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[Dynasty8]

Sad times when a 7/10 is medíocre
The review meme scale never been so true.

Tbh, anything that ever got a 4.0 - 6.0 back in the 80s/90s/Early 00s was never considered "average". It was always shit.

A 4 or 5 out of 10 has never been considered average for game, movie, comic, etc reviews. 7-8 has been the average for as long as I can remember.

 

[Aenima]

Progress report:

- Level 50
- Saved right before entering what I am very sure is the final dungeon
- The performance in Quality mode takes a shit in the Kingdom of Waloed fields, some segments and fights feel like they're dropping to low 20s, if not the high 10s.
- All the available Hunts complete, did not unlock any trophy so I'm guessing there will be exclusive ones in NG+
- Svarog was a bitch

All hunts are available in the 1st run. Thers 32 hunts. Some hunts are tied to side quests so they will only appear in the hunting board when u accept the quest.

In NG+ killed Svarog that was 20 lvs higher than me. He did a 1 hit kill. But avoiding that attack it felt easier than my 1st run. Guess knowing his moves and being more confortable with the combat system makes it feel easier.

 

[Lokaum D+]

All hunts are available in the 1st run. Thers 32 hunts. Some hunts are tied to side quests so they will only appear in the hunting board when u accept the quest.

In NG+ killed Svarog that was 20 lvs higher than me. He did a 1 hit kill. But avoiding that attack it felt easier than my 1st run. Guess knowing his moves and being more confortable with the combat system makes it feel easier.

there is no NG+ only hunts ?

 

[Aenima]

there is no NG+ only hunts ?

As far as i know, no. Im close to the end game in my NG+ run and so far i did the same hunts. And i got the trophy for doing all hunts in my 1st run.

In NG+ thers a bunch of extra minibosses here and there during the story , on the map, and sidequests, but the hunts has been the same, just the hunt targets are much more high level. Like Svarog was level 93.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

As far as i know, no. Im close to the end game in my NG+ run and so far i did the same hunts. And i got the trophy for doing all hunts in my 1st run.

In NG+ thers a bunch of extra minibosses here and there during the story , on the map, and sidequests, but the hunts has been the same, just the hunt targets are much more high level. Like Svarog was level 93.

I also got the trophy in fist run. So surely there must not be more in NG+.

 

[Danjin44]

When I think about Odin’s abilities and mechanics functions exactly like LongSword in MH World and Rise, maybe this is why I like it so much.

 

[adamsapple]

As far as i know, no. Im close to the end game in my NG+ run and so far i did the same hunts. And i got the trophy for doing all hunts in my 1st run.

In NG+ thers a bunch of extra minibosses here and there during the story , on the map, and sidequests, but the hunts has been the same, just the hunt targets are much more high level. Like Svarog was level 93.

I beat Svarog last, I guess the trophy I got there was the one, need to check back the description, I thought it was a Svarog only trophy.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Finished the game, well good damn it was amazing, the music, well-written characters, and ending left me:

Spoiler: My feelings

I really enjoyed Dion's character

Clive's

 

[Sleepwalker]

That controller is super nice, sucks that they never make stuff like this available over here in Canada. This gen has been terrible in terms of console/control customization, youd think the plates would make it easier.

 

[Chechack]

Finished the game few days back.

Loved the gamed until after bahamut fight. After that seems like the devs really finished their budget for this game and was rushed to finish thus game, kinda letdown from odin onwards.

 

[linko9]

Finished the game few days back.

Loved the gamed until after bahamut fight. After that seems like the devs really finished their budget for this game and was rushed to finish thus game, kinda letdown from odin onwards.

I'm honestly shocked at how this went entirely unmentioned in all the reviews I've seen.

Spoiler: spoiler for after bahamut

They really just made the entire game overcast and pink for the rest of the game? The lighting was so good in this game! And to make it worse, they took some of the best tracks in the game (area music) and replaced it with horrible downer versions of those same songs. I get that it's in service of the overall plot arc, but it's a pretty crazy way to sabotage your game's energy.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Finished the game few days back.

