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[markatisu]

Wii needs a price drop. They are dropping off in America and Japan. I guess it'll be 199 this holiday.

Yeah because US and JP are the same market and have identical results..gtfo

I find it funny how the most interesting thing in this sad NPD is that Bionic Commando (an HD game) royally superbly super bombed and yet most of the discussion is the plights of 3rd party games on the Wii :lol

 

[donny2112]

Still catching up, but I wanted to go ahead and post this.

Paging donny....what was your last guess? 200k?+

300K+ first month, and I still think there's good reason to think it'll do that well. Of course, I also thought there was good reason for the PS2 to increase in May over April, and that didn't turn out so well. :/

I think that the idea is not that FPS fans are looking for their Wii fix, but that Wii fans are looking for their FPS fix.

This plus PS360 owners who find worth in the Wii's pointer controls for FPSs. To repost an previous post of mine ...

Who The Conduit is not for:

* PS360 owners who don't find much worth in the Wii's FPS control possibilities.

Who The Conduit is for:

* PS360 owners who find significant worth in the Wii's FPS control possibilities.
* Wii-only owners who want good FPSs (online, controls, graphics).
* Wii-only owners who are willing to try FPSs and want to see what the fuss is about.

 

[pakkit]

In case anyone missed it. It's really fitting the UFC theme this month.

Oh thanks, I didn't get it the first time.

 

[dammitmattt]

Some Wii owners (I have 31 Wii titles btw) are way to selective or specific. Even when a good game comes around there is one big flaw that disqualifies the title for purchase. That's my point. Where do we draw the line?

Gamefly.

And most people don't have that kind of money to spend on games.

 

[PSGames]

The only company you can blame for the Wii not having 3rd Party support is Nintendo. Nintendo produced a console that the majority of 3rd Parties are not excited to work on and so we the gamers have to suffer. If they had released a Wii with a competent increase in graphics we wouldn't be having these problems.

 

[dammitmattt]

Yeah because US and JP are the same market and have identical results..gtfo

I find it funny how the most interesting thing in this sad NPD is that Bionic Commando (an HD game) royally superbly super bombed and yet most of the discussion is the plights of 3rd party games on the Wii :lol

Because in the same month a 3rd party HD game sold over a million units. And Bionic Commando is nowhere near as high-profile as something like The Conduit in the "core" world.

 

[SecretBonusPoint]

This. Granted, im' not in the industry, so maybe there are business reasons against this I am not aware of; but it seems to me there are so many little things publishers / devs could do with their games to encourage sales.

Put in voucher codes for week 1 or month 1 free downloads, encouraging early adopters. Toss in a stupid $2.99 figurine / action figure and sell it as a "limited edition" launch bundle but at the same $60 price point; encouraging early sales. Include a big sticker on the packaging with a $5-off coupon for other games by the same publisher if customers buy that game, etc..

It just seems like there are so many basic marketing-oriented ways to help increase a games' profile; it just amazes me that a big game like BC could go through the entire production cycle; but at the end of the day they have a few web-ads, a few dev interviews with hard-core magazines, and then trot it out there for $60.

I often get the feeling game publishers are too enamored with the movie business. Spend tons of cash making 10 games, know that 8 of them will lose money; but cross your fingers and hope one or two of them is a smash hit that recoups losses for the rest.

I'm gonna go out here on a limb and say Grin missed a deadline or due date due to deals with Wanted and Terminator. Ben Judd has completely fallen off the map, I don't know what the last thing I've heard from him is. I haven't seen any promotion for Bionic Commando outside of those 'Bionic _________' at Gametrailers, and that was advertising the website at the end not the game. ReArmed however had a massive advertising push, and look it sold shitloads.

No single player demo to get people hooked (multiplayer is kinda barebones and assy, sorry but it was never gonna be a main selling point in that condition), complete media blitz but I think more importantly the game should have been released months after ReArmed. Any buzz from ReArmed has completely disappeared by this point.

