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[svbarnard]

Xbox Series X Mesh Shaders Advanced Culling Cuts Rendering Time – Lords of Gaming

lordsofgaming.net

"I’m sure you have heard that the Xbox Series X supports all RDNA 2 & Direct X 12 Ultimate features. One of the features that should bring a significant performance boost in games is Mesh Shaders.

We have yet to see games utilizing Mesh Shading and we are not sure what kind of performance increase this will bring in games. However, there are benchmarks that present potential gains already. One of the most exciting demos showcasing how this new technology works is the “Advanced Mesh Shaders” presentation by Martin Fuller. He runs a program on an Xbox Series X dev kit with Mesh Shading enabled in real-time. When he enables Advanced Culling it cuts the rendering time by half."

So apparently there is a function built into the hardware of the series x / s, this function is for a next-gen only feature called mesh shaders which will double the performance of the Xbox series x / s. From what I understand there are no games that you can play right now that utilize mesh shaders because the studios have to rebuild their game engines for it. I think the first games to utilize mesh shaders are coming out next year. It doesn't look like the PS5 is going to utilize mesh shaders as I believe it was something Microsoft developed. I firmly believe we're going to see a huge leap in graphics once the studios rebuild their game engines to take advantage of all the next gen features.

 

[BigBooper]

So it's all about the tools?

 

[kyliethicc]

Meshlets​

"GPUs and associated (APIs) continued to evolve. In late 2020, a new general-purpose computational shader was developed based on Nvidia’s introdruction of its Turing architecture GPU in the fall of 2018. The new GPU had task shaders, which Nvidia labeled as mesh shaders, and introduced the concept of meshlets. The new capabilities were accessible through extensions in OpenGL and Vulkan and DirectX 12 Ultimate."

A demonstration​

"Epic developed a mesh shader demo for the PS5 called “Nanite virtualized micropolygon geometry”. It generates 20 million triangles."

Mesh Shaders Release the Intrinsic Power of a GPU - ACM SIGGRAPH Blog

Jon Peddie Research shares how it has taken 20 years to realize the intrinsic power of a GPU through mesh shaders.

blog.siggraph.org

 

[onQ123]

I see your Mesh Shaders & I raise you Cache Strubbers & G G G Geometry Engine.

 

[MrFunSocks]

That……….doesn’t change anything? The new consoles are just glorified PS4 Pro/Xbox One X’s so far. Next year that might change, or could be the year after, or the year after, but right now it’s hard to argue they’re not. You can play almost every single game released so far on last gen consoles.

 

[svbarnard]

That……….doesn’t change anything? The new consoles are just glorified PS4 Pro/Xbox One X’s so far. Next year that might change, or could be the year after, or the year after, but right now it’s hard to argue they’re not. You can play almost every single game released so far on last gen consoles.

Dude I disagree, mesh shaders is a function that's built into the hardware of the Xbox series X/S and apparently it's a big deal. Another next-gen feature is called variable rate shading. I'm telling you in the next few years once the major game studios revamp their game engines to take advantage of these next-gen features, we're going to see graphics never witnessed before in video games.

 

[onQ123]

Meshlets​

"GPUs and associated (APIs) continued to evolve. In late 2020, a new general-purpose computational shader was developed based on Nvidia’s introdruction of its Turing architecture GPU in the fall of 2018. The new GPU had task shaders, which Nvidia labeled as mesh shaders, and introduced the concept of meshlets. The new capabilities were accessible through extensions in OpenGL and Vulkan and DirectX 12 Ultimate."

A demonstration​

"Epic developed a mesh shader demo for the PS5 called “Nanite virtualized micropolygon geometry”. It generates 20 million triangles."

Mesh Shaders Release the Intrinsic Power of a GPU - ACM SIGGRAPH Blog

Jon Peddie Research shares how it has taken 20 years to realize the intrinsic power of a GPU through mesh shaders.

blog.siggraph.org

How dare Epic sprinkle Xbox Series Secret Sauce on a PS5 demo.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Dude I disagree, mesh shaders is a function that's built into the hardware of the Xbox series X/S and apparently it's a big deal. Another next-gen feature is called variable rate shading. I'm telling you in the next few years once the major game studios revamp their game engines to take advantage of these next-gen features, we're going to see graphics never witnessed before in video games.

Did you not even read my post that you replied to?

