-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
John Linnerman: Switch 2 likely to be architecturally superior than PS4 Pro but limited in other ways
- Thread starter GigaBowser
- Start date
- Hardware
most likely in a week or 2
HeisenbergFX4
Member
The best part is neither knows shit
Basically
Killer8
Member
It won't be difficult to match or exceed the Pro in terms of memory and CPU configuration (the Pro still used those shitty Jaguar cores but just clocked higher). GPU power will be the main differentiator but there are so many questions there that go beyond just TFLOPS. Will it use DLSS? Will it have ray-tracing support? These modern features could allow it to punch well above its weight.
Radical_3d
Member
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
The greatest and sad day in the world is when we can no longer guess about what this thing is.
Fake
Member
Of course if the Nintendo Switch have a dedicated DLSS hardware will be superior to PS4pro.
But if you count specs, maybe get close to base PS4. CPU cores, clock speed, GPU, video memory, storage... all those things we know Nintendo going to be cheap.
Not to mention ARM is very limited in comparison with x86 no matter what people try to say.
But if you count specs, maybe get close to base PS4. CPU cores, clock speed, GPU, video memory, storage... all those things we know Nintendo going to be cheap.
Not to mention ARM is very limited in comparison with x86 no matter what people try to say.
Last edited:
Unknown Soldier
Member
FalconPunch
Member
For the switch 2 to be more powerful than the ps4 pro, it’ll need to be more powerful than the rog ally x. The switch 2 will not be more powerful than the rog ally x and might not even be as powerful as the steam deck.
Anyone thinking the switch 2 will be more powerful than the ps4 pro is in for a rude awakening. But hey, that’s the best thing about Nintendo fans, they’re eternally hopeful and completely delusional just like Arsenal fans.
Anyone thinking the switch 2 will be more powerful than the ps4 pro is in for a rude awakening. But hey, that’s the best thing about Nintendo fans, they’re eternally hopeful and completely delusional just like Arsenal fans.
Last edited:
Buggy Loop
Member
Well yea
In teraflops, no it won't.
But Ampere architecture + Ada featureset are leaps above AMD's GCN. GNC's cache was not good and why it never had proper support in DX11. One of the major reworks for RDNA was to restructure the cache. Ampere is tuned like a McLaren for cache comparatively, Ada being basically Ampere with jacked up cache. Also GCN was build around compute and ended up being a dead end for AMD, that is gimping Polaris architecture (PS4 pro downclocked RX480).
Ampere had a massive shift in efficiency on Nvidia side :
Improvements in concurrent operations (important for raster/RT/ML), asynchronous barrier to keep execution units always near full occupancy, Ampere's global memory traffic for asynchronous memory copy and reducing memory traffic. Also serves to hide data copy latency.
Ampere's cache management and residency control are completely different beasts compared to old AMD tech.
Then PS4 pro is also gimped by Jaguar CPUs..
I still don't think it'll be outputting PS4 Pro 4k native by brute forcing its way with high teraflops, but DLSS exists for a god damn reason.
But more importantly
guys
We have never seen Nvidia Ampere/Ada unchained from DirectX API and Windows OS
We've never seen Ampere with Nvidia's inhouse API and being close to the metal until Switch 2
Do you understand?
In teraflops, no it won't.
But Ampere architecture + Ada featureset are leaps above AMD's GCN. GNC's cache was not good and why it never had proper support in DX11. One of the major reworks for RDNA was to restructure the cache. Ampere is tuned like a McLaren for cache comparatively, Ada being basically Ampere with jacked up cache. Also GCN was build around compute and ended up being a dead end for AMD, that is gimping Polaris architecture (PS4 pro downclocked RX480).
Ampere had a massive shift in efficiency on Nvidia side :
Improvements in concurrent operations (important for raster/RT/ML), asynchronous barrier to keep execution units always near full occupancy, Ampere's global memory traffic for asynchronous memory copy and reducing memory traffic. Also serves to hide data copy latency.
Ampere's cache management and residency control are completely different beasts compared to old AMD tech.
Then PS4 pro is also gimped by Jaguar CPUs..
I still don't think it'll be outputting PS4 Pro 4k native by brute forcing its way with high teraflops, but DLSS exists for a god damn reason.
