Support NeoGAF

[Woopah]

So what happens when those games need to run in "Mobile" mode?

They will run with with lower graphic settings due to heat and battery life. Each game will have a portable profile and a TV profile, like Switch.

 

[PeteBull]

They will run with with lower graphic settings due to heat and battery life. Each game will have a portable profile and a TV profile, like Switch.

Main different thing will be resolution, for comparision 720p on docked switch2, even if we take exactly same game, settings, fps etc, just upped to native 4k, is 9x difference in pixel amount, even if u do 4k dlss performance it will still be around 3x more demanding(roughly 2x from 720p to 1080p alone btw, and dlss performance is 1080p upscaled to 4k, dlss has performance penalty too, even on performance "quality").

 

[Muddy]

Yes


Even with the extra 4GBs of RAM the 1080Ti has, that RAM is significantly slower than the GDDR6 on the 4060.

I just gave an example. Newer architecture doesn’t mean more powerful. How about 2080ti vs 4060?

Then you have the fact that it is a handheld with low power draw and Nintendo being profit first.

What will the max power draw be on the Switch 2 GPU? 15-25W?

Get ready for disappointment.

 

[diffusionx]

I just gave an example. Newer architecture doesn’t mean more powerful. How about 2080ti vs 4060?

Then you have the fact that it is a handheld with low power draw and Nintendo being profit first.

What will the max power draw be on the Switch 2 GPU? 15-25W?

Get ready for disappointment.

Switch docked is only like 15-20W. Undocked is 7.5W. I don't expect massive changes from this, and there is only so much you can do.

Consoles are in the 100W-200W range normally.

 

[Woopah]

Main different thing will be resolution, for comparision 720p on docked switch2, even if we take exactly same game, settings, fps etc, just upped to native 4k, is 9x difference in pixel amount, even if u do 4k dlss performance it will still be around 3x more demanding(roughly 2x from 720p to 1080p alone btw, and dlss performance is 1080p upscaled to 4k, dlss has performance penalty too, even on performance "quality").

I imagine a lot of the current gen games on Switch 2 will not be 4k, even after DLSS.

 

[mckmas8808]

They will run with with lower graphic settings due to heat and battery life. Each game will have a portable profile and a TV profile, like Switch.

True......but if the game needs to have a lower graphics setting, then the ceiling for what the game can be (at the design level) will be limited. At 10W.....there's only but so much people should expect, because Nintendo will 100% focus on battery life more than the PC handheld makers.

 

[Woopah]

True......but if the game needs to have a lower graphics setting, then the ceiling for what the game can be (at the design level) will be limited. At 10W.....there's only but so much people should expect, because Nintendo will 100% focus on battery life more than the PC handheld makers.

There will still be games that miss Switch 2 due to power and having to run in portable mode. But I see it being much easier to port a Series S game to Switch 2 than it was to port an Xbox One game to Switch.

 

[Unknown?]

I’d bloody hope it was more powerful than PS4 Pro! Why would anybody be excited for anything less?

It's not like the original switch was much better than old home console tech. Current top of the line phones still are limited compared to home technology.

 

[jm89]

I would hope so it's architecturally superior to 7 year old hardware which is based on 10 year old hardware.

 

[spookyfish]

THIS was the gif/jif/zhif I was thinking of.

 

[kevboard]

True......but if the game needs to have a lower graphics setting, then the ceiling for what the game can be (at the design level) will be limited. At 10W.....there's only but so much people should expect, because Nintendo will 100% focus on battery life more than the PC handheld makers.

