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[farnham]

Namco's problem with ToV on 360 is that it's an overall worldwide bomb. Selling 150K in Japan on the 360 is great for Microsoft, but pretty bad for Namco. The reason Namco didn't mind releasing most Tales games overseas is because they were a lock for at least 300-400K in Japan. ~220K worldwide has to be the worst performance for a console Tales game in quite some time.

well ToS II will do better.. (i hope)

 

[Mindlog]

Again, TOV outsold both PS2 installments of Tales so this argument in specific is pretty stupid.

I don't expect anyone to actually read the posts I make on the subject, though. I'm sure in another page someone else will post "LOL VESPERIA BOMBBA STINKA OMG PATHETIC PWNT" and we can start this cycle again.

Namco's problem with ToV on 360 is that it's an overall worldwide bomb. Selling 150K in Japan on the 360 is great for Microsoft, but pretty bad for Namco. The reason Namco didn't mind releasing most Tales games overseas is because they were a lock for at least 300-400K in Japan. ~220K worldwide has to be the worst performance for a console Tales game in quite some time.

I don't follow jarpugus too closely. Anyone have numbers?

 

[Stumpokapow]

I don't follow jarpugus too closely. Anyone have numbers?

tales of the world psp <50k
tales of phantasia gba <50k
tales of legendia ps2 ~75k
tales of the abyss ps2 ~75k
tales of symphia gcn >400k

 

[Mindlog]

Now I can understand the discussion better. Thank you kind stranger.

 

[charlequin]

Namco's problem with ToV on 360 is that it's an overall worldwide bomb.

Sure, but that's going to impact Namco's initial platform selection (which it seems to have done -- the Wii and the DS are the first systems to get "repeat" mothership titles in the series) rather than how they treat the series in the US. The fact remains that Vesperia's localized release is a success relative to its predecessors, the same way that its Japanese release is a failure compared to its predecessors.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Namco's problem with ToV on 360 is that it's an overall worldwide bomb. Selling 150K in Japan on the 360 is great for Microsoft, but pretty bad for Namco. The reason Namco didn't mind releasing most Tales games overseas is because they were a lock for at least 300-400K in Japan. ~220K worldwide has to be the worst performance for a console Tales game in quite some time.

GAF really needs to get behind the title and spread the love. This game is by far the best in the series and well worth owning if your a serious JRPG fan!

 

[HK-47]

GAF really needs to get behind the title and spread the love. This game is by far the best in the series and well worth owning if your a serious JRPG fan!

I know some Team Destiny fans that would disagree

 

[jax (old)]

tales of the world psp <50k
tales of phantasia gba <50k
tales of legendia ps2 ~75k
tales of the abyss ps2 ~75k
tales of symphia gcn >400k

I bought that GC version.. didn't really like it though. As for the Tales series bombing... it really isn't that significant a franchise, the art is SUPER .... japanesey/cutesy... to the point of being offputting. This is why it moves consoles in japane but will bomb in the US.

They need to wii/ps3 port the game if they want to make some money back.

 

[JJConrad]

I thought it was tracking ~20% higher than last year - if that trend continues, 20% over last year's Oct-Dec is a lot of additional consoles.

Not anymore.

For Year-to-date totals through August, 2008 was ahead of 2007 by about 2%. While 2007 was behind 2006 by about 9%

Year-To-Date totals though September now place 2008 about 6% (or 135k) behind 2007 YTD total. However, as Halo 3 did last year, this year's price drop was enough to boost 2008 YTD totals above that of 2006 (if only by about 1%).

For October, the 360 needs to increase its September weekly sales by about 30% (or 22k) or else it will fall further behind itself from 2007.... I don't see that happening. However, its weekly sales can drop by 15k and still not lose ground on 2006.


Realistic predictions for the 360 would have it selling somewhere between 3.95 million (2006) and 4.60 million (2007) for the year. That still leaves the system with room to sell 2.5 million over the next 3 months (which is 100k more than it did last year).

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I bought that GC version.. didn't really like it though. As for the Tales series bombing... it really isn't that significant a franchise, the art is SUPER .... japanesey/cutesy... to the point of being offputting. This is why it moves consoles in japane but will bomb in the US.

They need to wii/ps3 port the game if they want to make some money back.

The art in Vesperia is not the same as the deformed art in Symphonia.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Sony, why do you keep breaking my heart?

 

[Cerberus]

Anyone know the numbers for Yakuza 2? I hope it did good enough to get Sega to localize Yakuza 3 in the future.

