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[Mibu no ookami]

the views are kind of low too. the revela has 211k views and the Gaming God Asmon Marathon's video has almost 1M in less than a day .

Now in general?.... is overwhelmingly negative.


is what the algorithm feeds on Twitter and YouTube. no need to actively search negativity.

You're smarter than this...

He has more general traffic coming through his channel most of it negative from the get go. He obviously found his viewership online and has success with that.

That doesn't mean the people clicking on his videos are representative of the target audience for this game.

You say the views are low? Compared to what?

Mafia 4 has 700K views on its main channel in 4 months. Then it has an additional 1.7 million on the PlayStation channel and 1.6 million on IGN.

The cinematic trailer for Marathon has nearly a million views in less than a week. The gameplay trailer has 760K views, the overview has 700k views, the IGN trailer has 250k views, the showcase has 211K views and other 184K views on PlayStation.

Sir Bruvian

Welcome to Bruvnation, the land of raw and unscripted content, here I talk about Games, share my experiences of Xbox games as a newcomer to the xbox ecosystem, give first impressions, react to trailers, provide the greatest skits youtube has ever seen, and sometimes mine the salt of fanboys for...

www.youtube.com

Look at this guy and tell me he isn't biased in wanting Marathon to fail.


Luke Stephens literally markets his videos as "skeptical" Are people really skeptical about every game or do we just hope games come out good?

Luke Stephens

A channel committed to deep diving into the intricacies of the gaming industry. Game news, reviews, game critiques, analyses, and extensive rants.

www.youtube.com

There's an obvious reason why neogaf and basically everything on the internet has trended negative, because negative gaming culture is its own market.

 

[clarky]

Same here 90% of my play time is solo and depending on randos in a game like this wont work

Absolutely needs a solo and duo's que but knowing Bungie they wont implement that for a couple of years.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Same here 90% of my play time is solo and depending on randos in a game like this wont work

Absolutely needs a solo and duo's que but knowing Bungie they wont implement that for a couple of years.

I agree.

And when the game is only 3 man crews, it makes it even more important that gamers work together. All it takes is 1 gamer to go lone wolfer, and now a team is down to 2. And if the 3 person team isnt great at the game or coordinated, it'll be a mess. While coordinated 3 man teams with good skills will dominate.

At least with other shooters with much bigger teams, it doesn't matter if it's TDM or an objective mode or big battle BF games. There's so many players on each team where even if some players arent good or do their own thing there's enough remaining players to still be a big enough team to win. And the bigger the teams, the more every gamer knows there might be some weaker gamers on both.

Most of my game playing on COD has always been TDM. I do well doing my own thing. And I'm sure lots of other gamers do the same. But in other shooters and MP modes you can get away being a good solo player. But I dont get a sense in an extraction game with teams, a solo player could do as well as someone zipping around in COD going 25-5 winning.

 

[clarky]

I agree.

And when the game is only 3 man crews, it makes it even more important that gamers work together. All it takes is 1 gamer to go lone wolfer, and now a team is down to 2. And if the 3 person team isnt great at the game or coordinated, it'll be a mess. While coordinated 3 man teams with good skills will dominate.

At least with other shooters with much bigger teams, it doesn't matter if it's TDM or an objective mode or big battle BF games. There's so many players on each team where even if some players arent good or do their own thing there's enough remaining players to still be a big enough team to win. And the bigger the teams, the more every gamer knows there might be some weaker gamers on both.

Most of my game playing on COD has always been TDM. I do well doing my own thing. And I'm sure lots of other gamers do the same. But in other shooters and MP modes you can get away being a good solo player. But I dont get a sense in an extraction game with teams, a solo player could do as well as someone zipping around in COD going 25-5 winning.

Yeah its a problem in Warzone and other BR's but when you are gambling with all your decent gear as well it becomes an even bigger problem.

Especially with Bungies longer TTK, soloing would be almost impossible I think.

Edit: At the very least it needs a lonewolf que so you don't get matched with premades.