I think you underestimate how easy modern engines can scale down graphics these days.

portable mode can easily run games at resolutions below 720p without it being too much of an eyesore due to A: DLSS and B: screen size.
or if a game targets 60 fps docked they can not only reduce settings and resolution for the portable mode, but also half the framerate if it's absolutely needed.
wouldn't be the first Nintendo handheld to dynamically change framerates, as some 3DS games switched between 30 and 60 fps when toggling the 3D on and off.

so there is massive potential to scale down simply through resolution and framerate. if a game runs at 1080p 60fps internally in docked mode, and you reduce that to 540p 30fps in portable mode, you are basically rendering only 13% of the pixels per second the docked mode renders at.
if you target the same framerate in both modes you'd still only need to render 25% of the pixels per second by going from 1080p to 540p.

on top of that DLSS has a lower frame time cost when scaling 540p to 1080p than when scaling 1080p to 2160p, which would be an automatic frametime saving right there.

so even without touching the actual shadow, AO, GI, draw distance settings etc., simply reducing the pixels you render has huge scaling potential.

 

[TexMex]

If it means that Nintendo will have an easier time developing games and that the development time and costs don't balloon like they have this gen, then I have no problems with the tech being less powerful. I just want fun games to play even if they are graphically lacking. Breath of the Wild is still the best gaming experience I've had in the last few years and that includes my time with my PS5.

So no, not a system war thing, rather a games output thing.

I'm with you on it being an output thing, I want high output too, I just don't think they've found the balance. I don't need the games to look better, I need them to run better. Tears of the Kingdom looks just fine, but when it drops to 15FPS and starts running like an N64 game, that's a problem to me. They are extending these games beyond the limitations of the hardware and they (by and large) run terribly. And I think it's really weird that Nintendo fans, of which I still want to be one, simply don't care because it comes off like this company is completely exempt from any sort of criticism whatsoever. Just accept what they give and pretend it's great and/or point to flaws it competitor hardware, and move on.

 

[mckmas8808]

I think you underestimate how easy modern engines can scale down graphics these days.

portable mode can easily run games at resolutions below 720p without it being too much of an eyesore due to A: DLSS and B: screen size.
or if a game targets 60 fps docked they can not only reduce settings and resolution for the portable mode, but also half the framerate if it's absolutely needed.
wouldn't be the first Nintendo handheld to dynamically change framerates, as some 3DS games switched between 30 and 60 fps when toggling the 3D on and off.

so there is massive potential to scale down simply through resolution and framerate. if a game runs at 1080p 60fps internally in docked mode, and you reduce that to 540p 30fps in portable mode, you are basically rendering only 13% of the pixels per second the docked mode renders at.
if you target the same framerate in both modes you'd still only need to render 25% of the pixels per second by going from 1080p to 540p.

on top of that DLSS has a lower frame time cost when scaling 540p to 1080p than when scaling 1080p to 2160p, which would be an automatic frametime saving right there.

so even without touching the actual shadow, AO, GI, draw distance settings etc., simply reducing the pixels you render has huge scaling potential.

I believe everything you said here, but then I question how will that game look at 540p running at 30 fps on handheld mode. I'm mainly talking about games that are PS5\Xbox Series\PC only, released in 2026 and later. I'm sure Switch 2 will get more 3rd party games when compared to Switch 1, but at what quality.

I wish Nintendo would just talk already!

 

[Trilobit]

I'm with you on it being an output thing, I want high output too, I just don't think they've found the balance. I don't need the games to look better, I need them to run better. Tears of the Kingdom looks just fine, but when it drops to 15FPS and starts running like an N64 game, that's a problem to me. They are extending these games beyond the limitations of the hardware and they (by and large) run terribly. And I think it's really weird that Nintendo fans, of which I still want to be one, simply don't care because it comes off like this company is completely exempt from any sort of criticism whatsoever. Just accept what they give and pretend it's great and/or point to flaws it competitor hardware, and move on.

Yeah, it's like the Korok Forest in BotW that dipped to 15fps. There's no point in making it when it looks bad. Same with the "realistic" cities in Super Mario Odyssey. My dream would be that Nintendo just aims for 60fps in all their games even if they end up looking a bit worse. I think it affects gameplay the most.

 

[RoboFu]

So even with a ps5 pro. nice!

 

[kevboard]

I believe everything you said here, but then I question how will that game look at 540p running at 30 fps on handheld mode. I'm mainly talking about games that are PS5\Xbox Series\PC only, released in 2026 and later. I'm sure Switch 2 will get more 3rd party games when compared to Switch 1, but at what quality.

