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Media Create Sales: 1/1 - 1/7

S

Square2005

Banned
Kobun Heat said:
explanationxh8.jpg
Click to expand...
...!?
Whoa! Uh, what's going on in this thread...!?
 
G

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
But... The power lines don't go anywhere but over the house! Where is the electricity coming from??
 
T

the thoroughbred

Member
PLEASE READ

I haven't planned this out too well, but here goes.

These 'non-games' have done well. I don't like using that word 'non-games'. Even a tradition game is by any standards something like solitaire. I think that so called 'non-gamers' haven't been playing games because it was too fantasy for them. I mean my dad watching a video game of mine, would look at it as a waste of life. He watches the news, reads papers, goes to work, works hard, almost 16 hours a day. My mother similar lifestyle. They go out with family and friends, to bars, to restaurants etc. Thats their leisure. Thats how they waste there time. If there is something that would earn them more money, they are interested. They want to know more. If there is something that could save them time, they want to know. E.g. they take the quickest transport method, but they won't learn to use there mobile phone, which in turn would've saved them time. I guess this is a slight case of "can't teach an old dog new tricks". If there is something slightly challenging them, something that can help them forget the troubles of everyday life they do that. Recently (last 2 years or so) they have got into solitaire on windows, my mother has been doing wordsearched and crosswords for years and now does sudoku. I have shown my parents video games and they admire it, but see it as something that is going to make me a man, isn't going to get me a career, isn't going to get me respect, and therefore shouldn't be done until the more important things in life are accomplished. They haven't played BT yet. I haven't given them a DS yet. But I know they will be hooked to it. I know my parents.

My point is, they can relate to it. Obviously, I use my parents as an example, as they would be considered by many to be non-gamers, whether they play solitaire or not on the PC. Relate to it? you ask, allow me to elaborate. For them BT would be something that would easily allow them to escape life for a few minutes a day. Its like meditating, doing mundane tasks, to allow other parts of your brain to rest. I know I do it all the time, whenever there is an essay due in a few hours that I haven't started I start panicing and doing silly things like sudoku, the task of intensive thought on something, keeps me from stressing over the essay. Also they feel that it is helping there brain, now its still a game, even more still a video game, it just attracts a different type of person. I think its the idea of the game being educational which makes some think its not a leisurely or hobby like activity, because its educational. Not like watching a film, more like the news or documentary. But there are many people who find hobbies on things that others find work. Its all about being able to see through others eyes. I mean there are kids who do spelling bee's. The are people who bird watch, write about trains, love maths, can taste wines so accurately I feel like bowing down to them. Loads of wierdo's in this world, we all are to a certain extent. Hell the world is filled with murderers, rapists and pedo's, yet to have a hobby in something educational makes it non gaming. I mean say for 4 maths wizzes decided "hey lets play a GAME, who can answer these the quickest ", now if nintendo make it a DS game, and there are people that buy it and play online against each other, its not a game is it? Off course it is. Now the fact that this discussion is, shows that these games are genre bending. Others like cooking navi, or dictionaries off course are just software.

In conclusion, (I have no idea where I am going with this anymore) people relate to these 'non-games'. Just because its not expressing an art in the more gamer sense, its still a game played on a computer system, that also helps your intelligence. Now just because its a different demographic dabbling into ones hobby, but liking the opposite team so-to-speak, don't get angry with them, be supportive of the sport, don't label.

Ok thats it. Maybe I will edit in a while, after a bit of hindsight.
 
M

Mar

Member
LanceStern said:
Brain training and the like are certainly not traditional or real games.
Click to expand...

Pack it up people. We've all been playing an imaginary game. Man, are Nintendo going to be pissed when it finds out it didn't actually make all that money.
 
K

kisakiproject

Member
Poor Lance. We should have 2 m-create threads. 1 for nintendo fanboys and one for everyone else(though due to the nature of sales I think everyone else stopped caring). As any discussion turns into "rah nintendo am teh best touch gen ftw." Anything that isn't DS and Wii is considered a flop now a days.

Its funny everytime someone outlines what they feel is a non-game is nintendo fans come out of the woodwork to defend its "gameness." Didn't nintendo themselves call these titles non-games? So doesn't that make them not games?

