Not sure if its ok to post in open, but will use tags, but we know by now that Leviathan is not in the game, however there are signs of a mother crystal that you never visit judding out of the sea, which is no doubt where it would have been. Looks like it might have been cut for time.
Feels like they went NUTS with the production values during the first 30% of the game, and then realized "oh shit, we wont have enough budget for the whole game like this"
So the drop in terms of production values after the time skip was huge. The game gets more open and expanded in a lot of ways, but that razor sharp storytelling got a hit with MMO-like quests and dialogue with terrible lip synch.
Game is still very enjoyable, I'm liking it a lot, but you can tell that they were saving their budget for the big story beats and padding with the MMO quests
The game should have been more lean, then. I think that people would be fine without the apples sidequest, or the one to bring some fabrics to that lady
I think publishers feel they need to make games longer to justify the price. This game would have been better if a lot of the useless side quests and main quests were cut.
I'm at the 62% mark and I logged about 27 hours into the game, it just don't make sense for this game to be this long. I would have dropped it but the icon fights are what's keeping me from doing that, I want to see how it all ends also.
Things I would have liked done better or hope to see in FFXVII:
1. Make the maps more like FFXII, where everything is actually connected, albeit through zones. The wide-linear approach is fine but having areas actually connect would do a world of difference in making it feel bigger.
2. Day and night cycle with dynamic weather conditions. Sort of the way FFXI (yes the online game) handles it.
3. Rare enemies / enemy types that appear under certain conditions (like I mentioned in #2). Example: If it's raining, Water Elementals appear, Night time has bats, undead, Day time has birds, etc.
4. Dungeons / caves / small hideaways / encampments in the explorable areas. This game should have had something to that extent and I was surprised that it did not. No I do not consider the main missions as "dungeons".
5. Elemental affinities. This is a no-brainer. It would have elevated the combat more naturally if you are forced to acclimate to elemental defenses and weaknesses.
The title of the book at the end if Final Fantasy. Only two people were around to witness that line. One is definitely dead, the other was left up to player interpretation on his fate, but I think it's pretty clear Clive lived.
The title of the book at the end if Final Fantasy. Only two people were around to witness that line. One is definitely dead, the other was left up to player interpretation on his fate, but I think it's pretty clear Clive lived.
It just stumps me that this is what people consider a good game now...you could cut so much padding and have a better game imo..I just don't get it.
I understand taste is subjective but I feel like I'm getting further and further removed from mainstream AAA games like this.
I guess I'm glad others are enjoying it, but I just don't understand it personally.
I mean don't get me wrong...I'm kind of enjoying my time with it. I want to play it for the awesome spectacle. I guess I just don't line up with what I think the review score should be.
Sure. The only reason to even talk about it on here is to get reactions from others.
This is kind of a derail so I'll drop it, but the only issue is when people freak out about any dissident opinion and try and aggressively smear you or accuse you of lying or whatever else. Happened to me countless times on a ton of games, and it's literally never once worked or made me change my mind. This also happens on overdrive before a game is released as well. I'm okay with hearing everyone's opinions, and that's the main thing I usually enjoy in a discussion forum.
Talk to Vivianne, look at the Map, you can see that this was the location of Drake's Eye. The Crystal was destroyed before the start of the game (When Previous Phoenix and Previous Shiva were around), it's also where Jill is from.
Man...if you ever thought cutscenes in Metal Gear Solid were long....this shit takes the cake. I dont normally skip cutscenes, but I've definitely done it at least 7-8 times, maybe even a dozen...
Edit: as someone else say, it couldnt have done without most of the bloat. Its been ok so far, but its not really clicking. Ill beat it for sure though...just could uave been a $35 purchase for me.
