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[Magic-DEI-Hire]

You have all the games we bitch about here.
How can you not?

Because I prefer to enjoy my video games instead of bitch about them.

 

[bundylove]

Because I prefer to enjoy my video games instead of bitch about them.

Then you really have low standards or are too young and naive

 

[FUBARx89]

Because they needed some developers if not simple users on resetera to tell them

Now the question is why the idiots at Bloober have forgotten to remove PSSR from the quality mode as well. Performance mode is fine now.

As far as I'm aware it wasn't just PSSR removed from performance mode. I think it had enhanced GI and shadows in Pro Performance mode. Now it's back to basic PS5 Performance mode visual wise.

It doesn't excuse DF leaving things out though. It's like Stellar Blade. An end area of that is a flickering mess with foliage.

 

[Elios83]

Your point?

That people don't care about what you play with and trying to diverge attention from the fact that Epic has made a fantastic UE5 Pro upgrade also introducing hardware ray tracing with comments like "I don't play with this stuff" is indeed pointless.

 

[bundylove]

Because I prefer to enjoy my video games instead of bitch about them.

listen.
First of 2013 with 80 messages .

Second all these games look and run better on base ps5.
Why would i be ok to play them in a worse shape?
Why is ok to spend a 1000 canadian to get a worse experience?
Huh?

 

[bundylove]

That people don't care about what you play with and trying to diverge attention from the fact that Epic has made a fantastic UE5 Pro upgrade also introducing hardware ray tracing with comments like "I don't play with this stuff" is indeed pointless.

You dont get it

 

[Gaiff]

You’ve been blaming Sony for the 4-5 games with subpar patches instead of the actual game developers themselves

That's false.

The part that surprises me is that it made it through QA. Didn't they see that it wasn't acceptable before releasing it to the public?

That's what baffles me. You'd think devs would know better. They're the ones who are paid the big bucks to develop games. They're the ones with the tools and expertise to produce quality...but then you get this. How? An average gaffer wouldn't have greenlit this.

I certainly haven't put the blame squarely on Sony. I think it's mostly the dev, but Sony most definitely isn't blameless.

while simultaneously ignoring the vast majority of games WITH improvements.

Once again false. I will acknowledge when a game goes beyond what I expect the Pro to deliver. If the game runs exactly as I expected, why would I praise it exactly? The machine is $700 without a disc drive. My expectations are much, much higher than "good enough" and yours should be too.

The games by and large do look better - as XXL posted earlier I believe, I’ll paraphrase them when saying that I’m playing a game as it’s in motion and not standing around looking for things to criticize.

They should look better. That's the whole point of the console. This isn't impressive. This isn't praiseworthy. This is the Pro doing what it was designed to do.

Sounds absolutely mad to me that they manage to shoot for 8K upscaled whereas Alan Wake 2 does only half of that and Performance Mode at 864p reconstructed to 1440p looks like dirt. It does look better than Callisto Protocol, but not to the point where the former should be running at a resolution 2-3x higher. Not sure what Striking Distance did but, having those visuals with this IQ is impressive. It might be the most impressive Pro showcase in just raw numbers. I still prefer F1 24 in terms of graphical upgrades.

"Best ray-traced reflections we've ever seen in a racing game."

Forza still unable to do better than a cross-gen game with a 4090-powered PC.

Thus far, 2 games on the Pro have met or exceeded my expectations: Callisto Protocol and F1 24. A few have fallen way under, you know which ones, and the rest is more mixed. I was one of the ones saying the Pro was going to be roughly on par with a 4070 and it seems to fall quite a bit short so far. My expectations were perhaps too high and this is why as more games are shown, I grow less impressed. However, this was always meant to be a Sony first-party machine for me and I've been very happy with those. There's also the fact that Pro patches are being rolled out at a slower pace than I anticipated and that I was expecting 45% to be the usual even in boost mode, but it's more like 30-35% there.

A bunch of Capcom's stuff looks very good though.

 

[King Dazzar]

listen.
First of 2013 with 80 messages .

Second all these games look and run better on base ps5.
Why would i be ok to play them in a worse shape?
Why is ok to spend a 1000 canadian to get a worse experience?
Huh?

Why not return it, if you're that unhappy? You seem unhealthily frustrated with it all.

