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NPD Sales Results for November 2007
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
the thoroughbred
Member
A random post.
I went into HMV in London yesterday.
This is what really pissed me off about the Wii charts.
1. Bratz
2. Pokemon...
3. SMG
4. Catz
5. Dogz
Come the fuck on there are soo many better games. SMG should be 1st, 2nd, 3rd. I just felt like grabbing each shitty game and setting it on fire, right there.
I went into HMV in London yesterday.
This is what really pissed me off about the Wii charts.
1. Bratz
2. Pokemon...
3. SMG
4. Catz
5. Dogz
Come the fuck on there are soo many better games. SMG should be 1st, 2nd, 3rd. I just felt like grabbing each shitty game and setting it on fire, right there.
Felix Lighter
Member
coralfangs said:
If that were a reality the attach rate of the Xbox 360 would have taken a dive. I'm sure there are instances of this but it obviously hasn't had any significant effect on the sales numbers.
hooijdonk17
Member
Stumpokapow said:
Ah shit. My bad.
I am still confused, why would someone buy a console backup? That sounds incredibly dumb to me and am not sure where you pulled that from.
If people were doing that, shouldn't a company get excited because they found some people who were big enough chumps to buy the same console more than once?
If people were doing that, shouldn't a company get excited because they found some people who were big enough chumps to buy the same console more than once?
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Has Activision issued some PR for this?
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Uncooked said:
Well, I'm buying both a Wii and 360 next year. I'm giving the current consoles to my daughters for their room. It won't be a backup though.
Patcher thinks Nintendo diverted January supply for December based on comments from Ubisoft? Does anyone remember those comments?
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16653
"Despite being "the least promotional of the three," Pachter says that due to Ubisoft comments that Nintendo has diverted January shipments to fill December demand, he believes the Wii has a chance of selling 1.7 million during the month, adding that he thinks '
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16653
"Despite being "the least promotional of the three," Pachter says that due to Ubisoft comments that Nintendo has diverted January shipments to fill December demand, he believes the Wii has a chance of selling 1.7 million during the month, adding that he thinks '
I don't think all the doom and gloom of the PS3 is warranted.
PS3 outsold 360 in Japan in the same timeframe by 154k units. That makes the 360 lead in Japan + America this month by 150k units. Given the anecdotal evidence of strong PS3 sales in Europe, I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that Sony's WW figures for this month were either equal, very close to equal, or surpassed MS's WW figures. Granted, this is in the wake of price drops and new colors (let's see if they can retain this gap in December), but it's still a hopeful sign.
Software numbers are a bit more disturbing, but despite Ratchet, Heavenly Sword, and Uncharted's anemic numbers, AC and CoD4 did quite well. It's quite baffling how multiplat titles are doing so much better than exclusives, as one would think the opposite if, as many have hypothesized, a great many PS3 owners also own a 360 as one of the hardcore. Nevertheless, as long as titles like AC and CoD4 sell this well, they will more than recoup the cost of porting from 360 as the lead SKU. I don't think consumers hold exclusive status against games they're trying to purchase (it's more likely to hurt, if the person owns the 360, since the 360 is usually the lead SKU), so that's not an explanation. It's possible that multiplat games benefit from the advertising blitz on other platforms. If you see an AC ad, even if it has a 360 logo at the end, you can buy it on PS3. But the most likely explanation is simply that the exclusive offerings haven't hit PS3 fanbase's taste yet. They seem to have pretty much the same tastes as the 360 audience (again, increasing the profitability of ports). CoD4 and AC prove that PS3 owners do buy software, but it seems that Ratchet, Uncharted, and Heavenly Sword were not for them.
This is in fact quite depressing. Personally, I don't see the vitriol reserved for the PS3. Sure, I love the schadenfreude of seeing the mighty sony be laid low, and I think they needed to get slapped down so no one tries a 600 dollar gaming machine ever again. But the market segmentation we have right now is quite unhealthy, and will lead to the banishment of many genres to handhelds, if not extinguish them outright. AC and Mass Effect's numbers are good signs that the 360's userbase's tastes are broadening, but even so, a continued 360 dominated marketplace will leave us with little variety: 4-5 AAA shooters a year, and not much else. Don't get me wrong: I love shooters, but I don't need Bioshock, CoD4, Orange Box, and Halo in the same year. Blue dragon and Eternal Sonata's poor numbers are troubling. I had hoped that a resurgent PS3 might revive interest in these genres neglected by the 360, but if this data is to be believed, they gravitate toward shooters as much as the 360 fanbase, leaving this out in the cold.