For anyone new visiting the thread and just purchasing the game, do yourself a favor, if you want this to be a 9/10 experience the only sidequests you should play are around the first time you enter Sanbreque(where you meet the Dame) and the Hunt board. I'm near the end of the game and every other sidequest has reminded me of this game's sidequests:
I know what you're thinking... 'Why compare these two games?' It's because SAO: Fatal Bullet had pretty cool gameplay and a pretty decent main story, but it was bogged down by slice of life-style sidequests and moments where characters would just talk and talk and talk...about nothing really important. It was the first game that came to mind for me, the more I played FF16's sidequests. I found myself sitting here wondering why they took 5-10 minutes to explain a guy needing an apple or explain how another guy needed some black sand. Don't let that happen to you when playing this game.
I think the main storyline in FF16 is incredible and should be experienced nearly without interruption. You'll have a more streamlined experience and a much better time, including potentially more difficult boss fights since you're not over leveling yourself.
I know what you're thinking... 'Why compare these two games?' It's because SAO: Fatal Bullet had pretty cool gameplay and a pretty decent main story, but it was bogged down by slice of life-style sidequests and moments where characters would just talk and talk and talk...about nothing really important. It was the first game that came to mind for me, the more I played FF16's sidequests. I found myself sitting here wondering why they took 5-10 minutes to explain a guy needing an apple or explain how another guy needed some black sand. Don't let that happen to you when playing this game.
Except that Fatal Bullet per it's story takes place inside a MMO world so the bad sidequests make sense. In FFXVI's case it suffers from having too much FFXIV in it's DNA and suffers a little because of it.
For anyone new visiting the thread and just purchasing the game, do yourself a favor, if you want this to be a 9/10 experience the only sidequests you should play are around the first time you enter Sanbreque(where you meet the Dame) and the Hunt board. I'm near the end of the game and every other sidequest has reminded me of this game's sidequests:
I know what you're thinking... 'Why compare these two games?' It's because SAO: Fatal Bullet had pretty cool gameplay and a pretty decent main story, but it was bogged down by slice of life-style sidequests and moments where characters would just talk and talk and talk...about nothing really important. It was the first game that came to mind for me, the more I played FF16's sidequests. I found myself sitting here wondering why they took 5-10 minutes to explain a guy needing an apple or explain how another guy needed some black sand. Don't let that happen to you when playing this game.
I think the main storyline in FF16 is incredible and should be experienced nearly without interruption. You'll have a more streamlined experience and a much better time, including potentially more difficult boss fights since you're not over leveling yourself.
Man...if you ever thought cutscenes in Metal Gear Solid were long....this shit takes the cake. I dont normally skip cutscenes, but I've definitely done it at least 7-8 times, maybe even a dozen...
Except that Fatal Bullet per it's story takes place inside a MMO world so the bad sidequests make sense. In FFXVI's case it suffers from having too much FFXIV in it's DNA and suffers a little because of it.
I guess that can be sort of an excuse for Fatal Bullet. However, I don't know of any MMO with sidequests that constantly ends or begins with discussing the relationship and romance aspects of it's main characters to the point where it's nauseating. I stopped caring about Kirito and his harem of women a few hours into the game, and they managed to stretch out that awkwardness for the entire experience.
I guess that can be sort of an excuse for Fatal Bullet. However, I don't know of any MMO with sidequests that constantly ends or begins with discussing the relationship and romance aspects of it's main characters to the point where it's nauseating. I stopped caring about Kirito and his harem of women a few hours into the game, and they managed to stretch out that awkwardness for the entire experience.
MGS4 was worse with it's cutscenes. I played through that game multiple times back in the day, and the cutscene/gameplay ratio was obscene. You could tell Hideo Kojima really just wanted to be a long movie. The first two chapters are the only ones with large gameplay sections. After that it becomes a full fledged movie with itty bitty sections of gameplay and boss fights.
And it's a shame because there was cool stuff in that game. The gameplay was interesting, the world and setting were interesting, the lore was...alright enough, and the main story motivation wasn't half bad. It's a good B game(that I took a chance on based on a recommendation here) and it can feel like a C or D level title due to those meaningless stretched out relationship and romance moments.