But more importantly
guys
We have never seen Nvidia Ampere/Ada unchained from DirectX API and Windows OS
We've never seen Ampere with Nvidia's inhouse API and being close to the metal until Switch 2
Do you understand?
Last edited:
Parazels
Member
I doubt Nintendo will reveal its horsepower within the announcement.
So these speculations will never end!
Mr Moose
Member
That'll use more power in handheld mode and drain the battery faster.
diffusionx
Gold Member
it won't have an ancient dogshit CPU and will have a modern GPU but will be limited by power consumption because it's a handheld that needs to run on 7.5W of power, not 150-200W that the PS4 Pro and PS5 use.
yea, obviously.
yea, obviously.
Last edited:
BlackTron
Member
That's all that really matters. People already use the old Switch to play new releases like Sonic x Shadow. If the antiquated Switch 1 tech can manage that much, Switch 2 day one will be eye watering...
kevboard
Member
yup. all you really need to get a decent 4K image with well implemented DLSS is a 1080p internal resolution.
on a 1080p, 8" handheld screen I bet they can get away with 626p (aka. DLSS balanced mode) even.
ResilientBanana
Member
LPDDR RAM isn’t great for a console. The whole thing is low power, not sure what you all are excited about.
RodriGames40
Member
Remember when we all salivated after Naughty Dog showed us Uncharted 4 running on PS4 after years of developing for the PS3? Or how Rocksteady showed us Arkham Knight running on console hardware? I feel very similar vibes here.
Last edited:
Putonahappyface
Member
NomenNescio
Gold Member
Sony: releases pro version of their current console with state of the art PISSER tech.
GAF: "meh, not worth it, too expensive, no disc drive".
Nintendo: releases a 10 year old hardware equivalent in 2025, with cartridges as format.
GAF:
GAF: "meh, not worth it, too expensive, no disc drive".
Nintendo: releases a 10 year old hardware equivalent in 2025, with cartridges as format.
GAF:
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
Remember how Wii u was supposed to beat 360/PS3 by using a "more modern architecture" even had less raw power and all games simple ended up looking the same if not plaing worse? Yeah...
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
What did you expect? Bleeding edge tech that is comparable to a PS5 Pro on a hybrid console?
OverHeat
« generous god »
Z1 extreme level
bundylove
Member
Nintendo cornered themselves with the switch 2.
When switch came out there was no competition. Ever since we have many type of steamdecks, xbox handheld is on the horizon, we ps portable, we have many other companies that try to mimick this type of console.
I just dont see how they can have the same success with the switch 2.
Also dont forget we went from wii u in 2012 to switch in 2017.
You would think they give you something new after 8 years but instead its just an upgraded switch.
And it will be down to first party games once again as i dont see why anyine would want to play any third party game on it when you pay full price like crazy as its nintendo and you will have a lot worse experience than anywhere else including steamdeck.
And how will you fit a black ops game with 200gigs on a card? What internal storage will there be? At least steamdecj has up to 1tb internal storage vs 32gigs on switch.
Even if its on par or stronger than a ps4 pro , it still wont have 16g gddr5 or 6 ram, or a large internal ssd, or whatever else is needed to take full advantage of the new gpu.
And the price will for sure hower in a high 400's for which in todays market you have many comparables. That are wastly better.
I feel this will be a mediocre success ala wii u or gamecube.
When switch came out there was no competition. Ever since we have many type of steamdecks, xbox handheld is on the horizon, we ps portable, we have many other companies that try to mimick this type of console.
I just dont see how they can have the same success with the switch 2.
Also dont forget we went from wii u in 2012 to switch in 2017.
You would think they give you something new after 8 years but instead its just an upgraded switch.
And it will be down to first party games once again as i dont see why anyine would want to play any third party game on it when you pay full price like crazy as its nintendo and you will have a lot worse experience than anywhere else including steamdeck.
And how will you fit a black ops game with 200gigs on a card? What internal storage will there be? At least steamdecj has up to 1tb internal storage vs 32gigs on switch.
Even if its on par or stronger than a ps4 pro , it still wont have 16g gddr5 or 6 ram, or a large internal ssd, or whatever else is needed to take full advantage of the new gpu.
And the price will for sure hower in a high 400's for which in todays market you have many comparables. That are wastly better.
I feel this will be a mediocre success ala wii u or gamecube.