 

[dammitmattt]

You and your fuzzy math. Never change, matt, never change.

It was lazy math and I was trying to say something positive about the Wii because the software sales are more impressive than most people give it credit for. Give a man a break!

 

[PuppetMaster]

They need to wii/ps3 port the game if they want to make some money back.

Ya. Basically it means ToV for PS3 confirmed.

 

[avatar299]

Wait. Are we talking about free cartoons? :lol You always bring awesome examples. If you were talking about the games based on the licenses...well, wow, popular license sells, news at eleven.

And yeah, Naruto on the 360 sold well, DMC4 too, etc. It's not that eastern art styles don't sell, is just that hey, kiddie looking stuff like Vesperia probably won't sell well with marketing, let alone without it.

Because the Tales of Franchise isn't popular at all in America. The game clearly doesn't have a fanbase to draw on.

Plenty of rpgs sell better than what Vesperia did in the states, commercials or not. To say the artstyle held it back is pathetic. It's the 360 userbase, as simple as that

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Because the Tales of Franchise isn't popular at all in America. The game clearly doesn't have a fanbase to draw on.

Plenty of rpgs sell better than what Vesperia did in the states, commercials or not. To say the artstyle held it back is pathetic. It's the 360 userbase, as simple as that

So how do you explain Lost Planet, DMC4, Lost Odyssey, and Soul Calibur 4? All Eastern games, all with debuts over 200k.

It's the same discrepancy you see with Lego Star Wars vs. The Force Unleashed - the more 'realistic' styled game sells better to the HD set. It's a fairly obvious pattern at this point.

It's a shame, because by all accounts Vesperia is a great game, but being unadvertised on television and having its distinct art style isn't going to do it any favors outside of Japan.

 

[dammitmattt]

Because the Tales of Franchise isn't popular at all in America. The game clearly doesn't have a fanbase to draw on.

Plenty of rpgs sell better than what Vesperia did in the states, commercials or not. To say the artstyle held it back is pathetic. It's the 360 userbase, as simple as that

You make two points above that show exactly why it isn't just the 360 userbase, which is a system where plenty of RPGs have sold decently in the states. Tales just isn't a big name over here, no matter what the system as shown countless times in this thread by the sales of the PS2 titles.

Let me guess...those lackluster sales were due to the PS2's userbase?

 

[markatisu]

You make two points above that show exactly why it isn't just the 360 userbase, which is a system where plenty of RPGs have sold decently in the states. Tales just isn't a big name over here, no matter what the system as shown countless times in this thread by the sales of the PS2 titles.

Let me guess...those lackluster sales were due to the PS2's userbase?

So we have disqualified the almost 500k Tales of Symphonia on GC?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I think some people are just going to have to accept the fact that Symphonia's success can not easily be reproduced.

Symphonia succeeded mainly because it was one of two well-received RPGs for GameCube.

I mean ever.

This is part of it.

 

[Aaron Strife]

So we have disqualified the almost 500k Tales of Symphonia on GC?

Symphonia succeeded mainly because it was one of two well-received RPGs for GameCube.

I mean ever.

 

[markatisu]

Symphonia succeeded mainly because it was one of two well-received RPGs for GameCube.

I mean ever.

So by that theory Tales of Symphonia 2 should sell a truckload since its in a similar situation :lol (and it did sell 200k by now in Japan)

 

[Aaron Strife]

So by that theory Tales of Symphonia 2 should sell a truckload since its in a similar situation :lol (and it did sell 200k by now in Japan)

Probably, although the original also had the benefit of being released in June, whereas DotNW falls in November, a more competitive month.

 

[Firestorm]

Saying Namco's zero marketing had no effect on sales seems a little dumb. I saw;

- 0 online ads
- 0 tv ads
- 1 magazine ad
- the viral marketing campaign (Tales Brigade) only opened 3 weeks before the game came out and there were 0 activities on promoting the game. Most Affinitive websites open months before a game come out and have activities centred around giving a game more exposure. The site is doing that for Symphonia: DotNW now.

I'm happy they localized it as it was my more anticipated single player game of the year, but I sort of don't know why they bothered. Did they blow the entire budget on voiced skits?

Symphonia succeeded mainly because it was one of two well-received RPGs for GameCube.

I mean ever.

And the 360 is just brimming with AAA PS2/PSX/SNES level RPGs. 360 is RPG king this gen when it comes to consoles, but come on now.

