Support NeoGAF

[jorgejjvr]

Might depend on the quality of your TV and the HDR settings within the actual PS5 system settings. I thought HDR looked like ass too but my buddy clued me in that because my TV screen so quality, I should lower the brightness in the PS5 settings because when I'd actually follow the brightness prompt, the image would be washed out cause of the natural brightness quality of the TV screen. Basically, the HDR brightness was way too high.

Once I tweaked the various HDR settings, I finally saw the value in HDR. Still not completely sold on it but it's definitely made a massive improvement for certain games.

Yeah that's my issue with HDR, in some games it's a banger, in some it's totally washed out. Miles Morales and horizon forbidden West look stunning, then I went to this game and I was like what is this lol

 

[Danjin44]

If people say the combat us "shallow" then they are straight up fucking blind.

 

[fart town usa]

I definitely appreciate the occasional side quest that rewards you with more potent healing effects, increased inventory, etc.

 

[fart town usa]

If people say the combat us "shallow" then they are straight up fucking blind.

So YouTubers want clicks cause a game just released and is on the radar, doesn't mean a thing. There are no builds in this game, it's all the same outcome because all you have to do is deal damage and buy whatever weapon/armor is available. If you do all the side quests there's nothing to miss, you'll always have the best gear and enough AP for whatever you want to upgrade, you can reset at any time too so it's like whatever. None of these things are inherently bad but there is nothing deep about it, just variations of flashy attacks. The game is really approachable and that's fine and I applaud that for newcomers and oldheads alike, it's nice not having to give the systems much thought. There's no getting around that the game is pretty mindless and is designed so that you'll always progress. Again, this isn't inherently a bad thing but let's stop acting like the game is something that it's not.

 

[Danjin44]

There are no builds in this game, it's all the same outcome because all you have to do is deal damage and buy whatever weapon/armor is available.

Are you fucking kidding me! I’m playing through NG+ and when you max out ability you can put on any abilities on any Eikon slot you want, so I’m consistently mixing and matching between different abilities and using accessories that will power up those Eikon powers for my play style, I’m doing more character building in this game than I ever did game like DQXI.

Im sorry you didn’t like the game but straight up fucking idiotic calling the combat shallow.

 

[Lokaum D+]

The parallelisms this game has with game of thrones...are a bit too much.

The scene showing why Dion goes insane before going full rampage bahamut...

Spoiler

Kingslayer, bruh.

I mean the buildup is amazing, but if you watched Game of Thrones it goes from an amazing to a "Yeah, right, I got that reference".

sometimes i think 99% of people forget that GoT is not the only medieval fantasy thing out there ( or ppl are just too young ), we have music, old movies, comics, novels, I know they said they like GoT, but c'mon, oh he said "kingslayer" "GoT reference", give me a break.

any time soon someone ll say that Dragons Dogma is based on Dragonheart.

 

[fallingdove]

I love how a common theme in this thread is that if anyone calls out issues with XVI, some of you have to go and drag the rest of the series. Maybe defend XVI on its own merits rather than dump on other games that are decades old.

Plenty of people have defended XVI on its own merits. There is just a lot of hand waving from naysayers followed by comparisons to other titles.

I also think it’s ok to compare XVI to previous FF titles. It’s not dragging the rest of the series, it’s drawing attention to the fact that there is no such thing as a perfect video game despite what nostalgia has tried to convince you of. This is as much of a final fantasy JRPG as any other mainline game in the series. It’s different, and that’s ok.

 

[adamsapple]

sometimes i think 99% of people forget that GoT is not the only medieval fantasy thing out there ( or ppl are just too young ), we have music, old movies, comics, novels, I know they said they like GoT, but c'mon, oh he said "kingslayer" "GoT reference", give me a break.

any time soon someone ll say that Dragons Dogma is based on Dragonheart.

Yoshi P specifically made the staff working on the game watch Game of Thrones for inspiration, so the GoT comparisons are not unwarranted and somewhat deliberate by design.

