rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Of course I am overreacting
But I am easily triggered by settings topic on consoles
mckmas8808
don't worry, it's just a rant
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List of PS5 Pro enhanced games
- Thread starter HeisenbergFX4
- Start date
But I am easily triggered by settings topic on consoles
mckmas8808
don't worry, it's just a rant
omegasc
Member
I know, I read your postsOf course I am overreacting
But I am easily triggered by settings topic on consoles
it's all good
DeaDPo0L84
Member
Got my Pro yesterday, coming from mostly a PC gamer with a 4090 I was really happy with the little time I had to mess around with it. I had been putting off playing LoU 2 cause I didn't want to sacrifice visuals for better performance and the new Pro mode is essentially perfect. Loaded HZD:FW which I own on PC but seeing it on my 77" OLED with surround sound was awesome. Played Rivals for a bit with a friend and it felt buttery smooth and looked great. My excitement to play more single player games has ramped up greatly, looking forward to putting more time into it.
Vick
Member
I am pretty sure he simply meant hardcore as "enthusiast".
The problem is, consoles can offer different experiences that suit different taste and priorities. Devs can't "chose for us" anymore, because someone's going to be disappointed no matter what.
You (and many others) are ok with 30fps, I (and many others) would never buy a game that doesn't offer a 60fps Mode.
You ship a game at 30fps, you lose sales, you optimize the game to the max and offer a single 60fps mode, all the "Fidelity" types would complain about how much more could have been achieved at 30fps and ask for a "Quality" option at higher resolution with the bells and whistles from PC version.
The granular options I can understand the frustration, but even those make sense most of the time, either for future proof, thinking about future console backwards compatibility, or for simple preferences. In Avatar for instance, some might not be annoyed by PSSR AO shimmering and prefer it over FSR 3 due to sharper motion.
Some people are fine with 30fps, some prefer 40fps, some would be okay with less stable 40fps by maxing out Spider-Man 2 RT settings.. some only chose 120fps modes at 80-90-100fps because fluidity is all they care about, others simply can't play at 40fps at all due to lack of 120Hz panel, some are fine with drops due to VRR, others demand stable 60fps above all else.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I understand about offering different "experiences" like 30 vs 60fps maybe.
But I am just all against redundant options. Just like in indiana jones on pc - there are SO MANY SETTINGS and most of which have no fps effect and no... no visual difference either. so what gives?
Also, it's more personal but the more settings there are, the more regret I feel switching from one mode to another.
Look at re4 ON PRO. The hair should be on (and probably upgraded to pc max) setting with no choice to disable it. It saves like 2 fps, makes no sense to disable it... AND IT'S DISABLED by default.
The RT also should default to ON. it's very little fps difference and there is nothing to gain visually by disabling it.
The HFR is good because it looks at system setting.
The CA and FIlm grain is also good because it's strictly a preference.
And 2 modes are fine but honestly in this game, Quality with everything is already 70+fps on pro. No reason for other mode but ok, I will let that slide.
Or look at stellar blade.
Pro Max mode is not the best one. The best is actually PRO mode using pssr and being 80fps. Both visually and performance wise.
And then there are all the old modes.
And the problem is that default is not the best mode. For example, in stellar blade it's one of old modes and in RE4, the hair setting is disabled on pro by default.
Leading to worst experience with casual gamers and redundancy for enthusiasts.
omegasc
Member
Naming is crazy as well: FF7Rebirth's VERSATILITY MODE lol
Vick
Member
Well, I know it feels like we're headed there I don't think that is exactly going to be the case on consoles anytime soon. lol
I agree and yet, many people actually hate Hair Strands and prefer to have it disabled. I know it sounds crazy but it's true, a LOT of people.
Again, I agree. But just look at DF Optimized Settings. Alex recommend RT off because he doesn't like the low res reflections.
I've read some people saying Pro Mode PSSR has issues with grass in one scene later on. For the time being, until PSSR becomes perfect, having the chance to select another option to play that scene better shouldn't be a problem. Especially as it would also avoid having base PS5 looking better (in that scene) than Pro, which should never happen in any case.
This is a good point. It probably comes from a lack of confidence/time/resources/prioritization with new hardware and knowing what the end user really wants. Not to mention the teething issues with PSSR. Most of the games with patches now were not originally built with this hardware in mind, so there probably isn't much scrutiny going into the implementations. Outside of basic QA, these are likely being patched with not much, if any, alpha or focus testing. Perhaps just a small team or an individual worked on it while the rest of the team had already moved on to other projects. So we are seeing a lot of "throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks" than a specific goal. Not to mention pressure from marketing to put something out there so that they can ensure a sales uptick for being PS5 Pro Enhanced.