Loved the gamed until after bahamut fight. After that seems like the devs really finished their budget for this game and was rushed to finish thus game, kinda letdown from odin onwards.

It's sadly so true.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Finished the game few days back.

Loved the gamed until after bahamut fight. After that seems like the devs really finished their budget for this game and was rushed to finish thus game, kinda letdown from odin onwards.

Odin fight has a context of why is not "epic" as garuda, titan and bahamut, care to share why do u think they finished their budget and rushed the endgame ?

 

[Sub_Level]

Odin fight was great. No gimmicks, just man-to-man combat.

 

[Danjin44]

Odin fight was great. No gimmicks, just man-to-man combat.

And it make sense in context of the fight, unlike others he wasn’t try to kill Clive but rather get him ready for Ultima.

 

[adamsapple]

We Asura's Wrath now boys!

RE: Final boss

 

[March Climber]

4. Story takes an extended vacation before getting back on track again. Some portion of main quest should have been side quests

I agree regarding this, they should have somehow spent more time building up

Spoiler

Dion's descent into madness, because even though they showed at the end that he was under Ultima's influence and doing it all for his father, him going from wanting to kill Annabella and her son to wanting to kill the entire Kingdom and Phoenix was a literal 0-100 moment that felt like it could have been expanded upon imo. Narratively, they had to come up with a reason for Dion and Clive to fight, and I didn't expect such a quick 180 from being an ally to instant genocidal maniac after accidentally killing his father. Instead it felt like Ultima just helped him flip on a light switch and that's all that was needed.

Edit: And like others have said, more of Barnabas.

 

[skit_data]

Finished the game today!
Did all sidequests, hunted down every monster on the board and forged the Götterdämmerung and the Ouroboros armor pieces.

I'll probably need to let it sit for a while but overall: Really great game, it feels like this is a big step in the right direction in regards of where I personally would like to see the franchise go. M-rated, dark fantasy with interesting, compelling characters.

I haven't involved myself too much in the whole "is this a FF-game or even a RPG anymore?"-discussion and I don't plan to but I'll say this:
This game brought back that larger than life demigod battles and adrenaline fueled hack and slash that made God of War 1-3 so damn great.
It sort of fits perfectly in the void created when God of War changed its direction while still retaining a really strong essence of the Final Fantasy games I've really appreciated in terms of engaging storytelling and character interactions.

I felt it ended a little abrubtly and I haven't really made up my mind when it comes to the last 1/4 of the game. I was sort of expecting more of a epilogue and more in depth explanation to some of the more vague parts

Spoiler

i.e what exactly is Torgals role or purpose in the grand scheme, seems like either a plot hole or am I the stupid one? I was half expecting Torgal to turn out to be some sort of supreme being that far transcends the small minds of humans and the civilization Ultima was part of

I'll probably return to the thread and post some more thoughts as they pop up

Edit: I'll also add that this games sidequests are all over the place in terms of quality. Some really great stories and character moments and some really bottom of the barrel
"talk to NPC1 who sends you to NPC2 on the other side of the map and then you gotta go back and talk to NPC1 who sends you on a fetch quest in a third location and in the end all you got for it was a fucking Meteorite"-shit.
I wish they would've categorized the sidequests because I honestly skipped a hefty amount of dialogue because I didn't give a single shit about some semi fringe characters Akhasic brother heroically cutting his carotid artery. But every now and then you get moments that feel very important and essential (finding your old tree house with Torgal, finding flowers for Jill etc.).

Edit2: Am I the only one that found Dion sort of low key being the most intriguing character in the game?

 

[fallingdove]

I tell you what. This game looks amazing at night time with flame light sources.

Looks absolutely amazing.

Just did a larger main story section again and it was excellent from beginning to end.

I guess I'll be back to the plodding side quests until the next amazing section.

So maybe don’t do the side quests?