"We wanted to create something that really resonated with a lot of people. And when we saw how Game of Thrones, and before that the Song of Ice and Fire series, has really resonated with players, we knew that this was something that we wanted to do as well. When we first started creating the game, we had our core team of about 30 members very early on buy the blu-ray boxset of Game of Thrones and required everyone to watch it, because we wanted this type of feel."

In an act of auteur megalomania, Yoshi-P made the Final Fantasy 16 core team buy and watch Game of Thrones

Have any plans this evening? Now you do.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[fart town usa]

Are you fucking kidding me! I’m playing through NG+ and when you max out ability you can put on any abilities on any Eikon slot you want, so I’m consistently mixing and matching between different abilities and using accessories that will power up those Eikon powers for my play style, I’m doing more character building in this game than I ever did game like DQXI.

Im sorry you didn’t like the game but straight up fucking idiotic calling the combat shallow.

I don't dislike the game and I can't take you serious, I'm playing the game, I know what the ability system is like and how enemies respond to attacks. I have no idea what DQXI has to do with the ability system in XVI.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Yoshi P specifically made the staff working on the game watch Game of Thrones for inspiration, so the GoT comparisons are not unwarranted and somewhat deliberate by design.

In an act of auteur megalomania, Yoshi-P made the Final Fantasy 16 core team buy and watch Game of Thrones

Have any plans this evening? Now you do.

www.pcgamer.com

so, even after all these years making games, all those medieval FF out there, we ll say that every medieval reference that we get from this game ll be linked automaticaly to GoT just caus Yoshi P made the team watch a show, so Bahamut is clearly inspired by Rhaegal or Viserion Ok got it.

thank God he didnt make them watch the last seasson.

 

[GigaBowser]

Wills I like this if I likes Bayonetta and DMC on hard modes?

 

[fart town usa]

Plenty of people have defended XVI on its own merits. There is just a lot of hand waving from naysayers followed by comparisons to other titles.

I also think it’s ok to compare XVI to previous FF titles. It’s not dragging the rest of the series, it’s drawing attention to the fact that there is no such thing as a perfect video game despite what nostalgia has tried to convince you of. This is as much of a final fantasy JRPG as any other mainline game in the series. It’s different, and that’s ok.

I have no problem with XVI being different. All I've done in the thread is talk about what the game has within it. I've brought up older non-FF games just to give some perspective on how dated the gameplay is in XVI, it's not like I bring up older titles because I think they are GOAT-tier games, it's because XVI is filled to the brim with 10-20 year old mechanics and maybe some people forgot what PS3/360 games were actually like at times. This is archaic stuff we're dealing with here in XVI, that should not be a controversial statement. It's not inherently a bad thing but that's what the game is and it's incredibly disingenuous to make all these leaps in logic to defend the shortcomings of XVI and try to drag other games down with it.

 

[Synless]

XVI does have some weird ass design choices at times that are dumb as fuck. That being said, I am close to the end it’s it’s been pretty damn great overall.

 

[adamsapple]

so, even after all these years making games, all those medieval FF out there, we ll say that every medieval reference that we get from this game ll be linked automaticaly to GoT just caus Yoshi P made the team watch a show, so Bahamut is clearly inspired by Rhaegal or Viserion Ok got it.

thank God he didnt make them watch the last seasson.

Your sarcasm is noted, no one is saying GoT invented medieval fantasy, but when the creators themselves cite it as one of the big inspirations, people finding similarities to the scenarios in the show should not be surprising.

 

[fart town usa]

The massive waterfall in the Dhalmekian Republic is freaking gorgeous.

Some of the environments in this game are absolutely stunning. I really like the areas with ancient tech, has a cool Panzer Dragoon vibe with the bright whites.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

sometimes i think 99% of people forget that GoT is not the only medieval fantasy thing out there ( or ppl are just too young ), we have music, old movies, comics, novels, I know they said they like GoT, but c'mon, oh he said "kingslayer" "GoT reference", give me a break.

any time soon someone ll say that Dragons Dogma is based on Dragonheart.

Don't they have kingslayer at FFXII too?