 

[jax (old)]

So how do you explain Lost Planet, DMC4, Lost Odyssey, and Soul Calibur 4? All Eastern games, all with debuts over 200k.

It's the same discrepancy you see with Lego Star Wars vs. The Force Unleashed - the more 'realistic' styled game sells better to the HD set. It's a fairly obvious pattern at this point.

It's a shame, because by all accounts Vesperia is a great game, but being unadvertised on television and having its distinct art style isn't going to do it any favors outside of Japan.

LOST PLANET = cool + hot visuals + demo

DMC4 = cool + pop franchise + 2 platforms

Lost Odyssey = UE3 + mistwalker hype

Soul Calibur = pop franchise + 2 platforms




Not all EASTERN games as you class them are the same. And of course the visuals don't help it.

 

[avatar299]

So how do you explain Lost Planet, DMC4, Lost Odyssey, and Soul Calibur 4? All Eastern games, all with debuts over 200k.

It's the same discrepancy you see with Lego Star Wars vs. The Force Unleashed - the more 'realistic' styled game sells better to the HD set. It's a fairly obvious pattern at this point.

It's a shame, because by all accounts Vesperia is a great game, but being unadvertised on television and having its distinct art style isn't going to do it any favors outside of Japan.

Becuase 3 of those games appeal to western tastes( Really lost planet) and LO is clearly aimed at the final fantasy set, which has overlap on all the platforms.

You make two points above that show exactly why it isn't just the 360 userbase, which is a system where plenty of RPGs have sold decently in the states. Tales just isn't a big name over here, no matter what the system as shown countless times in this thread by the sales of the PS2 titles.

Let me guess...those lackluster sales were due to the PS2's userbase?

Tales did 400k on the cube. RPGs on the DS do well all the time, among multiple demographics. Tales on PS2 perform weakly becuase it had legitimate competition from other games, and the userbase was on the Gamecube, not the PS2. If the 360 is attracting the jrpgers of last gen, there is no excuse for it doing so poorly here

The majority of jrpgs on the 360 have failed in the states(and yes Stump, i know Vesperia outsold Abyss, but that still doesn't make it a success.)

 

[eastside49er]

:lol

Classic.

 

[Zertez]

Im not sure I would call ToV a bomb yet. The game had zero marketing, or at least that I saw and Namco shipped few very copies. It was sold out at most GS, outside some gutted copies and I have yet to see it at places like CC, Walmart, Target and Best Buy. Not sure why the major chains did not pick the game up, but to me it seems like they had an initial target and they hit it. I ended up buying a copy off Amazon 2 weeks after release because I got tired of looking for the game. No idea why the game was in short supply, but for me if a company wants to sell a lot of copies of a game, they would have the game on the shelf and available for whoever wants it.

 

[Neo C.]

What pisses me off is that most of the meltdowners just sneak away after repeatedly insisting that Nintendo can't win. They never actually face the

Spoiler

Wii

Music.

Do you think guys would admit they were wrong? Really?

 

[icecream]

Probably, maybe. They are closely related anyway. The ES battle system is almost the same as VP2's, and that's not where the similarities end.

No they're not. Their only link is the sound engineer, not the people planning their games.

And I fail to see how the VP2 battle system is the same as Trusty Bell's. Unless by similar you mean, 'general turn-moving action combat system.'

 

[Hero]

If I recall correctly, didn't Nintendo help push Symphonia with ads and articles in Nintendo Power?

Wii's Tales game is probably going to do better than Vesperia.

 

[Shaheed79]

Wii to 360's price cut.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

They need to wii/ps3 port the game if they want to make some money back.

How is Eternal Sonata PS3 doing?

Considering that Sony demands extra content for games that got released on a other console before the PS3, I'm not so sure if a PS3 port would be worth the extra effort and time...

 

[BeeDog]

Wii to 360's price cut.

What movie is that from? Looks cool.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Because the Tales of Franchise isn't popular at all in America. The game clearly doesn't have a fanbase to draw on.

Plenty of rpgs sell better than what Vesperia did in the states, commercials or not. To say the artstyle held it back is pathetic. It's the 360 userbase, as simple as that

Do you even read your stuff?

Seriously, you say my argument is pathetic, look at yours, is laughable. Which is no surprise.

You say the Tales franchise doesn't have a fanbase to draw on in America, which just goes to strengthen my argument about the whole no marketing thing.

So congrats, you not only bring up arguments that actually help the ones i make, you manage to make yourself a bit dumb, insisting on the 360 userbase thing :lol

Keep it up.