RodriGames40
Member
Docked will be, handheld has to contend with a battery.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Nintendo has sold more Switch systems since the Steam Deck came out than the Steam Deck did. In fact, they likely outsold the entire category.
This shit is simply not relevant. Neither is Xbox. The only mistake that Nintendo could reaslistically make is chasing hardware so nerds on forums like this would be happy, and pricing it too high as a result.
Last edited:
Fabieter
Member
People think it's possible for Nintendo to go cheaper than that shitty cpu in the ps4?
bender
What time is it?
6 RAM was one of the most underutilized technologies found in the PS4 Pro.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Over a decade later and Nvidia still can’t match the beastly AMD Jaguar netbook CPU
IAmRei
Member
Can't be more agree
PS4 power only, without pro, is enough i think. Because more power will result to more needs for battery and cooling which could be turn off for handheld
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
PS4 Pro specs:
Size: 295×55×327 mm
Weight: 3.3 kg
CPU: x86-64 AMD “Jaguar”, 8 cores
GPU: 4.20 TFLOPS, AMD Radeon™ based graphics engine
RAM: 8GB
Max. resolution: 4K
Storage: 1TB
Size: 295×55×327 mm
Weight: 3.3 kg
CPU: x86-64 AMD “Jaguar”, 8 cores
GPU: 4.20 TFLOPS, AMD Radeon™ based graphics engine
RAM: 8GB
Max. resolution: 4K
Storage: 1TB
Fake
Member
For the time the PS4 cpu wasn't shit. Was a custom made cpu, but Sony did want a CPU with low energy consuming factor. Thats why is a mobile jaguar, mainly from ultrabooks.
ARM is a very different beast. Benchmarks already proved they are not even close to match the x86 architectury. We are at the mercy of the devs good hands as usual.
I particulary don't care, a NS2 close to base PS4 with DSLL already is a win for Nintendo first party. Third party never did a good job anyway.
Last edited:
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
I don’t know if Nintendo games (Mario party, Kirby, yoshi) need advance hardware people in here are clamoring for, totk brought fun electrifiing energy and quite limited hardware and history shows Nintendo has never been #1 in terms of power, plus usually all that power costs $$$ thank you very much, Nintendo doesn’t want your next console to cost the price of the ps5 or series x still at $370, and $399.
Trilobit
Absolutely Cozy
I can't wait to actually be able to buy great exclusives again. *looking at my disappointing PS5 in the corner*
Last edited:
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
So if PS4 Pro is a decent benchmark (give or take a bit), Switch 2 coming out in sometime in 2025 will be around 9 year old tech. PS4 Pro came out in Nov 2016. Perhaps 8.5 years if it's an early 2025 launch soon.
The gap is getting bigger.
You never know. Maybe in the year 2040, Switch 4 will have the power of PS5/SX. lol
The gap is getting bigger.
You never know. Maybe in the year 2040, Switch 4 will have the power of PS5/SX. lol
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Nintendo games have been (basically) at the same level of graphical power since 2012 and Luigi's Mansion 3 is one of the best looking games last gen, teraflops be damned. This will be a generational leap in technology for Nintendo by every conceivable metric and the real-world performance that results in games that "should" look better than any Nintendo game has ever looked and by a fair margin . Couple that with competent ports of current gen 3rd party games (Call of Duty we know is a lock, and Elden Ring and whatever else) and the plethora of indie titles and they look to be in very good shape. One thing those other handhelds don't have, as corny as it sounds is Mario. Graphical power hasn't sold a damn thing for Nintendo since Nintendo 64.
The measurables don't matter outside of making quality content that doesn't play like dogshit. I can barely tell the difference between PS4-Pro-PS5 games now. I don't think I am an elitest player anymore despite owning every console save for the PS5pro and an ok gaming monitor. Diminishing Returns in gaming are real.
ZoukGalaxy
Member
Say hello to Thermal throttling everywhere.