 

[xellos2099alpha]

So basically the same as plenty of games? I could say the same thing of Hogwarts and ToTK....or basically any open world.



I'm stunned that you manage to think the flaws FFXVI has are exclusive to FFXVI. I don't see any terrible gameplay mechanics. The combat is superb. Is it easy? Yes. Are most ARPGs these days easy (I can literally name all of them, Ass Creed, Witcher, God of War, etc).

Sounds like you're just being overly harsh for some reaosn, or maybe you don't play ANY of the games I mentioned. The combat is better than any of those other titles so to say its got terrible mechanics is flat out false.

So I think it's more that you're greatly exaggerating the flaws this game has. I recognize its flaws, but it by no means has made me think of any of the thoughts you've placed in that post.

If you don't play AAA games, what do you consider a GOTY title? Sounds like you are out of touch. I can see how people would claim FF16 is a 7 or 8 if they REALLY dislike the low points the game has, but if you don't mind them I can easily see how someone would also consider it their personal GOTY or 9.5/10 title as well. To claim it's some 3/10 terrible abysmal game like you paint is just nonsense to me.

Best to give it up. They can be as stubborn as Emet.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Don't they have kingslayer at FFXII too?

i dont think so, its clearly a GoT reference

 

[xellos2099alpha]

i dont think so, its clearly a GoT reference

Nope, Basch, The Kingslayer

 

[Lokaum D+]

Nope, Basch, The Kingslayer

its was sarcasm

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

i dont think so, its clearly a GoT reference

Kingslayer is just a term for one who kills a king, it can be found throughout fantasy.

Edit: nevermind, I see your post above that one now.

 

[Umbasaborne]

After doing the miserable letting off steam quest, this game has almost completely lost me. In fact, i think ff7 remake shits on this game from great heights. In ff7 remake, I looked forward to each character interaction because the characters are worth caring about. In this game I roll my eyes anytime they force you into a main story fetch quest in an attempt to flesh out the boring characters. This game has incredible highs, but the lows are just so damn low. Honestly…..I think I enjoyed ffxv more than this as well. That game has a shit ton of problems and also tries for force you to care about boring side characters, but at least the world was interesting. The enviroments in xvi vary in visual quality and are empty. At least xv had big cool monsters roaming the world, all we get here is trash mobs of chocobos goblins, wasps, and spiders. Occasionally some soldiers.

 

[Rea]

After doing the miserable letting off steam quest, this game has almost completely lost me. In fact, i think ff7 remake shits on this game from great heights. In ff7 remake, I looked forward to each character interaction because the characters are worth caring about. In this game I roll my eyes anytime they force you into a main story fetch quest in an attempt to flesh out the boring characters. This game has incredible highs, but the lows are just so damn low. Honestly…..I think I enjoyed ffxv more than this as well. That game has a shit ton of problems and also tries for force you to care about boring side characters, but at least the world was interesting. The enviroments in xvi vary in visual quality and are empty. At least xv had big cool monsters roaming the world, all we get here is trash mobs of chocobos goblins, wasps, and spiders. Occasionally some soldiers.

Thought I was the only one, glad to hear there's someone who feel the same.

This is my WORST Final Fantasy game ever in terms of story and characters and world building. The mandatory fetch quests are infuriating, its a waste of my time. Seriously, I fall asleep while doing the quest. The combat seems ok at first but after awhile it seems repetitive and the flashy eye melting Eikons skills are annoying. Some of the skills block the view and my entire screen is flashing, I can't see the enemy. Wish it has party system, job system and more RPG elements.

 

[Shake Your Rump]

I’ve avoided this thread for the last 20 pages due to spoilers and all the negativity. Well, I now agree with all that negativity. I haven’t finished the game, but I’m pretty far in. This game is just plain boring.

The prologue was awesome. Up until Garuda was pretty good. Since then, it all feels the same. I spend hours walking around, watching dialogue, and killing enemies that don’t even seem to fight back. Then there is a boss battle that requires attention, but is still easy, and I use the same tactics every time. Repeat this over and over and over.