So lets talk about something that isn't just nintendo fanboy trolling about how great non-gaming is. Like DBZ Wii has great first week sales and is an example of how 3rd parties can sell well on Wii.
 
B

Brak

Member
kisakiproject said:
Poor Lance. We should have 2 m-create threads. 1 for nintendo fanboys and one for everyone else(though due to the nature of sales I think everyone else stopped caring). As any discussion turns into "rah nintendo am teh best touch gen ftw." Anything that isn't DS and Wii is considered a flop now a days.

Its funny everytime someone outlines what they feel is a non-game is nintendo fans come out of the woodwork to defend its "gameness." Didn't nintendo themselves call these titles non-games? So doesn't that make them not games?

So lets talk about something that isn't just nintendo fanboy trolling about how great non-gaming is. Like DBZ Wii has great first week sales and is an example of how 3rd parties can sell well on Wii.
Click to expand...
It's just reality man, it has nothing to do with console loyalty or whatever conspiracy that you're seeing.

This is GAF. Not some fan message board for whatever company you like. If someone is acting deluded or just plain spouting bs, they get called on it. This happens in every thread.

It just looks worse in the MC threads because the facts are so overwhelmingly against people like Mono who try to spin garbage into gold.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
the thoroughbred said:
In conclusion, (I have no idea where I am going with this anymore) people relate to these 'non-games'. Just because its not expressing an art in the more gamer sense, its still a game played on a computer system, that also helps your intelligence. Now just because its a different demographic dabbling into ones hobby, but liking the opposite team so-to-speak, don't get angry with them, be supportive of the sport, don't label.
Click to expand...
I think people just need to expand their definition of "game" and end it already.
 
K

kisakiproject

Member
What is a game is expanding. How ever calling non-games games is ridiculous. As they were not intended to be games in a traditional sense. Nintendo even said that they were "non-games" intentionally seperating them from the rest of the market.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
kisakiproject said:
What is a game is expanding. How ever calling non-games games is ridiculous. As they were not intended to be games in a traditional sense. Nintendo even said that they were "non-games" intentionally seperating them from the rest of the market.
Click to expand...
Then a better term needs to be developed. I ate a non-game for lunch and read a non-game called EGM that came in the mail today. Describing what something isn't rather than what it is, is pretty inadequate. I suppose it's just growing pains, until people figure out what they should be called; new genres are a bitch to label. In the meantime I see a lot of anguish over what amounts to semantics. It's interactive software that people buy on gaming systems for their enjoyment. But that doesn't roll off the tongue. I hope someone figures out a phrase that sticks because this games vs. non-games stuff is getting old. Until then I'll just call them games.
 
D

Deku

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
Then a better term needs to be developed. I ate a non-game for lunch and read a non-game called EGM that came in the mail today. Describing what something isn't rather than what it is, is pretty inadequate. I suppose it's just growing pains, until people figure out what they should be called; new genres are a bitch to label. In the meantime I see a lot of anguish over what amounts to semantics. It's interactive software that people buy on gaming systems for their enjoyment. But that doesn't roll off the tongue. I hope someone figures out a phrase that sticks because this games vs. non-games stuff is getting old. Until then I'll just call them games.
Click to expand...

The problem is lot of games, are being reclassified incorrectly deliberately by the same people complaining about Nintendo fanboyism on Media create threads. It would be akin to some

A software that isn't a game, would be a visual novel, a UMD movie, or an e-book. If a software isn't just a bunch of flip cards but allow for tracking high scores, exercises my reflexes and memory skills, they can be classified as games.
 
E

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
no, BT and AC are ****ing GAMES. BT even has high scores and stats so yeah it's a certified game in my book, the non-game bs needs to stop.

whether you like them or not that's another issue, but trying to troll the DS success because of the 'non-games' and because they are suddenly going to destroy the industry (completely ignoring the fact that they are cheap to make) is stupid.
 
K

kisakiproject

Member
Nintendo said Brain Age was a Non-game so take it up with them.

As for Animal Crossing its definatly a game in the traditional sense of the word.
 
E

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
where did they say that? if you find a quote with a link then I'll believe you.
 