Giallo Corsa
Member
Gents, we can get technical and speculate as much as we want but
bundylove
makes some good points in his posts to which I'd like to add my thoughts :
This will probably have some form of DLSS,. correct ? Well, the problem is (and I fully understand that not everyone will share the same opinion) is that since Ninty will not go all-in hardware wise compared to the next MS and (probably) PS portable, most games (heavier ones that is) will probably still have to run at 30fps which in 2025, due to most people having an OLED will be something...not ideal due to OLED judder - I know that many will think that this sounds like hyperbole but personally - and unfortunately - since getting an OLED I just can't do 30fps anymore and it's not because I got accustomed to playing at 60fps due to the performance modes most games have but exactly because of that friggin' OLED judder which makes every 30fps game feel like it's stuttering constantly.
Basically with the exception of Mario games/Mario kart/Metroid and others, heavier games (heck, even Zelda is 30fps on the switch), 3rd party ones and heavier Ninty ones will still be 30fps which, for me (and I assume for others too) will definitely be a deal breaker - I mean, why get X game on the switch 2 when - probably - X game will run better on Xbox/PS portable ?
Honest question btw, and while I am speculating, I think it poses as an eventual problem.
I'd really like to get one since I missed the original switch hype train and I'd also like to play some casual Ninty games with my partner, the fact that it will probably act as a Nintendo exclusives device doesn't exactly make me want to rush and buy one, i.e, there's not that many released in a gen to begin with - how many Mario's/Zelda's/Metroids are released per console generation?
Don't know, maybe some people are right in saying that since portable PCs/handhelds have gotten big in the last 4-5 years the Switch 2 will have some new hurdles to surpass when it comes to market share etc.
I suppose we'll have to wait and see
bundylove
makes some good points in his posts to which I'd like to add my thoughts :This will probably have some form of DLSS,. correct ? Well, the problem is (and I fully understand that not everyone will share the same opinion) is that since Ninty will not go all-in hardware wise compared to the next MS and (probably) PS portable, most games (heavier ones that is) will probably still have to run at 30fps which in 2025, due to most people having an OLED will be something...not ideal due to OLED judder - I know that many will think that this sounds like hyperbole but personally - and unfortunately - since getting an OLED I just can't do 30fps anymore and it's not because I got accustomed to playing at 60fps due to the performance modes most games have but exactly because of that friggin' OLED judder which makes every 30fps game feel like it's stuttering constantly.
Basically with the exception of Mario games/Mario kart/Metroid and others, heavier games (heck, even Zelda is 30fps on the switch), 3rd party ones and heavier Ninty ones will still be 30fps which, for me (and I assume for others too) will definitely be a deal breaker - I mean, why get X game on the switch 2 when - probably - X game will run better on Xbox/PS portable ?
Honest question btw, and while I am speculating, I think it poses as an eventual problem.
I'd really like to get one since I missed the original switch hype train and I'd also like to play some casual Ninty games with my partner, the fact that it will probably act as a Nintendo exclusives device doesn't exactly make me want to rush and buy one, i.e, there's not that many released in a gen to begin with - how many Mario's/Zelda's/Metroids are released per console generation?
Don't know, maybe some people are right in saying that since portable PCs/handhelds have gotten big in the last 4-5 years the Switch 2 will have some new hurdles to surpass when it comes to market share etc.
I suppose we'll have to wait and see
Last edited:
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
XBOX ONE X is still a beast and probably could handle a fair amount of current gen games despite that shitty CPU. Red Dead Redemption 2 on that box is amazing.
They won't reveal it before DK on the 16th, my guess would be the week after.I give it one week before we are finally in the danger zone of a reveal possibly happening. At this point, I'm practically more stoked to learn about games, because I'm reasonably confident we're getting an iterative Switch sequel at a mass-market price that plays games much better than Switch 1 already
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Nintendos biggest strength is portability. And gamers love Nintendo handhelds going back to Gameboy. Their handhelds have always sold like gangbusters. So a powerful handheld isnt needed. Docking is a bonus. Not the other way around treating it as a console first, handheld as a bonus.
Whenever they've tried to go guns a blazing with a powerful console it's been more failures (n64, GC) and one success SNES.
Their best bets for success are handheld and not rolling the dice on a gimmicky feature like Wii waggling. Worked for Wii. Failed with Virtual Boy and Wii U.
If I was Nintendo, just keep doing what theyre doing now. Boost up the specs to have better games, keep it a dockable hybrid console. Skip the pricy power race and gimmicky gameplay. Make a cheap hybrid system that is good enough to get the job done for families and that's a victory. Mario, Zelda and MK dont need mega teraflop power or RT.
Last edited: