Support NeoGAF

[ShadyAcshuns]

Did the exact same thing too, Square for the fast eikon powers, and triangle for the super ones.

Btw, I just recently unlocked Bahamut's Eikon powers and they do very little damage.

Are they target for fallen enemies, is that it? Since Bahamut is light and fallen is darkness?

Yeah, Bahamut's power skill is just too slow to use effectively, at least without being powered up. But after they are, you can mix and match them in the skill menu, if you like. His skills are good for up close crowd control, though, but I didn't use them very often. I think I ended up always using Phoenix, and later on Shiva, her powers are amazing. Then I stuck with Odin to finish my build out.

 

[Aenima]

Torgal is so badly implemented gameplay wise. The "optimal" way to use him is to spam ravage constantly, which plays one of two or three voice lines over and over, which will actually play at the same time as Clive's other lines if he has any. Since the damage is so low, hardly anyone will do this— except speedrunners, which just has the effect of making speedruns really annoying to watch as I found out today. Cure is useless as well. And worst of all he goes all super saiyan ONCE, and only in a cutscene, and then that's never relevant again in the entire game. Whole thing is entirely half-assed. Shadow's dog is still best FF dog by far.

I never used ravage with Torgal. For small enemies i did a 4 hit combo with Clive, by the time you land the 4th hit tell Torgal to do a Sic attack, if timmed right Torgal will turn orange and spin against the enemy launching the enemy in the air. Followed by clive phoenix shift for a 3 combo aerial attack and by the time clive does the 3th strike and send the enemy to the ground order torgal again for another Sic.

He dosent do much damage but makes fighting small enemies more fun. Hes pretty much there to help you extend your combos.

 

[Lokaum D+]

He very clearly did. Much of this game plays out like season 8.

 

[fart town usa]

Torgal is so badly implemented gameplay wise. The "optimal" way to use him is to spam ravage constantly, which plays one of two or three voice lines over and over, which will actually play at the same time as Clive's other lines if he has any. Since the damage is so low, hardly anyone will do this— except speedrunners, which just has the effect of making speedruns really annoying to watch as I found out today. Cure is useless as well. And worst of all he goes all super saiyan ONCE, and only in a cutscene, and then that's never relevant again in the entire game. Whole thing is entirely half-assed. Shadow's dog is still best FF dog by far.

I spam ravage , I mentioned it in an earlier post but I use this weird claw technique to spam Torgal and I can still strafe and dodge. It's chaotic fun. I'm sure I could be more efficient but if anything, that'd make the game even easier which I don't necessarily want. I already feel OP, no reason to look into it further.

 

[hyperbertha]

You're not wrong there, but I honestly didn't make that connection, maybe because when I look at Dion I mainly see Jamie (even though the whole neglected son, son of a whore points him more towards Tyrion.

There is another character fusion in this game

Catalyn and cersei fused into Anabella. She hates jon snow just like catalyn, uses her husbands and is a scheming murderous wench, caring only about her sons' position in power.
But she doesn't have the things that make her feel human like catalyn or cersei, which is one the great failings of this game's writing. Most characters are either really good or really bad, except benedikta. That is one character I liked, too bad they kill her off early.
They tried to do some nuance with kupka, but with them never having shown kupka's relationship with benedikta as anything more than a fling, his tantrum really just fell extremely flat. He looked more like an immature idiot that gets easily emotional and manipulated. We have no reason to relate with his 'pain'.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Yeah, Bahamut's power skill is just too slow to use effectively, at least without being powered up. But after they are, you can mix and match them in the skill menu, if you like. His skills are good for up close crowd control, though, but I didn't use them very often. I think I ended up always using Phoenix, and later on Shiva, her powers are amazing. Then I stuck with Odin to finish my build out.

Nankatsu

Bahamuts powers is a must have if u want to cause real damage to enemies.

Wings of Light is a great source of damage for single and crowd, u can build up WoL faster by doing precision dodges, a lvl4 ll destroy lesser enemies and big boys health bars.

Impulse is great for stagger and damage too, but u need to wait until the orbs go "gold" to explode them.

Gigaflare is a damage monster, if u pair up with Lighning Rod it ll do a lot of Damage.

3/5 Bahamuts skills are in my NG+ build, they are really good once u understand how it works.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I just got Bahamut’s abilities

How far am I?

The game seems to give you way too little AP so far. I’m having great difficulty leveling up these Eikon skills I want to mix and match

Does AP become more generous?

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I just got Bahamut’s abilities

How far am I?

The game seems to give you way too little AP so far. I’m having great difficulty leveling up these Eikon skills I want to mix and match

Does AP become more generous?

I found it to be pretty available for what I needed - since the game doesn't punish you for unlearning, just remove applied AP from skills you aren't using. Standard playthrough with all quests done won't give you enough AP to upgrade/master everything in one go without a lot of grinding.

 

[Zheph]

I just got Bahamut’s abilities

How far am I?

The game seems to give you way too little AP so far. I’m having great difficulty leveling up these Eikon skills I want to mix and match

Does AP become more generous?

Just respec my man and dedicate the points where you want

Regarding how far you are... 60%?

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I just got Bahamut’s abilities

How far am I?