I wish Nintendo would just talk already!

I can only compare this to me playing games on the Steam Deck, and running at such low resolutions on a small screen isn't that bad, even when using FSR2.

playing through Ghostrunner 2 at the moment. I am using FSR Balanced mode, which means an internal resolution of 742x463 upsampled to 1280x800. and it looks absolutely fine... like not amazing or anything, but it's not overly distracting.

 

[xenosys]

The Switch when it released was operating a generation behind. That's why we got technical marvels like Breath of the Wild running at a 'smooth' 20-30FPS, despite it looking like a PS2 Pro title.

No reason to believe the Switch 2 will be anything different, and it will sell regardless, because it's primary audience aren't "but muh graphix" bros. However, it will have DLSS upscaling tech to help push it past what the PS4 Pro was capable of in terms of frames and output res.

 

[Fake]

The limitations:
- Its still ARM
- Its still hybrid
- Its still have cheap components
- Less memory than?

 

[Tams]

The limitations:
- Its still ARM
- Its still hybrid
- Its still have cheap components
- Less memory than?

What do expect for no more than $400 in something that's mobile and makes a profit (which even as consumers we should be appreciating)?

It's more apt comparisons are mid-tier smartphones, but needing to come with considerably more components and peripherals.

 

[Fake]

What do expect for no more than $400 in something that's mobile and makes a profit (which even as consumers we should be appreciating)?

It's more apt comparisons are mid-tier smartphones, but needing to come with considerably more components and peripherals.

I'm expecting a more powerful Nintendo Switch and thats what I'll get. If they vastly improve the docked mode I'll very happy.

Now people are expecting 'more powerful than PS4pro' or even 'more powerful than Xbox Series S'. IDK what to say to them.

 

[loktaiextatus]

True but it’s not really like for like as the PS4 pro was probably 8 times the mass of the Switch 2.

Right but like... coming up on a decade ago.... and I dont know about 8 times, we dont even know what the Switch 2 weighs yet. But if the Switch 2 is under 14oz total then yeah I suppose thats accurate. I know youll say "screen" etc etc but I think we're just having fun here right? Point is- Will it be better at gaming than a current flagship smartphone? Likely not given its most probable target price.

 

[GigaBowser]

I think you underestimate how easy modern engines can scale down graphics these days.

portable mode can easily run games at resolutions below 720p without it being too much of an eyesore due to A: DLSS and B: screen size.
or if a game targets 60 fps docked they can not only reduce settings and resolution for the portable mode, but also half the framerate if it's absolutely needed.
wouldn't be the first Nintendo handheld to dynamically change framerates, as some 3DS games switched between 30 and 60 fps when toggling the 3D on and off.

so there is massive potential to scale down simply through resolution and framerate. if a game runs at 1080p 60fps internally in docked mode, and you reduce that to 540p 30fps in portable mode, you are basically rendering only 13% of the pixels per second the docked mode renders at.
if you target the same framerate in both modes you'd still only need to render 25% of the pixels per second by going from 1080p to 540p.

on top of that DLSS has a lower frame time cost when scaling 540p to 1080p than when scaling 1080p to 2160p, which would be an automatic frametime saving right there.

so even without touching the actual shadow, AO, GI, draw distance settings etc., simply reducing the pixels you render has huge scaling potential.

thirs post is genius i award you

 

[bundylove]

Why would you think this would be a worse gaming experience than a Steamdeck?

It’s likely to be more powerful, and will have DLSS as an additional crutch. Aside that, devs will tailor games for the device, a luxury barely anyone does for the Steamdeck, let alone the other Windows handhelds.

People play third party AAA games on the Deck and ROG Ally. The portability is the draw here.

Nintendo wisely seems to have chosen not to invest in further gimmicks. What the market wants is really a next generation Switch with much better visuals, better display and much more third party support. That seems to be what they’re delivering.