I don’t mind linearity. I don’t mind long cutscenes or dialogue. However, this game has nothing else to offer in gameplay. The battles feel meaningless. Leveling and items feel meaningless. The side-quests are awful and immersion-breaking. This is essentially an overly long movie where you have to constantly push buttons.

 

[Northeastmonk]

I’ve avoided this thread for the last 20 pages due to spoilers and all the negativity. Well, I now agree with all that negativity. I haven’t finished the game, but I’m pretty far in. This game is just plain boring.

The prologue was awesome. Up until Garuda was pretty good. Since then, it all feels the same. I spend hours walking around, watching dialogue, and killing enemies that don’t even seem to fight back. Then there is a boss battle that requires attention, but is still easy, and I use the same tactics every time. Repeat this over and over and over.

I don’t mind linearity. I don’t mind long cutscenes or dialogue. However, this game has nothing else to offer in gameplay. The battles feel meaningless. Leveling and items feel meaningless. The side-quests are awful and immersion-breaking. This is essentially an overly long movie where you have to constantly push buttons.

I wasn’t impressed beyond the bosses. I don’t think it broke any ground in terms of being part of the long list of classic RPGs. It’s not going to win any awards if you ask me, but I could be wrong. XVI has cool combat mechanics, but a lot of it is short lived. The combo videos all look the same. People mixing up the same moves on a short list of enemy types. The story was decent and also boring at times. I’m ready for Final Fantasy XVII. I’m gonna wait for a possible Final Fantasy Tactics Remaster and VII Remake Part II. The game will probably get uninstalled too. I hated it, but I think Xenogears was a better RPG. Not even wanting to compare genres here.

If this is the developers best work. I’d say the golden era of JRPGs is long gone. The dev team should have stopped watching Game of Thrones for a while and played some of Square’s earlier works.

 

[fallingdove]

I have no problem with XVI being different. All I've done in the thread is talk about what the game has within it. I've brought up older non-FF games just to give some perspective on how dated the gameplay is in XVI, it's not like I bring up older titles because I think they are GOAT-tier games, it's because XVI is filled to the brim with 10-20 year old mechanics and maybe some people forgot what PS3/360 games were actually like at times. This is archaic stuff we're dealing with here in XVI, that should not be a controversial statement. It's not inherently a bad thing but that's what the game is and it's incredibly disingenuous to make all these leaps in logic to defend the shortcomings of XVI and try to drag other games down with it.

Lol. What are these 10-20 year old mechanics that are so painful for you to experience?

We get that you don’t like the game (we are all appreciative that you continue to press forward so that you can enlighten us with your deep analysis) but to suggest that XVI is somehow unique in that it utilizes mechanics present in PS2 games is moronic. Every game on the market has 10-20 year old mechanics. This isn’t a new thing.

Developers take what they learned making other games and refine them for other games. Go back and play Dragons Dogma, Metal Gear Rising or DMC 1-3. There are plenty of XVI refinements that I appreciate because of the experience Square developers accumulated by working on those games.

Nobody is arguing that the early to mid game side quests aren’t weak and that the default difficulty isn’t easy, but plenty of people have highlighted elements of this game that are top tier comparatively to other Final Fantasy games or other 2023 contemporaries.

 

[Madflavor]

I wasn’t impressed beyond the bosses. I don’t think it broke any ground in terms of being part of the long list of classic RPGs. It’s not going to win any awards if you ask me, but I could be wrong. XVI has cool combat mechanics, but a lot of it is short lived. The combo videos all look the same. People mixing up the same moves on a short list of enemy types. The story was decent and also boring at times. I’m ready for Final Fantasy XVII. I’m gonna wait for a possible Final Fantasy Tactics Remaster and VII Remake Part II. The game will probably get uninstalled too. I hated it, but I think Xenogears was a better RPG. Not even wanting to compare genres here.

If this is the developers best work. I’d say the golden era of JRPGs is long gone. The dev team should have stopped watching Game of Thrones for a while and played some of Square’s earlier works.

It'll be nominated for:

Best Performance
Best Soundtrack
Best Narrative
Best Action

It has a serious shot at winning a couple of those.

