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[DuMaurier]

Why the hell are Wii pack ins not in the hardware/peripheral category? It continues to piss me off. They aren't selling a game, they are selling a peripheral with a low budget game added as a bonus.

New NPD hardware results for Frenck's benefit:

Nintendo DS 633.5K
Balance Board W/ Wii FIT (Wii) 352.8K
Rubber Band W/ EA SPORTS ACTIVE(Wii) 345.8K
Wii 289.5K
Xbox 360 175K
Plastic Wheel W/MARIO KART(Wii) 158.3K
PlayStation 3 131K
PlayStation 2 117K
Remote W/ Wii PLAY(Wii) 109.8K
PSP 100.4K

 

[Neo C.]

I guess they had to have a bomb eventually.
Dead Rising and Lost Planet were both risks that paid off.
DMC4 did decent and Re5 and SF4 are very successful.(obviously)

I just never thought the bomb would be that fucking hard for such an expensive game.

Bombs happen eventually even when a company develops big budget games and spent a lot in marketing. But when doing a big budget HD game, a bomb hurts a company much worse than in the former gen. Even if this game somehow show legs (very doubtful), it's a lost of several million dollar.

 

[Jocchan]

I wonder how long Capcom is going to continue ignoring the Wii.

Don't worry, they'll realize their past mistakes and greenlight Bionic Commando Chronicles, a lightgun game by TOSE.

 

[jmdajr]

Bombs happen eventually, but when doing a big budget HD game, a bomb hurts a company much worse than in the former gen. Even if this game somehow show legs (very doubtful), it's a lost of several million dollar.

Yes it's very unfortunate. I'm sure small capcom games do poor sales but I bet they hardly loose money on those.

 

[Vinci]

Don't worry, they'll realize their past mistakes and greenlight Bionic Commando Chronicles, a lightgun game by TOSE.

Which will sell well and inspire another dozen lightgun games, leaving GAF to scream, "NO!" only to later buy each and every one of them because 'it looks like they're really trying.'

Wii owners are like women with abusive boyfriends.

 

[Vagabundo]

What the hell happened with BC? I haven't been paying much attention to the games as i dont have a PS3 or 360, and it seems I'm not the only one.

I thought that would sell to the old-skool crowd...

 

[Jocchan]

Wii owners are like women with abusive boyfriends.

Capcom beats them because they love them.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Wii owners are like women with abusive boyfriends.

They only hurt me because they truly love me.

Edit- Dammnit Jocchan. >:/

 

[Vinci]

Capcom beats them because they love them.

That, and Wii owners see any smidgen of effort as proof that [insert 3rd party] cares about them. When truth is, they don't. They've marginalized the system's potential and segmented the industry so badly, they're basically starving themselves.

 

[Joe211]

Am I the only who think that a ps3 price drop will push the PS3 ahead of the 360?

 

[Vinci]

Am I the only who think that a ps3 price drop will push the PS3 ahead of the 360?

...

Yes. A Slim accompanying the price drop might do it though.

 

[jvm]

Am I the only who think that a ps3 price drop will push the PS3 ahead of the 360?

If it's a $150 price drop ... sure.

 

[dammitmattt]

Am I the only who think that a ps3 price drop will push the PS3 ahead of the 360?

It would bring the PS3 close to parity (slightly over or under, it doesn't really matter), just like the last price drop.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Am I the only who think that a ps3 price drop will push the PS3 ahead of the 360?

Install base-wise, I doubt the PS3 will jump ahead of the 360 in this generation.

Month-to-month sales? Maybe for a bit of time. Maybe even for the rest of the generation. But in terms of install base, 360 has soundly beaten PS3.

 

[Jocchan]

They've marginalized the system's potential and segmented the industry so badly, they're basically starving themselves.

Exactly.

 

[pseudocaesar]

Am I the only who think that a ps3 price drop will push the PS3 ahead of the 360?

Cmon man. Really. With a price drop in 09 it will outdo it for the YTD.

 

[Neo C.]

Wii owners are like women with abusive boyfriends.