The game seems to give you way too little AP so far. I’m having great difficulty leveling up these Eikon skills I want to mix and match

Does AP become more generous?

Not in my experience. I used the pre order bonus accessory that gave 20% more AP for regular enemies, and it still wasn't enough. You can re-spec at any time, I think, so if you're not using something, just re-allocate the points as needed. Not exactly sure, but I reckon Bahamut's powers come in at around the middle of the game?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Just respec my man and dedicate the points where you want

Regarding how far you are... 60%?

Was hoping to master all the abilities but I guess that will be difficult without NG+

 

[Zheph]

Was hoping to master all the abilities but I guess that will be difficult without NG+

Ah yes I don't think that's possible even with the preorder bonus

 

[fallingdove]

• The world is empty, there's nothing to interact with and the materials you find are useless for the most part. You can't even open doors or break boxes.
• The NPC interactions are truly miserable. The stiff animations and dead eyes, the mouth animation doesn't match with words being spoken. It's absolute trash and the biggest thing that drags this game down. It is completely unacceptable the amount of time you have to stand there and listen to absolute empty banter. World building it is not. Anyone defending this stuff is someone I can't take serious.
• The jump button is useless outside of combat and there's no run button.
• No verticality, just makes the lack of exploration stand out more. You are constantly stuck to the ground and with how quickly you can navigate the "open" areas, it seems like everyone is fighting over a piece of land roughly the size of Rhode Island.
• The cities, there's nothing to do in them; Merchant who sells the same stuff as the previous merchant, an empty pub to walk into. There's like a few dozen NPCs at most and none of them say anything of note, everything feels so small and irrelevant.
• Combat is completely mindless because of how easy the game is. The game is designed so that you'll always progress, it's really approachable for newcomers and people who generally suck at games like DMC and Bayonetta (people such as myself).
• "Dungeons" involve running from large room to large room, seeing a cutscene that introduces enemies, it's the same thing over and over.
• There was an "immersion" trailer showcasing the resistant triggers. The triggers are used for opening large doors; Hit X then hold R2, or when you're riding your Chocobo. Immersion, that's a pathetic use of the dualsense features.
• The "EPIC" Eikon fights are cutscenes with the occasional QTE and nothing but perspective shift. It's just spectacle and stuff that was viewed as style over substance back in the PS3/360 generation.
• The NPCs look on par or worse the something like White Knight Chronicles.

Builds are irrelevant in the standard Action mode because there are no builds, combat is based on maximizing damage output, nothing else needs to be taken into account. You buy the 1 piece of gear that's available to equip and upgrade the abilities that you want to upgrade. It's completely mindless. You attack, dodge, wait for the cool down meter and then attack and dodge some more. Certain enemies are more susceptible to specific elements but I have yet to see any kind of immune status for enemies. Granted, I'm roughly 67% done with the game so there's still time for the game to throw in a new combat mechanic. But that's why I say builds are non-existent. There's nothing that you as a player need to take into account, it's all the same. Dodge attacks, deal damage. Occasionally a scrub enemy will cast protect and all you do is spam the enemy with your pew-pew magic attack.

None of the above means the game sucks. It means the game is underwhelming and dated as can be. More impressive games, or equally as dated games get roasted on a regular basis on this forum by the same people getting big mad that FFXVI is being called out by some of us. FFXVI is incredibly mediocre and I'll keep saying it as long as I'm playing the game, put me on ignore if you don't want to hear it.


I have played Dragons Dogma recently and they aren't worth comparing.

XVI is empty by any standard and abuses the worst aspects of dated gameplay. I'm not gonna browse the thread and entertain white knighting a game simply because it's the new thing. It's been out for 2 weeks, it's fair game to have an actual discussion on the game systems and what the game offers up.

Again, nobody is defending that NPC dialogue isn’t mostly throw away, that side quests don’t suck, that the default difficulty isn’t easy. Roast away.

But your posts have effectively been —> Why is this horse not a zebra? I don’t like horses, they are so last season. Come on everybody, help me beat this horse… (I do want to keep riding it though so leave me my saddle) for 60 pages.

I don’t know that the intent for XVI was ever to feature rich exploration. Hell, the game intentionally removes exploration at every turn by prioritizing fast travel, leveraging a hub for the most important systems and NPC interactions, and limiting the world to a single giant landmass (that is more than your typical DMC/Bayonetta/MGSR by the way). XVI is a traversal-optional character action game — heavy on story elements, light on RPG elements. That’s it.

Maybe for some that mixture fails to reconcile with what they see as a Final Fantasy game. As a long time Final Fantasy fan and having recently replayed 1-12, I find it refreshing. I have already played the most JRPG versions of the series.

Also - you don’t have to wait for new game plus to mix and match Eikon abilities.

 

[Madflavor]

I think my issue was, when he was shown at first and up to rhe first fight I thought he was a formidable enemy. A titan of a man. Respected, strong willed and menacing.

He is, but pussy will drive any man crazy.

Then after one encounter he is on his knees shuffling around like a man baby, doing the Japanese man on knees being pathetic and begging for power and...I dunno it knocked me for 6, complete switch of character to what the game had demonstrated previously.

Totally get the Benedikta part, that was blatantly obvious it was pretty much his only form of character building outside if how they showed him as his own personal character in cutscenes and dialogue. Just not the rest and nor suddenly being a man baby.