B

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
Deku said:
The problem is lot of games, are being reclassified incorrectly deliberately by the same people complaining about Nintendo fanboyism on Media create threads. It would be akin to some

A software that isn't a game, would be a visual novel, a UMD movie, or an e-book. If a software isn't just a bunch of flip cards but allow for tracking high scores, exercises my reflexes and memory skills, they can be classified as games.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I would have no problems with someone calling Cooking Navi or dictionary software non-games, but that term is wrongly applied (usually in a derogatory manner) to way too many titles.
 
K

kisakiproject

Member
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/...e1888e949-8BC2B202-C09F-3E62-0527474CB07D838A
Let me give you one example of what we’re working on ... Internally we’re developing Animal Crossing Wi-Fi. We chose this property for a couple of reasons. First, it is one of those “non-game games” I mentioned—a form of entertainment that really doesn’t have a winner, or even a real conclusion. And because of its unrestrained pace of action, it avoids wireless latency issues. Before, you could take Animal Crossing to a different village. Now, with Wi-Fi, you can take it around the world. So, we feel that our form of free and easy wireless play helps move our industry in a new direction. But we are making similar moves in software as well.
Click to expand...

I'll revise my statement. They called them non-game games. Which does still qualify them as games but still differentiates them. However things like Kanji dictionaries can't possibly be considered games. Though DS does have a great interface to teach Kanji's. These kinds of software. Which are PDA software shouldn't be tracked along wiht games sales.

BorkBork said:
Agreed. I would have no problems with someone calling Cooking Navi or dictionary software non-games, but that term is wrongly applied (usually in a derogatory manner) to way too many titles.
Click to expand...


Agreed. I played AC on GCN and it was a fun game.
 
E

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
that's a stupid quote. wtf is a non-game game anyway? that quote isnt exactly saying anything.

he is saying it's a non-game but then follows that up saying it's a game... I dont know what Iwata was trying to say there.
 
T

TheGreatDave

Banned
If it has a challange and you have to interact to complete it, it's a game. If the software is a tool, it's just an application. Brain Training is a simple game, but still a game. Cooking Navi or the M06 guitar software are not games.
 
J

jj984jj

He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
There isn't much that couldn't be called a game on the DS. A list of non-games would include everything that really has no goals, no saves, or something you'd simply use as a tool. Electoplankton, M06, 1000 Recipes, and all the dictionary software would fit into that category. Other than that, whether the game appeals to the non-gamer or not, it can't correctly be called a non-game unless it's simply from a personal view, but games like Brain Training and Cooking Mama are not factually non-games.

Edit: I was. :lol My bad. Thanks Bork.
 
E

Earthstrike

Member
the thoroughbred said:
PLEASE READ

I haven't planned this out too well, but here goes.

These 'non-games' have done well. I don't like using that word 'non-games'. Even a tradition game is by any standards something like solitaire. I think that so called 'non-gamers' haven't been playing games because it was too fantasy for them. I mean my dad watching a video game of mine, would look at it as a waste of life. He watches the news, reads papers, goes to work, works hard, almost 16 hours a day. My mother similar lifestyle. They go out with family and friends, to bars, to restaurants etc. Thats their leisure. Thats how they waste there time. If there is something that would earn them more money, they are interested. They want to know more. If there is something that could save them time, they want to know. E.g. they take the quickest transport method, but they won't learn to use there mobile phone, which in turn would've saved them time. I guess this is a slight case of "can't teach an old dog new tricks". If there is something slightly challenging them, something that can help them forget the troubles of everyday life they do that. Recently (last 2 years or so) they have got into solitaire on windows, my mother has been doing wordsearched and crosswords for years and now does sudoku. I have shown my parents video games and they admire it, but see it as something that is going to make me a man, isn't going to get me a career, isn't going to get me respect, and therefore shouldn't be done until the more important things in life are accomplished. They haven't played BT yet. I haven't given them a DS yet. But I know they will be hooked to it. I know my parents.

