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[Familienoberhauptvogel]

UW flash feels bad now?

UW copy cat flash does. Copter was the cog that kept that engine going, w/o there's just no filtering.
UW flash lost 8 pieces, deck should be dead or build very differently. There's no replacing them the 3 mana vehicle is great but it's not nearly as quick nor does it help you keep on pressure through filtering. Fairgrounds warden works substituting for Ref Mage but relies very heavily on either Spell Queller or Selfless Spirit.

 

[Imperfected]

Since I'm just a casual player I never really paid attention to this but does Magic ever restrict the number of a card you can play or is it always just a straight banning?

There's a sort-of format that has card count restrictions, the Magic Duels client, but it's done in such a hilariously kludgy and thoughtless way that it's difficult to draw any meaningful observations on how it influences play patterns from it.

(The way they do it is pure rarity-based restriction: 1-of Mythics, 2-of Rares, 3-of Uncommons, 4-of Commons. It's terribad.)

 

[Ashodin]

My deck loses a lot less steam than you think because of Sram. Him + Stone Haven Outfitter are a very quaint draw engine.

 

[I am Error]

So now they'll be doing twice as many B&R announcements, expect your copy cat ban then.

I don't think they will ban it on the monday after prerelease giving this statement:

'Still, don't be surprised to see a deck like this popping up at the Pro Tour in just a few short weeks.'

WotC will probably wait and see how the combo does at the pro tour.

 

[Santiako]

I don't think they will ban it on the monday after prerelease giving this statement:

'Still, don't be surprised to see a deck like this popping up at the Pro Tour in just a few short weeks.'

WotC will probably wait and see how the combo does at the pro tour.

You misread the announcement, the next B&R is 5 weeks after the Pro Tour (March 13).

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

My deck loses a lot less steam than you think because of Sram. Him + Stone Haven Outfitter are a very quaint draw engine.

I never considered your deck in the equation. Fatal push gotta hurt though.

 

[Santiako]

Aether Revolt Limited Set Review: Blue By Luis Scott-Vargas

 

[I am Error]

You misread the announcement, the next B&R is 5 weeks after the Pro Tour (March 13).

Oh my bad.

So this part comes in effect with Amonkhet?
'Banned and Restricted announcements will now be made both on the Monday after Standard-legal set Prereleases ...'

 

[SigmasonicX]

Aether Revolt Limited Set Review: Blue By Luis Scott-Vargas

I can't help but notice he used a red card as the header.

Oh my bad.

So this part comes in effect with Amonkhet?
'Banned and Restricted announcements will now be made both on the Monday after Standard-legal set Prereleases ...'

Yes, there will be an update both the week of the official set release and a couple months later.

 

[Yeef]

Oh my bad.

So this part comes in effect with Amonkhet?
'Banned and Restricted announcements will now be made both on the Monday after Standard-legal set Prereleases ...'

No, that's how it's been for a long time. This announcement was just a week early, otherwise it would have been the Monday after prerelease.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I've been messing around more with Copy Cat and now my list is looking like this:

I'd like to slip in two more removal spells if possible, but I definitely like the Spell Quellers in the main. Flash creatures in general make the deck more annoying to play against since you're constantly putting on pressure until they give up and tap out so you can combo.

 

[Simply Sarah]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";228015380]I've been messing around more with Copy Cat and now my list is looking like this:

I'd like to slip in two more removal spells if possible, but I definitely like the Spell Quellers in the main. Flash creatures in general make the deck more annoying to play against since you're constantly putting on pressure until they give up and tap out so you can combo.[/QUOTE]

I sorta feel the deck might want to balance more on manlands instead of fast lands. Both will blink in tapped and the deck isn't looking to cast a lot the first couple turns anyway.

 

[ElyrionX]

I am a little excited about Modern now. With GGT and Probe gone and Push in, Esper Control seems to be in a much better position.

Now if only I can find time to attend FNMs.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I sorta feel the deck might want to balance more on manlands instead of fast lands. Both will blink in tapped and the deck isn't looking to cast a lot the first couple turns anyway.

I played the deck with more lands and always hated how many lands were coming in tapped. Drawing your third or fourth land and having it come in tapped sucks.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I've been trying out 6CMC Tezz and +1 Draw a Gearhulk is pretty good.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";228015380]I've been messing around more with Copy Cat and now my list is looking like this:

snip

I'd like to slip in two more removal spells if possible, but I definitely like the Spell Quellers in the main. Flash creatures in general make the deck more annoying to play against since you're constantly putting on pressure until they give up and tap out so you can combo.[/QUOTE]

that's the downside of the bans. This sort of deck becomes possible.