This is a guy who was not only the dominant of Titan, but also happens to be a particularly very large man. He probably lived his whole life walking over people, pushing them around, and always getting what he wants. You see this in his first scene, the way he manhandles that dude during the meeting, physically pushing him into his seat and blowing smoke into his face.

Then he gets both of his hands chopped off.

He throws a fit, tries to maintain his strong demeanor, but the fact is the fight was taken out of him. His hands were gone, and he was bested by the guy who killed his lover. Now he can't even so much as pick up a fork to eat his dinner. Emotionally compromised he was easily manipulated by Slepnir and Ultima. Him throwing a fit and being pathetic made perfect sense to me, because Hugo never learned how to lose. Then when he finally did, he lost to the man he hates the most and in a way that rendered him useless.

 

[fallingdove]

Torgal is so badly implemented gameplay wise. The "optimal" way to use him is to spam ravage constantly, which plays one of two or three voice lines over and over, which will actually play at the same time as Clive's other lines if he has any. Since the damage is so low, hardly anyone will do this— except speedrunners, which just has the effect of making speedruns really annoying to watch as I found out today. Cure is useless as well. And worst of all he goes all super saiyan ONCE, and only in a cutscene, and then that's never relevant again in the entire game. Whole thing is entirely half-assed. Shadow's dog is still best FF dog by far.

Agreed. Interceptor > Angelo >>>>>> Torgal. I honestly think that Torgal was added last minute-ish to appease players intent on being able to control/semi-control another party member.

I doubt the team would implement this but it would be cool to have access to the other party members you encounter throughout the game. Even if they acted like Clive skins, keeping the Clive animations and attacks but allowing me to “play as someone else” from time to time.

 

[Madflavor]

I just got Bahamut’s abilities

How far am I?

The game seems to give you way too little AP so far. I’m having great difficulty leveling up these Eikon skills I want to mix and match

Does AP become more generous?

You're at the 75 - 80% mark.

 

[fart town usa]

Again, nobody is defending that NPC dialogue isn’t mostly throw away, that side quests don’t suck, that the default difficulty isn’t easy. Roast away.

But your posts have effectively been —> Why is this horse not a zebra? I don’t like horses, they are so last season. Come on everybody, help me beat this horse… (I do want to keep riding it though so leave me my saddle) for 60 pages.

I don’t know that the intent for XVI was ever to feature rich exploration. Hell, the game intentionally removes exploration at every turn by prioritizing fast travel, leveraging a hub for the most important systems and NPC interactions, and limiting the world to a single giant landmass (that is more than your typical DMC/Bayonetta/MGSR by the way). XVI is a traversal-optional character action game — heavy on story elements, light on RPG elements. That’s it.

Maybe for some that mixture fails to reconcile with what they see as a Final Fantasy game. As a long time Final Fantasy fan and having recently replayed 1-12, I find it refreshing. I have already played the most JRPG versions of the series.

Also - you don’t have to wait for new game plus to mix and match Eikon abilities.

It still doesn't change the fact that the world is completely empty. It doesn't need to be a massive open world, just give the player something to do besides run around an empty environment with the occasional 2 gil drop or 3 pinches of magicked ash, same enemies too and I generally don't care if enemies are limited but the game is like 70+ hours long for.goodness sake. None of this stuff is controversial, I'm describing the game as what it is. I'm fine with linear games with questionable production values for side stuff, just make it entertaining. This game is fun as hell during boss fights but those are so few and far between, I cannot ignore the 60+ hours of absolute slog.

As for the bolded stuff in your reply, that is such a BS argument to deflect from the game that XVI is. I've never once correlated the shortcomings of XVI to previous FF games, I don't care that XVI is different. All my comments deal directly with the game itself and when I've brought up older non-FF titles, it's just to give some perspective on how dated XVI is and how it stacks up to games that people label mediocre.

XVI gets no pass because it's a PS5 exclusive and a flashy new entry into a beloved franchise. It's honestly embarrassing to see so many people attack others in a personal manner over a game that is so glaringly flawed.

Seriously, some of you need to go back and play some older games cause some of the stuff people are rolling their eyes at is on par or better than XVI. If you're smitten with XVI, there's a treasure trove of past games to dive into and get acquainted with. Lords of Shadow is at the top of that list. It's similar to the game loop of XVI but it's not a slog and much more engaging in terms of level design and combat.

Edit- FFXVI is a "traversal optional character action game"

Traversal optional? Like WTF are you even talking about.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Seriously, some of you need to go back and play some older games cause some of the stuff people are rolling their eyes at is on par or better than XVI. If you're smitten with XVI, there's a treasure trove of past games to dive into and get acquainted with. Lords of Shadow is at the top of that list. It's similar to the game loop of XVI but it's not a slog and much more engaging in terms of level design and combat.

All the old FF games have “empty overworlds”

You’re just making stuff up at this point

 

[fart town usa]

All the old FF games have “empty overworlds”

You’re just making stuff up at this point

You're bringing up stuff that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You're bringing up stuff that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

It’s not an open world game and you can ignore the side content

 

[hyperbertha]

I think my issue was, when he was shown at first and up to rhe first fight I thought he was a formidable enemy. A titan of a man. Respected, strong willed and menacing.

