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Gamespy: Is a 2005 launch for Xbox 2 the best idea for Microsoft?
- Thread starter GigaDrive
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BeOnEdge said:
IMO microsoft will only have a chance in japan if they buy-out several good developing companies like they did with RARE. Nintendo can boost their consoles' with first party titles and then developers start getting interested in them. Same thing with Sega. Sony has the reputation and hype. Microsoft doesn't have sony's nor nintendo's advantages. If they get can crank out a AAA title every month or two on their own, developers will be encouraged to make games for it. I'll buy it if if AAA titles I like reach 4-6 titles.
Hell if there was 2/3 more games like Gaiden and Orta I would have gotten an xbox this generation.
BeOnEdge said:
Wait till Xbox 2 to see if buying Rare was stupid. They have released 1 game for Xbox with 2 more on the way.
So what will they have next? Banjo? Killer Instinct? PDO? Blast Corps? Solar Jetman? Marble Madness? The possibilities are endless!
Nicco said:
No a couple of months before last Christmas BeOnEdge was sorta right, but not when it comes to combined installed numbers. Let's just say it took the GAMECUBE and the X-BOX alot longer to hit 10M than the DC did. But at the same time DC had no *dirrect* competition (while GAMECUBE & X-BOX have been pretty much been in each others way the whole time), they came when the market was slowing down with N64/PS (where as Microsoft & Nintendo came late into PS2's headstart) and also a big chunk of DC's were sold durring the $50 bargain bin phase-out of the system...plus the system really did hit the ground running despite Sega's business/financial situation and Sega's in-house games were getting fresh new expossure and at their peak IMO...oh yeah and let's not forget that piracy on DC was rampent which helped the hardware sell quickly after people found out about that. I think once PS2 came in and the bargain bin started the DC just DIED...the GAMECUBE & X-BOX are still going though, and they've both surpassed DC's user-base by about 6M each and I see that number growing for both systems...in the short term for X-BOX and overall GAMECUBE in the long term.
So let's say (going by what BeOnEdge's point was) that Xenon can move as fast as the DreamCast did when it launched...with MS's financial state (compared to Sega's at that point) then heck yeah Xenon's headstart would put a hurting on PS3 more than DC did on PS2...BUT...Can Microsoft be at their creative zenith like Sega was when they launched DC? Will they be hitting a market that is stagnant & bored with the current generation (like DC did)? Can they have the exclussive content and the leap in graphics to garner the same kind of support DC had? And can they be at a cost level that will be attractive to people like the DC was? I would say on all accounts no, and coming off the cut-short/brick wall no BC transition with the first X-BOX they might've left a bad taste in buyers mouths when it comes to Xenon. Hell even Sony's PS2 launch wasn't as good as DC's launch was for Sega. The DreamCast's launch was HUGE...the only thing that surpassed it was the sheer hype of the PS2 launch which created more demand. I don't think Microsoft can repeat the DreamCast launch success (as far as wow factor, hype, content, momentum & fan support go) with Xenon...which is why they shouldn't go with such a premature headstart IMO.
Nicco said:
I think he stopped reading that part of the post once I I put the big "BUT" there. After which I pretty much said that Sega was at their creative peak, was generating the right hype, had lot's of great exclussive content, had a graphical jump that gave DC the wow factor it needs and it came when the market was bored with the N64/PS. MS won't be at a creative peak 'cos all they really have is PGR & Halo as far as what THEY make that's worth while, they'll be cutting short the current X-BOX which will conduct negativity...not hype, MS is no Sega and therefore won't have as much exclussive content as them...let alone good enough content, the graphical jump should be big...but not as big as DC over PS...so it won't have as much wow there and it will be hitting a market of satisfied PS2 customers and GAMECUBE's beautiful LOZ stride...so no...I don't think they'll be piquing the interest of "bored" gamers like DC did. And let's say the market is "bored" when the Xenon launches...I think alot of those "bored" gamers would spend their money on a Nintendo DS and/or a PSP than committing to a next-generation system...their current consoles and new portables will probably keep them busy until the "Revolution" & PS3.
So no, I don't see Xenon having a good DC-like entrance...which is why they shouldn't be going for a premature 2005 launch.
i read it all. you were willing to look at it from all angles and give me a worthy reply which i happen to agree with mostly instead of just saying "YOU SUCK XBOX!!! MS IS RICH! HAW HAW! I'M BETTER THAN YOU!!!" lol 
i dont want a 2005 release either but if they do, so be it. if they fail, atleast there were a few games worth buying. as long as a system has atleast 4-6 good games, i cant be angry that i bought it. if a system launches and ends up sucking flat out with barely 1 game worth playing until death, may they burn.
i dont want a 2005 release either but if they do, so be it. if they fail, atleast there were a few games worth buying. as long as a system has atleast 4-6 good games, i cant be angry that i bought it. if a system launches and ends up sucking flat out with barely 1 game worth playing until death, may they burn.SolidSnakex
Member
BeOnEdge said:
It wasn't just media ads. It was just media coverage in general. Sony alreadys busts MS' ass in marketing as it is. I don't see how it'd be too difficult for them to do it again. And if MS' marketing is anwyhere near as mediocre then like it is now it won't matter how much they throw commercials around (what was the last game that MS pushed hard that actually sold? Brute Force?). The PS3 will also be lined with really big hitters, maybe not at launch but soon after which will help push it even more. It'd be harder for them to take the Xbox 2 out like they did with the DC, but it's not impossible either.