I think there are lot of people in the games industry responsible for promotion and retail strategy that just need to be fired. Theyre clearly not good at their jobs. Hearing that Radd Spencer's redesign to 'surfer dude' was down to a Focus Group sort of says a lot. Its frustrating to see, because a lot of people's hard work goes to waste, and I won't get my Bionic Commando 2. Ideally however, we will get a ReArmed 2!

 

[Barrett2]

Gamefly.

And most people don't have that kind of money to spend on games.

Truth. One of GAF's big flaws is the number of either rich members or people who recklessly spend way too much cash on games, who therefore have a lower threshold of expectation. It always perturbs me when some random system owner responds to a post about "nothing to play on ____" by posting a pic of their 200 game collection. Just because you have the ability / inclination to buy every game that scores higher than a 5 on Metacritic, doesn't mean it is good.

/rant

I'm gonna go out here on a limb and say Grin missed a deadline or due date due to deals with Wanted and Terminator. Ben Judd has completely fallen off the map, I don't know what the last thing I've heard from him is. I haven't seen any promotion for Bionic Commando outside of those 'Bionic _________' at Gametrailers, and that was advertising the website at the end not the game. ReArmed however had a massive advertising push, and look it sold shitloads.

On the most recent Capcom Unity podcast, Ben Judd spoke for quite a while about BC; basically alluding to the fact that they received very little support / resources from Capcom, and were unable to do even basic things like PSN Trophies, solely because lack of manpower. Granted, im' sure part of that talk was self-serving; but it did make me feel some sympathy for them; sounds like Capcom made very little effort with the game.

 

[manueldelalas]

Because in the same month a 3rd party HD game sold over a million units. And Bionic Commando is nowhere near as high-profile as something like The Conduit in the "core" world.

Yes it is, in fact BC is the bigger bomb independently of what The Conduit sells. BC is the bomb of the month.

And UFC is just an extension of the WWF craze there was a few years ago. It's the same publisher, I don't find it all that surprising it sold well. It is a casual game after all.

 

[Jokeropia]

May is traditionally one of the slowest months of the year. Things tend to pick up in June.

Yeah, that's my feeling too. We'd need some numbers, but I have the impression that as compared to the PS2, it's completely nosediving.

Well these numbers are still ahead of every PS2 May except 2002 where it just dropped to $199.

Would Wii's core titles sell any worse if it was built as a Gamecube 2.0? Obviously the install base would be much lower, but its core software titles seem on par with last generations

Actually, most of Nintendo's core Wii first party releases beat their predecessors.

 

[Vinci]

The only company you can blame for the Wii not having 3rd Party support is Nintendo. Nintendo produced a console that the majority of 3rd Parties are not excited to work on and so we the gamers have to suffer. If they had released a Wii with a competent increase in graphics we wouldn't be having these problems.

Nintendo's output in the first 18 months varied dramatically from one genre to another; they hit virtually every single one in gaming within that period. This should have painted 3rd parties a damn road map of sorts: We would not invest in these games if we felt they could not sell on it.

Nintendo never said that traditional games wouldn't sell on the thing; hell, their library suggests the exact opposite. Yes, there are huge casual hits created by Nintendo, but that's not all they've produced by a long shot. They've simply done what comes naturally to them. That's it. They tried playing by Sony and MS's rules last gen and they got screwed for doing so; this time, they're playing to their strengths, just as Sony and MS are playing to theirs.

3rd parties should've done the exact same thing, but they didn't.

 

[Scrubking]

And it's not the publishers fault if they don't support a console because the consumers don't buy their games. Business is essentially a relationship. I can't blame the companies to avoid a platform when they can't make money on it.

There are no scapegoats. If you are selling something and it doesn't sell the only one to blame is yourself. You are doing something wrong.

And yes there is a relationship involved, but like all relationships they need to be established. People buy 4 Million copies of RE5 because they know RE and have a good relationship with the brand. It took Capcom many years and sequels to build up that relationship. It didn't happen over night.

