ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
Well the X1 beat it once in Dec 2013 thanks to PS4 supply constraints. While it may not happen frequently, I wouldn't bet on it never happening again just yet.
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NPD Sales Results for April 2014 [Up2: XB1/360 hardware, PS4 #1/XB1 #2 best selling]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Well the X1 beat it once in Dec 2013 thanks to PS4 supply constraints. While it may not happen frequently, I wouldn't bet on it never happening again just yet.
Apophis2036
Banned
I obviously meant the big name Nintendo mp titles like MK8 and Smash but I'm sure you knew that already.
shinra-bansho
Member
I don't know how one would discern that from what you wrote.
If you were only referring to Nintendo's first party output then the subscription required for PSN and XBL online multiplayer is even more irrelevant.
That content can't be had anywhere but the Wii U in the first place.
Because there are only two outcomes in the Game of Soles, either you win or you die.
To put it another way... A Nintendo console for $199 that has the exact same support as the Wii U has for Indie Games and Apps would be a better deal than stuff like the Ouya or the MOJO or perhaps even the Fire TV because it has Mario and Zelda which does sell systems to people and fits with the intended market that compete on that level.
Apophis2036
Banned
Online mp for their respective big name titles is free on WiiU and behind a paywall on PS4 and XBone, I don't really know how to simplify it for you any more than that.
Next console needs to be $199 or lower. Wii got away with the $249 because of the great novelty of the motion controls.
it got away with it because it had the right software bundled with it too. i don't think a $200 wii u successor is going to sell on its own. honestly, it probably needs to be cheaper- like $149.99 (with a handheld priced around the same).
It also got away with it because it was marketed brilliantly. Those early Wii commercials were genius.
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
Look at how many third party games were shown there. If you don't care to watch it, A LOT were shown. You had Red Steel, Madden, and a skateboarding game for some. You also had Wii Sports, Zelda, and Metroid. It basically was trying to tell "we've covered all the bases this time". Mario wasn't even in the ad at all actually.
Even the PS2 got outsold by the Xbox a few times i think.
XB1 selling more than PS4 some months shouldn't matter as long as it maintains its lead.
The cheaper the better honestly. But it also does indeed require to have a pack in.
shinra-bansho
Member
For a given consumer the point of differentiation is the respective "big name titles," not the further outlay for online multiplayer.
If they're after a console with Mario Kart, then the Wii U is the only game in town.
If they're after a console with Madden, then the Wii U is automatically disqualified.
It doesn't matter that one can play online for free on the Wii U, if they want a system that has Madden.
And it's irrelevant that one has to pay to play FIFA online, if they need Smash Bros as part of their purchase decision.
The point where it becomes a major differentiator is if the consumer either:
a) doesn't care what games they're playing online, provided that play is free.
or
b) the game in question that they want their system to have is on both prospective platforms.
I don't really know in what quantity the former amount to. And even given scenario B, which at this stage is a rarity, the perceived value of the respective network services comes into play.
Yup. No matter what the Wii U will at best tread water. As an owner of a Wii U I want great games to be released for the platform but in reality it will get very little. Nintendo is going to keep it's head down, release the bare minimum of first party games to not show complete weakness and try not burn hardcore fans. I wouldn't be surprised if we see new hardware released by them in 2016.
prag16
Banned
The problem is, what the hell would they release? (If those clamoring for sub $200 hardware get their way). The Wii U may barely go sub $200 by then. If they go super cheap it could end up barely seeming like any upgrade at all.
Unless they go the hybrid route.
Aquamarine
Member
Hmm....
http://seattletimes.com/html/techno...013640686_xbox_kinect_push_game_sales_to.html
When games are ranked individually by platform, two Kinect titles almost made the top 10. "Dance Central" and "Kinect Sports" were number 11 and 12, according to David Dennis, Xbox group product manager.
November 2010 Individual SKUs:
1) Black Ops 360 - 4.61 million
2) Black Ops PS3 - 2.92 million
3) Just Dance 2 Wii - 0.66 million
4) Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood 360 - 0.66 million
5) Fable III 360 - 0.54 million
6) Donkey Kong Country Returns Wii - 0.43 million
7) Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood PS3 - 0.38 million
8) Gran Turismo 5 PS3 - 0.36 million
9) Wii Fit Plus w/ Balance Board Wii - 0.35 million
10) Dance Central 360 - 0.35 million
wait what am i doing
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
Thanks Aqua =). So Kinect Sports Rivals < 70K.