 

[svbarnard]

Meshlets​

"GPUs and associated (APIs) continued to evolve. In late 2020, a new general-purpose computational shader was developed based on Nvidia’s introdruction of its Turing architecture GPU in the fall of 2018. The new GPU had task shaders, which Nvidia labeled as mesh shaders, and introduced the concept of meshlets. The new capabilities were accessible through extensions in OpenGL and Vulkan and DirectX 12 Ultimate."

A demonstration​

"Epic developed a mesh shader demo for the PS5 called “Nanite virtualized micropolygon geometry”. It generates 20 million triangles."

Mesh Shaders Release the Intrinsic Power of a GPU - ACM SIGGRAPH Blog

Jon Peddie Research shares how it has taken 20 years to realize the intrinsic power of a GPU through mesh shaders.

blog.siggraph.org

The major difference between mesh shaders in the PS5 and the Xbox series X is that the Xbox has mesh shaders built into the GPU whereas ps5's implementation is merely software, they literally built it into the hardware for Xbox.

 

[svbarnard]

Did you not even read my post that you replied to?

Yes and you don't realize that the next-gen consoles haven't had a chance to really show off what they're capable of, not yet. So just give it a few more years.

 

[Boss Mog]

If you have a response to a thread then maybe post it in that thread, you know, that's what it's actually for. Apparently OP thinks he's too important for that though. A new thread to respond to a thread and all it contains is the same shitty console war tagline "...but but Xbox has the real RDNA 2" and incorrect information.

 

[Chris_Rivera]

We’ve known about this from the beginning, have you not used this forum before? It’s been covered extensively, but ultimately nobody really gives a fuck about a benchmark.

Super glad you are stoked though.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Yes and you don't realize that the next-gen consoles haven't had a chance to really show off what they're capable of, not yet. So just give it a few more years.

You need to re-read it then, because like I said, looking at them right now they are just essentially better previous gen consoles, but that will change at some stage in the next few years.

I don’t think anyone doubts that they have tech in them to do stuff that previous consoles can’t do. That’s not the point. The point is they’re not using any of it and likely won’t for a few more years.

 

[playXray]

If you have a response to a thread then maybe post it in that thread, you know, that's what it's actually for. Apparently OP thinks he's too important for that though. A new thread to respond to a thread and all it contains is the same shitty console war tagline "...but but Xbox has the real RDNA 2" and incorrect information.

I didn’t think ‘response’ threads were even allowed.

 

[svbarnard]

If you have a response to a thread then maybe post it in that thread, you know, that's what it's actually for. Apparently OP thinks he's too important for that though. A new thread to respond to a thread and all it contains is the same shitty console war tagline "...but but Xbox has the real RDNA 2" and incorrect information.

The purpose of this thread was to emphasize "mesh shaders". Apparently it's going to be a big deal once the major game studios start taking advantage of it.

 

[TexMex]

You should put your response in that thread.

 

[Imtjnotu]

The major difference between mesh shaders in the PS5 and the Xbox series X is that the Xbox has mesh shaders built into the GPU whereas ps5's implementation is merely software, they literally built it into the hardware for Xbox.

.....

 

[grfunkulus]

That……….doesn’t change anything? The new consoles are just glorified PS4 Pro/Xbox One X’s so far. Next year that might change, or could be the year after, or the year after, but right now it’s hard to argue they’re not. You can play almost every single game released so far on last gen consoles.

The annoying, tired 'cant play this on the last gen consoles so it must be next gen' is a trope. Don't be stupid enough to fall for it. There are levels to this shit. Experiencing a game in the way the creators intended and then experiencing it in a severely compromised manner just to say you could on old, underpowered hardware is the industry doing the whole Wii 'see, even grandma can game' schtick

 

[Rickyiez]

You should put your response in that thread.

No , we should just close that thread and continue this one instead . I'm tired of all those whining that brings nothing new to the table .

 

[MrFunSocks]

The annoying, tired 'cant play this on the last gen consoles so it must be next gen' is a trope. Don't be stupid enough to fall for it. There are levels to this shit. Experiencing a game in the way the creators intended and then experiencing it in a severely compromised manner just to say you could on old, underpowered hardware is the industry doing the whole Wii 'see, even grandma can game' schtick

I’m sorry but most games released so far are literally persecut previous generation games that also then got a current gen upgrade thrown in.