Like a man trying to get laid it's the publishers job to court the consumer and get them into bed. Simply existing (on a particular console), isn't going to cut it.

 

[Haunted]

nevermind.

 

[Sadist]

Gamefly.

And most people don't have that kind of money to spend on games.

I guess that works in America.

In Europe we don't have gamerentals. Well, not that I know off

 

[Vinci]

Like a man trying to get laid it's the publishers job to court the consumer and get them into bed. Simply existing (on a particular console), isn't going to cut it.

It worked on the PS2. But I think that's what is at least partly to blame for how things are shaking out this gen: They were spoiled on that thing; it's like they forgot how to make smart business decisions that mean life or death for your company.

 

[Barrett2]

I guess that works in America.

In Europe we don't have gamerentals. Well, not that I know off

Nintendo tried very hard to make game rentals illegal in America in the 80s. Luckily we have a little something called freedom.

USA USA USA!!

 

[Azih]

The 3rd parties have created the situation that currently exists on the Wii

This is Nuts. 3rd parties are THIRD PARTIES, they are not responsible for the Wii. NINTENDO is responsible for the Wii.

 

[Raist]

Well these numbers are still ahead of every PS2 May except 2002 where it just dropped to $199.

Not talking about the raw, total numbers, but the "shape" of the curves, if you will.

 

[pakkit]

There are no scapegoats. If you are selling something and it doesn't sell the only one to blame is yourself. You are doing something wrong.

There is more to gaming, and marketable media in general, then the bottom line.

A lot of devs have segmented the market by putting more niche games on the Wii, due to its unique control scheme (Zack & Wiki, MadWorld) or simply because it wasn't economically feasible on HD consoles (Muramasa, No More Heroes). And I'm absolutely grateful to them for that.

 

[Firestorm]

Nintendo tried very hard to make game rentals illegal in America in the 80s. Luckily we have a little something called freedom.

USA USA USA!!

...until 1998 when the DMCA was created

 

[dammitmattt]

Yes it is, in fact BC is the bigger bomb independently of what The Conduit sells. BC is the bomb of the month.

There's no doubt it's a huge bomb, but that wasn't the point of the discussion. People were asking why The Conduit is being discussed more. It's because it's the latest game that a few "core" gamers are pinning a lot of hope on. No one had any such illusions regarding Bionic Commando.

And UFC is just an extension of the WWF craze there was a few years ago. It's the same publisher, I don't find it all that surprising it sold well. It is a casual game after all.

It might have appeal to a more casual market that doesn't play a lot of games, but by no means is it a "casual" game. It's a very tough and complicated game that appeals to both people who just want to mash buttons and people who want to learn every nuance. Just like Madden.

And UFC is a sport, not a show. It has MUCH more in common with boxing than wrestling.

 

[Opiate]

This is Nuts. 3rd parties are THIRD PARTIES, they are not responsible for the Wii. NINTENDO is responsible for the Wii.

I agree, they are not responsible, although word choice is very important here. Third parties don't "owe" Nintendo anything, but it's certainly true that the reason the 360 and PS3 sell shooters so well is that so many major third parties have decided to put their games on those systems.

What do you feel Nintendo should have done differently? I ask that question honestly.

 

[Opiate]

Not talking about the raw, total numbers, but the "shape" of the curves, if you will.

Yes, I agree, Raist. In absolute terms the Wii is still doing well, but in relative terms (which should matter to Nintendo) this is a significant slowdown they should take notice of.

 

[Barrett2]

...until 1998 when the DMCA was created

freedom isn't free....

Spoiler

it takes folks like you and me....

 

[dammitmattt]

I agree, they are not responsible, although word choice is very important here. Third parties don't "owe" Nintendo anything, but it's certainly true that the reason the 360 and PS3 sell shooters so well is that so many major third parties have decided to put their games on those systems.

Well, and because of what the PS3/360 technology allows them to do.

