Tqaulity
Member
Hardware Unboxed recently published a pretty comprehensive collection of ray tracing tests on the flagship GPUs from Nvidia (RTX 4090) and AMD (RX 7900XTX). The tests include 36 games featuring ray tracing with the goal to evaluate the performance hit from activating ray tracing at different quality settings. First of all kudos to Hardware Unboxed for such an extensive set of tests as this surely took a ton on time and effort to complete!
The obvious conclusion from their testing is simple: Ray Tracing is still very expensive on any hardware!! It cost ~31% on average on NV 4090 and 39% on avg on the 7900XTX. Of course, Nvidia RT hardware is superior and thus the perf hit is generally much lower than on AMD's RDNA 3 hardware.
So considering that and looking at some of the absolute performance data got me thinking: what does this data suggest about the value proposition of the PS5 Pro? We're hearing news of an increasing number of PS5 PRO enhanced games featuring additional RT features compared to the base PS5. But the one thing that sticks out is that many of those modes are still limited to 30fps fidelity modes. Cue the cries and shouts from the fans complaining about how weak the PS5 Pro is and the PS5 Pro is "disappointing" due to not being able to deliver RT at 60fps.
But is that really an accurate and fair assessment? This data from Hardware Unboxed does provide some insight to answer that question.
Keep in mind that all of the testing they did was with DLSS/FSR quality mode enabled (so ~1440p internal resolution reconstructed to 4K). And remember that the PS5 PRO still uses AMD hardware (which is inferior in RT to NV) so the most fair comparison would in fact be against other AMD GPUs on the PC (in this case the RX 7900 XTX). Also remember that the MSRP of the RX7900XTX is $999 and the RTX 4090 is $1599 by itself!
With that perspective, it's interesting to note just how many games cannot hit a 4K/60fps on the Radeon RX 7900 XTX even with FSR reconstruction. Some examples with emphasis on titles that we know have PS5 PRO updates coming (focusing on the 1% low FPS which would indicate a "locked" 60fps):
F1 24 cannot lock to 60fps on a flagship 7900 XTX with high RT quality. It's slightly over 60fps with medium RT. So getting all the PC RT features on the PS5 PRO (minus the RT shadows) at 60fps with PSSR 4K output is actually pretty promising
Oh maybe we'll finally get HW RT on Fortnite with the PS5 PRO? Uhhh not likely! Neither the 4090 nor the 7900 XTX can do it at 60fps
Really? Still 30fps mode in Jedi Survivor with RT? Yes absolutely! Neither the 4090 nor the 7900 XTX can do locked 60fps even with upscaling enabled
One of the first 30fps games shown off for the PS5 PRO (*moan*). Why? Umm...this is why
These flagship cards can barely hit a locked 60fps in Dragon's Dogma 2 with RT. So realistic to expect a (weaker) PS5 PRO to do it?
R&C is super optimized on console and we're already getting some RT at 60fps on console. But the 7900 XTX can't lock to 60fps even with medium RT settings and FSR!
Remember this one? Callisto Protocol on base PS5 had RT in fidelity mode at 30fps right? Realistic to expect the PS5 PRO to bump that up to 60fps? Not likely...without serious optimization
One of the flagship RT/PT titles! Would be prime for a PS5 PRO indeed. But...RT at 60fps? RT low on a 7900 XTX is not hitting 60fps on average with FSR (barely hits 60fps lock on 4090)
The infamous Black Myth: Wukong. One of the most taxing games out today. But did you recall just how poor it runs on AMD hardware? Like how it doesn't hit 4k/60 with FSR on a 7900XTX without RT enabled! It'd be a miracle to get an RT mode at 30fps on a PS5 PRO (but not likely)
Yep the big one that got the internet in a frenzy. Is it really surprising to see RT at 30fps on a PS5 PRO when lowest RT setting on a 7900XTX cannot lock to 20fps!!. Come on guys...
Now, I know what you're thinking. Yeah on the PC we could lower the upscaling quality (Balanced, Performance, etc) and add in frame generation now via DLSS or FSR for many of these titles and get much higher perf right. Of course and yes with those settings, some of these games could hit 4K/60 on these cards. But again this isn't about comparing raw perf numbers from flagship GPUs to the PS5 PRO console. It's about managing expectations! These numbers reflect a theoretical ceiling of what we could get from state of the art GPUs today from AMD and Nvidia. Obviously, the raw perf from the PS5 PRO GPU would be lower than this in any direct comparison. But the point is, the theoretical ceiling is often times well below hitting a locked 4K/60 even with upscaling enabled. Thus, it is ridiculous to expect a $700 console to match or exceed that.
I'd submit we're already seeing very promising results from early PS5 PRO patch updates. Many games are finally able to add full RT features on consoles which even at 30fps is pretty impressive coming from what was not possible on the base PS5. Furthermore, we're already hearing several cases of 60fps modes on the PRO featuring RT which was not the case on the base console. Games like F1 24, GT7, Jedi Survivor, Dead Rising Remake, and Dragon Age Veilguard are just a few games announced so far to feature RT in the 60fps performance mode where the base PS5 is limited to no RT (F1, GT7) or only in the 30fps fidelity mode (Jedi Survivor, Dragon Age). This is really impressive stuff!
Look if you want the ultimate quality at the fastest framerates and are willing to invest the $$$, you know where to go (high end PC). But even high end PCs have their limitations, especially with RT/PT heavy games. I'd argue the increasingly evident RT advantages the PS5 PRO offers is worth the $700 alone when put in context. For those that don't care about RT, you'll still have your performance modes running even faster at 60-120fps. In the end, everyone should have something to benefit from so just....stop complaining and please ENJOY your games!!