 

[Danjin44]

I felt it ended a little abrubtly and I haven't really made up my mind when it comes to the last 1/4 of the game. I was sort of expecting more of a epilogue and more in depth explanation to some of the more vague parts

Spoiler

undefined

What Clive did in end is with his Ulitma power removed all magick from the world which kind was Cid's goal. this is why he and his daughter build and invent machines to help people live without use of magick and we saw fruit of that effort in end credit scene people living normally and centuries has past that magic was nothing more than make believe fantasy to them.

It similar what Nahobino did in SMTV's true ending by removing all demons and gods from the world.

 

[Sub_Level]

Just beat it. Great ending. Made sure to get in a Level 5 Zantetsuken on the final boss as one last fuck you.

 

[skit_data]

What Clive did in end is with his Ulitma power removed all magick from the world which kind was Cid's goal. this is why he and his daughter build and invent machines to help people live without use of magick and we saw fruit of that effort in end credit scene people living normally and centuries has past that magic was nothing more than make believe fantasy to them.

It similar what Nahobino did in SMTV's true ending by removing all demons and gods from the world.

Yeah, I did get all that and it's part of why I'm a bit split on the ending. It sort of clarifies or rather insinuates the fate of several characters and their end goals

Spoiler

Yes, they succeeded in ridding the world of magic and securing Valisthea for all mankind but I think I might have wanted just a bit more of Clive and Jills everyday life with everyday chores or something, along with some hints of where Gav, Mid and the rest of the crew ended up. I mean the book sorta alludes to Clive settling down and using the quill from Hypocrates to tell the tale but there could be just a bit more. I mean the last we see of Jill is her crying because she assumes Clive is dead. Kind of a strange last appearence for a character that important to Clive. I don't know, I also kind of like it ending it way it did because of the simplicity of the last scene. I don't know, maybe I just wanted to see Jill smile again one last time

 

[Danjin44]

Yeah, I did get all that and it's part of why I'm a bit split on the ending. It sort of clarifies or rather insinuates the fate of several characters and their end goals

Spoiler

Yes, they succeeded in ridding the world of magic and securing Valisthea for all mankind but I think I might have wanted just a bit more of Clive and Jills everyday life with everyday chores or something, along with some hints of where Gav, Mid and the rest of the crew ended up. I mean the book sorta alludes to Clive settling down and using the quill from Hypocrates to tell the tale but there could be just a bit more. I mean the last we see of Jill is her crying because she assumes Clive is dead. Kind of a strange last appearence for a character that important to Clive. I don't know, I also kind of like it ending it way it did because of the simplicity of the last scene. I don't know, maybe I just wanted to see Jill smile again one last time

To me not everything needs to over-explained, we saw Jill crying in the end because she knew Clive wasn't coming back and Gav seeing Jill crying also knew Clive's fate. After that people going struggle for years living without magic but thanks to Cid and Mid's inventions people will learn how live without it, I mean do we really need long explanations for this, sometimes less is more.

This is also why I LOVED Future Redeemed (Xenoblade 3 DLC) ending.

 

[skit_data]

To me not everthing needs to over-explained, we saw Jill crying in the end because she knew Clive wasn't coming back and Gav seeing Jill crying also knew Clive's fate. After that people going struggle for years living without magic but thanks to Cid and Mid's inventions people will learn how live without it, I mean do we really need long explanations for this, sometimes less is more.

This is also why I LOVED Future Redeemed (Xenoblade 3 DLC) ending.

Yeah, you're probably right because it runs the risk of becoming pretty boring and unmemorable instead.

Spoiler

I just realized I never really understood how Joshua survived the Night of Flames either, did we get a proper explanation or at least some kind of hint (outside of the obvious theme Phoenix=resurrection)?

 

[Danjin44]

Yeah, you're probably right because it runs the risk of becoming pretty boring and unmemorable instead.

Spoiler

I just realized I never really understood how Joshua survived the Night of Flames either, did we get a proper explanation or at least some kind of hint (outside of the obvious theme Phoenix=resurrection)?

My guess is Joshua was severely injured but still alive and Undying group managed to find him and patch him up.