 

[Komatsu]

Some of the environments in this game are absolutely stunning. I really like the areas with ancient tech, has a cool Panzer Dragoon vibe with the bright whites.

Glad I'm not the only one who picked up on the Panzer Dragoon vibes that surround most ancient/Fallen areas

 

[xellos2099alpha]

It seems like we got a lot of Hermes/Fandaniel type here if you got ym drift.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Nothing out of the ordinary for him. His love for Benedikta was established more than once within the first 10 hours of the game.

I think my issue was, when he was shown at first and up to rhe first fight I thought he was a formidable enemy. A titan of a man. Respected, strong willed and menacing.

Then after one encounter he is on his knees shuffling around like a man baby, doing the Japanese man on knees being pathetic and begging for power and...I dunno it knocked me for 6, complete switch of character to what the game had demonstrated previously.

Totally get the Benedikta part, that was blatantly obvious it was pretty much his only form of character building outside if how they showed him as his own personal character in cutscenes and dialogue. Just not the rest and nor suddenly being a man baby.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

100% and 62 hours and I'm done. The cinematics are easily the best I've ever seen in a game. Characters were mostly done really well. Dion was majestic, and I wish he had more of a part. Clive is the best FF character ever, and who doesn't love Torgal? Joshua was fantastic as well.

Wasn't a perfect game by any means, and as an RPG it was very basic and casual. As an action RPG it was fantastic. Battle system was simple but effective and fun without being too difficult. Lots of options for players with different skill levels, which is a good thing no matter what some might say.

In my humble opinion, the only real glaring fault was the poor implementation of the side quests. There were times where I was really into the story, and the side missions just bogged down the experience, but in the end most of the side stories did a very good job of rewarding the player by showing the people of the land and their struggles, a very good way of world building.

8/10 for me and one of the best games of the year so far.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Are you fucking kidding me! I’m playing through NG+ and when you max out ability you can put on any abilities on any Eikon slot you want, so I’m consistently mixing and matching between different abilities and using accessories that will power up those Eikon powers for my play style, I’m doing more character building in this game than I ever did game like DQXI.

Im sorry you didn’t like the game but straight up fucking idiotic calling the combat shallow.

Can I do this on standard new game as I'm literally sat just randomly mashing any old attack against enemies that hardly fight back and would love to liven up the combat a bit.

I have flourishes when I can be bothered of chaining, launching enemies doing air juggles and finished with the ground slam, but you just don't need to do it.

I'd love to be able to do the eikon set up like you've said but I shouldn't have to wait until new game plus...fuck that. So is there a way for me to do it in new game?

 

[ChiefDada]

Wow game looks so much better with HDR off

Seriously, what is your TV (Oled?) and settings? You're missing out on the best implementation of HDR.

100% and 62 hours and I'm done. The cinematics are easily the best I've ever seen in a game. Characters were mostly done really well. Dion was majestic, and I wish he had more of a part. Clive is easily the best FF character, and who doesn't love Torgal? Joshua was fantastic as well.

They were all great, but no love for Uncle Byron!?

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

They were all great, but no love for Uncle Byron!?

Yeah, he was a jolly old fellow, my boy!

 

[ChiefDada]

Can I do this on standard new game as I'm literally sat just randomly mashing any old attack against enemies that hardly fight back and would love to liven up the combat a bit.

You absolutely can. I did it during my first playthrough and it was fun.

Some of these comments (not necessarily you, DD) I'm reading sound like people who have second hand experience or just rely on hearsay. The combat system is really f***ing deep. I would categorize as easy to learn, difficult to master (I probably never will).

 

[Roufianos]

Wills I like this if I likes Bayonetta and DMC on hard modes?

I doubt it, game is super easy. It's very flashy and responsive but if you're mainly looking for a challenge, I'd wait until they hopefully patch an option to start on hard mode. This is the easiest game I've play not called Pokémon. Story and soundtrack are awesome though and the boss battles are mind-blowingly good, but due to spectacle, not combat depth.

 

[DenchDeckard]

You absolutely can. I did it during my first playthrough and it was fun.