Also, I don't dislike romance or relationship stuff in games, but it seems like a ton of game designers and game writers simply don't know how to write either and their attempts at both are usually severely lacking, laughable, or middle of the road at best. Even FF16 has an issue with this:
Jill and Clive should have already been in a relationship after the 5 year time skip. 2 people who have strong feelings for each other wouldn't not act on them for 5 years. 5 years is a long time. 5 years
All it takes is for these studios to hire romance writers, or (if they can afford it) romance movie directors, as consultants to take a big red marker to everything and make things feel a bit more engaging.
There's lots I'm enjoying about this game and I'm deffo going to see it out to the end but I just think it has some huge flaws that shouldn't be ignored.
And it's a shame because there was cool stuff in that game. The gameplay was interesting, the world and setting were interesting, the lore was...alright enough, and the main story motivation wasn't half bad. It's a good B game(that I took a chance on based on a recommendation here) and it can feel like a C or D level title due to those meaningless stretched out relationship and romance moments.
Also, I don't dislike romance or relationship stuff in games, but it seems like a ton of game designers and game writers simply don't know how to write either and their attempts at both are usually severely lacking, laughable, or middle of the road at best. Even FF16 has an issue with this:
Jill and Clive should have already been in a relationship after the 5 year time skip. 2 people who have strong feelings for each other wouldn't not act on them for 5 years. 5 years is a long time. 5 years
All it takes is for these studios to hire romance writers, or (if they can afford it) romance movie directors, as consultants to take a big red marker to everything and make things feel a bit more engaging.
The Clive/Jill romance was very well written once it took off beginning with that beach scene. I hear you regarding whether or not it should've happened earlier, but severe trauma can be a real bitch. Clive lost his family and home in one night, and spent 13 years a slave. Jill went through the same thing, and likely more given she's a woman. They simply weren't ready.
I think they did a great job with the romantic elements in this game. One of franchise best imo.
It just stumps me that this is what people consider a good game now...you could cut so much padding and have a better game imo..I just don't get it.
I understand taste is subjective but I feel like I'm getting further and further removed from mainstream AAA games like this.
I guess I'm glad others are enjoying it, but I just don't understand it personally.
I mean don't get me wrong...I'm kind of enjoying my time with it. I want to play it for the awesome spectacle. I guess I just don't line up with what I think the review score should be.
This is an 'issue' not with FFXVI in particular but with most RPGs ,even the ones i enjoy most i always end up thinking "this game would have been better if they cut 10 to 20 hours"
Its by design,for better or worse, curiously when i look into fan communities i notice they actually demand MORE hours,and more filler content for them pacing is rarely an issue in these types of games(more value for their money i guess)
I prefer shorter,but replayable games with engaging mechanics and tighter pacing,but can enjoy a slow jrpg as well if its fun and inmersive(as long as they don't pass 50 hour mark )
FF16's problem is that the XIV writers they pulled from XIV suck. Not sure what happened to their output after Shadowbringers. Endwalker and FFXVI kinda have the same problem with pacing issues(more prominent in Endwalker) and high highs and low lows.
FF16 needed Matsuno to oversee things since I feel the likes of FF Tactics and Vagrant Story were plenty more engaging in overall story progression. BUT they also had good writers years ago and they gone.
The time skip for FF16's romance doesn't really help flesh out the characters. Seems like the Clive/Jill had a very late start due to the flat writing style the scenario writers have. They probably needed lots more screen time. Needs way more show and tell.
If I were to compare BERSERK I'd say the romance thing between several characters is more fleshed out then it is in FFXVI.
FF16 needed Matsuno to oversee things since I feel the likes of FF Tactics and Vagrant Story were plenty more engaging in overall story progression. BUT they also had good writers years ago and they gone.
