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NPD Sales Results for August 2007
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
kammy said:
GRAW2 did not sell less than 50,000 on its 360 debut so no, it is not doing 360 business as far as third parties are concerned.
Beer Monkey
Member
kammy said:
PS3 + PS2 should be selling more Madden. PS2+PS3 selling less than Xbox+360 is showing a decent chunk of PS2 owners switching to 360.
Eteric Rice
Member
Not really surprised at the sales of Madden, this one had pretty bad reviews.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The Sphinx said:
Fight Night 3
Ghost Recon AW
Oblivion
Dead Rising
Madden 2007
Rainbow Six Vegas
Call of Duty 3
NCAA 2007
NFS: Carbon
Splinter Cell: DA
Saints Row
In the 360's first year with a much slower growing userbase, sold much better than any Wii 3rd party titles released in 2007 (by NPD). I don't think more than a handful of these games would be considered AAA (RSV, Ghost Recon, Oblivion, and with a stretch, maybe Dead Rising). The budget comparisons are meaningless - to make a serviceable HD game, it's going to cost more than to make a serviceable Wii game. This is never going to change.
tahrikmili
Member
Stinkles said:
Cold..
The Sphinx said:
Actually - it's a historical fact. Nintendo 1st party games have enjoyed significantly better performance on Nintendo consoles, whether triple A or not. Add to that a litany of manufacturing battles, publishing lawsuits (see Tengen etc) and difficult proprietary formats and you have a roughly correct picture. Sony on the other hand, went out of its way to court publishers and I believe that a few 3rd parties have sold more PlayStation games than Sony has, on a per platform basis.
Parsimonious or not.
This is not a criticism of either company, just a note. And a defence against your accusation of bullshit.
Are you really curious or are you just being deliberately obtuse? Tiger Woods 07 Wii is the best selling version.Sho_Nuff82 said:
Like Dragon Quest: Swords? Red Steel? Trauma Center? Rayman Raving Rabbits? Sonic and the Secret Rings? Tiger Woods? Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 2? Resident Evil 4: Wii? Cooking Mama? These games all met or outperformed their expectations/sold better than the PS3/360 versions worldwide.Sho_Nuff82 said:
The Sphinx said:
The NES was a challenge for third parties. Nintendo exerted monopolistic control over their games, their releases, everything. I doubt you'll be able to find a single third party publisher that liked the way things were for them on the NES, or that would be willing to go back to that.
Jokeropia said:
Red Steel, RRR, and (close enough) Sonic were all launch titles that have still underperformed compared to the GameCube's third party launch titles. Tiger Woods? Again, point to a statement from EA saying it's happy with those sales, because all we can see is that they've stopped pushing the Wii version like they did last year which doesn't speak of overall satisfaction. Dragon Quest Swords? This is an NPD thread, can we at least stick to games that have been released in the US? Both Cooking Mana and RE4 are budget titles.
You can say all these games sold better than PS360 versions, but the only one of those with anything close to a comparative version is Sonic. As to the others, the top third party titles you highlight on the Wii all lag considerably behind the top worldwide performers on the 360 (even limiting our search to a specific first year timeframe).
Beer Monkey
Member
If you wanted a third party game in the NES days, you pretty much had to buy it for the NES. :lol
RiskyChris
Banned
Stinkles said:
Both Sony consoles and Nintendo consoles could have at some exclusive points both been healthy for 3rd parties. It's not xor.
ethelred said:
A few points
1. I still think your Tiger Woods Wii theory is a bit of a stretch. Tiger Woods Wii came out 5-6 months after the other versions, was a barely upgraded PS2 port with tacked on controls and most likely matched or exceeded the 360 version world wide. I cannot see any possible way that EA would be disappointed with those sales. As to advertising, Tiger Woods 07 launched in March where there weren't many EA released anyways, and no other versions to push. I think its possible they just decided for a generic commerical covering all the platforms this year since all versions were released simultaneously.
2. I don't believe Cooking Mama was a budget title. And even if RE4 is a budget title, it still significantly outsold Capcom's expectations, which is all that matters right?
Bottom line I agree with you in so far as Wii 3rd party software sales are not as good as 360 sales. Anyone disputing that is just wrong. That said, I think they're generally pretty healthy and much healthier than the PS3's to this point.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Jokeropia said:
And Tiger 08 isn't, and it didn't even chart.
Okay, now what about SSX? Madden 08? Scarface? Godfather? Prince of Persia TT? Guilty Gear AC? Need For Speed? Medal of Honor? Mortal Kombat? Or even Madden 07, which is the 6th rank Wii game ever on gamerankings?
Remember, this is an NPD thread...Sonic, Cooking Mama, and Elebits bombed in the US.
I'm not arguing that the Wii can't support ANY 3rd party games, I'm arguing that it's not doing nearly as great a job as the PS2 or 360 did during their respective first years on the market. Its performance as a 3rd party market does not justify the development shift that Nintendo fans have been clamoring for.