I expect the options to be narrowed down to 1 or 2 modes (like fidelity and performance) as games get built with the hardware in mind.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
If there was no option to disable these... and these were always there, as if capcom committed to it... nobody would ever be able to compare and know about some other setting.
I am proposing not giving people the option for things they didn't know they needed.
With this logic - they could just as well offer my some crazy mega ultra hair preset that will cost 45fps but they don't.
The RT off df settings I remember and is how I actually finished the game on pc but again - if this wasn't an option and how the game shipped... I doubt anyone would complain.
Capcom gets themselves into this situations solely because of themselves
And for your last sentence - pssr should be patched if it got problems. If game looks better without it, then pssr shouldn't exist. (which I don't believe, I think PRO mode looks the best personally)
Vick
Member
But I feel most "enthusiasts" would know regardless due to PC versions.
It's about having or not that chance to use those things at lower framerate (maybe unlocked for future proof) on consoles as well.
I understand, but on base consoles those settings actually had a real impact. There you had to chose between an unlocked Fidelity (HS, RT, Res) and a Performance mode at relatively stable 60fps.The RT off df settings I remember and is how I actually finished the game on pc but again - if this wasn't an option and how the game shipped... I doubt anyone would complain.
Capcom gets themselves into this situations solely because of themselves
If the choice wasn't there, the game would have played worse on base consoles, or looked worse now on Pro.
Absolutely, but what if it takes considerable time? For instance, I wouldn't be playing Avatar right now if they hadn't allowed the choice while PSSR gets fixed.
This being said, I get your point of view completely.
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D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
No change since I last updated. It's improved but needs the light flickering in foliage fixed. Its pretty horrendous and present in all modes. They mentioned that they are working on it in the last patch notes. Some can look beyond it, I cant.
Luipadre
Member
More waiting then thanks. Hopefully they will improve things next year
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Dude.....you really are losing the plot here. Just pay attention to the options that Gran Turismo 7 offers. I think they've done it the best. You are arguing for a worse experience overall. And you assume there is always a "BEST" option.
Exactly this! Black Myth Wukong offers multiple versions. So does Stellar Blade. Now there's a default option and most will be fine with that, but I can't imagine why devs like Insomniac wouldn't include a 40 FPS option for those that have 120 Hz TVs with VRR.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
gt7 options are EVEN worse because they change what's happening behind your back.
Depending on vrr or 120hz being enabled system level, the game ends up looking different.
Also, I only sound like this. I manage all the settings and modes perfectly fine
It's more worry about the future that will probably never come like Vick said
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Also, I only sound like this. I manage all the settings and modes perfectly fine
Yeah I don't think the worse will happen in the future. Especially once console only devs get use to using A.I. base upscalers.
Luipadre
Member
After the latest Alan Wake 2 patch, balanced mode with PSSR is the best way to play. It looks really good and its a smooth locked 40 without hiccups or drops or stuttering. I already finished the game twice, but restarted again today and played a bit on balanced mode and it looks fantastic
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
yes it's much better. I wish they changed controls too but that ship has long sailed. Like acceleration and deadzones
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Jedi Survivor has this issue too. That game on Pro is so inconsistent...it can look amazing one minute then the next minute all the worst IQ issues we've dealt with for the past few years can crop up all at once.
thatJohann
Member
Ew so I just bought the PS5 Pro and immediately tried Dragon Age Veilguard since I’ve playing that on regular PS5 and it looks so much worse on the PS5 Pro. Super grainy and over sharpened like some type of noisy sharpening filter. This is both on performance and quality modes. wtf happened? Thought this one was one of the good PS5 Pro enhanced games?
Oversharpened AF
Oversharpened AF
D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
Can you show some comparison shots?Ew so I just bought the PS5 Pro and immediately tried Dragon Age Veilguard since I’ve playing that on regular PS5 and it looks so much worse on the PS5 Pro. Super grainy and over sharpened like some type of noisy sharpening filter. This is both on performance and quality modes. wtf happened? Thought this one was one of the good PS5 Pro enhanced games?
Oversharpened AF
Markio128
Member
I’m currently playing on the Pro and I haven’t noticed any graininess or over-sharpening. It looks great to me.Ew so I just bought the PS5 Pro and immediately tried Dragon Age Veilguard since I’ve playing that on regular PS5 and it looks so much worse on the PS5 Pro. Super grainy and over sharpened like some type of noisy sharpening filter. This is both on performance and quality modes. wtf happened? Thought this one was one of the good PS5 Pro enhanced games?