The switch 2's infrastructure as far as third party support, online support , game library will be more or less the same as it is now on the switch.
The switch 2 wont magicaly change that.

And lets be clear. Third party means ubisoft, bethesda, capcom, from soft to name a few.
And i dont count cloud versions of resi games and other games as third party support.

 

[Woopah]

The switch 2's infrastructure as far as third party support, online support , game library will be more or less the same as it is now on the switch.
The switch 2 wont magicaly change that.

And lets be clear. Third party means ubisoft, bethesda, capcom, from soft to name a few.
And i dont count cloud versions of resi games and other games as third party support.

It will be a lot easier to port PS5 games to Switch 2 than to Switch. And it will probably be easier to port a Series S game to Switch to than a One S game to Switch.

So Switch 2 is quite likely to increase Nintendo's third party support.

 

[Ozriel]

The switch 2's infrastructure as far as third party support, online support , game library will be more or less the same as it is now on the switch.
The switch 2 wont magicaly change that.

Much greater GPU prowess than the Switch IS going to change that. No magic involved.

And lets be clear. Third party means ubisoft, bethesda, capcom, from soft to name a few.
And i dont count cloud versions of resi games and other games as third party support.

Are we talking about the same games from Ubisoft, Bethesda, Capcom and From Software that run on the Steamdeck without any dedicated optimization?

The only reason many of these AAA games skipped the Switch is because of low specs. There’s no 3rd party AAA or indie developer out there that isn’t keen on tapping into such a promising market. Why would you even expect cloud versions?

 

[Brucey]

True......but if the game needs to have a lower graphics setting, then the ceiling for what the game can be (at the design level) will be limited. At 10W.....there's only but so much people should expect, because Nintendo will 100% focus on battery life more than the PC handheld makers.

Hit the easy button as a dev, port a series s game at 360p then dlss to 720p for portable, 1080p for docked mode? The people buying third party games on switch have different quality expectations than what more powerful consoles can deliver.

 

[bundylove]

It will be a lot easier to port PS5 games to Switch 2 than to Switch. And it will probably be easier to port a Series S game to Switch to than a One S game to Switch.

So Switch 2 is quite likely to increase Nintendo's third party support.

Thats the same story they said about the switch prior to release.
And yes there were more third party games on it than i would have thought.

But given current games look and run like ass on the high end consoles, look at the pro, can you imagine how lazy third parties will be on the switch 2?
Will there be enough budget and resources available to pull up a port day one? Or will those ports come out 6 months to a year later as is the xase with switch ports?
Sales clearly didnt make a difference for third parties to push their games on the switch though it has 100 plus minus milliin users.

As alwasy , i am looking at history and i dont predict a significant change like others believe.

Also what bugs me or so should you consider, the switch comes out a year or 2 prior to the the xbox and probably 2 to max 3 years prior to ps6. Meaning its already talling the end of current gen and by the time nee consoles come out it will be again back to no ports given the significant difference in power.
After all the switch shelve life will be nearly 9 years by that point. So switch 2 for another 9 years....?

Also you will get brand new steamdeck or portable xbox very soon that will cut into nintento for sure in the handheld sector.

As always, these are tales from my dirty bummhole meaning its only my point of view without any concreted evidence to aupport my claim

 

[Woopah]

Thats the same story they said about the switch prior to release.
And yes there were more third party games on it than i would have thought.

But given current games look and run like ass on the high end consoles, look at the pro, can you imagine how lazy third parties will be on the switch 2?
Will there be enough budget and resources available to pull up a port day one? Or will those ports come out 6 months to a year later as is the xase with switch ports?
Sales clearly didnt make a difference for third parties to push their games on the switch though it has 100 plus minus milliin users.

As alwasy , i am looking at history and i dont predict a significant change like others believe.

Also what bugs me or so should you consider, the switch comes out a year or 2 prior to the the xbox and probably 2 to max 3 years prior to ps6. Meaning its already talling the end of current gen and by the time nee consoles come out it will be again back to no ports given the significant difference in power.
After all the switch shelve life will be nearly 9 years by that point. So switch 2 for another 9 years....?