 

[Perfo]

Took down

Spoiler

Bahamut

, man what an incredible hyping boss fight was that. I didn’t think the previous showdown could be beaten but this even surpasses it. Easily. Epic epic epic!
Now into what I guess is the last arc of the game.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I'll say one thing....God damn I am jealous of all of you that are on new game plus or even completed it a week ago or so...

How the hell do you all find the time.?...

Middle aged life sucks when you are a fan of video games some times....life gets in the way....

 

[GooseMan69]

I'll say one thing....God damn I am jealous of all of you that are on new game plus or even completed it a week ago or so...

How the hell do you all find the time.?...

Middle aged life sucks when you are a fan of video games some times....life gets in the way....

I’m always amazed at how quickly people blow through games. Like two days after release I see people posting their full thoughts after finishing it. How?? I consider myself one of the lucky ones. I get to play a few hours a night like 4 or 5 nights a week. It takes me like a month to finish most of these games.

 

[Danjin44]

I was wrong about Bahamut’s abilities, I thought his wing of light is useless since you very slow and it charges up slowly but what I didn’t know it charges up more quickly if you perfect dodge while in that form and with combination of Satellite you can unleash hell up on enemies.

I’m loving the Eikon system in this game, each one has its own quirks and mechanics, it up to you how use them.

 

[GymWolf]

How much do i have left if i just

Spoiler

beated barnabas and i'm going to fight uptima with joshua

 

[hyperbertha]

I agree regarding this, they should have somehow spent more time building up

Spoiler

Dion's descent into madness, because even though they showed at the end that he was under Ultima's influence and doing it all for his father, him going from wanting to kill Annabella and her son to wanting to kill the entire Kingdom and Phoenix was a literal 0-100 moment that felt like it could have been expanded upon imo. Narratively, they had to come up with a reason for Dion and Clive to fight, and I didn't expect such a quick 180 from being an ally to instant genocidal maniac after accidentally killing his father. Instead it felt like Ultima just helped him flip on a light switch and that's all that was needed.

Edit: And like others have said, more of Barnabas.

Yep, dion is just danaerys Targaryen from the show, written as badly as season 8. Blows my mind that some think this game has well written characters.

 

[Tahj]

Am 1/4 of the way into NG+ & am so not tired of FFXVI yet, I'm thrilled to say (& I'd be further on NG+, but one of my brothers is visiting, so playtime is less, no problem).

As I described XVI to him - this is the most roller-coaster game I may have ever played in 40yrs of gaming, lol. The highs for me being combat in general, so many of the "regular" boss battles (esp enjoyed the

Spoiler

Dragoon

fights), the Eikon fights were all kinds of crazy, the music is really close to my favorite FF OST (which is VII/VIIR), Clive is probably my favorite FF protag, w/ Ben Starr kicking ass, & I very much enjoyed the story.

The "lows" of the roller-coaster aren't equal to bad IMO, but rather extended moments of chill in between the hyped highs mentioned. I really enjoyed sitting down w/ Harpocrates & reading every entry, getting entrenched in the worldbuilding & lore, testing out new abilities in the training mode, & appreciated how many of the SQ's (as "MMO" as they were) always tied back to the community or a character's individual story, etc.

It wasn't all great, ofc. There were some legit dull quests, the camera center-pull (until the recent patch!) drove me crazy, performance in some areas needs work, & a hard mode should've been avail from the start.

All said, it's not my favorite FF - but I think it's tied for second, & I think it's made its way into my top ten games overall (somewhere btwn 7-10). Really had / having an excellent time!

ETA: How could I forgot to mention the Hunts? 5:30AM not-enough-caffiene-brain. Anyway, really had loads of fun w/ them!

 

[Clear]

Yep, dion is just danaerys Targaryen from the show, written as badly as season 8. Blows my mind that some think this game has well written characters.

I'm legitimately mystified as to how you could take that from his character arc.

Besides, characters being archetypical or "tropey" is not a problem; if that was the case things like Star Wars would never have become the global phenomena they became. The trick is whether or not the writing/performance allows these familiar dramatic figures to connect with the audience. As can easily be seen by people's reactions, FFXVI's cast does this for the majority of players.

