Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
2 card combo that wins the game on the spot doesn't seem like something hard to evaluate.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Magic: the Gathering |OT10| Aether Revolt - That shit that make your Soul Burn slow
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
- Status
2 card combo that wins the game on the spot doesn't seem like something hard to evaluate.
Simply Sarah
Member
That's because they don't even pretend to care about balance when putting out new cards. Whatever you want to say about WotC they at least try.
Imperfected
Member
I always just assumed that when you play Yu-Gi-Oh you're allowed to use the banned cards as long as you give an evil monologue about how nothing will stand in the way of your victory and dress sufficiently like an over-designed villain.
I also assume my headcanon version of Yu-Gi-Oh is way more fun than the actual game.
charlequin
Banned
Magic players wind up super wrong on a lot of things that don't seem like they should be hard to evaluate.
The best part is that they don't announce when the next banlist will be up. The next banlist is long overdue. It could be tomorrow, it could be in three months. And there won't be any warning either.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
No it isn't. It's a 2 card combo that wins the game IMMEDIATELY. The line of play required for an opponent to beat a 3 and 4 CMC combo that costs 6 to win the game on the spot is absurd.
This isn't hard to evaluate.
You are in for the least fun Standard since Cawblade.
Imperfected
Member
It's rather problematic that both parts are relatively cheap enough that you can potentially afford to wait out another turn or two and back up the combo with an in-hand countermagic. Particularly since the parts are in colors that can comfortably run counters.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That's exactly what you do.
I played a Thought-Knot Seer and tapped out. I played a guy who flashed out Gearhulk, played Saheeli, copied the Gearhulk, picked up Guardian, played it, I lost.
The idea that a standard where you cannot tap out without risking INSTANTLY LOSING THE GAME FROM ANY BOARD STATE isn't just unreasonable, its going to be an unmitigated disaster for WOTC.
All the way up until March, for sure.
I mean, I don't really believe it either. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the situation.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think you guys are also underestimating the level of tilt being unable to tap out after turn 3 and then your opponent instantly killing you causes.
We're talking "quit the game of Magic" levels.
We're talking "quit the game of Magic" levels.
Mail in a Copter or Emrakul, get an Epic Card Game starter http://tinyurl.com/hkt5pkj
This is a brilliant way to get people talking/trying your game
This is a brilliant way to get people talking/trying your game
Once upon a time I played a deck that had four copies of Riftwing Cloudskate, Avalanche Riders and Momentary Blink. Often I'd blow up several lands on t5 and onwards, with Remand backup, and nobody batted an eye. Maybe Magic was simpler back in the day.
Troll was usually way bigger than a 7:7 but yeah. I still think it's tier 2 at the very least and I wouldn't be surprised to see dredge win a gp this year
Because both cards are bad on their own
But why? Couldn't they just buylist the cards, and make more than their starter deck costs?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Play against it and you'll be singing a different tune. They could literally do nothing and it would still be broken. Except both of them do stuff all the time. It doesn't matter if you can kill the combo pieces in theory because most of of the time you actually can't and its two cheap cards that instantly win the game from any board state. There's little functional targeted discard and the removal is all expensive unless it's sorcery speed.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
That's my theory behind Lupine Prototype still being 60 cents.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
All this talk about CopyCat, I would rather try and play the Fumarole/Crackdown with Built to Smash/Slip Through Space.
It's still a good card for casual and Commander. I'll be grabbing one when it drops under $10.
So, is Golgari Grave-Troll the first card to get banned, unbanned, then banned again in the same format?
Production cost of that game can't be anywhere over like a dollar per starter.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Who wants to buy 4 FNM promo Gitaxian Probes?
Who wants to buy 4 FNM promo Gitaxian Probes?
But they aren't banned in legacy.
I've played it before. It's actually pretty fun, but it's a boxed game, not a TCG. It's cool though, because there are rules for limited formats and making your own cubes included in the box (though some of them require buying extra copies and/or mini expansions).
It plays similarly to Magic, with a couple of important differences:
- The game uses a similar priority system (APNAP), but spells and abilities can't be responded to. Basically, the active player does everything they want to do, then when they pass priority the inactive player does everything they want to do. After that player is done, the active player can do more things if they so chose.
- Every card costs either 0 or 1 coins (mana). At the beginning of each turn each player receives a coin. It's a use-it-or-lose it thing. You can't stockpile coins.