Also you will get brand new steamdeck or portable xbox very soon that will cut into nintento for sure in the handheld sector.

As always, these are tales from my dirty bummhole meaning its only my point of view without any concreted evidence to aupport my claim

It was very different when the Switch came out. Third parties were very wary about Nintendo after the failure of the Wii U and mediocrity of the 3DS.

Third party support in 2017 was pretty terrible. It got a lot better as time went on.

So the main differences will be:

1. Publishers will be a lot more confident about the success of Switch 2 than they were about Switch
2. Diminishing returns make it easier to port third party games to Switch 2 than it was to Switch.

I agree things could change after the PS6 launch though.

 

[bundylove]

It was very different when the Switch came out. Third parties were very wary about Nintendo after the failure of the Wii U and mediocrity of the 3DS.

Third party support in 2017 was pretty terrible. It got a lot better as time went on.

So the main differences will be:

1. Publishers will be a lot more confident about the success of Switch 2 than they were about Switch
2. Diminishing returns make it easier to port third party games to Switch 2 than it was to Switch.

I agree things could change after the PS6 launch though.

Let me throw another wrench into the equasion.

The switch2 will be a major success.

But i dont want it to become another ps or xbox.

NIntendo should stay where they are and make those games for the industry, that otherwise without them, would vanish forever.

They tried with the gamecube, at the cost of their first party output

 

[Woopah]

Let me throw another wrench into the equasion.

The switch2 will be a major success.

But i dont want it to become another ps or xbox.

NIntendo should stay where they are and make those games for the industry, that otherwise without them, would vanish forever.

They tried with the gamecube, at the cost of their first party output

It isn't mutually exclusive. They can improve their third party support without harming or changing their first party output.

What was it about the GameCube that cost them first party output?

 

[bundylove]

It isn't mutually exclusive. They can improve their third party support without harming or changing their first party output.

What was it about the GameCube that cost them first party output?

Just in general weaker first party games due to bad sales and large emphasis on third party games to be the main driving force. Gamecube had even hitman 2 on it.

It alsmost like nintendo just gave up and left everything to third parties.

Then the wii was the total oposite and the birth place of showelware.

Wii u...oh boy. Had some third party exclusives like zombiu that was tailored around the new controler, game didnt sell, other third party games looked or played way worse and uktimately became a ghost town for publishers.

 

[Woopah]

Just in general weaker first party games due to bad sales and large emphasis on third party games to be the main driving force. Gamecube had even hitman 2 on it.

It alsmost like nintendo just gave up and left everything to third parties.

Then the wii was the total oposite and the birth place of showelware.

Wii u...oh boy. Had some third party exclusives like zombiu that was tailored around the new controler, game didnt sell, other third party games looked or played way worse and uktimately became a ghost town for publishers.

Why would it make a difference though? As in, why does GameCube getting Hitman 2 or other third party games mean Nintendo has weaker third party output?

They can have strong first and third party support. Having games from MS, Ubisoft, SE etc. on Switch 2 doesn't prevent Nintendo from putting out their own games.

 

[Fabieter]

Because comparisons are about VALUE.

PS5 Pro @ $699 is still way cheaper than anything on the PC market at comparable specs for an entire system.

Nintendo Switch 2 will likely be $399-499, and if you only play in docked mode (like me), you get ZERO utility from the handheld and end up paying a $399 for hardware that's nearly 10 years old. That's a terrible value for the hardware.

The hardware isnt 10 years old. Its just false.

 

[bundylove]

Why would it make a difference though? As in, why does GameCube getting Hitman 2 or other third party games mean Nintendo has weaker third party output?

They can have strong first and third party support. Having games from MS, Ubisoft, SE etc. on Switch 2 doesn't prevent Nintendo from putting out their own games.

Well nintendo is not known to have the same output of games as the competition. Not even by a long shot.

I am rehashing their history regarding support and based on that nothing will change with the switch 2.