 

[Scrubking]

It worked on the PS2. But I think that's what is at least partly to blame for how things are shaking out this gen: They were spoiled on that thing; it's like they forgot how to make smart business decisions that mean life or death for your company.

The thing is, and this is something that I think is largely overlooked, is that publishers have depended on the videogame press to promote and advertise their games. Instead of making expensive TV ads they get lots of previews and hype articles and spread the word around. This worked with the PS2 because the PS2 was well liked and there was no problem getting the publications hyped and talking about a game. This does't happen with the Wii because the videogame press hates it. EGM refused to review certain Wii games instead throwing them into the back of the magazine where they could trash them. One week after WaW came out, the best FPS on Wii at the time, there were only 5 Wii reviews total. In other words the videogame press avenue that publishers used for the PS2 just doesn't work for the Wii. So you just can't put a game on the Wii with little effort like before.

 

[Vinci]

This is Nuts. 3rd parties are THIRD PARTIES, they are not responsible for the Wii. NINTENDO is responsible for the Wii.

No, they're responsible for maintaining territories in which they can easily market and sell their products. They're responsible for making money. Right now, they have mitigated their standing to a severe degree on the market leader - not because of what Nintendo did but because they approached the platform as an anomaly, an enigma. Rather than leading with their strengths and making cost-effective decisions that would allow them breathing room on all the available systems, they segmented the market to the point where the only valid choice is one of attrition. They have trapped themselves inside a massive and very deep red ocean.

It was short-sighted and stupid.

 

[SapientWolf]

There's no doubt it's a huge bomb, but that wasn't the point of the discussion. People were asking why The Conduit is being discussed more. It's because it's the latest game that a few "core" gamers are pinning a lot of hope on. No one had any such illusions regarding Bionic Commando.



It might have appeal to a more casual market that doesn't play a lot of games, but by no means is it a "casual" game. It's a very tough and complicated game that appeals to both people who just want to mash buttons and people who want to learn every nuance. Just like Madden.

And UFC is a sport, not a show. It has MUCH more in common with boxing than wrestling.

BC was kind of sent to die. The pushed it out in the middle of the summer with no advertising push, during a huge sandbox game renaissance (Red Faction, Prototype, and Infamous).

The Conduit will likely have a long tail because it is a high quality online FPS built from the ground up for the Wii. There are almost no other games with that pedigree.

 

[norinrad21]

This is Nuts. 3rd parties are THIRD PARTIES, they are not responsible for the Wii. NINTENDO is responsible for the Wii.

True enough and at least they won't have Nintendo to blame when their HD adventures fail

 

[Azih]

I agree, they are not responsible, although word choice is very important here. Third parties don't "owe" Nintendo anything, but it's certainly true that the reason the 360 and PS3 sell shooters so well is that so many major third parties have decided to put their games on those systems.

But what I'm saying is that the reason major third parties have decided to put their games on those systems is they believe those games can sell there. I mean I have no idea how Call of Duty games sell on the wii, but how does it compare to PS3 and 360?

What do you feel Nintendo should have done differently? I ask that question honestly.

Well if the goal is to get more third parties to sell shooters than Nintendo should have created more of their own shooters and given them huge marketing pushes, given incentives to get a few exclusives on their system, basically the way Sony pushes Resistence and KillZone and MS pushes Halo and Gears and both fellate the Call of Duty franchise. Basically build an audience on the Wii that third parties are confident they can sell shooters too.

The same goes for JRPGs, WRPGs, Racers, Sports, etc.

It's obvious that Nintendo doesn't care to do this for some quite good reasons (biggest being they're making MAD MONEY as is) but the result is that no game dev feels confident that there is an audience they can sell their 'core' games too.

 

[Opiate]

But what I'm saying is that the reason major third parties have decided to put their games on those systems is they believe those games can sell there. I mean I have no idea how Call of Duty games sell on the wii, but how does it compare to PS3 and 360?