The only hope left is that the fans of these genres tend to be more casual, and thus are not willing to spend 350 on a gaming console. If this is the case, we can hope that sales of JRPGs et al will increase in proportion to the install base as the price goes down (and probably expect a commensurable drop in the sales of shooters). Such neglected genres might also find new life on the Wii; I will be very interested to see JRPG sales on the Wii in the coming months.
But yeah, at this point you'd need mad moneyhats or be pretty stupid to keep a 3rd-party title exclusive to the PS3. But you'd only have to be slightly less stupid to keep your title exclusive to the 360, given that ports to the PS3 almost always seem to sell well enough to justify the cost of porting.
PS3 outsold 360 in Japan in the same timeframe by 154k units. That makes the 360 lead in Japan + America this month by 150k units. Given the anecdotal evidence of strong PS3 sales in Europe, I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that Sony's WW figures for this month were either equal, very close to equal, or surpassed MS's WW figures. Granted, this is in the wake of price drops and new colors (let's see if they can retain this gap in December), but it's still a hopeful sign.
Software numbers are a bit more disturbing, but despite Ratchet, Heavenly Sword, and Uncharted's anemic numbers, AC and CoD4 did quite well. It's quite baffling how multiplat titles are doing so much better than exclusives, as one would think the opposite if, as many have hypothesized, a great many PS3 owners also own a 360 as one of the hardcore. Nevertheless, as long as titles like AC and CoD4 sell this well, they will more than recoup the cost of porting from 360 as the lead SKU. I don't think consumers hold exclusive status against games they're trying to purchase (it's more likely to hurt, if the person owns the 360, since the 360 is usually the lead SKU), so that's not an explanation. It's possible that multiplat games benefit from the advertising blitz on other platforms. If you see an AC ad, even if it has a 360 logo at the end, you can buy it on PS3. But the most likely explanation is simply that the exclusive offerings haven't hit PS3 fanbase's taste yet. They seem to have pretty much the same tastes as the 360 audience (again, increasing the profitability of ports). CoD4 and AC prove that PS3 owners do buy software, but it seems that Ratchet, Uncharted, and Heavenly Sword were not for them.
This is in fact quite depressing. Personally, I don't see the vitriol reserved for the PS3. Sure, I love the schadenfreude of seeing the mighty sony be laid low, and I think they needed to get slapped down so no one tries a 600 dollar gaming machine ever again. But the market segmentation we have right now is quite unhealthy, and will lead to the banishment of many genres to handhelds, if not extinguish them outright. AC and Mass Effect's numbers are good signs that the 360's userbase's tastes are broadening, but even so, a continued 360 dominated marketplace will leave us with little variety: 4-5 AAA shooters a year, and not much else. Don't get me wrong: I love shooters, but I don't need Bioshock, CoD4, Orange Box, and Halo in the same year. Blue dragon and Eternal Sonata's poor numbers are troubling. I had hoped that a resurgent PS3 might revive interest in these genres neglected by the 360, but if this data is to be believed, they gravitate toward shooters as much as the 360 fanbase, leaving this out in the cold.
The only hope left is that the fans of these genres tend to be more casual, and thus are not willing to spend 350 on a gaming console. If this is the case, we can hope that sales of JRPGs et al will increase in proportion to the install base as the price goes down (and probably expect a commensurable drop in the sales of shooters). Such neglected genres might also find new life on the Wii; I will be very interested to see JRPG sales on the Wii in the coming months.
But yeah, at this point you'd need mad moneyhats or be pretty stupid to keep a 3rd-party title exclusive to the PS3. But you'd only have to be slightly less stupid to keep your title exclusive to the 360, given that ports to the PS3 almost always seem to sell well enough to justify the cost of porting.
I'll keep on saying it until some change happens. Nintendo has the shittiest software advertising. Who knows how much Metroid could've sold by now if they actually advertise games for a second and not have the console be the at the forefront of each and every fuckin ad. And Mario Galaxy could've beat COD if they showed more than 1 sec of video footage in their ads.
Nintendo can leave the "Wii would like to play" bullshit ads for the casual audience. But if they want real gamers to buy their AAA titles, they need to get some more traditional ads going on. The whole situation is just extremely frustrating for me.
Nintendo can leave the "Wii would like to play" bullshit ads for the casual audience. But if they want real gamers to buy their AAA titles, they need to get some more traditional ads going on. The whole situation is just extremely frustrating for me.
knitoe said:
But look at the bloomberg and wsj article titles or subtitles:
"Sony's PlayStation 3 Wins Market Share From Wii, Xbox in U.S."
"A Price Cut Helps PlayStation 3 Close Gap With Rivals"
Always thought "closing the gap" meant actually gaining ground, or at least not losing more ground. And "winning market share" meant winning market share.