 

[Simply Sarah]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";228016066]I played the deck with more lands and always hated how many lands were coming in tapped. Drawing your third or fourth land and having it come in tapped sucks.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but the fast lands you're running will come into play tapped as the forth land and beyond anyway. As a third land they have an advantage but past that they're worse. It just feels like swapping a couple out for a couple more manlands might make sense since it really only matters a lot for the third land drop.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

So many scoops to Lost Legacy. Invasive Surgery might be worth looking at.

 

[Simply Sarah]

So many scoops to Lost Legacy. Invasive Surgery might be worth looking at.

Do you mean Pick the Brain because I don't think Invasive Surgery helps with anything right now.

 

[Yeef]

Do you mean Pick the Brain because I don't think Invasive Surgery helps with anything right now.

He's saying the combo deck might want to run invasive surgery to deal with Lost Legacy.

 

[Simply Sarah]

He's saying the combo deck might want to run invasive surgery to deal with Lost Legacy.

Ah! In that case I'd probably say it's not worth it except maybe 1-2 in the sideboard at most and even that is questionable to me. Negate is going to be much more useful the vast majority of the time since even at 2 CMC since it's much more versatile and I don't expect the combo decks to hit delirium very much, if ever. It also loses a lot of its value after you make your 5th land drop. It's just such a narrow card.

Basically, it feels like it's a card that only has value under very specific circumstances and mostly against one single sideboard card while there are options that still cover most cases without becoming a dead card in many others.

 

[charlequin]

Tbh that doesn't seem like a problem to me.

Spoiler

Definitely less of one than making a card completely unplayable.

When a card is unfair and broken, banning it lets the whole metagame move to completely different decks and erases its bad influence completely; restricting it means now there's a deck that's fair 75% of the time and completely broken 25%. It's a big negative impact on the degree to which skill is important over luck.

The one format where they restrict stuff, Vintage, only works because there's so, so many broken cards there that they balance out -- you're gonna draw some broken restricted card every game.

 

[Lucario]

Add Walking Ballista to the "can't combo off until this is off the board" list. It's like a shock to the face that you can slip under countermagic.

The Abzan Walkers shell w/ Ballista, Oath of Ajani, and Winding Constrictor is so close to being good. I feel like it'd be a serious contender if the cat lady deck didn't exist - it just generates so much value so quickly.

Rishkar is also overperforming; I didn't see that he could put counters on himself at first.
He's fighting for the three-drop slot with a lot of key cards, but holy shit, he's a 4/4 Fyndhorn Elder with pseudo-haste. Being able to curve any creature into Rishkar into a Big Ajani on turn 4 is amazing.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Why the one of hellion, Grimace?

Random haste dude. IDK, was just messing around.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Add Walking Ballista to the "can't combo off until this is off the board" list. It's like a shock to the face that you can slip under countermagic.

The Abzan Walkers shell w/ Ballista, Oath of Ajani, and Winding Constrictor is so close to being good. I feel like it'd be a serious contender if the cat lady deck didn't exist - it just generates so much value so quickly.

Rishkar is also overperforming; I didn't see that he could put counters on himself at first.
He's fighting for the three-drop slot with a lot of key cards, but holy shit, he's a 4/4 Fyndhorn Elder with pseudo-haste. Being able to curve any creature into Rishkar into a Big Ajani on turn 4 is amazing.

He can put 1 on himself it's basically support 2.

Decks like those are why I sideboard 2 fumigate in all white decks.

Ah! In that case I'd probably say it's not worth it except maybe 1-2 in the sideboard at most and even that is questionable to me. Negate is going to be much more useful the vast majority of the time since even at 2 CMC since it's much more versatile and I don't expect the combo decks to hit delirium very much, if ever. It also loses a lot of its value after you make your 5th land drop. It's just such a narrow card.

Basically, it feels like it's a card that only has value under very specific circumstances and mostly against one single sideboard card while there are options that still cover most cases without becoming a dead card in many others.

negate is double the mana to hold up is the issue. I've stripped so many decks clean with 4 legacies.

 

[Simply Sarah]

negate is double the mana to hold up is the issue. I've stripped so many decks clean with 4 legacies.

If a blue control deck is letting themselves be hit by 4 copies of it then either there were horrendous draws or they weren't being played very well.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

If a blue control deck is letting themselves be hit by 4 copies of it then either there were horrendous draws or they weren't being played very well.

Control decks wouldn't scoop to Lost Legacy. Unless you transgress them beforehand and/or have your own counter backup.

 

[Ashodin]

I never considered your deck in the equation. Fatal push gotta hurt though.