 

[FeralEcho]

Yep, dion is just danaerys Targaryen from the show, written as badly as season 8. Blows my mind that some think this game has well written characters.

What are you guys talking about,you misread the entire storyline about him,he was the one in the right,it was his father that was manipulated.He went from 0 to 100 because of losing control of his Eikon due to the tragedy that unfolded.He wasnt in control same as Clive in the begining.

 

[Sub_Level]

I’m glad the ending committed to not being 100% happy. It will probably be retroactively undermind FFX-2 style but for now we can appreciate it. No FFVIII or FFIX style ride off into the sunset this time.

 

[hyperbertha]

I'm legitimately mystified as to how you could take that from his character arc.

Besides, characters being archetypical or "tropey" is not a problem; if that was the case things like Star Wars would never have become the global phenomena they became. The trick is whether or not the writing/performance allows these familiar dramatic figures to connect with the audience. As can easily be seen by people's reactions, FFXVI's cast does this for the majority of players.

I don't know where I said his character was tropey. The problem is him razing his own city to the ground lacked any sort of explanation. I don't buy the idea that rage turned him into a super villain. Majority of people like Avengers. That doesn't mean anything. This game's characters, especially Clive, Jill and kupka where lacking nuance and one dimensional imo. Benedikta was good but she died early.

What are you guys talking about,you misread the entire storyline about him,he was the one in the right,it was his father that was manipulated.He went from 0 to 100 because of losing control of his Eikon due to the tragedy that unfolded.He wasnt in control same as Clive in the begining.

Clive was turning into ifrit for the first time. Dion was in control for years. Besides, suddenly losing control of his eikon is just as lousy as an instant heel turn: plot contrivance to drive shock value and kill of certain lose ends (Anabella).

 

[Madflavor]

I don't know where I said his character was tropey. The problem is him razing his own city to the ground lacked any sort of explanation. I don't buy the idea that rage turned him into a super villain. Majority of people like Avengers. That doesn't mean anything. This game's characters, especially Clive, Jill and kupka where lacking nuance and one dimensional imo. Benedikta was good but she died early.

Clive was turning into ifrit for the first time. Dion was in control for years. Besides, suddenly losing control of his eikon is just as lousy as an instant heel turn: plot contrivance to drive shock value and kill of certain lose ends (Anabella).

Can I offer a piece of advice? I would just say you didn't like the characters, thought they were badly written, and then just leave it at that. It's your opinion, you don't need to explain yourself. Because the more you try to defend your point, the more you're revealing you weren't paying enough attention to the story and just misunderstood the lore, character motivation, and development.

I’m glad the ending committed to not being 100% happy. It will probably be retroactively undermind FFX-2 style but for now we can appreciate it. No FFVIII or FFIX style ride off into the sunset this time.

Well they did lay out A LOT of groundwork and hints that Clive survived. Wouldn't be surprised if we get confirmation with the DLC.

 

[Nankatsu]

Just did the eikon titan fight. Holy shit.

It's amazing how can they can make each major boss fight better than the previous ones.

 

[hyperbertha]

Can I offer a piece of advice? I would just say you didn't like the characters, thought they were badly written, and then just leave it at that. It's your opinion, you don't need to explain yourself. Because the more you try to defend your point, the more you're revealing you weren't paying enough attention to the story and just misunderstood the lore, character motivation, and development.

Was that really necessary? You started off amicably then ended with an attack. You keep quoting me as if you're highly insecure about others discussing this game's flaws. I wasn't even responding to you. This game isn't complex or genius enough to have difficulty understanding anything. It's as straightforward as it gets. Go on. Explain how kupka or Jill was a well developed multi-layered character.

 

[Lokaum D+]

How much do i have left if i just

Spoiler

beated barnabas and i'm going to fight uptima with joshua

at least 10 hours if u are doing sidequests and skipping nothing.