SwiftDeath
Member
Ah well that seems to signal whether or not there was some pent-up demand by the likely core gamer dominated XB1 US install base for a kinect title.
And that signal is a big no
And that signal is a big no
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
Well typically these titles sell over the long-term so we'll see. Maybe it'll have legs. Clearly there wasn't pent-up demand though.
Liabe Brave
Member
That absolute number isn't unreasonable--plenty of consoles have sold over 150k each month during the summer, regardless of games released. But when you're starting from a baseline of ~50-60k per month, suddenly the sustained increase does become unreasonable. Almost no game, by itself, can nearly triple a console's sales three months in a row.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
If XB1 can't outsell PS4 in June, the month of its price cut.....its over. The NPD thread would be even more reactive than March's. Time for the bunker.
I really think that even the Wii U could see some better sales if it was priced at 149.99 or even 99.99 right now. The current 249.99 (or even the 199.99 some retailers have) is just too much for what is offered.
SwiftDeath
Member
Wow so KSR debuted at < 65k. That's not good
Thanks Aqua.
The install base is getting larger. US Software sales on Wii U were up 26% in January, 180% in February and 80% in April. If software sales go up and there's no 3rd party games then that benefits Nintendo since they make 3-4x more profit on 1st party games than 3rd party games. The average console owner only purchases 2-3 games a year, you don't actually need too many games to create a viable product. 10-20 games a year is all they need. That's why N64 did ok despite going many months without new releases. At the start of next year the Wii U should be between 8-10M which is close to double where it was this year. It won't give them giant profits overall but it will make up for a lot of the damage that has already been done.
I don't think you guys fully understand how economies of scale work. Economies of scale apply to every single unit manufactured. There is also diminishing returns and most economies of scale are gained early in the life cycle. Iwata has already stated that the projected Wii U sales will mean they don't lose much if any money on the hardware this year since they already accounted for that last year.
Why are you asking me that? Nothing has to outsell anything to sell well. I'm not one of the "Everything is a failure if it's not #1" people.
I don't care if the PS4 outsells the X1 or if the X1 outsells the PS4. I'm not aligned with either side, I like both companies.
I didn't allude to anything related to your question. I'm guessing you misread/misinterpreted it.
Aquamarine
Member
LEGO The Hobbit didn't do very well at all. Like, below expectations quite significantly.
Like below 150K.
theprodigy
Member
so #5 is <150k, #9 is 100k?
LOL
ok, if that's the case let's open bets on Mario Kart 8's chart position, in addition to its sales
prag16
Banned
1. Watch_Dogs
2. The Show
3. MK8
Maybe. Watch_Dogs should be #1, but MK8 only being tracked for 2 days makes it a little tough to predict.
Aquamarine
Member
It's not that strange...
Last April:
Nintendo reported that Luigi's Mansion (#6) sold 140K physical + digital sales, and that LEGO City Undercover 3DS (#9) sold 94K physical + digital.
And you know with Nintendo digital sales that at least 20K of those two figures had to be exclusively digital.
SwiftDeath
Member
Why are you asking me that? Nothing has to outsell anything to sell well. I'm not one of the "Everything is a failure if it's not #1" people.
I don't care if the PS4 outsells the X1 or if the X1 outsells the PS4. I'm not aligned with either side, I like both companies.
I didn't allude to anything related to your question. I'm guessing you misread/misinterpreted it.
Always a distinct possibility
I read it as you were responding to someone finding PS4 outselling XB1 in June being funny and you asking if Wii U not selling well was funny so then Wii U not selling well = not outselling XB1 or PS4 any months -> XB1 not selling well = not outselling PS4
Probably like 2 logical leaps too far I suppose lol
Makes sense. Of the few XB1 buyers I know, i don't think any of them bought it because of the Kinect in any way, they bought it because it was the sequel to the 360 and they wanted to play more COD/Madden/etc.
theprodigy
Member
It's not that strange...