IGN and Gametrailers do that work for them, Matt, Bozon save Nintendo loads of money with their in depth footage of games and articles not to mention the usermovies on Youtube that are sometimes well made. One of my friends made a really awesome one for Metroid Prime 3 with the intro music in the background. It's all the marketing Nintendo needs for the hardcore, they seem to understand that they have to target the people that don't visit gaming related websites everyday. Although the Smash Bros. site is obviously aimed at the hardcore and another improvement in their strategy.SLYspyda said:
sonycowboy
Member
AstroLad said:
Uhhhh...
They did gain market share (such as it was). Do the math.
sonycowboy said:
Right, month-to-month (which I assume is what you mean by "such as it was").
I'm just referring to actual LTD market share here. As in the proportion of the market held by the PS3 vs. the market held by the Wii and the 360, both of which outsold the PS3 again.
But yeah, as usual every company will pick the numbers most favorable to them. Just a bit surprised to see the media eating up one version so consistently, but as I said earlier not that surprised considering the NPD "Sony had huge gains! Amazing!" interview yesterday that most of those outlets apparently cribbed from almost entirely.
Don't take this as an affront to NPD either, I was just on NPD Defense Force duty yesterday. Just a casual observation of the coverage.
Zerachiel said:
what? so cause western games on the 360 decided to not buy jrpg with their particular art style and turn based combat? Ac and Mass effect, as well as dead rising, oblivion, GHII and GHIII, rockband and so on show that your statements are off base. Eternal sonata? really? it was all cutesy and kiddie honestly. same for blue dragon. And i would not be surprised if Lost oddesey sells poorly as well. western gamers do not go for turn based combat. that has and will always be a JRPG style of combat. Those games won't sell well in the west no matter what system you put them on. And they were only really made for the Japanese market.
why do shooters and sports game dominate alot of charts? Mulitplayer my friend. Thats the trend, find a way to have your game be social and it will sell. Not just be a shooter. specially here in the west. we love competition. its that simple. next co-op games sell like crazy. let me play your game with my friends. Now you see the importance of live and its impact on software sells.
next there is no evidence that making a game exclusive to the 360 would hurt a dev. they can get extra sales with very little porting from the pc side (xna ) and 360 users buy software like crazy. 2 million sellers in one month. the only data software sells have shown us regarding exclusives is that the ps3 userbase can not support and recoup HD dev costs right now and who knows for how long. yes some mulitplat games have sold well on the ps3. But a pc/360 release did not hurt bioshock and many other exclusives on the 360 side of thing.
so there is alot of speculation in there that i feel previous game sales and market trends don't support your argument. 360 can support exclusives for devs and publishers ps3 can't.
next the western market has never and will never buy in big numbers cutesy, cartoony or turn based Japanese games.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
schuelma said:
1.7 millions is not bad, but it would be interesting to see what Microsoft will do. What did the X360 last year ?
BLaZiN PRopHeT
Member
Mithos Yggdrasill said:
1.1 million i believe
NPD. NPD. NPD. Why must everybody continue to pull out Japan/Europe sales in NPD threads? Its like somebody pulling NPD numbers into Media Create Sales threads, for damage control. In America if its not doom and gloom after this month what is it?Zerachiel said:
It sure is disturbing. And what might these tatses be? Is the world compelled to bend to PS3 user snobbery? I think not. When great games don't sell they way they should, don't blame the devs or Sony, blame the gamers. Also we don't know for sure that all multi platform publishers are recouping the cost of porting it to the system.
Maybe to your tastes, but other RPGs have done ok. My opinion on the sales of those 2 games is the time they were released. Halo month. C'mon how many did you think they would sell?
Outside of Call of Duty4, AC, and GH, what others have sold great?
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
sonycowboy said:
Yeah, but seriously, does it make sense if you compare the rude numbers instead? It is the same thing in Japan: the "closing the gap" between Wii and PS3 doesn't make sense for me as long as PS3 < Wii.
Mithos Yggdrasill said:
depending on wii stock the 360 could actually outsell it or get close. i expect both to be around 1.3-1.5 million for december.
not to say the wii could not sell more. i think the wii could have topped 1.5 million this month and 2 million next if they can get the stock up.