*btw endgame sidequests are important and really good, a lot of worldbuilding and character development.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I'll say one thing....God damn I am jealous of all of you that are on new game plus or even completed it a week ago or so...

How the hell do you all find the time.?...

Middle aged life sucks when you are a fan of video games some times....life gets in the way....

It took me a week and I played on average 6+ hours per day lol. I'm 31, no kids. Even then I found my wife getting pretty annoyed because I spent most of the day playing I hadn't gamed this hard in years and I was exhausted by the end of each day, yet I had already seen people here finish it in half the time it took me or less lol.

 

[Clear]

Can I offer a piece of advice? I would just say you didn't like the characters, thought they were badly written, and then just leave it at that. It's your opinion, you don't need to explain yourself. Because the more you try to defend your point, the more you're revealing you weren't paying enough attention to the story and just misunderstood the lore, character motivation, and development.

To be fair, I think this is an extremely common failing in criticism these days, both professional and fan-sourced.

My view is that you need a fundamental position from which your judgements are rooted; specifically do you value "good" as being that which aligns with your personal taste, or that which is observably effective in achieving its goals.

I came to this realization weirdly enough not through art, but from watching a lot of combat sports both real and "worked" in a pro-wrestling sense. This might sound nutty, but I don't think its arguable that the reason these things have mass appeal is that they address really universal touchstones in terms of giving the audience a dramatic spectacle. I think high-minded judgements and arguments are important, but there a few absolute fundamentals that take priority.

First thing; and this I take from the carny arts of pro wrestling: You have to get the players in the story "over". The audience need to be invested in the fight; you want them to root for the hero and against the villain. This isn't so simple as just making them black versus white opposites, the villain needs to have some sort of attractive or at least admirable quality in spite of their overt villainy. Similarly the hero needs a defining flaw that they must overcome. Real basic stuff, but its what most of us respond to as human beings. The chinks in their armour are what humanizes both sides of the conflict.

Second thing I take from real fighting: Flashy techniques tend to be effectively countered by solidly executed fundamentals. The real crucible is effectiveness in performance. In a story-telling sense this means that you don't have to over-think every beat; you just need to meaningfully "land" as much as possible because over time the accumulation will break the opponent's resolve and suspension of disbelief will result.

This for me is why so much of the post-modernist/ironic/"meta" crap that's gotten so prevalent of late falls flat. The writers/directors are so busy drawing attention to themselves and their cleverness, noone in the audience feels invited into the story. Its all flashy swings and misses, if they constantly jabbed and landed (emotionally/dramatically) they'd do way better.

The writing in FFXVI sticks to the fundamentals and the general response shows that people respond to it. People like Clive as a protagonist because the game -even down to the most drudgy fetch quests- constantly shows him in an admirable light. Its not subtle or particularly nuanced, but the repetition and consistency carries it off.

 

[Madflavor]

Was that really necessary? You started off amicably then ended with an attack. You keep quoting me as if you're highly insecure about others discussing this game's flaws. I wasn't even responding to you.

Can you not with the "How dare you attack me" bullshit? You've been shitting on the game's story and characters in the OT multiple times now, but can't stand it when people with an opposing opinion call out your argument. I can't stand people with a big mouth but then act like a victim when people call them out.

Go on. Explain how kupka or Jill was a well developed multi-layered character.

There's valid criticism to be had with how underdeveloped some of the characters are, particularly with Jill. I don't think Jill is bad at all, and she had moments to shine throughout the game, but there was clearly missed potential with her. Kupka's role in the story was completely fine for a boss character. He's a bully, but not enough of a meathead where he's stupid. He outmaneuvered the heroes more than once, and even though they were able to fight their way out of it, these acts displayed how intelligent he could be. His biggest flaw was his capacity to get too emotional, which Ultima saw through. That's why he and Sleipnir honed in on that weakness of his with Benedikta and manipulated him to losing control. For all his physical might and cunning intellect, the end of his arc showed how weak he really was. But to be fair to him, the severed head of his dead lover was sent to him in a box. That would certainly emotionally compromise most people.