Last April:
Nintendo reported that Luigi's Mansion (#6) sold 140K physical + digital sales, and that LEGO City Undercover 3DS (#9) sold 94K physical + digital.
And you know with Nintendo digital sales that at least 20K of those two figures had to be exclusively digital.
yeah but since those were 3DS only it was more or less expected
(are there numbers for some of last May's top 10)
Imperfected
Member
Economics of scale apply not only to manufacturing, but also to shipping and, in the context of video games, advertising. At this point shipping is a tremendously bad situation for Nintendo since they pushed retailers to overstock and actually had to accept returns of some shipments, and haven't been able to maintain high enough shipping levels to enjoy price breaks on the highest bulk rates.
And while yes, every unit manufactured does effectively reduce the average cost of every unit manufactured, one of the things that drives that number back through the roof is having to halt or significantly draw down manufacturing for a protracted period of time. Do you think Nintendo's still cranking out half a million Wii-U's a month or more? I don't, because that would mean they're sitting on a stockpile of units larger than the number they've sold, which would have its own attendant costs.
As far as them reaping the massive rewards of first party sales goes, you're somehow managing to ignore the fact that first party games cost them money to make, while third party games don't. That means when a first party game sells like Wonderful 101 did, they actually lose money because of it. They don't employ slave labor, if they self-publish games that sell poorly because of an abysmal install base it costs them money, especially in instances where they ramped up HD development due to the expectation of selling dramatically more units coming off the Wii's numbers.
Honestly, I have no idea why you're trying to spin this. Assuming you're not being willfully obtuse about this, I can make it super simple:
How many years has Nintendo posted financial losses?
How many of those years have been after the release of the Wii-U?
Occham's razor to the rescue.
Aquamarine
Member
yeah but since those were 3DS only it was more or less expected
(are there numbers for some of last May's top 10)
If you think LEGO The Hobbit selling <150K at #5 is bad, just wait until you see May 2013 NPD:
1. Injustice: Gods Among Us (360, PS3, NWU)** - <200K
2. Call of Duty: Black Ops II (360, PS3, PC, NWU)** - <150K
3. Donkey Kong Country Returns (3DS, WII)
4. Dead Island: Riptide (360, PS3, PC)**
5. Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon (3DS) - 97K
6. Metro: Last Light (360, PS3, PC)
7. NBA 2K13 (360, PS3, WII, NWU, PSP, PC)**
8. Bioshock Infinite (360, PS3, PC)**
9. Battlefield 3 (360, PS3, PC)**
10. Lego Batman 2: DC Super Heroes (360, WII, NDS, PS3, 3DS, NWU, PSV, PC)
Funnily enough, I was just wondering when the last time a game sold more on PC (at retail) than on one of the consoles. I figured it woulda been to have been years ago. Well, turns out it was (at most) a year ago.
SwiftDeath
Member
Aqua you're famous
Don't worry it's for your analysis not for the um other stuff
Great episode this week! Loved seeing so much GAF stuff today, haha. Someone should let Aquamarine know she got a shoutout.
Don't worry it's for your analysis not for the um other stuff
rokkerkory
Member
Agreed... Meltdowns are always funny however poor sales is not funny for the industry. PS4 alone cannot hold up next-gen and will hurt gamers in general.
I really liked LEGO LOTR, but it dropped to $20 super quickly. Planning on getting LEGO Hobbit, too, but waiting for $20 this time, especially with DLC for the final movie coming later.
CadetMahoney
Member
If titanfall and price cut can't save, wonder if the "wait and see" ppl will change their tune.
prag16
Banned
Yeah, that's what console warriors everywhere don't understand. Three healthy entities competing is much better for the industry than two or especially one. During PS1/PS2 days there was enough competition to keep them honest. We certainly don't want to be going to any situation worse than that one for this gen.
Personally I don't think the industry wants nor can support three major consoles anymore. I'm hard pressed to buy two, I'm certainly not going to buy three.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Could definitely happen. Especially if the Last of Us remake launches in June.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Right, and murders go up along with icecream sales.
You don't need to use "Occhams razor" (sic) to see what Nintendos losses are due to, they are explicitly outlined in their financial reports.
Look, here's a whole topic about it breaking it down in detail
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