Oversharpened AF
thatJohann
Member
Not sure why I’m detecting this then. I’ve been playing on PS5 for 22 hours. As soon as I started it on the PS5 Pro, I noticed the difference. Maybe it’s the extra sharpness confusing me. I dunno.
I don’t have my OG PS5 anymore to compare but this scene for example looks really grainy and too sharp on the Pro
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That took an interesting turn. Did Koboh change your mind? It looks like I'm always going to be playing Respawn's Jedi games a generation after they are out :/
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Markio128
Member
I didn’t play it on base PS5, so I have nothing to compare it with. Have you got film grain on, or sharpening on your TV turned up?
thatJohann
Member
No. Same tv. Same settings. Same HDMI input. Nothing has changed.
thatJohann
Member
It’s dragon age veilguard.
I just tried space marine and I don’t see the same issues.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Yes sir as soon as I got to Koboh I experienced horror. I was touting this games Fidelity mode on Pro ... Funny thing though sometimes Koboh can look good but most of the time it's pretty horrific.
Markio128
Member
Without seeing the comparison, it’s hard to determine what you mean tbh.It’s dragon age veilguard.
I just tried space marine and I don’t see the same issues.
So what now? Pausing it or powering through?
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Most PSSR implementations are oversharpened just like this ....Alan Wake 2 is another one and can be easily seen now that you can flip between PSSR and FSR2.Ew so I just bought the PS5 Pro and immediately tried Dragon Age Veilguard since I’ve playing that on regular PS5 and it looks so much worse on the PS5 Pro. Super grainy and over sharpened like some type of noisy sharpening filter. This is both on performance and quality modes. wtf happened? Thought this one was one of the good PS5 Pro enhanced games?
Oversharpened AF
I keep seeing people proclaiming how great PSSR is "when it works well" but the upscaler has so many issues right now and isn't all that different than FSR2 even when it works. It actually adds artifacting on top of what we've already been dealing with using FSR in many games. It's not "just a handful of problematic games".
It does seem to produce a slightly sharper resolve than FSR but the same shimmer and aliasing is present in PSSR and it doesn't work well with foliage in many games or mesh type of objects (fences/grates etc)
Did Mark Cerny even address these issues the other day? I watched his initial presentation but not the follow up with DF because I can't stand them these days and didn't want to get triggered by an interview where (I'm guessing) they were afraid to ask any hard questions. Even though the instability of PSSR should be the number 1 issue addressed by Cerny and anyone interviewing him.
"Are you aware of certain games that have problematic PSSR inplementations?"
"Are you taking any steps to improve PSSR and how it interacts with advanced RT features in these games and if so, what are they?"
These are very reasonable concerns and I was so put off by Cerny avoiding them in his presentation that I couldn't bring myself to watch the DF interview. So please, correct me if I'm wrong.
omegasc
Member
the interview was done on October 30th, before the Pro was released.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Pausing but I'll come back to it just to check out some other areas, as I've already played most of the game so I can fast travel to different areas.
Ironically my first look at this games Pro implementation was on Koboh, but later into the game and it impressed me greatly so I decided to start a new playthrough where the intro area just blew me away.
That first sequence is more polished than any other so I should've known better....the next area you go to is the beginning of Koboh and it's here where everything fell apart. Now I know why people consider this one of the worst updates ...it's a mess. Foliage flickering, aliasing, the RTAO seems bugged on foliage, and when you look into the distance everything gets all smears and ugly.
Will Remedy actually take steps to "remedy" the situation?
Not for this game. But one can hope they "respawn" a better version
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Vick
Member
PS5:
PS5 Pro:
Kind of indirectly did when he specified what PSSR is, and how sharper, cleaner resolution increase is all it does and how it should never replace RT denoising or many of the tasks TAA does when it comes to reconstruction, handling of dithering and whatnot.
He said separate, PS branded solutions for each of those issues are likely on the horizon.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
OK ...even still i count this as them avoiding the issue. How hard could it have been to add an addendum to the presentation? Or have DF do a quick follow up video?
omegasc
Member
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
OK...Wukong is one game with good implementation indeed. There are games that are good if not great, all I'm saying is there are also still a lot of issues and I'm not convinced its much better than FSR3. Come on, you don't think Sony should've directly addressed this for those of us who paid $800 in the hopes of finally getting past the IQ issues we've dealt with all generation??