Which games do to think this doesn’t apply to?

 

[svbarnard]

The annoying, tired 'cant play this on the last gen consoles so it must be next gen' is a trope. Don't be stupid enough to fall for it. There are levels to this shit. Experiencing a game in the way the creators intended and then experiencing it in a severely compromised manner just to say you could on old, underpowered hardware is the industry doing the whole Wii 'see, even grandma can game' schtick

Yes I had to create this thread to emphasize the fact that one of the key features of next-gen consoles is mesh shaders, right now there is not a single video game you can buy that is utilizing mesh shaders, it's truly a next-gen feature and it's not the only new feature, another one I know of is called variable rate shading, but mesh shaders is the big one!

From what I understand in order for them to utilize mesh shaders they have to totally rebuild their game engines so it's going to take a couple years before we see games come out using it.

 

[Max_Po]

Thanks Martin Fuller...

 

[Marvel14]

Did you not even read my post that you replied to?

 

[Marvel14]

The annoying, tired 'cant play this on the last gen consoles so it must be next gen' is a trope. Don't be stupid enough to fall for it. There are levels to this shit. Experiencing a game in the way the creators intended and then experiencing it in a severely compromised manner just to say you could on old, underpowered hardware is the industry doing the whole Wii 'see, even grandma can game' schtick

Except of course that "severely compromised" is hardly how you would describe cross gen titles running on last gen's top end machines. Don't be stupid enough to fall for the idea that tech leaps are still as large as they used to be. Until a major shift in AI or affordable reality enhancement or something else truly generation leaping happens and is readily incorporated into game design, we will continue to relie on DF to show us in detail why stuff runs that much better on the current gen.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The purpose of this thread was to emphasize "mesh shaders". Apparently it's going to be a big deal once the major game studios start taking advantage of it.

Bro, the point of that thread was that the new consoles SO FAR are just glorified Pro consoles. Which is true since we're still in the cross gen phase.

 

[Dream-Knife]

Meshlets​

"GPUs and associated (APIs) continued to evolve. In late 2020, a new general-purpose computational shader was developed based on Nvidia’s introdruction of its Turing architecture GPU in the fall of 2018. The new GPU had task shaders, which Nvidia labeled as mesh shaders, and introduced the concept of meshlets. The new capabilities were accessible through extensions in OpenGL and Vulkan and DirectX 12 Ultimate."

A demonstration​

"Epic developed a mesh shader demo for the PS5 called “Nanite virtualized micropolygon geometry”. It generates 20 million triangles."

Mesh Shaders Release the Intrinsic Power of a GPU - ACM SIGGRAPH Blog

Jon Peddie Research shares how it has taken 20 years to realize the intrinsic power of a GPU through mesh shaders.

blog.siggraph.org

If this is an Nvidia thing how is it available on Xbox using AMD?

 

[Esppiral]

As someone who bought the mid gen refresh consoles, this next gen is a joke so far.

 

[grfunkulus]

Except of course that "severely compromised" is hardly how you would describe cross gen titles running on last gen's top end machines. Don't be stupid enough to fall for the idea that tech leaps are still as large as they used to be. Until a major shift in AI or affordable reality enhancement or something else truly generation leaping happens and is readily incorporated into game design, we will continue to relie on DF to show us in detail why stuff runs that much better on the current gen.

Wtf are you talking about. It's almost always 30 fps vs 60, meaning the last gen equivalent is comparably unplayable. Or, the next gen mode offers 120hz modes which should be strongly encouraged to bring console gaming to the standard that pc players have enjoyed for almost a decade. Ffs, this isn't a complex equation. stop pretending you're Nostra'fuckinDamus by retroactively inventing Moore's Law

 

[Marvel14]

Wtf are you talking about. It's almost always 30 fps vs 60, meaning the last gen equivalent is comparably unplayable. Or, the next gen mode offers 120hz modes which should be strongly encouraged to bring console gaming to the standard that pc players have enjoyed for almost a decade. Ffs, this isn't a complex equation. stop pretending you're Nostra'fuckinDamus by retroactively inventing Moore's Law

90% of gamers couldn't give a rats ass. I don't doubt that once you're used to 60fps, 120 hz anything less feels unacceptable but unplayable? Fuck off.

