes when they can easily see that PSSR is not working in their game. But, as I said before, it is possible that the improvement achieved without PSSR was not what many people could also expect and need from €800 hardware.

Need isn’t quantifiable outside of 60fps, I’d wager. 60+ is a bonus even on a Pro device.

And Sony ‘s devs do use PSSR. Some of the best Pro lookers are using it (Ratchet, TLOU, etc).

 

[Vick]

Damn, 800 dollars for a shitty hardware. I would be fuming if I had bought a Pro.

Judging from the last messages of your post history, which are these, in order..

This PRO and PSSR are a joke

It is absolutely a shame these are the results after spending that amount of money. And this is not the first case. Absolutely ridicolous.

Easy solution. Stop buying PS5 Pro. That looks really bad.

From a performance mode I expect higher framerate. That's the goal of such a mode.

Hence, Series X performance is better.

Sbrotfl. 900 dollars console.

I doubt you would have come close to actually owning one.

 

[Pagusas]

So far the only games I've played with it are Spiderman and FF7 Rebirth. Both benefit from it, though I do hope Sony can fix the shimmering issue, as its a bit annoying in FF7 Rebirth (but still does look better).

 

[SlimySnake]

That doesn’t mean PSSR doesn’t need to improve, but devs need equal improvements on their pipelines.

What improvement could Massive, Bloober, Respawn, Bioware and Remedy make to their development pipeline to fix an issue inherent to PSSR's inability to render RT elements?

 

[HeWhoWalks]

What improvement could Massive, Bloober, Respawn, Bioware and Remedy make to their development pipeline to fix an issue inherent to PSSR's inability to render RT elements?

They could, you know, not use PSSR.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I really should have just brought a fucking 4080.

 

[SlimySnake]

They could, you know, not use PSSR.

That's not an improvement to the pipeline.

 

[Chuck Berry]

Really glad I've held off picking one up. So far the only games that seem to have gotten it right are Callisto, Rebirth and Stellar Blade and I don't feel like fully replaying any of them anytime soon.

For me, at this point GTAVI is the sole reason to grab one and that thing won't even have a legit release date for at least another year.

 

[hemo memo]

A rushed-to-market product. That's what is going on.

 

[skyfinch]

Maybe market the Pro as PS5 Slightly Pro?

 

[adamsapple]

I really should have just brought a fucking 4080.

IBuyPower PC's starting to look a bit tempting, eh ?

 

[mrcroket]

Can't make such comments if you don't have one to do an actual comparison for yourself. Everything online is compromised in some fashion preventing you from seeing what's making the Pro work well for some of the games so far.

Playing Forbidden West and FF7 Rebirth is a night and day difference for example. I don't regret the $699 tag for it.

Disagree, not having it and seeing in-depth and objective reviews is more valid than subjective reviews after making an investment that you have to justify plus the hype of the new gadget.