 

[Madflavor]

To be fair, I think this is an extremely common failing in criticism these days, both professional and fan-sourced.

My view is that you need a fundamental position from which your judgements are rooted; specifically do you value "good" as being that which aligns with your personal taste, or that which is observably effective in achieving its goals.

I came to this realization weirdly enough not through art, but from watching a lot of combat sports both real and "worked" in a pro-wrestling sense. This might sound nutty, but I don't think its arguable that the reason these things have mass appeal is that they address really universal touchstones in terms of giving the audience a dramatic spectacle. I think high-minded judgements and arguments are important, but there a few absolute fundamentals that take priority.

First thing; and this I take from the carny arts of pro wrestling: You have to get the players in the story "over". The audience need to be invested in the fight; you want them to root for the hero and against the villain. This isn't so simple as just making them black versus white opposites, the villain needs to have some sort of attractive or at least admirable quality in spite of their overt villainy. Similarly the hero needs a defining flaw that they must overcome. Real basic stuff, but its what most of us respond to as human beings. The chinks in their armour are what humanizes both sides of the conflict.

Second thing I take from real fighting: Flashy techniques tend to be effectively countered by solidly executed fundamentals. The real crucible is effectiveness in performance. In a story-telling sense this means that you don't have to over-think every beat; you just need to meaningfully "land" as much as possible because over time the accumulation will break the opponent's resolve and suspension of disbelief will result.

This for me is why so much of the post-modernist/ironic/"meta" crap that's gotten so prevalent of late falls flat. The writers/directors are so busy drawing attention to themselves and their cleverness, noone in the audience feels invited into the story. Its all flashy swings and misses, if they constantly jabbed and landed (emotionally/dramatically) they'd do way better.

The writing in FFXVI sticks to the fundamentals and the general response shows that people respond to it. People like Clive as a protagonist because the game -even down to the most drudgy fetch quests- constantly shows him in an admirable light. Its not subtle or particularly nuanced, but the repetition and consistency carries it off.

It's interesting you bring that up. There are moments in the story, particularly at the very end, which manage to blend flash with fundamental storytelling together in certain gameplay sections. For example

Spoiler: Final Boss

When Clive is fighting Ultima, there's a segment where both are matching their Eikon abilities against each other. It's very flashy, but during the sequence you hear the voices of Clive's friends cheering for him. From our perspective we spent 50+ hours with these characters, so hearing them cheer us (Clive) on, is something I think a person can be emotionally drawn to on a fundamental level. I love seeing that kind of gameplay/story integration during exciting/emotional moments in game.

 

[Celcius]

How were some of you able to get that limited edition controller and face plates? Was that not available in north america?

 

[March Climber]

What are you guys talking about,you misread the entire storyline about him,he was the one in the right,it was his father that was manipulated.He went from 0 to 100 because of losing control of his Eikon due to the tragedy that unfolded.He wasnt in control same as Clive in the begining.

My stance isn’t exactly the same as hyperbertha ‘s stance. He says that Dion was simply badly written. I think that Dion was written well up until a certain pivotal moment and I think that pivotal moment was written okay since it could technically be handwaved by

Spoiler

Ultima doing Ultima stuff

However I feel it simply could have been a more gradual decline instead of using that hand waving. This would make the antagonist more of someone to hate since they could have constantly made things worse and worse for Dion over time, as an experiment, regarding their speech earlier in the game about how people act.

Dion

Spoiler

was clearly set up as a deuteragonist because he had a lot of screen time and buildup since earlier in the game. He was a good person being dealt a bad hand. Again, until that snap moment him and Clive had zero reason to fight each other. They didn’t hate each other and they had no reason to. Even during the fight Clive wasn’t really angry at him like he was with Kupka. His motivation was just wanting to make sure his brother was safe.