The obvious conclusion from their testing is simple: Ray Tracing is still very expensive on any hardware!! It cost ~31% on average on NV 4090 and 39% on avg on the 7900XTX. Of course, Nvidia RT hardware is superior and thus the perf hit is generally much lower than on AMD's RDNA 3 hardware.
So considering that and looking at some of the absolute performance data got me thinking: what does this data suggest about the value proposition of the PS5 Pro? We're hearing news of an increasing number of PS5 PRO enhanced games featuring additional RT features compared to the base PS5. But the one thing that sticks out is that many of those modes are still limited to 30fps fidelity modes. Cue the cries and shouts from the fans complaining about how weak the PS5 Pro is and the PS5 Pro is "disappointing" due to not being able to deliver RT at 60fps.
But is that really an accurate and fair assessment? This data from Hardware Unboxed does provide some insight to answer that question.
Keep in mind that all of the testing they did was with DLSS/FSR quality mode enabled (so ~1440p internal resolution reconstructed to 4K). And remember that the PS5 PRO still uses AMD hardware (which is inferior in RT to NV) so the most fair comparison would in fact be against other AMD GPUs on the PC (in this case the RX 7900 XTX). Also remember that the MSRP of the RX7900XTX is $999 and the RTX 4090 is $1599 by itself!
With that perspective, it's interesting to note just how many games cannot hit a 4K/60fps on the Radeon RX 7900 XTX even with FSR reconstruction. Some examples with emphasis on titles that we know have PS5 PRO updates coming (focusing on the 1% low FPS which would indicate a "locked" 60fps):
F1 24 cannot lock to 60fps on a flagship 7900 XTX with high RT quality. It's slightly over 60fps with medium RT. So getting all the PC RT features on the PS5 PRO (minus the RT shadows) at 60fps with PSSR 4K output is actually pretty promising
Oh maybe we'll finally get HW RT on Fortnite with the PS5 PRO? Uhhh not likely! Neither the 4090 nor the 7900 XTX can do it at 60fps
Really? Still 30fps mode in Jedi Survivor with RT? Yes absolutely! Neither the 4090 nor the 7900 XTX can do locked 60fps even with upscaling enabled
One of the first 30fps games shown off for the PS5 PRO (*moan*). Why? Umm...this is why
These flagship cards can barely hit a locked 60fps in Dragon's Dogma 2 with RT. So realistic to expect a (weaker) PS5 PRO to do it?
R&C is super optimized on console and we're already getting some RT at 60fps on console. But the 7900 XTX can't lock to 60fps even with medium RT settings and FSR!
Remember this one? Callisto Protocol on base PS5 had RT in fidelity mode at 30fps right? Realistic to expect the PS5 PRO to bump that up to 60fps? Not likely...without serious optimization
One of the flagship RT/PT titles! Would be prime for a PS5 PRO indeed. But...RT at 60fps? RT low on a 7900 XTX is not hitting 60fps on average with FSR (barely hits 60fps lock on 4090)
The infamous Black Myth: Wukong. One of the most taxing games out today. But did you recall just how poor it runs on AMD hardware? Like how it doesn't hit 4k/60 with FSR on a 7900XTX without RT enabled! It'd be a miracle to get an RT mode at 30fps on a PS5 PRO (but not likely)
Yep the big one that got the internet in a frenzy. Is it really surprising to see RT at 30fps on a PS5 PRO when lowest RT setting on a 7900XTX cannot lock to 20fps!!. Come on guys...
Now, I know what you're thinking. Yeah on the PC we could lower the upscaling quality (Balanced, Performance, etc) and add in frame generation now via DLSS or FSR for many of these titles and get much higher perf right. Of course and yes with those settings, some of these games could hit 4K/60 on these cards. But again this isn't about comparing raw perf numbers from flagship GPUs to the PS5 PRO console. It's about managing expectations! These numbers reflect a theoretical ceiling of what we could get from state of the art GPUs today from AMD and Nvidia. Obviously, the raw perf from the PS5 PRO GPU would be lower than this in any direct comparison. But the point is, the theoretical ceiling is often times well below hitting a locked 4K/60 even with upscaling enabled. Thus, it is ridiculous to expect a $700 console to match or exceed that.
I'd submit we're already seeing very promising results from early PS5 PRO patch updates. Many games are finally able to add full RT features on consoles which even at 30fps is pretty impressive coming from what was not possible on the base PS5. Furthermore, we're already hearing several cases of 60fps modes on the PRO featuring RT which was not the case on the base console. Games like F1 24, GT7, Jedi Survivor, Dead Rising Remake, and Dragon Age Veilguard are just a few games announced so far to feature RT in the 60fps performance mode where the base PS5 is limited to no RT (F1, GT7) or only in the 30fps fidelity mode (Jedi Survivor, Dragon Age). This is really impressive stuff!
Look if you want the ultimate quality at the fastest framerates and are willing to invest the $$$, you know where to go (high end PC). But even high end PCs have their limitations, especially with RT/PT heavy games. I'd argue the increasingly evident RT advantages the PS5 PRO offers is worth the $700 alone when put in context. For those that don't care about RT, you'll still have your performance modes running even faster at 60-120fps. In the end, everyone should have something to benefit from so just....stop complaining and please ENJOY your games!!
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