So how do you explain Lost Planet, DMC4, Lost Odyssey, and Soul Calibur 4? All Eastern games, all with debuts over 200k.

It's the same discrepancy you see with Lego Star Wars vs. The Force Unleashed - the more 'realistic' styled game sells better to the HD set. It's a fairly obvious pattern at this point.

It's a shame, because by all accounts Vesperia is a great game, but being unadvertised on television and having its distinct art style isn't going to do it any favors outside of Japan.

Even worse, he goes on to defend the low performance of a BIG game like Star Wars on the Wii with the argument of "No exclusive marketing", but then he blames the 360 userbase for TOV....which is not a BIG game, and had no marketing.

IT's just awesome.

 

[Paracelsus]

How is Eternal Sonata PS3 doing?

38.923 vs 70.435.

And It's not the same quality as Vesperia. Fair enough it met that fate.

I'm seeing people snorting at the 65€ price tag of Bioshock, BIOSHOCK, figures Eternal Sonata.

Considering that Sony demands

Do you have any written proof for that? Or is that devs already know the game is half-doomed from the very moment they decide to port it, so they add more content to push people to pay full price for leftovers?

The truth is that Namco should have not underestimated the Japan. They did, they got owned. Easy as that. There was no need to rush the development, while now they'll need to rush a crappy port ala Symphonia to TRY (PS3 =/= PS2) to save the day. What's the use, that I don't know.

You can not turn the USA into the United States of Animerica just because you say so, that's the truth. PS2 owners, Xbox owners, Xbox 360 owners, the software ratio changes, not the tastes. <.<

So how do you explain Lost Planet, DMC4, Lost Odyssey, and Soul Calibur 4? All Eastern games, all with debuts over 200k.

Soul Calibur was a very well known franchise in the States, and it sold decently on the XBOX, stumpokapow said SCII sold basically the same on PS2 and XBOX, for example
.
Lost Odyssey was a Jrpg marketed as the Final Fantasy-killer, and it had a more mature look compared to Tales "no matter how old I am, I still look like a boy" of

Lost Planet was a Third Person SHOOTER

Devil May Cry 4 idem, was a pretty big franchise on the PS2. Considering it sold a bit more than DMC3 combining both platforms, it's safe to assume most of the former PS2 owners, now 360 owners, bought it.

 

[jax (old)]

Wii to 360's price cut.

where's that from? Did they kill the actor or break his back? Holycow

 

[Sadist]

They need to wii/ps3 port the game if they want to make some money back.

ToS DotNW will be there for the Wii and the new mainline Tales will also appear on Wii.

 

[Paracelsus]

ToS DotNW will be there for the Wii and the new mainline Tales will also appear on Wii.

Is the new mainline Tales still scheduled for Spring 09 as the rumor said?

 

[Sadist]

Is the new mainline Tales still scheduled for Spring 09 as the rumor said?

Don't know. Except for that blurb on the Tales festival last month nobody heard anything about it anymore.

 

[WrikaWrek]

where's that from? Did they kill the actor or break his back? Holycow

Flash Point.

Not a very good movie, but the final fight scene is amazing. And that's not from the final fight scene!

 

[Soule]

Is the new mainline Tales still scheduled for Spring 09 as the rumor said?

completely forgot about the new tales game for Wii. btw has ToS: DotNW already surpassed Vesperia's Japan+US sales with Japan alone or am I mistaken? I'm a bit hazy on the japanese ToS2 sales, I think I remember it was around or over 200k

 

[vanguardian1]

completely forgot about the new tales game for Wii. btw has ToS: DotNW already surpassed Vesperia's Japan+US sales with Japan alone or am I mistaken? I'm a bit hazy on the japanese ToS2 sales, I think I remember it was around or over 200k

I *may* be confusing titles, but IIRC TOS: DotNW was at 220-225k last we saw in Japan.