Then after one encounter he is on his knees shuffling around like a man baby, doing the Japanese man on knees being pathetic and begging for power and...I dunno it knocked me for 6, complete switch of character to what the game had demonstrated previously.

Totally get the Benedikta part, that was blatantly obvious it was pretty much his only form of character building outside if how they showed him as his own personal character in cutscenes and dialogue. Just not the rest and nor suddenly being a man baby.

Did you truly think they established his love? Like I said in a previous post, all we see is a sleazy greeting that establishes they are in a pretty recent fling. It's impossible to take his breakdown seriously. It's the definition of telling not showing. Compare this with cloud's emotional state after aeris dies. We have a reason to take it seriously.
Now some might argue that since he is a side character, there is no reason to develop him as much as main characters, but then don't complain when people compare this to actual good works of fiction and feel underwhelmed. besides, it's not as if the main characters are any better any way. Jill and Clive remains laughably bland all the way through.

 

[fart town usa]

It’s not an open world game and you can ignore the side content

Ok, but the world that is there is completely empty still. Why would I want to skip the side content? I bought the game at launch and want to experience what Square worked years on.

Telling people to skip the side stuff while getting mad at me for critiquing the game is truly absurd.

 

[saintjules]

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Ok, but the world that is there is completely empty still. Why would I want to skip the side content? I bought the game at launch and want to experience what Square worked years on.

Telling people to skip the side stuff while getting mad at me for critiquing the game is truly absurd.

How is it completely empty?

There’s towns filled with NPCs and the world has enemies like you’d expect

 

[Auto_aim1]

I think we have been spoiled by a lot of open world games. Like compared to RDR2 the maps of FFXVI are just a joke. But compared to previous FF games like 10,12, and 13, I don't think there has been a downgrade. What I do have a problem with is that most of the side quests are basic and tiresome and do not belong in this game.

 

[fart town usa]

How is it completely empty?

There’s towns filled with NPCs and the world has enemies like you’d expect

Because there's nothing to do in it, not even anything to climb and enjoy the scenery from above.

You collect either 2 gil or 10 gil, items that can be traded for gil, or crafting materials for non-existent craftable items. Merchants sell you potions and buffs. If you do all the side stuff you will always have access to the best gear. There is nothing that requires exploration or thought. I wish the OST stuff wasn't so damn expensive because that's a feature I'd like to actually try out more often.

You run from checkpoint to checkpoint, hit the occasional dead end and turn around. Or my favorite, a ledge that you can clearly access at some point in the game, but Clive doesn't know how to climb and even with the chocobo jump, you still can't access the area because the game doesn't want you to. I'm supposed to believe that Clive can't pass a bridge because some Merchant and a crate are blocking his path? What happens when I can access the area? More emptiness with the occasional 2 gil coin.

The game is Fonzie jumping the shark levels of dumb and there's no way around it. Boss fights are engaging enough to keep me chugging along but everything else is just so pathetic for a PS5 exclusive in 2023.

Edit- if the game was like 20 hours long, I wouldn't have much to complain about. The game expects you to sit through hours upon hours of shallow banter. The game constantly iterates things we already know when it comes to character motivations. It's like just get on with it, the plot established certain things in the prologue yet we're reminded every few hours that someone has bad health. I didn't know who Koji Fox was prior to the hype but I am not impressed.

 

[samoilaaa]

Because there's nothing to do in it, not even anything to climb and enjoy the scenery from above.

You collect either 2 gil or 10 gil, items that can be traded for gil, or crafting materials for non-existent craftable items. Merchants sell you potions and buffs. If you do all the side stuff you will always have access to the best gear. There is nothing that requires exploration or thought. I wish the OST stuff wasn't so damn expensive because that's a feature I'd like to actually try out more often.

You run from checkpoint to checkpoint, hit the occasional dead end and turn around. Or my favorite, a ledge that you can clearly access at some point in the game, but Clive doesn't know how to climb and even with the chocobo jump, you still can't access the area because the game doesn't want you to. I'm supposed to believe that Clive can't pass a bridge because some Merchant and a crate are blocking his path? What happens when I can access the area? More emptiness with the occasional 2 gil coin.

The game is Fonzie jumping the shark levels of dumb and there's no way around it. Boss fights are engaging enough to keep me chugging along but everything else is just so pathetic for a PS5 exclusive in 2023.

dont argue with these people they like the game so they will defend it forever , the story , combat and some landscapes are the strong points of the game but the world is a drag to explore , everything feels slow and worthless , like you said there is nothing meaningfull to do , deus ex mankind divided wasnt open world either but the world feels so much alive and you find meaningful stuff around every corner

 

[fallingdove]

It still doesn't change the fact that the world is completely empty. It doesn't need to be a massive open world, just give the player something to do besides run around an empty environment with the occasional 2 gil drop or 3 pinches of magicked ash, same enemies too and I generally don't care if enemies are limited but the game is like 70+ hours long for.goodness sake. None of this stuff is controversial, I'm describing the game as what it is. I'm fine with linear games with questionable production values for side stuff, just make it entertaining. This game is fun as hell during boss fights but those are so few and far between, I cannot ignore the 60+ hours of absolute slog.