The time skip for FF16's romance doesn't really help flesh out the characters. Seems like the Clive/Jill had a very late start due to the flat writing style the scenario writers have. They probably needed lots more screen time. Needs way more show and tell.
If I were to compare BERSERK I'd say the romance thing between several characters is more fleshed out then it is in FFXVI.
Not sure if its ok to post in open, but will use tags, but we know by now that Leviathan is not in the game, however there are signs of a mother crystal that you never visit judding out of the sea, which is no doubt where it would have been. Looks like it might have been cut for time.
I can't verify if this statement is true simply because I haven't played every FF game(including spin-offs). However I feel that from what I have played, Zidane and Garnet or Locke and Celes were better told romances. Regardless, the bar for FF16 to hurdle over is very low to the floor.
On a side note Madflavor
, I like to ask this question to any person defending a game constantly on this forum: Can you name 5 things you don't like about FF16?
I'm not doing this as a gotcha, it's more of a way for me to gain perspective on your viewpoints. Elden Ring was my GoTY last year but I could at least name 5 flaws. I feel like to be a big fan of anything, it also means recognizing the flaws in the works that you enjoy. If someone doesn't recognize any flaws, that means you're purposefully blinding yourself to them because all artistic pieces contains flaws, no matter how minor. That way you don't find yourself defending even the weakest aspects of a work of art.
Check the map with Vivianne, this was the location of Drake's Eye. (Jill's former home)
There used to be a crystal here before the events of the game. During the previous Generation of Phoenix and Shiva.
Beat the game last night, to include all the side quest and hunts. Story died off after Bahamut for me. The game peaked during the fight with Titan. Voice acting and graphics are spotty at times. In some environments, the graphics look current gen. However, there are quite a few area's where they could have spent a bit more time on.
8/10 game for me. If it wasn't for the almost seamless loading, I don't think I would have finished this game.
There's lots I'm enjoying about this game and I'm deffo going to see it out to the end but I just think it has some huge flaws that shouldn't be ignored.
And games like RDR 2, Witcher 3 and 90% of Bethesda games don’t have “huge” flaws? And yet you don’t have no problem with people calling those games 10/10 “masterpiece”.
For fuck sake RDR2 has busted wanted system with crappy controls and with “outdated” mission designs and yet people call that game greatest games ever created.
It just stumps me that this is what people consider a good game now...you could cut so much padding and have a better game imo..I just don't get it.
I understand taste is subjective but I feel like I'm getting further and further removed from mainstream AAA games like this.
I guess I'm glad others are enjoying it, but I just don't understand it personally.
I mean don't get me wrong...I'm kind of enjoying my time with it. I want to play it for the awesome spectacle. I guess I just don't line up with what I think the review score should be.
The game is sitting at 88 on metacritic. Curious on what you think this should average out at? It's a pretty fair score IMO. The game does have it's flaws:
- Lack of RPG elements. For example, we have a bunch of stats. However, almost every accessory made to boost a specific stat is useless.
- Outside of accessories. Huge miss on making weapons or any equipment unique to tailor to a specific build or play style.
- Side quest.....
The combat is pretty amazing here. IMO, the S Rank hunts should have been the default difficulty for bosses (However, I would imagine most people would have quit if this was the case.).
I can't verify if this statement is true simply because I haven't played every FF game(including spin-offs). However I feel that from what I have played, Zidane and Garnet or Locke and Celes were better told romances. Regardless, the bar for FF16 to hurdle over is very low to the floor.
On a side note Madflavor
, I like to ask this question to any person defending a game constantly on this forum: Can you name 5 things you don't like about FF16?
I'm not doing this as a gotcha, it's more of a way for me to gain perspective on your viewpoints. Elden Ring was my GoTY last year but I could at least name 5 flaws. I feel like to be a big fan of anything, it also means recognizing the flaws in the works that you enjoy. If someone doesn't recognize any flaws, that means you're purposefully blinding yourself to them because all artistic pieces contains flaws, no matter how minor. That way you don't find yourself defending even the weakest aspects of a work of art.