 

[wolffy66]

If this was f2p it would die quickly. At $40 it's dead at birth. It's played out, graphics look generic, the character models suck, nothing unique in game play loop, and just looks boring. Huge fail.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

A moment of optimism from me:

If you dig into Extraction Shooter genre conversation, you'll find basically everybody thinks the genre isn't fully formed.

None of the games in the genre have a good solution for end game. They're all just treadmills to nowhere. Escape from Tarkovs player population drops once people fully stock their hideouts because progression slides to a hault.

Nobody seemed to ask Bungie about the end game. They're also hiding a 4th map. So they brought a bunch of Extraction Shooter nerds out to play and interview Bungie and not a single person asked them about this common discussion point amongst fans of the genre?

It's possible Marathon turns into this:

Map 1 (Dire Marsh) - Beginner map. Easy to loot. Low PvP percentage. Low loot value.

Map 2 - Intermediate - Medium risk - Medium loot value

Map 3 - Intermediate - Medium risk - Medium loot value.

Map 4 (Marathon Ship) - Difficult.
Requires purple & gold loadout to enter, high PvP percentage.

They might want players grinding the 3 lower tier "farm maps" for 95% of the time. Once your squad has the necessary purple and gold equipment to enter Map 4, you risk your high value loot at a shot at some highly difficult (dungeon, puzzle) objective in Map 4.

They might want players failing in Map 4...grinding the 3 "farm maps...attempting Map 4 again, failing...grinding...then eventually succeeding in Map 4 before Season 1 ends.

If they do something like that, all is forgiven.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

There's an obvious reason why neogaf and basically everything on the internet has trended negative, because negative gaming culture is its own market.

.
And let me guess; PR and marketing are markets driven by positive framing, right?

so, what do we have here? two opposite markets competing for the mainstream narrative.

If Bungie and Sony's PR/Marketing teams don't get this, who's fucking up? And if they do get it and still lose the narrative. what does that say about the state of the product they are trying to sell or the competence of these teams?

.

 

[clarky]

It's possible Marathon turns into this:

Map 1 (Dire Marsh) - Beginner map. Easy to loot. Low PvP percentage. Low loot value.

Map 2 - Intermediate - Medium risk - Medium loot value

Map 3 - Intermediate - Medium risk - Medium loot value.

Map 4 (Marathon Ship) - Difficult.
Requires purple & gold loadout to enter, high PvP percentage.

They might want players grinding the 3 lower tier "farm maps" for 95% of the time. Once your squad has the necessary purple and gold equipment to enter Map 4, you risk your high value loot at a shot at some highly difficult (dungeon, puzzle) objective in Map 4.

They might want players failing in Map 4...grinding the 3 "farm maps...attempting Map 4 again, failing...grinding...then eventually succeeding in Map 4 before Season 1 ends.

If they do something like that, all is forgiven.

Thats exactly what it is. They even said as much.

I think on the 1st map they gave the expected extraction rates at around 50-60% and it goes down as you move up map tiers. The 4th map being basically end game.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Thats exactly what it is.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Thats exactly what it is. They even said as much.

I think on the 1st map they gave the expected extraction rates at around 50-60% and it goes down as you move up map tiers. The 4th map being basically end game.

Can you link me to where they said this?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

.
And let me guess; PR and marketing are markets driven by positive framing, right?

so, what do we have here? two opposite markets competing for the mainstream narrative.

If Bungie and Sony's PR/Marketing teams don't get this, who's fucking up? And if they do get it and still lose the narrative. what does that say about the state of the product they are trying to sell or the competence of these teams?

.

It's funny that the shaping of toxicity online has resulted in neutrality being the measured position, when we should be inherently positive about our hobby... that's kind of what hobbies are about...

I do think they messed up the presentation. I thought it was a poor presentation and high stakes. I said it beforehand that they needed to nail it, and I thought they did a bad job.

I also think they missed opportunity to have the alpha come out right away. Similar to Sony not announcing anything on the anniversary of Bloodborne and God of War, but then probably doing it at some other point during the year. I think the reveals of Saros and Intergalactic was also bad marketing.

I think the lack of e3 is something a lot of studios haven't gotten used to and that would normally be a massive counterbalance to what is a lot of toxicity and negativity around gaming, that has convinced people that we're in a bad spot despite getting more great games than we've ever gotten.