Hey, I don't like describing Wii owners as pitiful victims, they are at fault too. There are more than enough good third party Wii games, though some of them bomb because Wii gamers don't care about solid third party games. They rather love to complain about the lacking AAA software support, don't they?

 

[FrankT]

Am I the only who think that a ps3 price drop will push the PS3 ahead of the 360?

Depends on the factor of MS dropping their price plus bundling this fall. It's all relative and MS will continue to leverage their price point.

 

[Sadist]

Hey, I don't like describing Wii owners as pitiful victims, they are at fault too. There are more than enough good third party Wii games, though some of them bomb because Wii gamers don't care about solid third party games. They rather love to complain about the lacking AAA software support, don't they?

This is true. Everytime I see people bitching about several games not coming to Wii and not buying games like Klonoa makes me a sad panda. Or Dawn of Discovery for instance.

 

[dammitmattt]

This is true. Everytime I see people bitching about several games not coming to Wii and not buying games like Klonoa makes me a sad panda. Or Dawn of Discovery for instance.

To be fair, Klonoa is a 3-hour game at most. It should've been $10 on WiiWare or something.

 

[Dunlop]

It would bring the PS3 close to parity (slightly over or under, it doesn't really matter), just like the last price drop.

I don't really think it will outside of a month or two (I'm talking about a $299 or $350 PS3), it will help sales for sure but MS has done a great job of making people aware of their brand.

The benefit of having a Blu-Ray has sailed not that players are so cheap

 

[sixteen-bit]

What the hell happened with BC? I haven't been paying much attention to the games as i dont have a PS3 or 360, and it seems I'm not the only one.

I thought that would sell to the old-skool crowd...

Honestly, I didn't even know BC was out until this thread. I like to think I keep abreast of gaming news, but I guess that isn't the case.

 

[Sadist]

To be fair, Klonoa is a 3-hour game at most. It should've been $10 on WiiWare or something.

Don't care, it's a quality product and it was released in the states for $ 30? That's a damn nifty price for such a nice game. I bought it for € 30 here in Europe, really can't complain. If it was $/€ 50, then there would be reason to complain.

 

[Scrubking]

Hey, I don't like describing Wii owners as pitiful victims, they are at fault too. There are more than enough good third party Wii games, though some of them bomb because Wii gamers don't care about solid third party games. They rather love to complain about the lacking AAA software support, don't they?

They bomb because publishers aren't doing their job. It's their job to make people want to buy the game. It's not consumers' job to do them favors - especially with used games and huge price drops.

 

[3kuSaS]

Go UFC! Best fighting game of this gen so far. But something tells me that its going to drop off the top 10 next month.

UFC, that's the sport that's like wrestling but everyone pretends the outcomes aren't rigged, right?

It's the sports where dudes cuddle on the canvas for 90% of each fight.

Good things clowns like ya'll who know are completely ignorant of the sport are quickly becoming the minority.

 

[dammitmattt]

Don't care, it's a quality product and it was released in the states for $ 30? That's a damn nifty price for such a nice game. I bought it for € 30 here in Europe, really can't complain. If it was $/€ 50, then there would be reason to complain.

But most people don't buy games just to support the developer or the idea the game represents. They buy games for the value proposition that they offer. Klonoa is a great game, but the value proposition is very small for most people, making it better as a rental or a cheaper downloadable game.

Go UFC! Best fighting game of this gen so far. But something tells me that its going to drop off the top 10 next month.

Good things clowns like ya'll who know are completely ignorant of the sport are quickly becoming the minority.

The whole conversation was a joke.

 

[jibblypop]

The whole conversation was a joke.

Jokes are way over the heads of most UFC fans.

 

[3kuSaS]

But most people don't buy games just to support the developer or the idea the game represents. They buy games for the value proposition that they offer. Klonoa is a great game, but the value proposition is very small for most people, making it better as a rental or a cheaper downloadable game.



The whole conversation was a joke.

Didn't seem like one (i.e. not funny) but alrighty then pal!

 

[Sadist]

But most people don't buy games just to support the developer or the idea the game represents. They buy games for the value proposition that they offer. Klonoa is a great game, but the value proposition is very small for most people, making it better as a rental or a cheaper downloadable game.