For me there's some things that rightly have been flagged. But I'm loving mine regardless. If I wasnt and was as fucked off about things like you are. Then I'd do something about it. You can always buy one again further down the road.

 

[Magic-DEI-Hire]

listen.
First of 2013 with 80 messages .

English please?

Second all these games look and run better on base ps5.

“All of these games” are worse on the Pro? You’re delusional.

 

[bundylove]

Why not return it, if you're that unhappy? You seem unhealthily frustrated with it all.

For me there's some things that rightly have been flagged. But I'm loving mine regardless. If I wasnt and was as fucked off about things like you are. Then I'd do something about it. You can always buy one again further down the road.

Why wouldnt i be frustrated?
REad my comments and you will understand.

 

[Elios83]

You dont get it

What in particular?
Your unhealthy obsession (disingenous or not) with a few botched updates ignoring all the rest?
If you're genuinely desperate about those few botched updates you can move on, return the console and play those games elsewhere.

 

[tommib]

Space Marine 2 hasn't received the PS5 Pro patch yet, but the framerate has improved.
I can't wait for the optimized update.

Taking into account how last patches have fucked up a lot of games, I’m afraid that Space Marine 2 on Pro is at its best now. You get a pretty stable game with VRR and and I haven’t noticed resolution drops. God knows what will come out of a PSSR patch.

 

[Magic-DEI-Hire]

That's false.

I certainly haven't put the blame squarely on Sony. I think it's mostly the dev, but Sony most definitely isn't blameless.

Sony isn’t developing the games you’ve been complaining about.

Once again false. I will acknowledge when a game goes beyond what I expect the Pro to deliver. If the game runs exactly as I expected, why would I praise it exactly?

Because that’s literally the whole point of the system, which it is clearly delivering on with the vast majority of upgraded games.

The machine is $700 without a disc drive. My expectations are much, much higher than "good enough" and yours should be too.

To each their own, however your expectations seem so particular that you would only seem to be satisfied via the customization afforded by a gaming PC.

They should look better. That's the whole point of the console. This isn't impressive. This isn't praiseworthy. This is the Pro doing what it was designed to do.

Indeed the Pro is doing what it was designed to do - lazy game developers however in a few cases are not.

Thus far, 2 games on the Pro have met or exceeded my expectations: Callisto Protocol and F1 24. A few have fallen way under, you know which ones, and the rest is more mixed. I was one of the ones saying the Pro was going to be roughly on par with a 4070 and it seems to fall quite a bit short so far. My expectations were perhaps too high and this is why as more games are shown, I grow less impressed.

If you were expecting a 4070, your expectations were indeed too high.

 

[King Dazzar]

Why wouldnt i be frustrated?
REad my comments and you will understand.

I was being sincere. Here in the UK you have 28 days to return, no questions asked.

 

[adamsapple]

Nice! I'll get the game now.

 

[Metnut]

Any difference with Lies of P on the PS5 pro?

Trying to decide between Lies of P, or Dragon’s Dogma 2 after I finish Metaphor.

 

[bundylove]

English please?


“All of these games” are worse on the Pro? You’re delusional.

Stop hiding behind your alt account

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Why not return it, if you're that unhappy? You seem unhealthily frustrated with it all.

This is basically the Anthem of Pro. Simple concept that I never struggled with. “I’m unhappy with my purchase”. Cool, it’s getting returned. Done.

 

[SkyHighTrees]

sum crazy shit going on here. im just waiting for my pro to arrive

 

[Magic-DEI-Hire]

Stop hiding behind your alt account

What even is your point you’re trying to make? I have one account and that’s it.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Because they needed some developers if not simple users on resetera to tell them

Now the question is why the idiots at Bloober have forgotten to remove PSSR from the quality mode as well. Performance mode is fine now.

That was the first question I had about Bloober..why the fuck would you not also remove it from quality? I'm guessing it's because they added hardware lumen and it's the only way to keep that running well? I don't know....nothing makes sense when it comes to this sh2 patch. .

It could be a matter of simply "Sony said people choose to play games in Performance mode most of the time so who cares about Quality mode". Devs care so little about what their console audience truly wants that I wouldn't put that past them. Look at Ubisoft fucking up Avatar and Sw Outlaws and just removing Quality mode in both games, knowing full well those games now suffer from worse image quality and visuals then they used to!