 

[Mr Moose]

Dude I disagree, mesh shaders is a function that's built into the hardware of the Xbox series X/S and apparently it's a big deal. Another next-gen feature is called variable rate shading. I'm telling you in the next few years once the major game studios revamp their game engines to take advantage of these next-gen features, we're going to see graphics never witnessed before in video games.

VRS isn't a next gen feature, CoD has been doing it for a few years on last gen machines.

 

[Clintizzle]

Mesh shaders, VRS, SSD, Chache scrubbers, SFS.

Only thing left in my bingo card are IO, Triangles, Nanite, kraken and Direct Storage.

Don't let me down, GAF

 

[svbarnard]

.....

PS5 uses RDNA 1's Primitive Shaders, not RDNA 2's Mesh Shaders like Xbox Series X

Sports and Gaming news Feed. Includes all PlayStation, Xbox, eSports, Pokemon, WWE and all other sports and gaming events.

www.sportsgaming.win

"PS5 uses AMD's presented Primitive Shaders for RDNA 1, not RDNA 2 Mesh Shaders like Xbox Series X. This was revealed by Digital Foundry, which spoke of a more programmable front end for Xbox Series X thanks to mesh shaders, hardware VRS and Sample Feedback, against that of the Sony console stopped at the Primitive Shaders of 2019."

So it looks like PS5 is using only primitive shaders for the RDNA 1, Xbox series X/S are getting to use the revolutionary mesh shaders designed for AMD's RDNA2. As I was saying the Xbox has designed mesh shaders into the hardware which is probably going to be more powerful than ps5's implementation. And also if you do your research you'll realize primitive shaders came before mesh shaders, mesh shaders is the revolutionary adaptation.

 

[svbarnard]

.....

PS5, bad news, uses Primitive Shaders: Series X uses Mesh Shaders - World Today News

What are the differences between PS5 and Xbox Series X? Difficult (and unfair) to make a complete comparison in a nutshell, but now we can point out at least one big difference: according to what Digital Foundry reported, PS5 uses AMD’s RDNA 1 architecture Primitive Shaders, while Xbox Series X...

www.world-today-news.com

"PS5, bad news, uses Primitive Shaders: Series X uses Mesh Shaders"​

"What are the differences between PS5 and Xbox Series X? Difficult (and unfair) to make a complete comparison in a nutshell, but now we can point out at least one big difference: according to what Digital Foundry reported, PS5 uses AMD’s RDNA 1 architecture Primitive Shaders, while Xbox Series X uses RDNA 2’s Mesh Shaders.

The Primitive Shaders were presented in June 2019 for RDNA 1 and were shown by Sony in the “Road to PS5” presentation. Xbox Series X, on the other hand, has opted for the latest technologies and, not surprisingly, Microsoft has pointed this out in its marketing campaign in recent months, probably knowing that the direct competitor would not be able to offer the same level of technology."

It looks like the series X is simply a more advanced machine than the PS5. It looks like Sony opted not to use the latest and greatest mesh shaders designed for AMD's RDNA2. Listen mesh shaders are supposed to be so revolutionary that the reason we haven't seen any games that utilize it is because it's going to take developers a couple years to retool their game engines for it.

I can't wait to see games 5 years from now once developers have had enough time to fully implement mesh shaders and perfect the technology.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

 

[Loxus]

PS5 uses RDNA 1's Primitive Shaders, not RDNA 2's Mesh Shaders like Xbox Series X

Sports and Gaming news Feed. Includes all PlayStation, Xbox, eSports, Pokemon, WWE and all other sports and gaming events.

www.sportsgaming.win

"PS5 uses AMD's presented Primitive Shaders for RDNA 1, not RDNA 2 Mesh Shaders like Xbox Series X. This was revealed by Digital Foundry, which spoke of a more programmable front end for Xbox Series X thanks to mesh shaders, hardware VRS and Sample Feedback, against that of the Sony console stopped at the Primitive Shaders of 2019."

So it looks like PS5 is using only primitive shaders for the RDNA 1, Xbox series X/S are getting to use the revolutionary mesh shaders designed for AMD's RDNA2. As I was saying the Xbox has designed mesh shaders into the hardware which is probably going to be more powerful than ps5's implementation. And also if you do your research you'll realize primitive shaders came before mesh shaders, mesh shaders is the revolutionary adaptation.

Imagine using Alex from DF as a source. Same guy that was very confident that PS5 doesn't have RT.