As for the bolded stuff in your reply, that is such a BS argument to deflect from the game that XVI is. I've never once correlated the shortcomings of XVI to previous FF games, I don't care that XVI is different. All my comments deal directly with the game itself and when I've brought up older non-FF titles, it's just to give some perspective on how dated XVI is and how it stacks up to games that people label mediocre.

XVI gets no pass because it's a PS5 exclusive and a flashy new entry into a beloved franchise. It's honestly embarrassing to see so many people attack others in a personal manner over a game that is so glaringly flawed.

Seriously, some of you need to go back and play some older games cause some of the stuff people are rolling their eyes at is on par or better than XVI. If you're smitten with XVI, there's a treasure trove of past games to dive into and get acquainted with. Lords of Shadow is at the top of that list. It's similar to the game loop of XVI but it's not a slog and much more engaging in terms of level design and combat.

Edit- FFXVI is a "traversal optional character action game"

Traversal optional? Like WTF are you even talking about.

Like WTF are YOU talking about.

Optional as in you can almost entirely skip exploration and just play through the arena-based action levels, fast travel to basically every story quest in the game, etc.

If you skipped side quests, hunts, and chronoliths, you would barely even traverse the maps. It’s all optional and not central to the XVI experience.

Also - LOL at the Lords of Shadow recommendation. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised given the way you have described your familiarity with character action games and your approach to playing XVI.

 

[fart town usa]

Like WTF are YOU talking about.

Optional as in you can almost entirely skip exploration and just play through the arena-based action levels, fast travel to basically every story quest in the game, etc.

If you skipped side quests, hunts, and chronoliths, you would barely even traverse the maps. It’s all optional and not central to the XVI experience.

Also - LOL at the Lords of Shadow recommendation. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised given the way you have described your familiarity with character action games and your approach to playing XVI.

Imagine typing this out and thinking it's some kind of dunk.

Dude is getting mad at me and then advising people to skip out on the bulk of the game.

Lords of Shadow is a great game, your loss.

 

[Punished Miku]

Lords of Shadow is a great game, your loss.

My favorite Castlevania, easily.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Because there's nothing to do in it, not even anything to climb and enjoy the scenery from above.

You collect either 2 gil or 10 gil, items that can be traded for gil, or crafting materials for non-existent craftable items. Merchants sell you potions and buffs. If you do all the side stuff you will always have access to the best gear. There is nothing that requires exploration or thought. I wish the OST stuff wasn't so damn expensive because that's a feature I'd like to actually try out more often.

You run from checkpoint to checkpoint, hit the occasional dead end and turn around. Or my favorite, a ledge that you can clearly access at some point in the game, but Clive doesn't know how to climb and even with the chocobo jump, you still can't access the area because the game doesn't want you to. I'm supposed to believe that Clive can't pass a bridge because some Merchant and a crate are blocking his path? What happens when I can access the area? More emptiness with the occasional 2 gil coin.

The game is Fonzie jumping the shark levels of dumb and there's no way around it. Boss fights are engaging enough to keep me chugging along but everything else is just so pathetic for a PS5 exclusive in 2023.

Edit- if the game was like 20 hours long, I wouldn't have much to complain about. The game expects you to sit through hours upon hours of shallow banter. The game constantly iterates things we already know when it comes to character motivations. It's like just get on with it, the plot established certain things in the prologue yet we're reminded every few hours that someone has bad health. I didn't know who Koji Fox was prior to the hype but I am not impressed.

There’s nothing to do in 99% of the open world games out there

The towns serve as hubs for missions and where you can buy items

The world serves as a place to hunt

This isn’t some shocking revelation

 

[fart town usa]

My favorite Castlevania, easily.

Right on. Not my personal favorite but it's such a good game! Same people that made Metroid Dread (I think).

 

[Madflavor]

Relative to the rest of the series, FFXVI is not a downgrade with exploration.

But I think there's something to be said with the way FFXVI handles it's Story/Gameplay balance. FFXVI is VERY cutscene and dialogue heavy, and there are long segments of the game where story takes an MMO approach to it's quest design, and how the NPCs interact with each other. This can go on for long stretches. If the story has it's hooks in you, then that's great. But if it doesn't, or if you feel like your patience is being tested, and you need to go do some gameplay to shake things up, there's very little to do. Side Quests involve more dialogue. There's hardly any RPG mechanics, so you won't be spending time farming for mats, cooking, fishing, crafting, base building, or any of that. There's no optional caves/dungeons to discover. The only thing to do in towns is talk to NPCs and go to the Item store. And lastly there are Hunts, but there aren't many and the only way to unlock more is to push through the story. So when you break away from the Main Story, there's really not much to do and you find yourself just going right back to the story and pushing through.

This is what shines a light on the exploration and RPG elements of FFXVI, and this is also why I once said this is a game where your enjoyment really lives or dies by how much you enjoy the Story and Combat.

They should've had one or the other approach with this game imo:

• Severely cut down on the small time MMO style quests in the Main Story, shaving the length of the game down to 20 - 25 hours. If you want to be a Character Action game, just be a Character Action game. Get to your exciting moments a lot quicker. You can still have down time, but not down time that lasts 3-5 hours.
• If they wanted to keep the pacing of the story exactly the way it is, then they needed to add in a lot more RPG mechanics and Side Activities.