Mithos Yggdrasill said:
and the ps3 has dropped back to its 30-40K a week and dropping back since the price drop, new color while the wii sold over 100k this past week.
the ww argument is based on the thought the ps3 is selling well in europe and the 360 is not. we just don't know. uk the biggest europe market seems to be 360 centric. thus making that market a wash imho. the way i look at it is japan+usa to get a good view. and most months the 360 grows market share in those 2 markets over the ps3. usually by around 50-100k a month cause of how strong the 360 is in the us and how poor the ps3 is really doing in japan(not us bad but its struggling there to some extent as well)
and if sony has to do all these things to get small bumps, 2 price drops etc, eventually they will put themselves in a spot where they can't move anymore. and all this just to try to stay even with a 360 doing very little to enhance its position? not good.
the wii well thats crack. every one will own one eventually :lol
mr_bishiuk
Banned
How relevant is Japan to Western Developed games anyway?
When Epic decide where to put their next IP for instance will the consider how the consoles are fairing there?
Take the gamecube worldwide it sold similar to the Xbox because of Japan but you would not have known it from looking their respective release schedules.
Even in Japan, the 360 sells nothing there (if you can call 500k units that) but can Japanease devs afford to ignore the mountains of money on offer on the 360 table? Capcom must have made a mountain of money of Lost Planet and Dead Rising can the same be said for Ninja Theory and Naughty Dog games with much larger budgets!
When Epic decide where to put their next IP for instance will the consider how the consoles are fairing there?
Take the gamecube worldwide it sold similar to the Xbox because of Japan but you would not have known it from looking their respective release schedules.
Even in Japan, the 360 sells nothing there (if you can call 500k units that) but can Japanease devs afford to ignore the mountains of money on offer on the 360 table? Capcom must have made a mountain of money of Lost Planet and Dead Rising can the same be said for Ninja Theory and Naughty Dog games with much larger budgets!
AstroLad said:
It's all a matter of atrfully misinterpreting the second derivative, as I've pointed out before.
The thing with bringing in PS3 European and Japanese numbers to cushion the damage is that U.S. performance often dictate publisher business decisions. You might narrow the gap in terms of numbers by referring to a worldwide install base, but at the end of the day, it won't matter if it's not going to get you more/better/exclusive/lead sku games.
chespace said:
If the U.S. market was the basis for the PS3's situation, then one could look at PS3's performance in 2007 vs. 360's performance in 2006 and see that it is likely to have a very healthy year of HW sales in 2008.
I don't think any publisher should be changing their development plans at this point.
mr_bishiuk said:
i think japan is becoming smaller and smaller in tis influence. not to be smug but NA is the largest market. the wii had a big weke in japan it sold 100k units. thats what the ps3 did in the us last month.
sales of software over here also is crazy. what like 3 million sellers in the top 5? devs made back costs and made profits in one market alone.
Na is very much the battle ground for what will influence the market going forward. Its japan 5-10 years ago. which why the ps3's sub par nov. is not balanced out by a better japan month and posisbly europe. its what happens here in NA. at least how i see the market right now.
tanod said:
life is never that simple. wii and ps3 had not launched. there was lots of waiting going on. so 2006 was not all the 360 could have been. the ps3 has to battle the wii and the 360 and itself(image, price point).
there are so many other factors. and even than most months the ps3 couldn't even match close to what the 360 did in 2006. subpar 100k months as an example.
next devs and publishers aint guys doing sales age in a forum comparing. they have to make money. and software sells trump anything comparing hardware sells of previuos years will do.
30+ million sellers vs what 3 or 4 maybe? thats what they look at.
tanod said:
Not sure what you mean in the first sentence, but I know for a fact that publishers are constantly evaluating the business landscape to maximize profits.
Some projects are too far gone, while others get re-adjusted to new realities.
Lefty42o said:
PS2 JRPG sales say otherwise. There is a niche market for these types of games in the west, which seems to have shrunk quite far in the jump from this generation to last.
Lefty42o said:
Fine, redefine my complaint from "only shooters" to "only multiplayer games." I like both, but I still want some compelling single-player content with Japanese design sensibilities. At any rate, my main complaint is that a lot of the games that I enjoyed on my PS2 last generation- the Ratchets, Kingdom Hearts, the Disgaeas, the Final FAntasies, hell, the Klonoas- have not found a platform to call home yet. I am skeptical that they would sell to the shooter-heavy western audience the 360 presents, and if PS3 sales continue to be anemic, we might never see these kinds of games on consoles again.
Lefty42o said:
Your last statement is true. However, it is not enough that it "supports." Companies want to make money, period. If there is a way to make them make more money, they will do it. The question isn't whether a million dollar profit on a 360 game is sufficient profit; the question is whether they would make another 500k profit if they ported it to the PS3. In order to prove that not getting a PS3 port would hurt a dev, you have to show that the cost of porting is greater than the revenue they get from the port. Given the numbers I've seen, that a port is typically 10% of the game's overall budget, that's a very difficult argument to make.