The two companies that have arguably been most successful on Wii - UbiSoft and Capcom - have been even more successful on 360.
I'm sure EA is overjoyed with the success of Tiger 07, but one game does not = our platform of choice for all sports titles in the future.
The Sphinx said:
You're just going to adapt your response and ignore your specific fault until I capitulate and leave the thread. So I'll save you the trouble.
You win. Nintendo consoles have always been a whimsical wonderland of success and simplicity for 3rd parties.
Pureauthor
Member
Sonic bombed in the US? I thought that was his strongest territory?
I'm not letting you off with putting words in my mouth. I never said that.Stinkles said:
EDIT: For clarity, if it wasn't clear enough already, this is what I meant: Third parties have always performed well on the market leading platform.
That's it.
Notice that bolded sentence does not mention Nintendo, Sony, or any other specific manufacturer. That's my point.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Relative to the last-gen Sonic games, it really underperformed (though I wouldn't call it a bomb). Relative to the other current-gen Sonic, it's a crashing success.Pureauthor said:
People are starting to wise up.
Catchpenny
Member
schuelma said:
Pretty much. And the PS3 is the successor to the two most successful consoles of all-time, whereas Wii was barely on the radar until it started selling like crazy.
Anyhow, third parties will get more when they put more effort into their games. And if they choose to pass on the Wii, they will be swimming in a smaller pool this generation than they were with the PS2/Xbox. Bad for them and bad for gamers.
Xisiqomelir
Member
Son of Godzilla said:
I know, it sucks to only be rewarded for good products.
I'm happy with Corruption's sales. That's in a few days right? I think it can even outsell Prime 1 due to this Christmas holiday... granted, if Nintendo gives it a Christmas push.
Strikers deserves to sell way more. I adore that game to death.
And while I'm still in no way happy of the Wii's 3rd party situation I imagine (I hope, rather) that next year should be a coming out party for 3rd parties. I love Nintendo's talented developers and their games, but 3rd party fills the holes that Nintendo doesn't even bother touching, so those 3rd party developers are sorely needed. I just wonder what is it going to take to have decent 3rd party support...
Strikers deserves to sell way more. I adore that game to death.
And while I'm still in no way happy of the Wii's 3rd party situation I imagine (I hope, rather) that next year should be a coming out party for 3rd parties. I love Nintendo's talented developers and their games, but 3rd party fills the holes that Nintendo doesn't even bother touching, so those 3rd party developers are sorely needed. I just wonder what is it going to take to have decent 3rd party support...
Flakster99
Member
Catchpenny said:
That is what I don't understand. What if the Wii wasn't this mega selling console, but rather a pitiful outcome to which, truthfully, most 3rd parties thought it would become, DOA. The Wii is, right now, almost at the exact same spot in quality software where it would be if the console was a dismal failure. How fucked up is that?
Yes yes, software is coming, it doesn't stop me from being disappointed in 3rd party efforts thus far and, imo, a good portion of 2008.
I believe it did well in the UK.Haunted One said:
So +1 million is disappointing for Red Steel and Rayman? :lol What the hell were those games expected to sell? Sonic also outperformed it's HD counterpart.ethelred said:
It sold more than Tiger Woods 360 worldwide. You're insane if you think EA are disappointed with that. If you're looking for an explanation for why they didn't focus as much the Wii version specifically in the marketing for 08, remember that the 07 Wii version was released later than the other versions and were thus the only one to market at the time.ethelred said:
Third parties care about overall performance of their games, not just their performance in the US.ethelred said:
Doesn't change the fact that they're outperforming their expectations. Heck, RE4: Wii is a perfect example since we know exactly what Capcom expected it to sell.ethelred said:
Don't forget that the 360 had significantly better third party support from the get-go than the Wii. (I'd like to know though which 360 games that had sold considerably better than Red Steel and Rayman by the time it took them to reach a million. I don't doubt the 360 had a couple of million sellers by then, but "considerably better"?)ethelred said:
To early to make a judgement yet, it's doing great in the UK.Sho_Nuff82 said:
Madden 07 actually equalled or outperformed the PS3 version, but scores doesn't guarantee sales lest PS2 is a shitty third party console due to Okami bombing. Other than that none of those games are really high profile and if you're just listing games that bombed there're a number of those on 360 as well.Sho_Nuff82 said:
In either case, I'm not expecting developers to abandon the 360 left and right and I'm pretty certain it's already guaranteed great US third party support for years ahead, I just hate the argument that third parties cannot succeed on Nintendo platforms.
I have yet to see a commercial for Tiger 08 for the Wii unlike the smart commercial they did for Tiger 07 Wii.Sho_Nuff82 said:
Casual gamers don't go into gaming review sites and especially not gaming forums nor game blogging sites.
They get the information from TV ads, print, and billboard.
And the only time they'll go to the game store is probably only when Timmy wants to buy Halo.