Some of these comments (not necessarily you, DD) I'm reading sound like people who have second hand experience or just rely on hearsay. The combat system is really f***ing deep. I would categorize as easy to learn, difficult to master (I probably never will).

I can clearly see you could have a lot of fun with it. Its just not nearly that necessary so far.

I do enjoy when a smaller mini boss style enemy turns up so I can get into the meat and potato's of stagger. I usually hammer them with the lightning circle move to get 9 orbs on them then cycle through the eikons doing the supers which can feel really nice at times.

I just wish the game was harder as this would definitely drive engagement up. When fighting some bosses or the hunts and I have to pay attention I really get into it and have fun.

I still do have issues with how lively the screen effects can be with particles. Often I can't see shit hahaha but thats probably my old people eyes .... lol

 

[Nankatsu]

sometimes i think 99% of people forget that GoT is not the only medieval fantasy thing out there ( or ppl are just too young ), we have music, old movies, comics, novels, I know they said they like GoT, but c'mon, oh he said "kingslayer" "GoT reference", give me a break.

any time soon someone ll say that Dragons Dogma is based on Dragonheart.

Fair point, but you can't deny the game's narrative has many similarities with Game of Thrones narrative.

Not that is a bad thing though.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Fair point, but you can't deny the game's narrative has many similarities with Game of Thrones narrative.

Not that is a bad thing though.

Its an easy take to make as GOT is so popular, but I really do feel it takes inspriation from a lot of medieval and classical work with an FF twist (the story is very FF and Japanese) to make it feel like its own thing. The first 2 hours of the game has a few GOT esque moments, but after that it very much feels like a Japanese medieval fantasy. Heck some of the character dialogue made me feel I was watching Jason and the Argonauts from 1963 or I, Claudius from the 70s lol. The writing is really excellent and up there with FF12 for me. In some ways similar but feels less like a Shakespeare play as that did in places. It's just classical writing and a brutal medieval world done well and I think that's where the GOT comparison ends for me.

 

[Neolombax]

Nearing the end of the game, I hope. If I could add one more criticism, it would be the low enemy variety.

Spoiler: spoiler

And no, adding the Akashic variety doesnt count. In fact, its kinda lazy

.

 

[fart town usa]

• Lol. What are these 10-20 year old mechanics that are so painful for you to experience?

• The world is empty, there's nothing to interact with and the materials you find are useless for the most part. You can't even open doors or break boxes.
• The NPC interactions are truly miserable. The stiff animations and dead eyes, the mouth animation doesn't match with words being spoken. It's absolute trash and the biggest thing that drags this game down. It is completely unacceptable the amount of time you have to stand there and listen to absolute empty banter. World building it is not. Anyone defending this stuff is someone I can't take serious.
• The jump button is useless outside of combat and there's no run button.
• No verticality, just makes the lack of exploration stand out more. You are constantly stuck to the ground and with how quickly you can navigate the "open" areas, it seems like everyone is fighting over a piece of land roughly the size of Rhode Island.
• The cities, there's nothing to do in them; Merchant who sells the same stuff as the previous merchant, an empty pub to walk into. There's like a few dozen NPCs at most and none of them say anything of note, everything feels so small and irrelevant.
• Combat is completely mindless because of how easy the game is. The game is designed so that you'll always progress, it's really approachable for newcomers and people who generally suck at games like DMC and Bayonetta (people such as myself).
• "Dungeons" involve running from large room to large room, seeing a cutscene that introduces enemies, it's the same thing over and over.
• There was an "immersion" trailer showcasing the resistant triggers. The triggers are used for opening large doors; Hit X then hold R2, or when you're riding your Chocobo. Immersion, that's a pathetic use of the dualsense features.
• The "EPIC" Eikon fights are cutscenes with the occasional QTE and nothing but perspective shift. It's just spectacle and stuff that was viewed as style over substance back in the PS3/360 generation.
• The NPCs look on par or worse the something like White Knight Chronicles.