People who don't play games complain about games they didn't play. People who don't buy consoles complain about the consoles. It's a weird time in gaming right now, but I think those of us who like to talk about gaming should take a lot of it with a grain of salt, that a lot of this online discourse doesn't really always capture reality.

 

[Gamer79]

Not for me

 

[DavidGzz]

Looks like Fortnite meets lego aesthetics. Putrid.

 

[clarky]

Can you link me to where they said this?

Luke Stephens talks about it in this video from around 4 minutes on.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

It's funny that the shaping of toxicity online has resulted in neutrality being the measured position, when we should be inherently positive about our hobby... that's kind of what hobbies are about...

I do think they messed up the presentation. I thought it was a poor presentation and high stakes. I said it beforehand that they needed to nail it, and I thought they did a bad job.

People who don't play games complain about games they didn't play. People who don't buy consoles complain about the consoles. It's a weird time in gaming right now, but I think those of us who like to talk about gaming should take a lot of it with a grain of salt, that a lot of this online discourse doesn't really always capture reality.

actually listen to that he is saying

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Luke Stephens talks about it in this video from around 4 minutes on.

I swear to God, this is the first time hearing about this.

I'm back baby. I'm sooooo back.

Mods, please auto delete all my prior Marathon posts over the last 36 hours.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

actually listen to that he is saying

I've seen this guys videos, but you seem to ignore the schtick. He is looking for views that are both positive and negative to get more engagement out of his chat. He's one of if not the biggest Bungie channels on youtube and he has a track record. He has a video up asking "Is bungie abandoning us destiny players"

If you can't understand what these guys are doing, I'm not going to be able to help you.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I've seen this guys videos, but you seem to ignore the schtick. He is looking for views that are both positive and negative to get more engagement out of his chat. He's one of if not the biggest Bungie channels on youtube and he has a track record. He has a video up asking "Is bungie abandoning us destiny players"

If you can't understand what these guys are doing, I'm not going to be able to help you.

listen to the words he is saying.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I swear to God, this is the first time hearing about this.

I'm back baby. I'm sooooo back.

Mods, please auto delete all my prior Marathon posts over the last 36 hours.

Dude you're beyond bipolar...

 

[Radical_3d]

They might want players failing in Map 4...grinding the 3 "farm maps...attempting Map 4 again, failing...grinding...then eventually succeeding in Map 4 before Season 1 ends.

If they do something like that, all is forgiven.

Yeah! That sounds so fun! I swear I don't understand the modern gamer.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Yeah! That sounds so fun! I swear I don't understand the modern gamer.

People don't understand the genre, or the importance of progression.

So much conversation about art style and gunfeel which is a complete waste of time. Progression is king.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I swear to God, this is the first time hearing about this.

I'm back baby. I'm sooooo back.

Mods, please auto delete all my prior Marathon posts over the last 36 hours.

As I said earlier, you weren't paying attention.

A streamer got to play the last level, it's on the ship in the moon. It has badass enemies from legacy marathon. It is raid like with puzzles.

Basically marathon's equivalent to vault of glass. It's coming out later because they want players to take time understanding the game and getting better.

Bungie knows what they're doing

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

You're smarter than this...

He has more general traffic coming through his channel most of it negative from the get go. He obviously found his viewership online and has success with that.

That doesn't mean the people clicking on his videos are representative of the target audience for this game.

You say the views are low? Compared to what?

Mafia 4 has 700K views on its main channel in 4 months. Then it has an additional 1.7 million on the PlayStation channel and 1.6 million on IGN.

The cinematic trailer for Marathon has nearly a million views in less than a week. The gameplay trailer has 760K views, the overview has 700k views, the IGN trailer has 250k views, the showcase has 211K views and other 184K views on PlayStation.

Sir Bruvian

Welcome to Bruvnation, the land of raw and unscripted content, here I talk about Games, share my experiences of Xbox games as a newcomer to the xbox ecosystem, give first impressions, react to trailers, provide the greatest skits youtube has ever seen, and sometimes mine the salt of fanboys for...

www.youtube.com

Look at this guy and tell me he isn't biased in wanting Marathon to fail.