I liken Gameplay/Story to Cake. The gameplay is the cake, and the frosting is the Story. Many people agree the frosting of a cake is the best part. The problem is the frosting is just nothing but sugar, and if you eat too much of it, you start to get sick of it. That's where the cake part comes in, to balance out the palate. FFXVI is a game that is 80% Frosting and 20% Cake. For it's particular approach to storytelling and pacing, they needed to have more going on with it's gameplay to balance things out. A deeper crafting system, optional caves/dungeons to explore, mini-games, and maybe Base Building mechanics would've gone a long way.

You wanna be this:

Not this:

This is all coming from someone who loved the game btw.

 

[Punished Miku]

Right on. Not my personal favorite but it's such a good game! Same people that made Metroid Dread (I think).

Yep. It's honestly got better action combat than the old God of War games. It gets pretty challenging on harder difficulties having to avoid hits, frequently land precise counter blocks and carefully ration limited light / dark magic reserves. Extensive command list all hand illustrated in a gorgeous book UI, with illustrations for every character page, item, move, enemy. Fantastic voice acting and story. DMC style combat challenges and stage challenges encouraging replayability. Platforming and whip platforming. OST is legendary. Another game where I just ignored what everyone said. No one does dark Christian imagery like the Spanish. The castle in part 2 is the best Dracula castle as well.

 

[fart town usa]

There’s nothing to do in 99% of the open world games out there

The towns serve as hubs for missions and where you can buy items

The world serves as a place to hunt

This isn’t some shocking revelation

It's really a shame that you can't just point out aspects of the game that work well in the grand scheme of things. You gotta go and label 99% of games as "empty". Like what in the world dude

Also, it's not an open world game and I've never considered XVI to be open world.

I think it's safe to say that this chain of direct replies has reached it's conclusion.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It's really a shame that you can't just point out aspects of the game that work well in the grand scheme of things. You gotta go and label 99% of games as "empty". Like what in the world dude

Also, it's not an open world game and I've never considered XVI to be open world.

I think it's safe to say that this chain of direct replies has reached it's conclusion.

I have pointed them out repeatedly

Phenomenal combat, engaging story and cast, world class craftsmanship and production values, and a diverse and deep ability system. I’m not claiming it’s perfect, but what it’s good at it’s really good at. And those are what I am looking for in a FF game

Your complaints all boil down to nonsense, “there’s not a game here at all, it’s empty, there’s nothing to do”. Completely baseless

 

[fallingdove]

Imagine typing this out and thinking it's some kind of dunk.

Dude is getting mad at me and then advising people to skip out on the bulk of the game.

Lords of Shadow is a great game, your loss.

Ha - I’m not getting mad at anyone. Trying to understand your broken record syndrome more than anything.

Also you’re dunking on yourself by wasting time on side quests and wandering the world. Especially given how much you dislike them. Seems like a dumb thing to do.

I’ve played Lords of Shadow. There are much better ways to get a God of War fix.

 

[fart town usa]

Ha - I’m not getting mad at anyone. Trying to understand your broken record syndrome more than anything.

Also you’re dunking on yourself by wasting time on side quests and wandering the world. Especially given how adamant you are against them. Seems like a dumb thing to do.

I’ve played Lords of Shadow. There are much better ways to get a God of War fix.

Dude, please stop. I honestly don't want to get in a tit for tat with people. I've said my case and all I get is replies that attack other games that have nothing to do with what I'm talking about, personal insults, and whatever you're talking about which honestly does no favors to the game.

I'm playing the game as it is presented to me. I don't know what else I can do, I get access to an area, I explore it. I get access to side quests, I do them. I sit through 90% of the NPC cutscenes. I see a hunt, I hunt it. I can upgrade an item, I upgrade it. I haven't died once and I wreck fools like an OP machine but apparently I'm playing the game wrong because I say the combat is mindless. Like I'm experiencing the game in the way that Square intended, there's nothing else I can do but comment on what the game is asking me to do. I like the boss fights when you're actually engaged in the non-QTE aspects and the environments are simply gorgeous at times, everything else is just straight up mediocre and if a game asks you for 70+ hours of your time, it deserves to be examined for what it actually is.

You are getting upset that I'm critiquing the game and then telling me that the game is traversal optional and that I'm dunking on myself for playing the game.

"Traversal optional" . I honestly can't believe you said that.

Your neg on LOS didn't go unnoticed. Don't care, it's still your loss, LOS is a great game.

 

[Lokaum D+]

1 - Because there's nothing to do in it, not even anything to climb and enjoy the scenery from above.

You collect either 2 gil or 10 gil, items that can be traded for gil, or crafting materials for non-existent craftable items. Merchants sell you potions and buffs. If you do all the side stuff you will always have access to the best gear. There is nothing that requires exploration or thought. I wish the OST stuff wasn't so damn expensive because that's a feature I'd like to actually try out more often.

You run from checkpoint to checkpoint, hit the occasional dead end and turn around. Or my favorite, a ledge that you can clearly access at some point in the game, but Clive doesn't know how to climb and even with the chocobo jump, 2 - you still can't access the area because the game doesn't want you to. I'm supposed to believe that Clive can't pass a bridge because some Merchant and a crate are blocking his path? 3 - What happens when I can access the area? More emptiness with the occasional 2 gil coin.