Builds are irrelevant in the standard Action mode because there are no builds, combat is based on maximizing damage output, nothing else needs to be taken into account. You buy the 1 piece of gear that's available to equip and upgrade the abilities that you want to upgrade. It's completely mindless. You attack, dodge, wait for the cool down meter and then attack and dodge some more. Certain enemies are more susceptible to specific elements but I have yet to see any kind of immune status for enemies. Granted, I'm roughly 67% done with the game so there's still time for the game to throw in a new combat mechanic. But that's why I say builds are non-existent. There's nothing that you as a player need to take into account, it's all the same. Dodge attacks, deal damage. Occasionally a scrub enemy will cast protect and all you do is spam the enemy with your pew-pew magic attack.

None of the above means the game sucks. It means the game is underwhelming and dated as can be. More impressive games, or equally as dated games get roasted on a regular basis on this forum by the same people getting big mad that FFXVI is being called out by some of us. FFXVI is incredibly mediocre and I'll keep saying it as long as I'm playing the game, put me on ignore if you don't want to hear it.

We get that you don’t like the game (we are all appreciative that you continue to press forward so that you can enlighten us with your deep analysis) but to suggest that XVI is somehow unique in that it utilizes mechanics present in PS2 games is moronic. Every game on the market has 10-20 year old mechanics. This isn’t a new thing.

Developers take what they learned making other games and refine them for other games. Go back and play Dragons Dogma, Metal Gear Rising or DMC 1-3. There are plenty of XVI refinements that I appreciate because of the experience Square developers accumulated by working on those games.

Nobody is arguing that the early to mid game side quests aren’t weak and that the default difficulty isn’t easy, but plenty of people have highlighted elements of this game that are top tier comparatively to other Final Fantasy games or other 2023 contemporaries.

I have played Dragons Dogma recently and they aren't worth comparing.

XVI is empty by any standard and abuses the worst aspects of dated gameplay. I'm not gonna browse the thread and entertain white knighting a game simply because it's the new thing. It's been out for 2 weeks, it's fair game to have an actual discussion on the game systems and what the game offers up.

 

[SpokkX]

Even after the end ?

Yes

 

[Shake Your Rump]

As an action RPG it was fantastic.

I’d really like this to be elaborated. How is this “fantastic”? On paper, maybe, with the skills and parries, perfect dodges, and so on. In practice, it is monotonous, repetitive, and the additional mechanics are superfluous. The only game off the top of my head that is worse is FF15.

 

[hyperbertha]

Can you not with the "How dare you attack me" bullshit? You've been shitting on the game's story and characters in the OT multiple times now, but can't stand it when people with an opposing opinion call out your argument. I can't stand people with a big mouth but then act like a victim when people call them out.

"Big mouth". Lol me attacking this game seems worse than insulting your mother for you. And the hilarious 'you didn't UnDERsTaNd the Plot' argument. Go touch some grass instead of whiteknighting an evidently mediocre game of thrones/ Avengers rip off clearly made to appeal to the lowest common denominator to maximize profits.

To be fair, I think this is an extremely common failing in criticism these days, both professional and fan-sourced.

My view is that you need a fundamental position from which your judgements are rooted; specifically do you value "good" as being that which aligns with your personal taste, or that which is observably effective in achieving its goals.

I came to this realization weirdly enough not through art, but from watching a lot of combat sports both real and "worked" in a pro-wrestling sense. This might sound nutty, but I don't think its arguable that the reason these things have mass appeal is that they address really universal touchstones in terms of giving the audience a dramatic spectacle. I think high-minded judgements and arguments are important, but there a few absolute fundamentals that take priority.

First thing; and this I take from the carny arts of pro wrestling: You have to get the players in the story "over". The audience need to be invested in the fight; you want them to root for the hero and against the villain. This isn't so simple as just making them black versus white opposites, the villain needs to have some sort of attractive or at least admirable quality in spite of their overt villainy. Similarly the hero needs a defining flaw that they must overcome. Real basic stuff, but its what most of us respond to as human beings. The chinks in their armour are what humanizes both sides of the conflict.