Yes, I would say that keeping exclusive to the 360/PC hurt Bioshock's sales. I would imagine, however, that they got a sufficient moneyhat from MS to offset that profit.
Lefty42o said:
WII SUPER MARIO GALAXY NINTENDO OF AMERICA NOV 2007 EVERYONE (E) 2 1.12 million
Fills everything but the turn-based.
FIREBABY said:
Doom and gloom in America, to be sure. But with all due respect, we don't really have a sales age thread to discuss worldwide sales, and those are the only sales that really matter IMO.
Well, I can slightly blame Sony, inasmuch as the current discrepancy between markets is mostly a result of the high price point than anything else. As I said, we can hope that as the price drops, the more casual fans of these games will start buying the systems, and the market will open once more.FIREBABY said:
But yeah, it's mostly the PS3 userbase's fault =P
You misunderstand me slightly: I don't want everyone to "bend to PS3 user snobbery." Like most people here on the board, I want to see the games I enjoy see enough financial success to continue to be produced. This is nothing different than the hardcore gamers worrying that the Wii is restructuring the marketplace to make hardcore games less profitable.
FIREBABY said:
Given that I'd expect the JRPG userbase and the HAlo userbase to be pretty far apart, I'd expect it wouldn't hurt it that much. Regardless, I will hold off judgment until a good JRPG launches at a better time.
As for the other quote, those are the only major multiplat titles you'd expect to sell well, right? I can't think of a multiplat title where the PS3 version has sold poorly.
As for whether they're making money on their ports, I can only rely on the generally bandied about statistic of ports costing about 10% of the initial cost. Assuming that the profit margins on thetwo are the same, a port then need only sell 1/10th of its lead SKU to recoup costs.
Drensch said:
Prince of Persia had advertising out of the dick too. The Prince wasnt this cool looking murderer when Sands of Time came out. That was the problem.
By the time they filled him up with smoldering generic rage it was too late.
Stop by the OT some time and you will
Zerachiel said:
no the ps2 had a user base of over 100 million. so even niche titles could sell well even if to just 2-5 percent of the userbase. thats an issue you fail to look at. and even than they still did not sell to the level of gta, gt, socom. madden, fifa, gh, etc.
next on exclusives with the landscape shaping up ms could throw a couple bucks(no longer 50 million like in the case of gtaIV) cause the market has shown the 360 is a viable market for software and porting a pc game to 360 and vice versa costs almost nothing (xna is a hell of a tool)
risk vs reward. 360/pc is very little risk now and anything you put on the ps3 10 percent of cost or not is still a risk they can choose to avoid all together. very similar to ps2 vs game cube and xbox last gen.
once again 32_million sellers to like 3 or 4 on the ps3. not to mention pc games like bioshock pulling in that extra cash for very little risk
mario is mario. it sells specially since the wii is the market for causal kiddie games. not saying its a kiddie machine but i personally am trying to get another wii for my kids this xmas. there is always exceptions to the rule but your talking established marketed franchise vs new unknown ip's. that comparison is so far off base.
Captain Smoker
Member
Is the Collectors Edition included in the 980.000?Raw64life said:
Lefty42o said:
You could also say that despite the fact that PS3 has two competitors (and way cheaper ones), it's still selling quite as well as the 360, when it had no competition. I'm not sure that the release of consoles that would happen a year later are influencing another system's sales that much.
the thoroughbred said:
Well, that's a double edged sword. You can't have an insane selling system and expect everyone of those consumers to like "good" games. Shitty games are still games, although you may not enjoy them. Wii has a HUGE casual base, and you guys should be happy things like carnival games sell.
chespace said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=214797
Witness one of the most hilarious threads in GAF history... and the downfall and meltdown of yours truly.
Raist said:
we aren't talking bout any other hardware. we are talking bout ms's second console after its sub par xbox showing vs the playstation brand. with a userbase of over 100 million. alot of ps2 users went 360 once they heard 499/599. trust me i know a few.
next besides the first few months of 2006 the 360 has outsold by alot the ps3 month to month 2006 vs 2007. you ignore subpar 100k months?
Psychotext
Member
The PS3 could. I've never heard so many people stating how it was going to blow the 360 out of the water and that they were happy to wait for it rather than buy the xbox 1.5. Sony's marketing department is quite masterful prior to the release of their products.Raist said:
pr0cs
Member
You're not honestly comparing something like Mario that has a decade+ of history, fanbase and nostalgia attached to it against something like Eternal Sonata and Brue Dragon are you? Cos that would be silly.Zerachiel said:
You can bet your ass that if Mario was available on the 360 it would sell like fucking insane.