SolidSnakex
Member
Depends on the gameplay upgrade. I don't think alot of sports fans will buy a new system because you can get a prettier version of a game on it. The main reason that there was a jump to the PS2 Maddens over the PSone versions is because there was a significant gameplay upgrade. Unless the Xenon can offer something similar, I doubt EA will be a deciding factor in it. Like every generation this will come down to exclusives.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Anything that puts Microsoft out of this industry faster is good by me. ^_^
Microsoft can't win against competition that can't be bought out, litigated into bankruptcy, or intimidated into submission.
Sega fans are just going to continue taking up sides with the company that is not-Nintendo, not-Sony; and keep being terribly disappointed. More jaded. More bitter. A legion of Saphirixes. Kee kee kee . . . ^_^
Microsoft can't win against competition that can't be bought out, litigated into bankruptcy, or intimidated into submission.
Sega fans are just going to continue taking up sides with the company that is not-Nintendo, not-Sony; and keep being terribly disappointed. More jaded. More bitter. A legion of Saphirixes. Kee kee kee . . . ^_^
SolidSnakex
Member
Well ofcourse there will be improvement, but i'm talking about signficicant improvements. Just go play Madden on the PSone and then play it on the PS2. It feels like you're playing 2 completely different games.
SolidSnakex
Member
I never said it wouldn't be, i'm just saying I doubt there'd be significant enough improvement to make people completely jump to a new platform. It could happen, but right now I just doubt it.
SolidSnakex
Member
Ofcourse, the PS3 has the magic chip.
No, I don't think there's going to be any significant leap in terms of gameplay next gen around for sports games. There will be one for graphics, but the gameplay leap won't be anything like we saw this gen.
No, I don't think there's going to be any significant leap in terms of gameplay next gen around for sports games. There will be one for graphics, but the gameplay leap won't be anything like we saw this gen.
The Take Out Bandit said:
A little close to the bone, but yeah, I agree. Microsoft is a company built on the technology of others. Internet Explorer didn't hit until Microsoft bought Spyglass; Windows is the result of a rather classic backstab to IBM; DOS, originally, wasn't even a Microsoft product, but something bought by Microsoft in haste because they had nothing of their own to demo at an upcoming meeting. MSNTV was originally WebTV, a seperate entity, and I'm fairly certain their DriveSpace technology came out of a buyout as well. About the only thing I can think of that came out of Microsoft - completely - is the windows Media technology, and I'm not even too sure about that.
Hell, the only thing Microsoft designed in regard to the Xbox in any traditional sense is the outer shell and the controller.
(And it has long been my contention that the XBox is home to a lot of embittered Dreamcast owners. I'm glad I'm not crazy.)
Microsoft, in short, has never taken a market segment with their own blood, sweat, and tears. It's why their standing in video games is so arrested; they can't buy their way to the top like they do nearly everything else.
BeOnEdge said:
Someone's not paying attention to Microsoft's attempts at marketing the XBox. The kiosks at stores are often a decent barometer for such things. Nintendo and Sony have games running on their demo disks, Microsoft has footage of G4 running off at the mouth at how cool the XBox is, Red vs. Blue stuff that most of the population won't even recognize, or a brief informercial on how/why XBox Live is the hottest shit this side of a Texas horse ranch in the summer.
Microsoft's a very corporate organization, "entertainment" isn't really their marketing department's thing, they're used to dealing with how to make people really want the next version of Word and Excel. And if that's not the case, and if Home/Entertainment is responsible for their own shit, then the indictment on the relative cluelessness gets a double word score, simply because they should know better.
Not a whole lot though. If there was a huge base of Sega fans, at the very least Panzer Dragoon Orta would have sold better. The only Sega fans on the Xbox side are the ones who hate Sony, and still hate Nintendo, and that's not a whole bunch.
Though there seems to be plenty more than you'd think when you chat on message boards.
I agree to some extent.
If the next gen sports games play like the previous set...but with upgraded player models and stadiums, then there won't be much to entice gamers.
But I think that the visuals will be of such a huge leap, that it will make current games look terribly outdated.