The writing in FFXVI sticks to the fundamentals and the general response shows that people respond to it. People like Clive as a protagonist because the game -even down to the most drudgy fetch quests- constantly shows him in an admirable light. Its not subtle or particularly nuanced, but the repetition and consistency carries it off.

Are you trying to say something deep with this post? This game sacrifices fundamentals for spectacle. It's ONLY spectacle. Made for Avengers fanboys. From the one dimensional final boss to the one dimensional protagonist to the forgettable side characters. And nice try trying to spin me as some minority when half the people here and on reddit agree the story nosedives in the second half. Tell me. How is Clive relatable? His only true inner conflict is abandoned in the first act.

 

[hyperbertha]

The parallelisms this game has with game of thrones...are a bit too much.

The scene showing why Dion goes insane before going full rampage bahamut...

Spoiler

Kingslayer, bruh.

I mean the buildup is amazing, but if you watched Game of Thrones it goes from an amazing to a "Yeah, right, I got that reference".

That's what you got from it? How about dion going danaerys and burning down kings landing with his dragon? , all because he got mad. Season 8 levels if writing right here.

End game spoilers: or how about the game pulling a night king and the wights with its ultima/ akashic plotline? They are literally the same. They even look the same. And now Jon snow *cough* Clive with his dire wolf will save the day.

 

[hyperbertha]

so, even after all these years making games, all those medieval FF out there, we ll say that every medieval reference that we get from this game ll be linked automaticaly to GoT just caus Yoshi P made the team watch a show, so Bahamut is clearly inspired by Rhaegal or Viserion Ok got it.

thank God he didnt make them watch the last seasson.

He very clearly did. Much of this game plays out like season 8.

 

[linko9]

Torgal is so badly implemented gameplay wise. The "optimal" way to use him is to spam ravage constantly, which plays one of two or three voice lines over and over, which will actually play at the same time as Clive's other lines if he has any. Since the damage is so low, hardly anyone will do this— except speedrunners, which just has the effect of making speedruns really annoying to watch as I found out today. Cure is useless as well. And worst of all he goes all super saiyan ONCE, and only in a cutscene, and then that's never relevant again in the entire game. Whole thing is entirely half-assed. Shadow's dog is still best FF dog by far.

 

[Nankatsu]

That's what you got from it? How about dion going danaerys and burning down kings landing with his dragon? , all because he got mad. Season 8 levels if writing right here.

You're not wrong there, but I honestly didn't make that connection, maybe because when I look at Dion I mainly see Jamie (even though the whole neglected son, son of a whore points him more towards Tyrion.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I’d really like this to be elaborated. How is this “fantastic”? On paper, maybe, with the skills and parries, perfect dodges, and so on. In practice, it is monotonous, repetitive, and the additional mechanics are superfluous. The only game off the top of my head that is worse is FF15.

First of all, I tip my hat to a Beastie Boys fan. Paul's Boutique is their best album imo.

FFXVI excels in action, and it does enough to allow you to build your eikonic powers any way you see fit. And in my opinion, you can make different builds for different play styles. I personally went for the power build by putting all the powerful skills to the triangle button, and the quick hit/quick regen skills to the box button. I was able to get the "over 50k" trophy quite early doing this. I was able to have the power skills ready, the overdrive bars full, then unleash the havok of geruda, phoenix and ramuh in full force.

 

[Nankatsu]

First of all, I tip my hat to a Beastie Boys fan. Paul's Boutique is their best album imo.

FFXVI excels in action, and it does enough to allow you to build your eikonic powers any way you see fit. And in my opinion, you can make different builds for different play styles. I personally went for the power build by putting all the powerful skills to the triangle button, and the quick hit/quick regen skills to the box button. I was able to get the "over 50k" trophy quite early doing this. I was able to have the power skills ready, the overdrive bars full, then unleash the havok of geruda, phoenix and ramuh in full force.

Did the exact same thing too, Square for the fast eikon powers, and triangle for the super ones.

Btw, I just recently unlocked Bahamut's Eikon powers and they do very little damage.

Are they target for fallen enemies, is that it? Since Bahamut is light and fallen is darkness?