The Sphinx said:
I'll bite, since I thought your main argument was that there are too few Wii games that deserve success. Seven's a fair amount. I have six myself, but they're all review copies, RE4 Wii excepted. Did you buy them all and were you content with all of them? If so, let's hear 'em!
Karma Kramer
Banned
johnsmith said:
Yes they did... about a month before it came out... no one thought it would sell this well.
Actually I wasn't content with several of them, which is unusual for me. I'm normally more careful with my purchases. I have:Farmboy said:I'll bite, since I thought your main argument was that there are too few Wii games that deserve success. Seven's a fair amount. I have six myself, but they're all review copies, RE4 Wii excepted. Did you buy them all and were you content with all of them? If so, let's hear 'em!
Elebits
Sonic
Pangya Golf or whatever they called it here
SSX Blur
RE4:Wii
Rayman: Raving Rabbids
Dragon Ball Z: BT2
The three I regret are Pangya (thought it would improve on Wii Sports Golf, but uhhh... no); Rayman (launch day purchase, it's shallow but kids love it); and Sonic (it's kinda fun but too short and there are ridiculous difficulty spikes). The others I'm happy with.
And that's the state of Wii third-party development as I see it. There's a lot of shit. There's some good stuff too, but it tends to be confined to either ports (DBZ, RE4) or bizarre genre experiments that wouldn't have sold well on a Jesus Box (Elebits). The game I'm MOST disappointed regarding sales, from this list, is SSX: Blur. It's a very enjoyable reinvention of the snowboard game and it tanked.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
I kind of despise list wars, as they put all games on some sort of equal plane. All games come with their own expectations of what makes them a success.ethelred said:
From what I understand, the 360 and PS3 Sonic games bombed even worse (I don't even remember them charting), so it looks like people have finally caught on to Sega. Secret Rings obviously will not come close to SA2B, but that's not symptomatic of the Wii. It's symptomatic of a down tick in the franchises's overall success. What GC third party launch titles sold as much as RR and RS besides Rogue Leader anyway?
I think Tiger Woods Wii actually outsold the 360 version. At least it debuted at a higher position on the NPD, and it stayed on the UK charts pretty consistantly. In fact, it is out selling the 360 version in the UK right now. This is an honest question, but do we even know how much the Wii version sold in America? It could only be 10,000 behind the 360 version for all we know. It can't be too far behind.
However, I think EA sort of botched this entire thing. They could've made Tiger Woods Wii a true center piece here, but two versions six months apart with minimal improvements, no online mode, last gen graphics, and issues still to be resolved might keep it from being the main version, at least for another year. But it shouldn't take three versions to get it right. Consumers will only stick with you for so long.
It's completely unfair to dismiss RE4. Who cares if it's a budget title? It's the third iteration of a three year old game. That limits the game's sales far more than a lower price will make up for it. However, I don't think RE4 tells us anything. The game even sold on the GC, and that didn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Great games typically sell, especially if there's precedence for it. I think developers want to know that putting a game on the Wii will give it the best chance to sell, and that probably means making something somewhat unique that at least utilizes the control scheme fairly well. Of course only a few developers have done that so far. It's comforting to know that RE4 shattered Capcom's expectations at least.
And I think that's the issue here. We shouldn't be discussing what bombs and what doesn't. Even the PS2 had bombs. However, the PS2 almost always gave games the best chance to sell. If you made a certain game exclusive to a system, of course it'll sell. However, like some companies proved with releasing a GC version and later releasing a PS2 version, the GC did not give games the best chance to sell. The GC often needed exclusive products that weren't even worth it to begin with, and I hope the Wii moves away from that a little bit with the likes of Tiger Woods, but the system is still being mismanaged by third parties. If developers want to take advantage of the Wii, then they need to separate in their minds what will sell the best on the Wii. There are way too many casual party games, but I think that's missing the point completely.
For anyone dismissing or doubting 3rd party titles on the Wii this fall lineup, do you actually know what's coming out for the Wii for the holidays besides Super Mario Galaxy and Brawl?
If you don't, then you're obviously trolling the Wii.
If you do and aren't impressed with it, then you're pretty much out and away from the Wii demographics.
Can I post the list here?
If you don't, then you're obviously trolling the Wii.
If you do and aren't impressed with it, then you're pretty much out and away from the Wii demographics.
Can I post the list here?
sonycowboy
Member
titiklabingapat said:
You should look to see what weekly sales in the UK are like. You're far, far too high.
US is at 100k/week and still larger than the entirety of Europe at this point.
Pureauthor
Member
Mindlog said:
And handhelds inherit the earth?
I like where this is going.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Crazy 'mericans and their Madden
speculawyer
Member
johnsmith said:
Certainly not everyone . . . but a lot of people predicted Bioshock would bomb.
I didn't.
Count Dookkake
Member
Pureauthor said:
Not so sure about handheld being plural, if you know what I mean.