Nevermind the life-like looking player models...or the actual grass the players are running on (rather than a textured polygon)...things like detailed animations (that take into account jersey movement), detailed physics (so a ball can actually bounce off of the fingers of a player, taking into account the friction of the ball and glove on the player's hand, and possibly break through the fingers of a player), and advanced collision detection (so that players aren't going through other players, even slightly).
I expect these things to be adopted in the first generation of titles for the new platform, because devs are in the process of incorporating some of those features now. Ie. moving jerseys are being done in EPSN NBA 2K5.
I'm not even taking into account the AI advances...just simply the graphical (which sometimes translates to gameplay) and physics (which are effected by player models and some graphical elements).
The only reason why a next gen sports game won't look like real life is because the dev team has bad artists. I think this reason alone will entice sports fans moreso than
"gamers".
MightyHedgehog
Member
As far as sports games from EA's and MS' initial lineup for Xenon, I'd say that the jump in visual detail and immersion will be nearly as great as it seemed from PS1 to PS2. We're going to see self-casting shadows on all players and much more impressive and realistic weather and environment effects. There's also the possibility of very advanced and much more comprehensive cloth-based and more realistically articulated physics on all players on the field, much more accurate and realistic game physics and collision, much more room for MUCH better AI and AI-based animation, as well as a general all-around jump in visual presentation will make next-gen sports look as jaw-dropping as the first time you saw NFL2K on the DC. With the massive increase in processor power, the possibility for handling fully player-manned teams is much more feasible. It's going to be pretty incredible, IMO.
That, and I fully expect a new EA franchise, or rather a rebirth of a classic franchise on the new system.
2005 might not be the best time to launch the system, but if the games are all jaw-dropping, both visually and otherwise, it really won't matter too much.
That, and I fully expect a new EA franchise, or rather a rebirth of a classic franchise on the new system.
2005 might not be the best time to launch the system, but if the games are all jaw-dropping, both visually and otherwise, it really won't matter too much.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
"DCharlie, what of "a BIG part of CELL related costs is the investment they made for CMOS5 and CMOS6 ( 65 nm and 45 nm technologies respectively ) and their two new fabs ( one in Nagasaki and one in Oita )" is still missing from your line of reasoning ?Do you think that using CMOS5 in their new fabs they will be able to make ONLY CELL chips and only chips for PlayStation 3 ?
Kutaragi plans to shift most of the advanced chips Sony will try to make in house ( decreasing the chips they buy from competitors basically ) to the new fabs they are building."
Okay - so they will recoup the X billion costs of Cell in what way? By sticking that tech in TVs ? so i guess the TV cost is going to go up in line right?
We haven`t even factored in advertisement costs yet, and we are already looking at scary figures.
Kutaragi plans to shift most of the advanced chips Sony will try to make in house ( decreasing the chips they buy from competitors basically ) to the new fabs they are building."
Okay - so they will recoup the X billion costs of Cell in what way? By sticking that tech in TVs ? so i guess the TV cost is going to go up in line right?
We haven`t even factored in advertisement costs yet, and we are already looking at scary figures.
From Sega 2k1 annual report (closing March 2K1 2 months after DC death)
A total of 3.39 million hardware units and 23.87 million software units were sold worldwide during fiscal 2001, for respective totals of 8.20 million units and 51.63 million units since Dreamcast was first brought to market.
so BeonEdge is really wrong if it thinks DC sales are at 17M ...
A total of 3.39 million hardware units and 23.87 million software units were sold worldwide during fiscal 2001, for respective totals of 8.20 million units and 51.63 million units since Dreamcast was first brought to market.
so BeonEdge is really wrong if it thinks DC sales are at 17M ...
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
SolidSnakeX made an excellent point about the importance of not only the graphics but the gameplay upgrade from PS1 Madden to PS2 Madden. The principal gameplay improvement from 32 bit sports games to the next generation was actually the result of the better hardware: better frame rates. Go back and play the 32-bit polygonal Maddens ('99 and 2000) and you will be stunned at how slow and cumbersome the animations and movement are. Those games don't hold up nearly as well as the sprite-based 16 bit versions, which are much more fun to play now.
I know Madden will look better on Xenon, but I don't see a similarly revolutionary gameply upgrade that will necessarily follow from better hardware. Granted, it's hard for us now to gauge the effect that truly realistic physics and 22 man independent movement could have on gameplay. It's possible that something in Xenon Madden could be done so much better than before that people could not realistically go back and play it on a PS2, but I'm not sure what that would be.
I wonder how long it took EA to develop the first PS2 Madden?
I know Madden will look better on Xenon, but I don't see a similarly revolutionary gameply upgrade that will necessarily follow from better hardware. Granted, it's hard for us now to gauge the effect that truly realistic physics and 22 man independent movement could have on gameplay. It's possible that something in Xenon Madden could be done so much better than before that people could not realistically go back and play it on a PS2, but I'm not sure what that would be.
I wonder how long it took EA to develop the first PS2 Madden?
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