I just dont see how

 

[Wooxsvan]

The hardware isnt 10 years old. Its just false.

in addition, while the value is less if you dont play portable, you still get Nintendo's amazing games

 

[Woopah]

Well nintendo is not known to have the same output of games as the competition. Not even by a long shot.

I am rehashing their history regarding support and based on that nothing will change with the switch 2.

I just dont see how

Nintendo publishes more games per year than almost any other major publisher. That won't change just because they get more third party support.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I would hope so. Dlss has to help nintendo stay within current gen games to stay successful

If nintendo delivers games to the level of their current gen then they have absolutely nothing to worry about.

If they deliver on that, they will destroy the competition in sales on hardware and software again.

 

[bundylove]

Nintendo publishes more games per year than almost any other major publisher. That won't change just because they get more third party support.

And they shouldnt.
I just mean it wont make a difference when it comes to third party support.

Now all i want is for nintendo to finally tap into the high end visual market and gift us with games and game mechanics the competition cant even comprehend.

 

[Woopah]

And they shouldnt.
I just mean it wont make a difference when it comes to third party support.

Now all i want is for nintendo to finally tap into the high end visual market and gift us with games and game mechanics the competition cant even comprehend.

That will be one of their aims, as well as improving third party support.

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

So you're paraphrasing rather than quoting things as actually said and also doing this from someone who is clearly just guessing rather than hinting any kind of inside knowledge. Why are you like this? Why not just, be better?

Superior doesn't only mean more powerful, requiring less wattage for equivalent result (in game x, which doesn't mean it can also necessarily scale up to game y or z in the same way) is one such way it can be very superior

Stfu, thread has been edited since. Like it wasn't enough to have a thread about the original tweet, we get a thread for a reply to the tweet and what's next, a thread for a reply to the reply of the tweet? Whatever, enjoy it, lol.

The OP hasn't been edited, but this quote has!

 

[Hudo]

I just want a new 3D Mario, man...

 

[kevboard]

I just want a new 3D Mario, man...

100% chance it will release during the first year of the console.

probably Mario Kart 9 at launch, 3D Mario around October.
during the summer months Metroid Prime 4 and Splatoon 4.

those are my predictions. Prime 4 being cross gen.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

Prime 4 cross gen is obvious

 

[Physiognomonics]

That's exactly what they were saying of WiiU versus PS3 / X360. We know how it ended. In multiplatform games X360 > PS3 > WiiU in the vast majority of games. The available bandwith will always be a problem in graphically intensive games vs PS4 most impressive games.

 

[Kings Field]

Just keep pumping out great.games

 

[yogaflame]

For me, Switch 2 will still be number one in handheld but it will not be as dominating as Switch 1, this year and next year because of upcoming handheld from Sony, Xbox, Atari, and maybe even Samsung. there will be so many choices and tough competition.

 

[GigaBowser]

For me, Switch 2 will still be number one in handheld but it will not be as dominating as Switch 1, this year and next year because of upcoming handheld from Sony, Xbox, Atari, and maybe even Samsung. there will be so many choices and tough competition.

psp best comporsition ever annnnnnd DS selled 150 million

 

[Fabieter]

For me, Switch 2 will still be number one in handheld but it will not be as dominating as Switch 1, this year and next year because of upcoming handheld from Sony, Xbox, Atari, and maybe even Samsung. there will be so many choices and tough competition.

People also thought that mobile will kill Nintendo sales. It won't happen.

 

[Guerilla Munch]

For me, Switch 2 will still be number one in handheld but it will not be as dominating as Switch 1, this year and next year because of upcoming handheld from Sony, Xbox, Atari, and maybe even Samsung. there will be so many choices and tough competition.

Mario Kart 8 sold 65 million copies on Switch. Nobody comes close to Nintendo's first party might. All other handhelds will fight for the scraps of second place.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

For me, Switch 2 will still be number one in handheld but it will not be as dominating as Switch 1, this year and next year because of upcoming handheld from Sony, Xbox, Atari, and maybe even Samsung. there will be so many choices and tough competition.

Atari

Once again their branding is horrible