And why do they think they will sell there? Because many other games in the same genre came before them and sold well. That's how ecosystems are built. The Wii had an FPS at launch that sold well (Red Steel), but for some reason no one followed suit. Even the Red Steel developers have been slow to follow up.

Well if the goal is to get more third parties to sell shooters than Nintendo should have created more of their own shooters and given them huge marketing pushes, given incentives to get a few exclusives on their system

You mean the way Nintendo has created their own Platformer, Kart Racer, 4P Brawler, and Adventure Game? If it's as simple as this, why aren't we seeing a wealth of high budget Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Smash Brothers and Zelda clones?

And are we endorsing moneyhats here, e.g. paying for advertising etc?

Again, these questions are not intended to be rhetorical. I'm listening, Azih.

 

[gabe90]

The thing is, and this is something that I think is largely overlooked, is that publishers have depended on the videogame press to promote and advertise their games. Instead of making expensive TV ads they get lots of previews and hype articles and spread the word around. This worked with the PS2 because the PS2 was well liked and there was no problem getting the publications hyped and talking about a game. This does't happen with the Wii because the videogame press hates it. EGM refused to review certain Wii games instead throwing them into the back of the magazine where they could trash them. One week after WaW came out, the best FPS on Wii at the time, there were only 5 Wii reviews total. In other words the videogame press avenue that publishers used for the PS2 just doesn't work for the Wii. So you just can't put a game on the Wii with little effort like before.

This is an interesting point. And with the traditional mainstream media pretty much dying, it's getting harder and harder to get press for non AAA games.

Unfortunately viral marketing is still not a science, and most marketers don't understand how to use it, so while the trade press ignores the Wii, and the mainstream press doesn't have the resources to cover anything but the biggest games, nothing else has come in to replace this hole.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Well, and because of what the PS3/360 technology allows them to do.

I've seen stuff like this mentioned before, and I've played my fair share of shooters, both FP and TP over the years. Other than improved graphics, I'm not seeing anything that couldn't be done, or hadn't been done before. IMHO the best technical improvement to come to FP and TP shooters on a console is IR pointer controls.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

My point is this: 3rd parties have been around long enough to understand how systems work. They know you grow a system's library into something that allows for maximum freedom and penetration in virtually any genre. Suddenly, a Nintendo console is selling like a bat out of hell and what do they do? Release shit. One after another after another. Three years in, most of the gamers who bought the Wii following its potential as a product are disinclined to believe in the system as a traditional console for them to enjoy.

In a sense, this consideration that a Nintendo console is somehow completely different than any other console in history and must be treated in a very careful, unique way is nonsense - and it's like they've had blinders on all gen.

If they had done what they should have in the first place and approach it like a hot, more affordable option, using primarily franchises and/or concepts that don't require HD or online to implement, we would not be having this conversation right now.

Developers lead consumers. This is true in how they behave within games (rewards indicate direction) and it's true in terms of how they market products. What they're doing is like a dog chasing its own tail.

So superbly done. This is a good NPD thread.

 

[Opiate]

I've seen stuff like this mentioned before, and I've played my fair share of shooters, both FP and TP over the years. Other than improved graphics, I'm not seeing anything that couldn't be done, or hadn't been done before. IMHO the best technical improvement to come to FP and TP shooters on a console is IR pointer controls.

In your opinion. Others may disagree, and I'd argue that many publishers disagreed, at least at the entry in to the generation. They believed that most people would care more about the graphical/technical upgrade than the interface change. The publishers are the important ones here.

It's entirely possible that if third party publishers had supported the Wii with a wealth of shooters from the beginning, there may be more people who feel like you do -- in fact, I suspect there would be a great deal more. But we'll never know, because that didn't happen. We don't always get what we want, and life isn't always fair.

 

[Version 3.0]

You mean the way Nintendo has created their own Platformer, Kart Racer, 4P Brawler, and Adventure Game? If it's as simple as this, why aren't we seeing a wealth of high budget Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Smash Brothers and Zelda clones?