Here's why the Pro is a big fucking failure to my eyes right now- we are 0 for 5 with the most demanding games that have been patched: SH2, AW2, Jedi Survivor, SW Outlaws, and Avatar. Most of those games are not just not improved, they're straight up worse!

This is a failed system until this pattern gets turned around ...People saying it's on the 3rd party devs and not Sony are wrong. This means Sony screwed up not those devs- either you didn't make it easy enough to implement pssr, pssr is too flawed, or you didn't provide enough support ...whichever way you look at it it's a clear failing of PSSR with current gen games that use RT. No surprise that Sony's own games are looking better when they're all less demanding and cross gen.

 

[Gaiff]

Sony isn’t developing the games you’ve been complaining about.

They’re the ones who developed PSSR, one of the three pillars. If the solution is not to use it, Sony needs to get to work and make it usable for these games. Apparently devs have very little control over it and it’s a "black box".

If you were expecting a 4070, your expectations were indeed too high.

Perhaps, but this was the consensus on Gaf. I assumed 45% would be the usual and that with some optimization, 50% or more would be feasible. It does have 67% more compute than the base model, but the meagre bandwidth increase is probably the bottleneck.

 

[Magic-DEI-Hire]

They’re the ones who developed PSSR, one of the three pillars. If the solution is not to use it, Sony needs to get to work and make it usable for these games. Apparently devs have very little control over it and it’s a "black box".

The technology clearly works when the majority of games are upgraded and both look and perform better than prior to being patched. While I am sure the technology will continue to further improve, the failing is clearly on the developer for implementing a poor update.

Perhaps, but this was the consensus on Gaf. I assumed 45% would be the usual and that with some optimization, 50% or more would be feasible. It does have 67% more compute than the base model, but the meagre bandwidth increase is probably the bottleneck.

I love GAF, but it’s not an omniscient being.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Thus far, 2 games on the Pro have met or exceeded my expectations: Callisto Protocol and F1 24

There’s tons more that meet exceed rational expectations.

The few games with poor patches are not the norm. There’s far more good than bad

 

[bundylove]

I was being sincere. Here in the UK you have 28 days to return, no questions asked.

I wont take it back. It is what it is.
Right now i am happy with alan wake 2.

 

[bundylove]

What even is your point you’re trying to make? I have one account and that’s it.

So you just changed from magic x to magic x dei hire what??

Oh boy

 

[Gaiff]

The technology clearly works when the majority of games are upgraded and both look and perform better than prior to being patched. While I am sure the technology will continue to further improve, the failing is clearly on the developer for implementing a poor update.

I’m unsure how true this statement about it being a poor update is. We first need to see it work with the updated version before assuming that it resolves the noise and stability issue brought about by its interaction with ray-traced effects.

There’s tons more that meet exceed rational expectations.

Of a 4070? Don’t think so, but then again, it’s not rational in hindsight. 3070 Ti was more reasonable.

The few games with poor patches are not the norm. There’s far more good than bad.

I said there is more good than bad already. I still maintain that not a single game should have worse IQ.

 

[Magic-DEI-Hire]

So you just changed from magic x to magic x dei hire what??

Oh boy

Why do you care so much? Your insecurity is showing. If you’re this triggered from such a meaningless thing, then I would hate to see how you handle a real life crisis.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Of a 4070? Don’t think so, but then again, it’s not rational in hindsight. 3070 Ti was more reasonable.

Going in it was only expected to meet 4070 performance on highly optimized games, though. Like Sony first party games where consoles get priority resources.

I don’t think many expected that for your average patch, let alone rushed launch day patches

On paper it doesn’t match a 4070, so you need good closed box optimization to bridge the gap

 

[Guardian Monkey]

 

[bundylove]

Why do you care so much? Your insecurity is showing. If you’re this triggered from such a meaningless thing, then I would hate to see how you handle a real life crisis.

You are talking to a business owner with machines in the million.
I believe i handle real life just fine.

And so, yes i have expectations yes. I mean when my clients are not happy its up to me to fix the problem and do better.

 

[Magic-DEI-Hire]

You are talking to a business owner with machines in the million.
I believe i handle real life just fine.

And so, yes i have expectations yes. I mean when my clients are not happy its up to me to fix the problem and do better.

This has to do with a username change how….?

I could care less if you’re a business owner. It’s irrelevant in a video game forum.

 

[bundylove]

This has to do with a username change how….?