Luke Stephens literally markets his videos as "skeptical" Are people really skeptical about every game or do we just hope games come out good?

Luke Stephens

A channel committed to deep diving into the intricacies of the gaming industry. Game news, reviews, game critiques, analyses, and extensive rants.

www.youtube.com

There's an obvious reason why neogaf and basically everything on the internet has trended negative, because negative gaming culture is its own market.

Are you a corpo suit or gamer? Who gives a shit about how many views a trailer got, how does that equate to game doing well? Of course it will and SHOULD have lots of eyeballs on it, its Bungie, world famous for HALO. But it doesnt change the fact that the game looks bland, a simple extraction shooter at $50 with 3.....THREE...TRES maps lol. How pathetic is this for gaming, its an embaressment to even call it a game.

I mean what exactly is it here that we should get excited about? Theres like over 30 extraction shooters out there already, mostly f2p. Gamers vote with their wallets, why is it "toxic or negative" not to like a game? I love FPS and this looks like SHIT. The same way you say pepople are negative for no reason, I will say people are hyping the game for no reason too. Marathon was not even a blip on the map when it came out. Nobody talked about it, nobody cared, we had Quake and Doom. The only reason Marathon is even in the gaming dictionary is because finally Apple computer had their own shooter. Thats it. It was never considered a quality shooter, a "classic". So you people hyping a turd I will never understand why.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

As I said earlier, you weren't paying attention.

A streamer got to play the last level, it's on the ship in the moon. It has badass enemies from legacy marathon. It is raid like with puzzles.

Basically marathon's equivalent to vault of glass. It's coming out later because they want players to take time understanding the game and getting better.

Bungie knows what they're doing

Oh I was definitely paying attention. Nobody I watched talked about this grind to the 4th map. It was all a focus on art, moment to moment gameplay, AI, payment model.

That Friends Per Second podcast makes so much more sense now. None of them understood this was the hook.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

 

[Varteras]

As I said earlier, you weren't paying attention.

A streamer got to play the last level, it's on the ship in the moon. It has badass enemies from legacy marathon. It is raid like with puzzles.

Basically marathon's equivalent to vault of glass. It's coming out later because they want players to take time understanding the game and getting better.

Bungie knows what they're doing

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Are you a corpo suit or gamer? Who gives a shit about how many views a trailer got, how does that equate to game doing well? Of course it will and SHOULD have lots of eyeballs on it, its Bungie, world famous for HALO. But it doesnt change the fact that the game looks bland, a simple extraction shooter at $50 with 3.....THREE...TRES maps lol. How pathetic is this for gaming, its an embaressment to even call it a game.

I mean what exactly is it here that we should get excited about? Theres like over 30 extraction shooters out there already, mostly f2p. Gamers vote with their wallets, why is it "toxic or negative" not to like a game? I love FPS and this looks like SHIT. The same way you say pepople are negative for no reason, I will say people are hyping the game for no reason too. Marathon was not even a blip on the map when it came out. Nobody talked about it, nobody cared, we had Quake and Doom. The only reason Marathon is even in the gaming dictionary is because finally Apple computer had their own shooter. Thats it. It was never considered a quality shooter, a "classic". So you people hyping a turd I will never understand why.

Click views mean nothing.

I remember last year or the year before some gamers would console wars about views = sales. Haha… my video got more views so yup that's why it got more sales.

Then people would bring up Nintendo games don't seem to get a ton of views comparatively speaking and sell shit loads more copies than any Sony or Ms game.

Shut up every warrior in that thread.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

9 min

9 minutes in

 

[Killjoy-NL]

This game is DOA (especially on console) since the game seems to be extraction mode only. Maybe on PC, it'll have a chance. But for console gamers, I dont get a sense the typical shooter fan wants to play a style of game more similar to one death Tarkov, than COD or a BR mode game where the key focus is just killing people or respawning as many times as needed meat grinding in TDM, Domination or Hardpoint.

We know fuck all about how the market will react.