PS5:
PS5 Pro:
Kind of indirectly did when he specified what PSSR is, and how sharper, cleaner resolution increase is all it does and how it should never replace RT denoising or many of the tasks TAA does when it comes to reconstruction, handling of dithering and whatnot.
He said separate, PS branded solutions for each of those issues are likely on the horizon.
Even though there are games like Black Myth, Space Marines 2, Stellar Blade, LoU 1+2, Ragnarok (though something feels worse with pssr to me in this game, iq related not framerate which drops a lot as well)...
There are enough games though with pretty severe temporal instability on Pro that it's a clear concern expressed by many people that Sony should address to the public. Like I said some of the artifacting is not just in those 6-7 titles that are "bad" on Pro ...these issues are also easily spotted in many "good" pssr implementations, they're just much less frequent and noticeable. For example Stellar Blade, Last of Us 1+2, Ragnarok all have that characteristic pssr shimmer on mesh objects (at times, not all the time). PSSR is known to oversharpen the image as well in many games. So being that there are inherent issues, this absolutely needs addressing in a "comprehensive" PS5 Pro presentation like the one they just gave! Sony is purposefully avoiding the issue in choosing to only focus on for theoretical improvements of the Pro and being very vague about the "exciting future collaboration with AMD"...that could mean PS6 and not even the Pro by the time that stuff results in any major advancements. I know i want to know what they're doing now for the PS5 Pro specifically after spending $800 on it and I don't think that's an unreasonable desire.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Thank you. I know they did an interview with DF but I can't stomach DF ..did they ask "hard" questions, specifically the temporal instability and shimmering? Did they ask if Sony's working with any developers of games like Silent Hill 2, Jedi Survivor, AW2, SW Outlaws, Black Ops 6 aka the games that are known to be problematic on Pro?
I read one of the interviews Cerny did with Wolftech and as I predicted they were afraid to ask about the bad PSSR implementations, why that is, or what is being done about it ...knowing DF they probably were too afraid to ask anything that could make PSSR seem less than great too.
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Hey, when does the flickering foliage happen? I started the game on the Pro and have gotten to Toshara and even biked around the open world, testing both PSSR and FSR3 in Quality mode, and there hasn't been any flickering in either mode.
The game looks amazing so far. Only thing that looks clearly bad so far are reflections ...otherwise I'm pleasantly surprised. Riding around at dusk in this game and the game looks truly "next gen". Ubisoft man, they are one of the only publishers delivering actual next gen visuals. The game can be a bit inconsistent though but overall I'm happy with it.
I have learned though to take the early parts of a game with a grain of salt as they're always the most polished.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
This interview was filmed in October, before they saw all those issues.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Booted stellar blade again and it’s such an upgrade. 80fps in pro mode. With film grain off, the image quality looks so pristine. And no break up of anything in motion.
The original green suit has these transparent mini cloaks on the shoulders and in original release these were shimmering. Now it’s clean perfect. Render quality. Man that game is great
The original green suit has these transparent mini cloaks on the shoulders and in original release these were shimmering. Now it’s clean perfect. Render quality. Man that game is great
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D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
Tall reeds/grass near major light sources like building/street lighting. It impacts other things outside foliage. It looks like surfaces are electrified or something, when they shouldn't be. Devs quote "Also, we're aware of ongoing issues regarding foliage flickering on PS5 Pro". But even if you look past that. Do you not notice the terrible sky colour banding introduced with FSR?
Ironic that for all your critique of PlayStation and the Pro. The one game you think is amazing. Is my most underwhelming and most inconsistent, presentation wise (even though it has been improved). Good for you though. Snowdrop looks much better in Avatar at the moment btw - so you should enjoy that visually.
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omegasc
Member
You're welcome. They didn't have hands on with the console yet, so these issues were unknown. Oliver asked good questions with what he had seen in videos and the few games shown by Sony in a very controlled environment (F1, GT7, FF7Rebirth, Spider-Man, Ratchet). Since they just learned about Amethyst, spotlight was divided as well (the Pro presentation video had already happened a week or two before? it was not as new news as Amethyst).
TehGoomba7s
Member
No. We should have choice. The more the better.
BlitzerRadic
Member
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
This is not a choice lol. This is a false rejection and redundancy.
thatJohann
Member
I’m so confused. Jedi Survivor looks incredible on the Pro. Thought it’s supposed to look bad? unless it was just patched? I mean…
D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
Wait until you get to the next planet. The vegetation will be flickering all the time due to PSSR.I’m so confused. Jedi Survivor looks incredible on the Pro. Thought it’s supposed to look bad? unless it was just patched? I mean…