I'll answer, the game is my GOTY but I have some problems with it
- The economy sucks
- The crafting sucks (ive talked about this more in depth)
- No elemental combat is a big big wasted opportunity
- In order to get the full picture of the story you have to complete some sidequests but there's no way to discern them from other menial ones (not talking about the + sign ones)
- Some characters (Barnabas mostly) could've done with a lot more fleshing out.
i ll wait for Ultimania difficult patch for NG+ the challenge is too good to be locked on arcade mode.
look at this shit, one attack and 80% of health is gone, 1 potion and 1 high potion, you really need to have mastered combat to have a chance.
I m trying this fight and i can tell that my level of frustration is on the same level as Margit, there is no mid boss fight checkpoint, if u die u have to start over.
And games like RDR 2, Witcher 3 and 90% of Bethesda games don’t have “huge” flaws? And yet you don’t have no problem with people calling those games 10/10 “masterpiece”.
For fuck sake RDR2 has busted wanted system with crappy controls and with “outdated” mission designs and yet people call that game greatest games ever created.
100% of games are, there are no game without flaw, heck even Tears of Kingdom and Elden Ring even my personal favourite Sekiro has flaws but that doesnt stop me from enjoying those games.
Dunno about 13 but 15 was definitely praised to high heaven by a lotta people and reviewers. It's the honeymoon phase with a big franchise they've been looking forward to. Many people won't accept the wait was for nothing. I've seen this on many games. Denial is the first stage.
I can't verify if this statement is true simply because I haven't played every FF game(including spin-offs). However I feel that from what I have played, Zidane and Garnet or Locke and Celes were better told romances. Regardless, the bar for FF16 to hurdle over is very low to the floor.
On a side note Madflavor
, I like to ask this question to any person defending a game constantly on this forum: Can you name 5 things you don't like about FF16?
I'm not doing this as a gotcha, it's more of a way for me to gain perspective on your viewpoints. Elden Ring was my GoTY last year but I could at least name 5 flaws. I feel like to be a big fan of anything, it also means recognizing the flaws in the works that you enjoy. If someone doesn't recognize any flaws, that means you're purposefully blinding yourself to them because all artistic pieces contains flaws, no matter how minor. That way you don't find yourself defending even the weakest aspects of a work of art.
I wrote down my personal review of the game earlier in this thread that lists the things I liked and didn't like. My thoughts remain unchanged but you can read about it here:
5. Cloud and Tifa (iconic but lacks any real payoff)
4. Cecil and Rosa (pretty vanilla, but that's mostly due to the technical limitations at the time)
3. Yuna and Tidus (beautiful young love, great scenes, X-2 may have ruined it though)
1. Clive and Jill (Beautifully and maturely written. Their romance scenes are incredibly well done. Lack of payoff with ambiguous ending left a sour taste though.)
1. Zidane and Garnet (well written, charming, has a satisfying fairy tale end to it)
I can't decide between the Top 2, so I have them both at #1. At least for now.
There are 7/10 or 8/10 games that I personally enjoyed or found more memorable than games I'd rate a 9/10 or even 10/10. For example The Last of Us Part 2 was the best game that came out in 2020. But I enjoyed FFVII:R and Ghosts of Tsushima a lot more. Even though I would say TLOU2 technically is just a better crafted video game than those two, it didn't provide me with as much fun and memorable moments as it did with the other two.
I wrote down my personal review of the game earlier in this thread that lists the things I liked and didn't like. My thoughts remain unchanged but you can read about it here:
5. Cloud and Tifa (iconic but lacks any real payoff)
4. Cecil and Rosa (pretty vanilla, but that's mostly due to the technical limitations at the time)
3. Yuna and Tidus (beautiful young love, great scenes, X-2 may have ruined it though)
1. Clive and Jill (Beautifully and maturely written. Their romance scenes are incredibly well done. Lack of payoff with ambiguous ending left a sour taste though.)