It's true that Nintendo has made key games in their usual franchises, and some extra ones also. But all the publicity about the Wii has been around Wii Sports, and all of Nintendo's own PR (and BS) has been about Wii Sports and "non-gamers" getting on board. So publishers have an excuse to make Wii Sports clones instead of Zelda or Smash Bros clones.

And that's really what it is: an excuse. They chose to make cheap Wii games rather than expensive ones, it's as simple as that.

I don't condone publishers copying Nintendo anyway, although sometimes it definitely works; copying Wii Fit is obviously paying off well. But I still think complimenting Nintendo is a better strategy. Plenty of genres and demographics have been wide open on the Wii since day 1, but they'ved been neglected or even actively driven away by publishers' treatment of the Wii.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Was this posted?
Bionic Commando sold 30k across all systems.

Late to the thread but FUCK! =(

I personally love BC

 

[Opiate]

It's true that Nintendo has made key games in their usual franchises, and some extra ones also. But all the publicity about the Wii has been around Wii Sports, and all of Nintendo's own PR (and BS) has been about Wii Sports and "non-gamers" getting on board. So publishers have an excuse to make Wii Sports clones instead of Zelda or Smash Bros clones.

And that's really what it is: an excuse. They chose to make cheap Wii games rather than expensive ones, it's as simple as that.

I don't condone publishers copying Nintendo anyway, although sometimes it definitely works; copying Wii Fit is obviously paying off well. But I still think complimenting Nintendo is a better strategy. Plenty of genres and demographics have been wide open on the Wii since day 1, but they'ved been neglected or even actively driven away by publishers' treatment of the Wii.

That is antithetical to virtually every company's philosophy in the industry. You apparently view a gap in a system's library as an opportunity to exploit; third parties almost certainly view it as a risk with no historical precedent to provide statistics and feedback.

Very few publishers are interested in blazing new trails -- as THQ put it, they are "risk averse," as Ubisoft put it, they "basically copy" -- they are interested in copying the few games that manage to break out. Wii Sports and Wii Fit are examples, and from last generation (and still going strong), Grand Theft Auto and Halo. So we get Wii Sports/Fit clones on the Wii, and FPS/Sandbox/Shooters on the 360 and PS3.

I'm not suggesting you're wrong, or that what you're saying is dumb. I'm just pointing out that this simply isn't how most companies work, and that isn't changing.

 

[chubigans]

I don't think it was fair for IGN to attribute failure of the Bionic Commando downloadable game to attract buyers for the retail version. It came out last year after all. Had Capcom delayed the BC downloadable till about one month before BC retail came out, I think there would have been a much better result.

 

[Arpharmd B]

The Wii does not need a price cut.

They are on the verge of a huge software release (Resort). That alone will push the system back into it's usual numbers. They are probably looking forward to squeezing one last Christmas in at 249$.

That's USA. Japan has Resort AND Monster Hunter.

After this holiday, they could finally do a tiny 50$ price drop and it'll be pandimonium all through 2010. Hell, they could probably drop to 149$ and still make money off the console.

 

[dammitmattt]

I've seen stuff like this mentioned before, and I've played my fair share of shooters, both FP and TP over the years. Other than improved graphics, I'm not seeing anything that couldn't be done, or hadn't been done before. IMHO the best technical improvement to come to FP and TP shooters on a console is IR pointer controls.

Online, community, and you can't downplay the graphics. The precision and clarity that something like COD4 in 720p at 60fps offers just can't be discounted.

 

[nincompoop]

Online, community, and you can't downplay the graphics. The precision and clarity that something like COD4 in 720p at 60fps offers just can't be discounted.

COD4 isn't 720p and no other shooters on PS360 are 60fps. The PC is the only place to get high definition shooters with smooth framerates.

 

[Vinci]

The Wii does not need a price cut.

They are on the verge of a huge software release (Resort). That alone will push the system back into it's usual numbers. They are probably looking forward to squeezing one last Christmas in at 249$.