Honestly, I was hoping that Dion would be the one twist in the story where you simply walk up to him and have a simple chat, he maybe gives you some of his power, and he points Clive in the direction to kill his own mother and Ultima. The mother would then turn into some sort of boss fight with her using Ultima’s power maybe. It would have been more of an emotional moment and Clive would feel a bit conflicted about killing his own mother to save everyone. I’m simply saying I wanted slightly more of a narrative buildup instead of making Clive boringly navigate the desert a second time and do a bunch of busywork, but this time as a main quest.

 

[Valonquar]

How were some of you able to get that limited edition controller and face plates? Was that not available in north america?

Japan exclusive, lots of Ebay resellers making insane profit.

 

[mortal]

My stance isn’t exactly the same as hyperbertha ‘s stance. He says that Dion was simply badly written. I think that Dion was written well up until a certain pivotal moment and I think that pivotal moment was written okay since it could technically be handwaved by

Spoiler

Ultima doing Ultima stuff

However I feel it simply could have been a more gradual decline instead of using that hand waving. This would make the antagonist more of someone to hate since they could have constantly made things worse and worse for Dion over time, as an experiment, regarding their speech earlier in the game about how people act.

Dion

Spoiler

was clearly set up as a deuteragonist because he had a lot of screen time and buildup since earlier in the game. He was a good person being dealt a bad hand. Again, until that snap moment him and Clive had zero reason to fight each other. They didn’t hate each other and they had no reason to. Even during the fight Clive wasn’t really angry at him like he was with Kupka. His motivation was just wanting to make sure his brother was safe.

Honestly, I was hoping that Dion would be the one twist in the story where you simply walk up to him and have a simple chat, he maybe gives you some of his power, and he points Clive in the direction to kill his own mother and Ultima. The mother would then turn into some sort of boss fight with her using Ultima’s power maybe. It would have been more of an emotional moment and Clive would feel a bit conflicted about killing his own mother to save everyone. I’m simply saying I wanted slightly more of a narrative buildup instead of making Clive boringly navigate the desert a second time and do a bunch of busywork, but this time as a main quest.

The one thing I'd maybe disagree with is that I believe Dion was more of a tertiary character, but obviously on the other side of a conflict.
Imo Joshua was more of the deuteragonist of FFXVI, we even start the game playing him and play as him at multiple points in the game.
I suspect the final journey to Origin being taken by just those three and the order of their supposed deaths is indicative of that.

I would've loved to play as Dion and explore Oriflamme or Twinside from his perspective before shit went south.
Given the way that Dion was written, it does seem like there was once a possibility of that happening during early points in XVI's development.
I think it was a missed opportunity considering that Clive, Joshua, & Dion were all technically related through Anabella's actions and the birth of Olivier.
I was hoping for more human drama between these characters, rather than it being the result of Ultima pulling strings.

A third lead also could've severed as an alternative to having a conventional party; even possibly satisfying those FF fans that weren't encaustic about the lack of playable party members in XVI.

From my impression, Ultima as the antagonist seems to fall into those immaterial types, that are more like personifications of natural forces.
They're typically godlike in nature but have a less emotional resonance, with respect to their motives. I can see why some didn't walk away a fan.

 

[Danjin44]

From my impression, Ultima as the antagonist seems to fall into those immaterial types, that are more like personifications of natural forces.
They're typically godlike in nature but have a less emotional resonance, with respect to their motives. I can see why some didn't walk away a fan.

Ultima is same as Zanza from Xenoblade they are both detached from humanity they believe they can do what they want with their own creation.

Also it’s not like Ultima came out of no where, this guy has pulling strings from early games, now that I’m playing for second time Ultima influence has been pretty clear.

 

[mortal]

Ultima is same as Zanza from Xenoblade they are both detached from humanity they believe they can do what they want with their own creation.

Also it’s not like Ultima came out of no where, this guy has pulling strings from early games, now that I’m playing for second time Ultima influence has been pretty clear.

It's not so much that Ultima didn't have influence, it was fairly obvious he did. It's that antagonists like that don't typically emotionally resonate as much as the ones that retain some of their humanity or feel justified when committing evil.
It's just harder to relate to a god than it is to a person if there isn't some well-crafted writing to provide that impact.