Hmmm... well, I wasn't actually talking about "supporting developers" and the idea it represents, but as a game I like to play or people who like a solid experience on Wii. Sure, Klonoa's value is debatable because of its length for some, but in general its a game that people are searching for on Wii. It's quality, even if you neglect the 5 hour timespan.

Some Wii owners (I have 31 Wii titles btw) are way to selective or specific. Even when a good game comes around there is one big flaw that disqualifies the title for purchase. That's my point. Where do we draw the line?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Didn't seem like one (i.e. not funny) but alrighty then pal!

That's what's funny about it.

 

[Neo C.]

They bomb because publishers aren't doing their job. It's their job to make people want to buy the game. It's not consumers' job to do them favors - especially with used games and huge price drops.

And when the publishers don't get their money back, they won't increase their software support.

No matter whom you see as the scapegoat, both sides are needed and every decision the consumers and the publishers made will influence the software support.

 

[Shurs]

They buy games for the value proposition that they offer.

I know I do. I'll hold off on buying a short game that lacks multiplayer or a game that seemingly has little replay value until I can find it for $40. I did this for Bioshock, Heavenly Sword, Mirror's Edge, Dead Space and Prince of Persia.

 

[MotherFan]

And when the publishers don't get their money back, they won't increase their software support.

No matter whom you see as the scapegoat, both sides are needed and every decision the consumers and the publishers made will influence the software support.

Its a company's job to make the consumer want to buy the product. Its not the consumers fault if they do not buy. This is business.

 

[Neo C.]

Its a company's job to make the consumer want to buy the product. Its not the consumers fault if they do not buy. This is business.

And it's not the publishers fault if they don't support a console because the consumers don't buy their games. Business is essentially a relationship. I can't blame the companies to avoid a platform when they can't make money on it.

 

[Vinci]

And when the publishers don't get their money back, they won't increase their software support.

No matter whom you see as the scapegoat, both sides are needed and every decision the consumers and the publishers made will influence the software support.

My point is this: 3rd parties have been around long enough to understand how systems work. They know you grow a system's library into something that allows for maximum freedom and penetration in virtually any genre. Suddenly, a Nintendo console is selling like a bat out of hell and what do they do? Release shit. One after another after another. Three years in, most of the gamers who bought the Wii following its potential as a product are disinclined to believe in the system as a traditional console for them to enjoy.

In a sense, this consideration that a Nintendo console is somehow completely different than any other console in history and must be treated in a very careful, unique way is nonsense - and it's like they've had blinders on all gen.

If they had done what they should have in the first place and approach it like a hot, more affordable option, using primarily franchises and/or concepts that don't require HD or online to implement, we would not be having this conversation right now.

Developers lead consumers. This is true in how they behave within games (rewards indicate direction) and it's true in terms of how they market products. What they're doing is like a dog chasing its own tail.

 

[MotherFan]

My point is this: 3rd parties have been around long enough to understand how systems work. They know you grow a system's library into something that allows for maximum freedom and penetration in virtually any genre. Suddenly, a Nintendo console is selling like a bat out of hell and what do they do? Release shit. One after another after another. Three years in, most of the gamers who bought the Wii following its potential as a product are disinclined to believe in the system as a traditional console for them to enjoy.

In a sense, this consideration that a Nintendo console is somehow completely different than any other console in history and must be treated in a very careful, unique way is nonsense - and it's like they've had blinders on all gen.

If they had done what they should have in the first place and approach it like a hot, more affordable option, using primarily franchises and/or concepts that don't require HD or online to implement, we would not be having this conversation right now.

Developers lead consumers. This is true in how they behave within games (rewards indicate direction) and it's true in terms of how they market products. What they're doing is like a dog chasing its own tail.

This sums up my feelings exactly.

 

[Neo C.]

My point is this: 3rd parties have been around long enough to understand how systems work. They know you grow a system's library into something that allows for maximum freedom and penetration in virtually any genre. Suddenly, a Nintendo console is selling like a bat out of hell and what do they do? Release shit. One after another after another. Three years in, most of the gamers who bought the Wii following its potential as a product are disinclined to believe in the system as a traditional console for them to enjoy.