I could care less if you’re a business owner. It’s irrelevant in a video game forum.

Have a nice day

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

There’s tons more that meet exceed rational expectations.

The few games with poor patches are not the norm. There’s far more good than bad

How do you not see the pattern though? It's not 3rd parties implementing "bad pssr" ....it's that every actual true current gen, highly demanding games, that uses either UE5 (lumen) or AW2's Northlight with the very demanding opaque RT reflections or Avatar and Sw Outlaws with RTGI ....pssr can't handle them at 1080p and below without horrible shimmer and aliasing

If you pay attention closely you'll see some of that same artifacting even on Sony's games just to a much lower degree ...these RT features have a lot of inherent noise that PSSR can't handle....since the console isn't a beast spec wise (it's a nice bump but still has some caveats plus a meagre 10% cpu boost) any chance of brute forcing is out the window on those highly demanding games...

It's absolutely a failure of Sony, Cerny, etc and not the 3rd parties. If this console was designed better then it would easily be running those games way better than it is! Sony being silent on the issue is further support of the fact that this is their failing.

$800 with disc drive ...it's way more expensive than anyone expected and we're in this predicament. Of course there are some good examples of the Pro but none of them are demanding games on the level of the 5 games I mentioned. Some of you will be happy with whatever small improvements you get thats the problem with this debate ...yeah its great to see so many games benefitting from boost mode it's nice to have all this extra ssd storage and having great iq at 60 fps in a handful of pssr enhanced games is great too ...but your perspectives are all backwards regarding how your judging the system ...it should be judged or weighted greater on its performance in demanding games! Predicting now Space Marines 2 is not going to be a good patch either...though it doesn't have RT so that might be in its favor

 

[Gaiff]

Going in it was only expected to meet 4070 performance on highly optimized games, though. Like Sony first party games where consoles get priority resources.

I don’t think many expected that for your average patch, let alone rushed launch day patches

On paper it doesn’t match a 4070, so you need good closed box optimization to bridge the gap

You're correct. I was just optimistic that Cerny was underselling the specs. 45% faster rendering when the compute goes up by 67% seemed like he was downplaying it, but factoring in the bandwidth increase, it made sense.

I was also going with the fact that the PS5 matched a 2070S which was 2 years old at the time it came out and selling for around $500. The Pro matching a $550 4070 while being $700 itself lined up with what we had in the past, but in hindsight, the PS5 DE for $400 was an absolute steal and Sony is probably kicking themselves for pricing it so cheap.

 

[proandrad]

Here's why the Pro is a big fucking failure to my eyes right now- we are 0 for 5 with the most demanding games that have been patched: SH2, AW2, Jedi Survivor, SW Outlaws, and Avatar. Most of those games are not just not improved, they're straight up worse!

This is a failed system until this pattern gets turned around ...People saying it's on the 3rd party devs and not Sony are wrong. This means Sony screwed up not those devs- either you didn't make it easy enough to implement pssr, pssr is too flawed, or you didn't provide enough support ...whichever way you look at it it's a clear failing of PSSR with current gen games that use RT. No surprise that Sony's own games are looking better when they're all less demanding and cross gen.

Better hardware doesn’t always make a game a better experience if you change the settings. All those games have more going on than just turning on PSSR. It’s a failure at devs not looking at their games before updating them.

 

[bundylove]

Nice! I'll get the game now.

Oh lord

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

it's that every actual true current gen, highly demanding games, that uses either UE5 (lumen) or AW2's Northlight with the very demanding opaque RT reflections or Avatar and Sw Outlaws with RTGI ....pssr can't handle them at 1080p and below without horrible shimmer and aliasing

I don’t consider those games to be true next gen. There are cross gen games that look far better

They may be using advanced techniques, but at a huge cost of image quality or performance. Bad tradeoffs.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I was also going with the fact that the PS5 matched a 2070S which was 2 years old at the time it came out and selling for around $500. The Pro matching a $550 4070 while being $700 itself lined up with what we had in the past, but in hindsight, the PS5 DE for $400 was an absolute steal and Sony is probably kicking themselves for pricing it so cheap.

Well the Pro is a niche device selling with healthy margin, the base consoles are selling at near cost for high adoption

The relative “deal” of a Pro was never going to match the mass market device, just as it won’t for the top end gpus vs lower tier alternatives