1. Zidane and Garnet (well written, charming, has a satisfying fairy tale end to it)
I can't decide between the Top 2, so I have them both at #1. At least for now.
I wrote down my personal review of the game earlier in this thread that lists the things I liked and didn't like. My thoughts remain unchanged but you can read about it here:
5. Cloud and Tifa (iconic but lacks any real payoff)
4. Cecil and Rosa (pretty vanilla, but that's mostly due to the technical limitations at the time)
3. Yuna and Tidus (beautiful young love, great scenes, X-2 may have ruined it though)
1. Clive and Jill (Beautifully and maturely written. Their romance scenes are incredibly well done. Lack of payoff with ambiguous ending left a sour taste though.)
1. Zidane and Garnet (well written, charming, has a satisfying fairy tale end to it)
I can't decide between the Top 2, so I have them both at #1. At least for now.
Can't argue with your list, other then I truly don't remember FFIX anymore to remember that romance but they had the table set for the best most romantic ending with this game with Clive/Jill and just bombed it at the end for me. Ending alone really really brought my overall enjoyment of the game down. I hate ambiguous endings in games, this isn't a 22 minute TV show with a full season where you can do this stuff, getting that after almost 70 hours doing everything in the game is just terrible IMO.
Otherwise, you've got good taste with that list. In my head cannon Cloud/Tifa are top 3 even without any real rationale for them to be there
There's lots I'm enjoying about this game and I'm deffo going to see it out to the end but I just think it has some huge flaws that shouldn't be ignored.
i wish that we had some kind of option that let we choose what time of the day we wanna play the maps, imagine the desert one at night with a full moon light.
i still think that "pink" filter somehow kills the game art direction
On a side note MadflavorMadflavor
, I like to ask this question to any person defending a game constantly on this forum: Can you name 5 things you don't like about FF16?
1. I don't like the resolution/FSR 1implementation
2. Performance is not ideal
3. By no means do I think the game is easy or a button masher, but difficulty option should be available on first playthrough
4. Story takes an extended vacation before getting back on track again. Some portion of main quest should have been side quests
5. I did not like Ultima's dialogue
- Level 50
- Saved right before entering what I am very sure is the final dungeon
- The performance in Quality mode takes a shit in the Kingdom of Waloed fields, some segments and fights feel like they're dropping to low 20s, if not the high 10s.
- All the available Hunts complete, did not unlock any trophy so I'm guessing there will be exclusive ones in NG+
- Svarog was a bitch
I liked the game a lot as I was playing it, but definitely noting there were some valid issues. But overall really really enjoyed it.
Now that Im about week removed from finishing it, I think Im actually liking it even more. As I think back on it and Im kinda out of the heat of the moment.... the things I didnt like just feel more like minor annoyances than major issues for me (but totally get how it could be a turn off for someone). But the stuff that was epic and hard hitting is still melting my face thinking about it days later.
I dont know if I've actually played a game that came together for me in more epic fashion than some of the big fights in this game. Just all of it together. The actual fights, visually what was happening on screen, the outcomes for the characters, the soundtrack. My god all of it just slapping tits off.
Like I mentioned there are for sure some valid complaints to be laid here. Performance sucks, choosing between 720p or 30fps is gross. The early game side quests were mega lame (they do get a little better). Please dont send me to 4 locations Ive already been to 10 times to hunt down some mundane trash mob Im going to one shot so I can collect beans for your soup. Some of these side quests I wanted to reject on principle. "No. No I will not march across the continent to talk to a butcher for you. We are doing big shit here. Why would you ask me that, you're fired get out of the hideout."
But at the end of the day the characters, main story, atmosphere, combat, and just epic feeling of what was going far outweighed the gripes for me.