That's USA. Japan has Resort AND Monster Hunter.

After this holiday, they could finally do a tiny 50$ price drop and it'll be pandimonium all through 2010. Hell, they could probably drop to 149$ and still make money off the console.

Isn't MH3 slated for release in NA in March? Don't drop the price, just bring out the black Wii at the same time like they're doing in Japan.

 

[vanguardian1]

Online, community, and you can't downplay the graphics. The precision and clarity that something like COD4 in 720p at 60fps offers just can't be discounted.

I'm sure online and community are nice when you have access to them. Last I checked, 30% of Americans don't by default. *raises hand*

 

[Shin Johnpv]

In your opinion. Others may disagree, and I'd argue that many publishers disagreed, at least at the entry in to the generation. They believed that most people would care more about the graphical/technical upgrade than the interface change. The publishers are the important ones here.

That still doesn't answer what technical advantage the HD twins offer for a shooter over the Wii other than better graphics. I'm still waiting to hear a real answer to this. People can claim AI but I personally haven't played a game yet where I've gone fuck that AI is amazing, it all seems like the same shit to me. People claim physics but has rag doll physics actually made a change in gameplay?

 

[AgentOtaku]

On the most recent Capcom Unity podcast, Ben Judd spoke for quite a while about BC; basically alluding to the fact that they received very little support / resources from Capcom, and were unable to do even basic things like PSN Trophies, solely because lack of manpower. Granted, im' sure part of that talk was self-serving; but it did make me feel some sympathy for them; sounds like Capcom made very little effort with the game.

Yeah? ...gotta give this a listen then

 

[Vinci]

That still doesn't answer what technical advantage the HD twins offer for a shooter over the Wii other than better graphics. I'm still waiting to hear a real answer to this. People can claim AI but I personally haven't played a game yet where I've gone fuck that AI is amazing, it all seems like the same shit to me. People claim physics but has rag doll physics actually made a change in gameplay?

The biggest issue with FPS games on the Wii is online. People can bitch about graphics all they like; if the online isn't there and up to a certain standard, they consider it a notch above shovelware and won't touch it.

 

[dammitmattt]

COD4 isn't 720p and no other shooters on PS360 are 60fps. The PC is the only place to get high definition shooters with smooth framerates.

I'm comparing to last gen tech. I know your precious PC is much more powerful. I don't care.

That still doesn't answer what technical advantage the HD twins offer for a shooter over the Wii other than better graphics. I'm still waiting to hear a real answer to this. People can claim AI but I personally haven't played a game yet where I've gone fuck that AI is amazing, it all seems like the same shit to me. People claim physics but has rag doll physics actually made a change in gameplay?

Graphics is a HUGE thing. Positional sound is awesome too for those who use it.

The biggest advantages are online and community features.

 

[Version 3.0]

That is antithetical to virtually every company's philosophy in the industry. You apparently view a gap in a system's library as an opportunity to exploit; third parties almost certainly view it as a risk with no historical precedent to provide statistics and feedback.

Very few publishers are interested in blazing new trails -- as THQ put it, they are "risk averse," as Ubisoft put it, they "basically copy" -- they are interested in copying the few games that manage to break out. Wii Sports and Wii Fit are examples, and from last generation (and still going strong), Grand Theft Auto and Halo. So we get Wii Sports/Fit clones on the Wii, and FPS/Sandbox/Shooters on the 360 and PS3.

I'm not suggesting you're wrong, or that what you're saying is dumb. I'm just pointing out that this simply isn't how most companies work, and that isn't changing.

I understand that, but in this case I don't think it should be seen as such a risk. I'm not suggesting they try to make new games that are completely unique (although that's nice, too). I'm simply suggesting there's an exploitable market of firmly established genres that's missing on the Wii. So they can go ahead and copy GTA and Halo, just do it on the Wii.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

The Wii does not need a price cut.

It wouldn't hurt though. It could possibly put the Wii back into being perpetually sold out.

Personally, I wouldn't mind that.