....yes, but they also have to pay package and ship them out to people, which is going to cost at least a couple of dollars each
It's great marketing for your game- instead of sending the game out to YTers or sending people to cons, you are targeting hardcore cardgame players- your ideal target market, and making them feel good my getting something for free. It's legit brilliant
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Speaking of Magic like games I gave that Free to Play "Eternal" game a spin today
It really is "Hearthstone, but if it was Magic". Take Hearthstone, add in lands, instants, and color requirements for spells. It seems fun in a "fifteen minute distraction" way, I might spend more time with it
It really is "Hearthstone, but if it was Magic". Take Hearthstone, add in lands, instants, and color requirements for spells. It seems fun in a "fifteen minute distraction" way, I might spend more time with it
My whole issue with Eternal is that it's made by the same dev as Elder Scrolls TCG, and it's obvious which game is going to be their priority if they need to make any decisions
"God's Beard!"
Member
Probe ban makes me sad.
I don't personally mind the Probe ban for several reasons that stack together too well:
I dunno, I think it's a cool card. But I totally get it.
.
- It's cost is near-zero
Two life, especially early in the game? Hell, that's an insane rate to get information and shape your plans. One blue mana as an option JUST IN CASE YOU WANT IT makes it even better. Then, it doesn't even cost you a card as it replaces itself, advancing your position..
. - It slots into anything that wants it
Related to its cost again, two life to pay for it means any deck that wants it, blue or not, can use it. And the decks that do want it want it for really good reasons. Life loss and gas drawing being important in Death's Shadow, information gathering for combo decks or graveyard filling for Infect, adds to counts for Storm... it just does so much for so little..
. - It removes variance
Going in deeper on the information gathering point, this is more of a personal thing, but gathering information removes variance from the games themselves. I personally think that you should pay something more of a price than two life to know if going for a combo is safe or not. I like the idea that setting something like that up requires something of a leap of faith..
I dunno, I think it's a cool card. But I totally get it.
Hyperbole at its finest on display. Saheeli rai is not a good card on her own neither is a 1/4 for 4 mana that binks is a good card on its own when eldrazi displacer is legal. That's why I'm hesitant to say that "omg it's broken." Bg delirium is probably will really good, zombies may still be okay after losing copter, mardu vechiles got a lot of love this set, Rg energy got some love this set, and uw flash still has its hosts of good stuff cards. Sounds like a wide open format to me.
Price history. Geez dude give the market a week to settle in on her banning.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
A 2 card combo that instantly wins the game in a format with barely any answers isn't broken because you can play UW Flash and BG Delirium, 2 decks which just got eviserated by bans. In fact all of the decks you mentioned were hit by bans.
Saheeli is underpowered compared to something like Liliana, but she's still a reasonable three mana planeswalker if she's both a scry engine, combo piece, and has other value cards that you can copy. The Cat blinking things is only as powerful as the things its blinking, but the fact that you can play either combo piece in either order makes the combo very resilient. You can just run out a 1/4 if you need to and untap a land or blink some card with an EtB ability, or you can play Saheeli and try to use her to accrue value. The fact that your opponent must immediately kill Saheeli, or keep up mana forever, while you just hang out and do your own thing makes the combo, just like the Twin combo was, into a significant pressure on your opponents resources even when you don't actually have the combo pieces. If you're on 5 lands, your opponent never gets to tap out because you can just go land #6, Cat, blink land, Saheeli kill you. That's stupid.
That was a fun video, but isn't Aethersphere Harvester better than Heart of Kiran? I feel like the one extra mana is easier to use than the 2 extra crew cost.
OK OK, hold on. Let's look at it from your angle.
What card(s) answer(s) this combo efficiently?
Think of it this way: Saheeli enters on turn 3. It gets +1'd up to 4.
You're likely looking at Turn 4 combo, or Turn 4 play it safe, play a land, Turn 5 combo with Dispel.
What do you hope to use to combat this?
More like it fits in the 2 drop slot.
This is why I bought up Collective Defiance, It kills the creature and stops Saheeli.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Your 4 mainboard copies of Constructed All-Star Shock, obviously.
How does this get around Dispel backup?
Dispel hits instants.
They turn 3 Saheeli, I roast it with the Defiance bringing her to 1. LIkely they won't have anything to stop Heart of Kiran in the air or my other aggressive homies
Unless they have another Felidar Guardian in hand. Then next turn they play it, blink their 1 Loyalty Saheeli back to 3, then combo off.
Killing the cat and Saheeli in a single turn is difficult, and if you leave either piece on the board then you leave yourself open to an easy loss the next turn.
EDIT: A flier / additional creature would do it. I still feel like the amount of resources that you need to dedicate to stop the combo is alarmingly high, not to mention your opponent will be putting additional obstacles in your way.
(I made dis)
Yeah that's why Heart of Kiran is crucial. And I agree, the obstacles you have to get into there really sucks.
Hope of Ghirapur is a 1 drop flier, and Heart of Kiran will be my go-to crew-up. Hopefully both help a lot. I lost card draw with Smuggler's Copter, but I added Sram himself for card draw on cast.
- Status