 

[dabra]

http://www.interactive.org/top-ten.php?id=32

September 2008
Overall Top 20 Video Game Titles

1. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (360)
2. Wii Fit (Wii)
3. Rock Band 2 (360)
4. Mario Kart (Wii)
5. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (PS3)
6. Mercenaries 2: World in Flames (360)
7. Wii Play w/ Remote (Wii)
8. Madden NFL 09* (360)
9. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (Wii)
10. Madden NFL 09* (PS2)
11. Madden NFL 09* (PS3)
12. Lego Batman (PS2)
13. Super Mario Sluggers (Wii)
14. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (PS2)
15. Kirby Superstar Ultra (NDS)
16. Mercenaries 2: World in Flames (PS3)
17. NHL 09 (360)
18. Lego Batman (Wii)
19. Lego Batman (360)
20. Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway (360)

Top 10 Wii Titles

1. Wii Fit
2. Mario Kart
3. Wii Play w/ Remote
4. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
5. Super Mario Sluggers
6. Lego Batman
7. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09
8. Madden NFL 09*
9. Super Smash Bros. Brawl
10. Rock Band

Top 10 Xbox 360 Titles

1. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
2. Rock Band 2
3. Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
4. Madden NFL 09*
5. Lego Batman
6. Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway*
7. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare*
8. Infinite Undiscovery
9. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09

Top 10 PS3 Titles

1. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
2. Madden NFL 09*
3. Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
4. Lego Batman
5. NHL 09
6. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare*
7. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09
8. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
9. Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway*
10. Silent Hill: Homecoming

Top 10 PS2 Titles

1. Madden NFL 09*
2. Lego Batman
3. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
4. Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
5. TNA Impact
6. God of War II
7. NCAA Football 09
8. Guitar Hero: Aerosmith*
9. WWE Smackdown vs. RAW 2008
10. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas

Top 10 Nintendo DS Titles

1. Kirby Superstar Ultra
2. New Super Mario Bros.
3. Lego Batman
4. Mario Kart
5. Guitar Hero: On Tour
6. Spore Creatures
7. Mario Party
8. Mario and Sonic: Olympic Games
9. Mystery Case File: Millionheir
10. Imagine: Babyz

*Includes Collector's, Limited, Bundles editions.

 

[yoopoo]

Wario Shake sold "little over 20k" - IGN Gamescoop.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Wario Shake sold "little over 20k" - IGN Gamescoop.

Ouch, sad to see At least Kirby did fairly well!

 

[RBH]

I'm happy to see NHL 09 in the Top 20.

Looks like TNA Impact bombed on the 360 and PS3, but performed decently on the PS2.

 

[markatisu]

Top 10 Wii Titles

1. Wii Fit
2. Mario Kart
3. Wii Play w/ Remote
4. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
5. Super Mario Sluggers
6. Lego Batman
7. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09
8. Madden NFL 09*
9. Super Smash Bros. Brawl
10. Rock Band

5 Nintendo Titles, 5 3rd Party Titles

But I thought only Nintendo software sold on Wii, oh yeah thats right its time to disqualify all the other games for one reason or another

Also interesting to see that Lego software once again sold more on Wii then on 360, that must be the new Tiger Woods for them (in reference to always outselling the 360 ver)

 

[RobertM]

Top 10 PS2 Titles

1. Madden NFL 09*
2. Lego Batman
3. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
4. Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
5. TNA Impact
6. God of War II
7. NCAA Football 09
8. Guitar Hero: Aerosmith*
9. WWE Smackdown vs. RAW 2008
10. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas


Yakuza 2... Yakuza 2? YAKUZZZZZZZZZZAAAAAA !

 

[unomas]

5 Nintendo Titles, 5 3rd Party Titles

But I thought only Nintendo software sold on Wii, oh yeah thats right its time to disqualify all the other games for one reason or another

Also interesting to see that Lego software once again sold more on Wii then on 360, that must be the new Tiger Woods for them (in reference to always outselling the 360 ver)

What has Madden sold on Wii now? And on 360 and PS3? It's not that the titles don't sell per say, it's that they take a backseat to Nintendo offerings most of the time. 4 of the top 5 are Ninty. Everyone said with the biggest userbase Wii would sell the most 3rd party software, but we can see that simply isn't the case. The titles that are selling the most these days ar 1st party offerings.

 

[Souldriver]

5 Nintendo Titles, 5 3rd Party Titles

But I thought only Nintendo software sold on Wii, oh yeah thats right its time to disqualify all the other games for one reason or another

Also interesting to see that Lego software once again sold more on Wii then on 360, that must be the new Tiger Woods for them (in reference to always outselling the 360 ver)

Star wars is being outsold a lot by the 360/PS3 versions, so it doesn't count.
Lego batman is kiddy, so it doesn't count.
Tiger Woods is driving on the advertising push the 08 version got last year, so it doesn't count.
Madden is Madden. It always sells. Also: casuals, so it doesn't count.
Rockband is a music game, and since music games sell well on Wii, they aren't real games anymore, so it doesn't count.