When Sony released Demon's Souls, they didn't have much faith in it and initially only released ~700K copies iirc.
In an interview, Yoshida even admitted he thought the game was shit at first.

Anything can happen, it all depends on the quality of the product.
And on consoles, there is barely any extraction shooters on the market.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Are you a corpo suit or gamer? Who gives a shit about how many views a trailer got, how does that equate to game doing well? Of course it will and SHOULD have lots of eyeballs on it, its Bungie, world famous for HALO. But it doesnt change the fact that the game looks bland, a simple extraction shooter at $50 with 3.....THREE...TRES maps lol. How pathetic is this for gaming, its an embaressment to even call it a game.

I mean what exactly is it here that we should get excited about? Theres like over 30 extraction shooters out there already, mostly f2p. Gamers vote with their wallets, why is it "toxic or negative" not to like a game? I love FPS and this looks like SHIT. The same way you say pepople are negative for no reason, I will say people are hyping the game for no reason too. Marathon was not even a blip on the map when it came out. Nobody talked about it, nobody cared, we had Quake and Doom. The only reason Marathon is even in the gaming dictionary is because finally Apple computer had their own shooter. Thats it. It was never considered a quality shooter, a "classic". So you people hyping a turd I will never understand why.

If you don't understsand the context in which someone is responding to someone else, maybe you should read what they're responding to first.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Are they insane

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

actually listen to that he is saying

I donno is it just me but I ABSOLUTELY hate when I see "my "honest" review/preview/opinion....so what is the alternative, everyone else is dishonest? So many reviewes now feature this HONEST word as if it makes more valid lol.

 

[MMaRsu]

Thats exactly what it is. They even said as much.

I think on the 1st map they gave the expected extraction rates at around 50-60% and it goes down as you move up map tiers. The 4th map being basically end game.

Damn so only 4 maps? The fourth is endgame already? Lmao

 

[clarky]

Damn so only 4 maps? The fourth is endgame already? Lmao

The same as Hunt, actually more that that game. I dont get it, what are you expecting? 12 large extraction shooter maps day one? Who did that at launch?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

The same as Hunt, actually more that that game. I dont get it, what are you expecting? 12 large extraction shooter maps day one? Who did that at launch?

I think people don't really get the concept of extraction shooters and are thinking too much about hero shooters and something like Apex, maybe even traditional PvP mp.

Which makes sense, because before I played Hunt Showdown, I also didn't really get it.

 

[MMaRsu]

The same as Hunt, actually more that that game. I dont get it, what are you expecting? 12 large extraction shooter maps day one? Who did that at launch?

Havent played Hunt, never looked interesting to me.

4 maps seems very low.

Tarkov has what like 10 maps now?

How are they already creating endgame shit when the game isnt even done yet

 

[clarky]

Havent played Hunt, never looked interesting to me.

4 maps seems very low.

Tarkov has what like 10 maps now?

4 maps would be low in an arena shooter. Not in a game like this.

The Hunt had the e 3 maps for years
DMZ only launched with one
Ive not played Tarkov in years but didn't that only have the one map to start with also?

Do you have any experience playing these types of games?

 

[MMaRsu]

I also find it hilarious the supposedly 'secret' thing is just then having a lot of easter eggs ala Black Ops Zombies around the map.

I never understood or liked Zombies and its easter eggs, who gives a shit.

Like same with the Lore in marathon. I really dont care about your shit ass Story Bungie.

Is there anything substantial to get? Or am I just going out there to find easter eggs you thought were sooo amazing

 

[MMaRsu]

4 maps would be low in an arena shooter. Not in a game like this.

The Hunt had the e 3 maps for years
DMZ only launched with one
Ive not played Tarkov in years but didn't that only have the one map to start with also?

Do you have any experience playing these types of games?

I have over 1500 hours in Tarkov yes.

Dmz,lol why would I try that garbage?

The hunt doesnt interest me, boring setting. But it having three maps, what are they like a small studio compared to Bungie?

Bungie should be setting examples and leading the charge, as an industry leader in fps as you say

Sadley they are just chasing trends

 

[clarky]

How are they already creating endgame shit when the game isnt even done yet

Yeah now I get it. You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[MMaRsu]

Yeah now I get it. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Riiiiiight. How about focussing on the basics first and worry about endgame if your game is even a success?