While I understand the sentiments of you guys, I still think the Wii would get much better support if games like Little King's Story got more impressive sales. I get it, some games -even when they are good - are niche, though sometimes it sounds like "they are niche, so I don't bother buying them".

Though, who cares. In the end, the Wii will get more good games no matter what, the growing userbase doesn't allow the companies to waste the opportunity.

 

[Sadist]

My point is this: 3rd parties have been around long enough to understand how systems work. They know you grow a system's library into something that allows for maximum freedom and penetration in virtually any genre. Suddenly, a Nintendo console is selling like a bat out of hell and what do they do? Release shit. One after another after another. Three years in, most of the gamers who bought the Wii following its potential as a product are disinclined to believe in the system as a traditional console for them to enjoy.

In a sense, this consideration that a Nintendo console is somehow completely different than any other console in history and must be treated in a very careful, unique way is nonsense - and it's like they've had blinders on all gen.

If they had done what they should have in the first place and approach it like a hot, more affordable option, using primarily franchises and/or concepts that don't require HD or online to implement, we would not be having this conversation right now.

Developers lead consumers. This is true in how they behave within games (rewards indicate direction) and it's true in terms of how they market products. What they're doing is like a dog chasing its own tail.

Excelent post.

Makes me think of an interview with Miyamoto at the beginning of the Gamecube era. They were talking about developing philosofies and getting in touch with third parties being Nintendo. Third parties went into Cube development, asking what to do and Nintendo came with some advice and third parties would answer: "huh, but we actually had something like this planned" Nintendo would respond: "Finally, that's what we want". This has been going on ever since end N64/Cube era. Or Nintendo can't communicate very well or third parties don't understand them at all. I think it's a bit of both.

 

[Dunlop]

I did this for Bioshock, Heavenly Sword, Mirror's Edge, Dead Space and Prince of Persia.

LIES!!!!!

ok..I'm joking. The one thing that pisses me off about the PS3 is the games drop in price so slowly. I still have not picked up Uncharted or Heavenly Sword because they are still full price.

I pick up cheap 360 and Wii games like they are candy

 

[Shurs]

LIES!!!!!

ok..I'm joking. The one thing that pisses me off about the PS3 is the games drop in price so slowly. I still have not picked up Uncharted or Heavenly Sword because they are still full price.

I pick up cheap 360 and Wii games like they are candy

Luckily I found it on clearance at Target.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Who can forget when it was suddenly decided that GTA was now hardcore instead of for everyone.

I will never understand this.

The only possible way for a title like CoD, Halo, GTA, Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, any game that sells over a million units, has to have a huge mass market following. We are very few. They are many.

 

[Vinci]

While I understand the sentiments of you guys, I still think the Wii would get much better support if games like Little King's Story got more impressive sales. I get it, some games -even when they are good - are niche, though sometimes it sounds like "they are niche, so I don't bother buying them".

And I'm saying that Little King's Story would be selling better if developers hadn't treated the system like shit for its growing years. Nintendo alone can't grow the system's library, though they did a good variety of projects in its first 18 months - a clear indication that they felt any genre and type of game could succeed on the thing. Meanwhile, 3rd parties are looking at the Wii and going, "Why the fuck is it selling so well?" and automatically assume that it's because only the top sellers can sell on it. Nevermind the fact that Nintendo didn't put out a legion of Wii Sports games. Seriously, they read way too much into this. Leave the disruptive games to the company that actually gets them; 3rd parties should've just done what they'd been doing for 9 years on the PS2. Do their thing. Do what they understand.

Though, who cares. In the end, the Wii will get more good games no matter what, the growing userbase doesn't allow the companies to waste the opportunity.

Sure it will. I'm just ranting on what I perceive to be one of the most ridiculous industry fuck-ups in recent memory. Seriously, they couldn't have made their situation any worse if they'd tried.