4 - The game is Fonzie jumping the shark levels of dumb and there's no way around it. Boss fights are engaging enough to keep me chugging along but everything else is just so pathetic for a PS5 exclusive in 2023.

Edit- if the game was like 20 hours long, I wouldn't have much to complain about. The game expects you to sit through hours upon hours of shallow banter. The game constantly iterates things we already know when it comes to character motivations. It's like just get on with it, the plot established certain things in the prologue yet we're reminded every few hours that someone has bad health. I didn't know who Koji Fox was prior to the hype but I am not impressed.

1 - What FF games let u "free climb" and enjoy scenery from above ? i played all and cant name one that let u do this.

2 -Progression lock is in almost every FF game, even Horizon FW that is a full open world game ll lock u out from some regions until u reach some especifc point in the game.

3 - For someone that praises FFXIII a lot u sure complaing a lot about the emptiness of XVI maps, the only diferrence from XIII is that u auto loot trash insted of opening a random "chest orb". Gran Pulse is way more empty then any map in XVI.

4 - Jump action is used for combat, not for exploration, i think this is the first FF ever to let u freely jump or even jump, even if it useless for exploration

u have some good points when u talk about sidequest and crafting, but u sure have some shit ones.

Edit: this is for the "FF open world" people out there, FF was never "open world", even the old games where open regions, having a over world map dosnt make the games "open" it was just a limitation at the time, every single time that you want to explore a cave, a florest or city in any main line FF until 9 the game ll throw u in some linear place to "explore", Zelda BOTW and Elden Ring are true open world game and until this date only FFXV comes close to that.


the dungeons are seamless integrated to the world map, this is the only true open world FF that we have to date.

 

[hyperbertha]

I have pointed them out repeatedly

Phenomenal combat, engaging story and cast, world class craftsmanship and production values, and a diverse and deep ability system. I’m not claiming it’s perfect, but what it’s good at it’s really good at. And those are what I am looking for in a FF game

Your complaints all boil down to nonsense, “there’s not a game here at all, it’s empty, there’s nothing to do”. Completely baseless

I think besides the more subjective aspects like the story, which half here thinks is mediocre, but I can accept the other half that like it, and the spectacle, which many aren't impressed by, being already burned out on a million big budget shallow movies, but I can accept the people that are impressed, the only objective aspect you have to talk about are the quality of its missions and the combat.

Practically everybody here agrees the sidequests suck, and everybody here agrees the combat is piss easy. I'm sorry, but I don't see what point you have. There is no argument. The game is just mediocre through and through unless you like the story which many didn't.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Ha - I’m not getting mad at anyone. Trying to understand your broken record syndrome more than anything.

Also you’re dunking on yourself by wasting time on side quests and wandering the world. Especially given how much you dislike them. Seems like a dumb thing to do.

I’ve played Lords of Shadow. There are much better ways to get a God of War fix.

Come on, it’s an RPG. No RPGamer wants to run past a large amount of the game’s content and potentially miss out on stuff. No RPGamer wants to play through the game with a constant mindset of “is that quest I’m running past one of the few that has a good plot or some decent reward at the end?” or “is that conspicuous dead end one of the few that has something worth seeing?”

“If you don’t like it don’t do it” is a bullshit defense. Exploring and doing quests should feel fun and rewarding. Dialog should be snappy and interesting. Environments should exist to give you cool vistas to see, treasure to find, and unique monsters to find/battle.

If it fails to do that, it shouldn’t be in the game. “Either skip it and wonder what you’re missing, or do it and be bored out of your mind” is the dumbest fucking dilemma to put gamers in.

 

[fart town usa]

1 - What FF games let u "free climb" and enjoy scenery from above ? i played all and cant name one that let u do this.

2 -Progression lock is in almost every FF game, even Horizon FW that is a full open world game ll lock u out from some regions until u reach some especifc point in the game.

3 - For someone that praises FFXIII a lot u sure complaing a lot about the emptiness of XVI maps, the only diferrence from XIII is that u auto loot trash insted of opening a random "chest orb". Gran Pulse is way more empty then any map in XVI.

4 - Jump action is used for combat, not for exploration, i think this is the first FF ever to let u freely jump or even jump, even if it useless for exploration

u have some good points when u talk about sidequest and crafting, but u sure have some shit ones.

Yea, I like FFXIII but I'm also not gonna defend everything about it. The game has a lot of issues but I still really enjoy the game. You bringing it up makes you look like a damn kid cause I haven't critiqued XVI based on whatever XIII did.

Also, people need to stop bringing other FF games into things I'm talking about. I've said repeatedly that I don't care that XVI is different from other FF games and I'm not even approaching the game like that. I'm approaching XVI as the game that it is and it ain't much. I'm not even that big of a FF fan. I largely stopped caring about the series in middle school when FF8 released. I've also mentioned that I bring up LOS occasionally because XVI and LOS are incredibly similar in a variety of ways and LOS does things better but is 10+ years old and widely viewed as mediocre (which it isn't). XVI has no business getting a pass when games, better games, have been roasted. It's BS and as long as I continue to slog through XVI, I'm gonna share my opinions. Block me if you don't want to read them.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I think besides the more subjective aspects like the story, which half here thinks is mediocre, but I can accept the other half that like it, and the spectacle, which many aren't impressed by, being already burned out on a million big budget shallow movies, but I can accept the people that are impressed, the only objective aspect you have to talk about are the quality of its missions and the combat.