My point is, they can relate to it. Obviously, I use my parents as an example, as they would be considered by many to be non-gamers, whether they play solitaire or not on the PC. Relate to it? you ask, allow me to elaborate. For them BT would be something that would easily allow them to escape life for a few minutes a day. Its like meditating, doing mundane tasks, to allow other parts of your brain to rest. I know I do it all the time, whenever there is an essay due in a few hours that I haven't started I start panicing and doing silly things like sudoku, the task of intensive thought on something, keeps me from stressing over the essay. Also they feel that it is helping there brain, now its still a game, even more still a video game, it just attracts a different type of person. I think its the idea of the game being educational which makes some think its not a leisurely or hobby like activity, because its educational. Not like watching a film, more like the news or documentary. But there are many people who find hobbies on things that others find work. Its all about being able to see through others eyes. I mean there are kids who do spelling bee's. The are people who bird watch, write about trains, love maths, can taste wines so accurately I feel like bowing down to them. Loads of wierdo's in this world, we all are to a certain extent. Hell the world is filled with murderers, rapists and pedo's, yet to have a hobby in something educational makes it non gaming. I mean say for 4 maths wizzes decided "hey lets play a GAME, who can answer these the quickest ", now if nintendo make it a DS game, and there are people that buy it and play online against each other, its not a game is it? Off course it is. Now the fact that this discussion is, shows that these games are genre bending. Others like cooking navi, or dictionaries off course are just software.

In conclusion, (I have no idea where I am going with this anymore) people relate to these 'non-games'. Just because its not expressing an art in the more gamer sense, its still a game played on a computer system, that also helps your intelligence. Now just because its a different demographic dabbling into ones hobby, but liking the opposite team so-to-speak, don't get angry with them, be supportive of the sport, don't label.

Ok thats it. Maybe I will edit in a while, after a bit of hindsight.
Click to expand...


You don't honestly expect people to read all that do you? What the hell do you think this is? Some kind of library?
 
G

Greenpanda

Banned
Error2k4 said:
BT even has high scores and stats so yeah it's a certified game in my book, the non-game bs needs to stop.
Click to expand...

The last math exam I took had high scores and stats, too, but that doesn't make it a game.
 
E

ethelred

Member
Greenpanda said:
The last math exam I took had high scores and stats, too, but that doesn't make it a game.
Click to expand...

Comparing Brain Age to a math exam is like comparing Dance Dance Revolution to the prom. Congratulations on successfully failing the art of metaphor.
 
G

Greenpanda

Banned
ethelred said:
Comparing Brain Age to a math exam is like comparing Dance Dance Revolution to the prom. Congratulations on successfully failing the art of metaphor.
Click to expand...

If Nintendo released DDR for the DS, Nbots would compare it to the prom :p.

Seriously, this is just getitng out of hand. Anything is a game if it has challenge and you have to interact to complete it? Shoveling the snow off my car is a challenge and I had to interact to complete that; I guess that's a game now! SHOVELING THE SNOW OFF YOUR CAR TRAINING CONFIRMED

DS fanboys' views of gaming reminds me of people who insist that you can put a urinal in an art gallery and it's modern art.
 
J

jman2050

Member
Greenpanda said:
If Nintendo released DDR for the DS, Nbots would compare it to the prom :p.

Seriously, this is just getitng out of hand. Anything is a game if it has challenge and you have to interact to complete it? Shoveling the snow off my car is a challenge and I had to interact to complete that; I guess that's a game now! SHOVELING THE SNOW OFF YOUR CAR TRAINING CONFIRMED

DS fanboys' views of gaming reminds me of people who insist that you can put a toilet seat on a pedestal and it's modern art.
Click to expand...

-100 points for completely and totally missing the point.
 
E

ethelred

Member
Greenpanda said:
If Nintendo released DDR for the DS, Nbots would compare it to the prom :p.
Click to expand...

That makes just about zero sense.

Greenpanda said:
Seriously, this is just getitng out of hand. Anything is a game if it has challenge and you have to interact to complete it? Shoveling the snow off my car is a challenge and I had to interact to complete that; I guess that's a game now! SHOVELING THE SNOW OFF YOUR CAR TRAINING CONFIRMED
Click to expand...

If this snow shoveling activity is done in the form of a piece of audio-visual software that's played on some sort of computing system and you get a high score for doing it, then yep, it is a video game.