 

[Flavius]

What the hell happened with BC? I haven't been paying much attention to the games as i dont have a PS3 or 360, and it seems I'm not the only one.

I thought that would sell to the old-skool crowd...

They fucked up by giving me exactly what I wanted beforehand: Rearmed.

Honestly, that was pretty much all I needed.

 

[Arpharmd B]

Wii

\

DS

PS2

Bionic Commando

In case anyone missed it. It's really fitting the UFC theme this month.

 

[Azih]

They know you grow a system's library into something that allows for maximum freedom and penetration in virtually any genre

*NO*. It is *not* the developer's responsiblity to grow a system's library. The developers responsibility is merely to produce games that they believe the audience of a system will buy. The. End.

 

[gabe90]

While I understand the sentiments of you guys, I still think the Wii would get much better support if games like Little King's Story got more impressive sales. I get it, some games -even when they are good - are niche, though sometimes it sounds like "they are niche, so I don't bother buying them".

Though, who cares. In the end, the Wii will get more good games no matter what, the growing userbase doesn't allow the companies to waste the opportunity.

If I didn't hang out on the NeoGAF, I NEVER would have heard about Little King's Story. Is it even out yet in the US?

My point is this: 3rd parties have been around long enough to understand how systems work. They know you grow a system's library into something that allows for maximum freedom and penetration in virtually any genre. Suddenly, a Nintendo console is selling like a bat out of hell and what do they do? Release shit. One after another after another. Three years in, most of the gamers who bought the Wii following its potential as a product are disinclined to believe in the system as a traditional console for them to enjoy.

In a sense, this consideration that a Nintendo console is somehow completely different than any other console in history and must be treated in a very careful, unique way is nonsense - and it's like they've had blinders on all gen.

If they had done what they should have in the first place and approach it like a hot, more affordable option, using primarily franchises and/or concepts that don't require HD or online to implement, we would not be having this conversation right now.

Developers lead consumers. This is true in how they behave within games (rewards indicate direction) and it's true in terms of how they market products. What they're doing is like a dog chasing its own tail.

This is a great post. The 3rd parties have created the situation that currently exists on the Wii. They could have supported both the casuals and the gamers from last gen, but they chose to create cheap minigames, not understanding that Nintendo has their AAA team making Wii Sports. The result is an overwhelming amount of Wii games that no one buys because they're horrible, and customers who have a hard time realizing which games are actually quality because they're all alike!

The 3rd party games that have come to Wii are all niche or spinoffs. There has not been a single example of a real 3rd party franchise coming to the Wii exclusively that the core gamers have had a chance to rally behind.

 

[Volcynika]

If I didn't hang out on the NeoGAF, I NEVER would have heard about Little King's Story. Is it even out yet in the US?

Not yet, comes out in July.

:/

 

[Barrett2]

They bomb because publishers aren't doing their job. It's their job to make people want to buy the game. It's not consumers' job to do them favors - especially with used games and huge price drops.

This. Granted, im' not in the industry, so maybe there are business reasons against this I am not aware of; but it seems to me there are so many little things publishers / devs could do with their games to encourage sales.

Put in voucher codes for week 1 or month 1 free downloads, encouraging early adopters. Toss in a stupid $2.99 figurine / action figure and sell it as a "limited edition" launch bundle but at the same $60 price point; encouraging early sales. Include a big sticker on the packaging with a $5-off coupon for other games by the same publisher if customers buy that game, etc..

It just seems like there are so many basic marketing-oriented ways to help increase a games' profile; it just amazes me that a big game like BC could go through the entire production cycle; but at the end of the day they have a few web-ads, a few dev interviews with hard-core magazines, and then trot it out there for $60.

I often get the feeling game publishers are too enamored with the movie business. Spend tons of cash making 10 games, know that 8 of them will lose money; but cross your fingers and hope one or two of them is a smash hit that recoups losses for the rest.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Wii needs a price drop. They are dropping off in America and Japan. I guess it'll be 199 this holiday.

 

[Shurs]

Wii needs a price drop. They are dropping off in America and Japan. I guess it'll be 199 this holiday.

They're still smoking the competition.