Yeah Fatal Push is gonna be a bitch, but luckily it's only four copies ._.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Fixed up the mana base and swapped the second negate for a shock. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with where the maindeck is. It's running more smoothly now at least.

I did kill someone by going shock, play felidar guardian to blink my gearhulk and deal 4 total to the face. That was pretty fun.

I am a little excited about Modern now. With GGT and Probe gone and Push in, Esper Control seems to be in a much better position.

Now if only I can find time to attend FNMs.

I just built an Esper Control deck list that's basically just 4 Snapcasters and Dark Confidants with a bunch of 1 mana removal spells.

 

[HK-47]

Esper Control with no Cryptics or Colonnades?

 

["God's Beard!"]

I don't like those cards. Generally.

 

[Santiako]

You can't help yourself with the discard, GB. lol

 

[Ashodin]

My cards for BW Servocrats are coming in the mail, so I can finally sleeve 'em up and goldfish some games.

I've finally found a second archetype I want to work on after my RW Equipment deck.

 

[HK-47]

lol equipment

 

[Ashodin]

lol equipment

You're gettin' the hooks.

+

?

 

[OnPoint]

You're gettin' the hooks.

Stop trying to make it happen lol

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Electrostatic Pummeler is so fun. I just wish Larger than Life was instant speed... I don't wanna splash red for a Temur energy deck (I like Kiora colors).

 

[Santiako]

Collective Brutality is so satisfying to play. I love that card.

 

[Ashodin]

I think there's a combo there. You can get Midnight Oil to keep getting +1 counters on it with it and Animation Module.

 

[Santiako]

I think there's a combo there. You can get Midnight Oil to keep getting +1 counters on it with it and Animation Module.

The first pic is broken.

 

[Ashodin]

UB Metallurgic Oil

BW Servocrats


so far, anyway

 

[Angry Grimace]

Electrostatic Pummeler is so fun. I just wish Larger than Life was instant speed... I don't wanna splash red for a Temur energy deck (I like Kiora colors).

I've never seen one that didn't have red.

I can't see why splashing for

would be particularly hard given you have 4 Aether Hub and 4 Attune.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

People keep saying Felidar Guardian is not a real card.

• serviceable body
• untaps lands
• rebuys ETB

It's not a constructed all star w/o the combo potential but it's fairly solid.

 

[Ashodin]

People keep saying Felidar Guardian is not a real card. It's actually great.

• serviceable body
• untaps lands
• rebuys ETB

It's not a constructed all star w/o the combo potential but it's fairly solid.

All they see is some weird limited fodder or that it doesn't have anything like vigilance or lifelink or something and think it's shit

 

[Angry Grimace]

People keep saying Felidar Guardian is not a real card.

• serviceable body
• untaps lands
• rebuys ETB

It's not a constructed all star w/o the combo potential but it's fairly solid.

I've had plenty of opponents bounce Torrential Gearhulks for value.

Card isn't independently great but suggesting it's worth literally nothing is dumb. Same thing as Saheeli. Having Saheeli on board completely changes your opponents play pattern for the worse.

 

[ElyrionX]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";228045548]
I just built an Esper Control deck list that's basically just 4 Snapcasters and Dark Confidants with a bunch of 1 mana removal spells.

[/QUOTE]

How's that working out for you? The guys on the Esper Control thread in MTGS firmly believe in a pure draw-go style so there's no sorcery in the main deck at all.

 

[Santiako]

Legacy cube returns again.

They've made 20 changes this time, making room for some Kaladesh and C16 cards.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

All they see is some weird limited fodder or that it doesn't have anything like vigilance or lifelink or something and think it's shit

Ref Mage technically was intended to be limited fodder, heck draft chaff won a pro tour.

I've had plenty of opponents bounce Torrential Gearhulks for value.

Card isn't independently great but suggesting it's worth literally nothing is dumb. Same thing as Saheeli. Having Saheeli on board completely changes your opponents play pattern for the worse.

Yeah I've faced Saheeli in KLD standard and in a gearhulk deck she was always solid, opponents trying to keep her down while holding up answers is so much pressure exerted just by her presence.

Faced a new combo recently the Pay EE flicker guy + 2 decoction module for infinite flickr. Paired with Pious Evangel for infinite life.

 

[Violet_0]

so, assuming the combo is dominating standard, like, it gets really bad - would Wizards do an emergency ban or do they expect everyone to just toughen it out until their next scheduled ban announcement?

 

[Transhuman]

They would clamp down on it.

 

[Santiako]

so, assuming the combo is dominating standard, like, it gets really bad - would Wizards do an emergency ban or do they expect everyone to just toughen it out until their next scheduled ban announcement?

The next b&r announcement is March 13, they're not banning anything before then.