Endgame when the game has just come out?

I think you have no idea, do you have any hours in Tarkov at all? The only real extraction shooter on the market?

Hunt is totally different

Do we even know what this games endgame entails? Is there a hideout you're upgrading? What do you do with the loot you find?

What are you working towards?

This is information thats crucial
Finding easter eggs is not endgame content

 

[Vindicator]

As I said earlier, you weren't paying attention.

A streamer got to play the last level, it's on the ship in the moon. It has badass enemies from legacy marathon. It is raid like with puzzles.

Basically marathon's equivalent to vault of glass. It's coming out later because they want players to take time understanding the game and getting better.

Bungie knows what they're doing

Like a Destiny raid where you do puzzles/mechanics, aquire your hard earned loot... only to get killed by some other players maybe.
Could be different ofc, still curious what the final activity will be, with the time limit in play.
Mentioning the ship made me realize what was missing from the gameplay reveal - those crazy megastructures, be it Halo Forerunner stuff or the Leviathan from Destiny.

 

[clarky]

Riiiiiight. How about focussing on the basics first and worry about endgame if your game is even a success?

Endgame when the game has just come out?

I think you have no idea, do you have any hours in Tarkov at all? The only real extraction shooter on the market?

Hunt is totally different

Do we even know what this games endgame entails? Is there a hideout you're upgrading? What do you do with the loot you find?

What are you working towards?

This is information thats crucial
Finding easter eggs is not endgame content

Would be a bit silly not to have some sort of endgame in place. Its not something you build after the fact. Sure fire way to lose whatever players you have if theres nothing to do.


Whether the endgame in Marathon will be a good enough hook or not remains to be seen. But at the moment looks like progession revolves around grinding your way up through different maps with varying degrees of difficulty.

Seem like for you "its not Tarkov so im not playing". Which is fine of course.

To answer your question I probably have around 100 hour or so in Tarkov, I can't play KBM anymore for any length of time due to injury. But I did like that game quite a bit.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

angry joe?

Remember his take on Destiny and see how that went. Angry Joe has really bad taste in games - probably because he's not invited to gameplay tests. He should change his channel name to Grifter Joe.

 

[clarky]

Remember his take on Destiny and see how that went. Angry Joe has really bad taste in games - probably because he's not invited to gameplay tests. He should change his channel name to Grifter Joe.

To be fair Destiny launched in an absolute terrible state if it wasn't for that games "endgame" in VOG then it would have been dead and buried a long time ago.

But yeah I don't care for Joe's taste in games either. Plus I find him annoying as fuck at times.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

To be fair Destiny launched in an absolute terrible state if it wasn't for that games "endgame" in VOG then that game would have been dead and buried a long time ago.

Agreed, but he practically doomed it. Even in a bad state it was just too fun killing things (and other players) to let it go.

 

[near]

Is there anything substantial to get? Or am I just going out there to find easter eggs you thought were sooo amazing

I think that's the whole point of solving the puzzles and secrets in the game. You'll be rewarded for it, and it will be sort of reward that does not wipe seasonally.

 

[clarky]

Agreed, but he practically doomed it. Even in a bad state it was just too fun killing things (and other players) to let it go.

If there was ever a game where I thought "this can't be it surely" it was Destiny. The only reason I gave it more than 5 minutes was Bungie and Halo.

The PVP was so bad and the materials grind was obsurd. But then I played VOG and it clicked.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

If there was ever a game where I thought "this can't be it surely" it was Destiny. The only reason I gave it more than 5 minutes was Bungie and Halo.

The PVP was so bad and the materials grind was obsurd. But then I played VOG and it clicked.

I remember during the D1 alpha thinking the backgrounds were placeholder because Bungie promised we could "go anywhere". Lol

The game was extremely barebones at launch.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

When Destiny launched, the market was much more open to this kind of games, even if they sucked. People have become more demanding and some stuff doesnt fly in the current market. Studios need to up their game to get people's interest.

I have the impression that Bungie believes the year is still 2010.