Practically everybody here agrees the sidequests suck, and everybody here agrees the combat is piss easy. I'm sorry, but I don't see what point you have. There is no argument. The game is just mediocre through and through unless you like the story which many didn't.

“The combat and story and production values are good but I’m sorry you don’t have a point, the game sucks”

Laughable argument. Read what you just said.

“Many people didn’t like it” = the same few people that drone on relentlessly against this game as it it’s their life’s mission. A vocal minority is not a majority.

 

[hyperbertha]

“The combat and story and production values are good but I’m sorry you don’t have a point, the game sucks”

Laughable argument. Read what you just said.

“Many people didn’t like it” = the same few people that drone on relentlessly against this game as of its their life’s mission. A vocal minority is not a majority.

Production values are good so the game is good? Is this not the laughable argument?

When did I say the story or combat was good? Now you're trying to put words in my mouth because you have nothing to say?

I've read most of the thread. It's absolutely not a vocal minority? Are you trying to hide by obfuscating facts?

 

[Lokaum D+]

Yea, I like FFXIII but I'm also not gonna defend everything about it. The game has a lot of issues but I still really enjoy the game. You bringing it up makes you look like a damn kid cause I haven't critiqued XVI based on whatever XIII did.

Also, people need to stop bringing other FF games into things I'm talking about. I've said repeatedly that I don't care that XVI is different from other FF games and I'm not even approaching the game like that. I'm approaching XVI as the game that it is and it ain't much. I'm not even that big of a FF fan. I largely stopped caring about the series in middle school when FF8 released. I've also mentioned that I bring up LOS occasionally because XVI and LOS are incredibly similar in a variety of ways and LOS does things better but is 10+ years old and widely viewed as mediocre (which it isn't). XVI has no business getting a pass when games, better games, have been roasted. It's BS and as long as I continue to slog through XVI, I'm gonna share my opinions. Block me if you don't want to read them.

c'mon dude, u love to use other games to shit on XVI ( ps3 games era did better ) but when someone use other FF games to argue against ur points their are kids ?

i dont need to block ur os anything like that, u are free to have ur own opnions, even if some of them are really shit ones, but dont get mad when someone call u out cause of this.

 

[Angelcurio]

Gigaflare is badass and pretty fun. Its on a fairly quick cooldown for its damage as well, and you can reduce it even more with a trinket.

If I had to guess tho, the rest of his kit is just kinda meh. His circle attack takes wayyyy too long to charge to be useful IMO, despite looking pretty fuckin cool. By the times its charged to an effective level I could have already killed everything twice over.

I still use him sometimes just for Gigaflare. His staggering attack with the little orbs honestly isnt bad.

Might be worth it to just take Gigaflare to mastery level and slot it with another Eikon

That's my aproach with it, just mastered the attack and use it with Shiva, since the original Triangle attack also charges super fast.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Production values are good so the game is good? Is this not the laughable argument?

When did I say the story or combat was good? Now you're trying to put words in my mouth because you have nothing to say?

I've read most of the thread. It's absolutely not a vocal minority? Are you trying to hide by obfuscating facts?

Confirmation bias at its finest

 

[fart town usa]

c'mon dude, u love to use other games to shit on XVI ( ps3 games era did better ) but when someone use other FF games to argue against ur points their are kids ?

i dont need to block ur os anything like that, u are free to have ur own opnions, even if some of them are really shit ones, but dont get mad when someone call u out cause of this.

It's because the game is dated as can be and there are plenty of action games that are really similar to XVI that are better yet a decade+ old.

You're comparing XVI to other FF games and saying "See! These games didn't have it either..." Well of course they didn't have it, mainline FF hasn't ever been a straight up action game, XVI is and it doesn't do things as well as older games that scored lower and were largely written off.

If anything, I'm doing some of you a favor by trying to clue you in to a really solid game worth playing if you love XVI but in your ignorance, you're dumping on a quality game for the sake of defending XVI.

 

[Lokaum D+]

It's because the game is dated as can be and there are plenty of action games that are really similar to XVI that are better yet a decade+ old.

You're comparing XVI to other FF games and saying "See! These games didn't have it either..." Well of course they didn't have it, mainline FF hasn't ever been a straight up action game, XVI is and it doesn't do things as well as older games that scored lower and were largely written off.

If anything, I'm doing some of you a favor by trying to clue you in to a really solid game worth playing if you love XVI but in your ignorance, you're dumping on a quality game for the sake of defending XVI.

lol, FFXIII is far from a quality game and by no means i m defendind XVI, the game has awful sidequest, terrible pacing, almost no exploration, the only thing that i m saying is that some of ur arguments are weak and shit, ur are the one calling ppl ignorant for not agrreing with u, after all u must be the kid over here.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It's because the game is dated as can be and there are plenty of action games that are really similar to XVI that are better yet a decade+ old.

There are not.