Not too long back I played this crazy little Japanese game on the PS2 where your task was to successfully deliver different dishes of food to customers at a fast food restaurant. That's really, basically, all you do. The customers come in, sit down, you run over and give them the food they want.

On the PS2? It's a video game. In real life? It's a boring-ass dead end job. On the DS, I guess that'd be a non-game.

Funny, isn't it, how different things are when you're comparing real life activities to those done through an interactive piece of video gaming software? You're right that there's something getting out of hand here, but the problem is that people need to drop their narrow, myopic views of what gaming can be and what it is and what it has been.
 
L

LanceStern

Banned
http://ds.ign.com/articles/697/697926p1.html

He says that it was an uphill battle to convince the industry of the power of this title. Says retailers and sales people questioned it, saying "it's not even a game."
Click to expand...

11:02: Showing a DS playing Brain Age. Described by him as "not really a game -- more an interactive training program." He shows off "Quick Play." DS is turned sideways (as IGN readers know from our coverage of the game). Bill shows off the main mode, including the different mental exercises which appear in random sequence. Exercises include counting, math, ability to read text out loud, etc. The content of the exercises is randomly generated so that users can't remember sequences and have to adjust on the fly. Shows off graphs tracking improvement. Stresses importance of the DS's unique features, such as recognition of hand writing and voice recognition
Click to expand...

COUGH COUGH COUGH

OMG NINTENDO IS SPOUTING BS!!! OMG NINTENDO HAS NO CLUE WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT! OMG SOMEONE BAN NINTENDO!!! OMG NINTENDO IS STUPID
</complete and utter boomeranged sarcasm>
 
L

LanceStern

Banned
ethelred said:
Comparing Brain Age to a math exam is like comparing Dance Dance Revolution to the prom. Congratulations on successfully failing the art of metaphor.
Click to expand...

It's the same rationale you guys constantly use when I talk about 300k.
Turnaround is fair play as they say
 
E

ethelred

Member
Here, since some people seem to be having trouble grasping some basic concepts as to what a video game is, let me provide a few helpful comparisons.

asking different girls out on dates in real life: not a video game
asking different girls out on dates in audiovisual entertainment software: video game

driving a car in real life: not a video game
driving a car in audiovisual entertainment software: video game

doing funky little dance moves in real life: not a video game
doing funky little dance moves in audiovisual entertainment software: video game

delivering fast food to customers in real life: not a video game
delivering fast food to customers in audiovisual entertainment software: video game

playing football in real life: not a video game
playing football in audiovisual entertainment software: video game

shooting down invading space ships seeking to destroy the planet earth in real life: not a video game
shooting down invading space ships seeking to destroy the planet earth in audiovisual entertainment software: video game

bouncing a ball back and forth across a table in real life: not a video game
bouncing a ball back and forth across a table in audiovisual entertainment software: video game

helping E.T. find his way home via reese's pieces in real life: not a video game
helping E.T. find his way home via reese's pieces in audiovisual nonentertainment software: unfortunately, yeah, it was actually a video game

answering different sorts of timed mental challenges in real life: not a video game
answering different sorts of timed mental challenges in a audiovisual entertainment software: video game

hunting down landmark-stealing criminals by correctly supplying historical or geographical information in real life: not a video game
hunting down landmark-stealing criminals by correctly supplying historical or geographical information in audiovisual entertainment software: video game

shoveling ****ing snow off your car in real life: not a video game
shoveling ****ing snow off your car in audiovisual entertainment software: video game

raising and training a puppy in real life: not a video game
raising and training a puppy in audiovisual entertainment software: video game


I hope this helps.
 
J

jj984jj

He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
Of course Nintendo is embracing the term non-game, it's one of the reasons why the DS is so successful in the first place. From a marketing perspective they would be idiots to pass such a chance up, but they definitely didn't start making these games with the term in mind, it's purely marketing.
 
L

LanceStern

Banned
The point is the head-figures are calling them non-games.

And even though it's a touch term I won't use anymore, it still solidifies that the list I made shows the type of "games" those games are. For all the people saying they ARE games, Nintendo heads themselves say they aren't, so you're going to have to find another small, minute, pointless detail to exploit out of an argument to avoid the real message
 
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