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Peter Moore: 'Console wars were healthy'
- Thread starter DryvBy
- Start date
HJuggernaut
Member
xbox360/ps3 best era of gaming. bring back the nexgenwars!
fart town usa
Member
Weird that the biggest losers are the PC crowd and they weren't even involved in the war, lol.
Everyone is suffering though.
Everyone is suffering though.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
Xbox would be in a better place if Peter Moore was still leading.
He had tons of good moments during the 360 era.
He had tons of good moments during the 360 era.
DryvBy
Member
Especially now. Hardware = storefronts which ===== 30% per digital game. Even disc, they make a huge cut and its a guaranteed dev kit + disc count. Having hardware is massive.
phant0m
Member
I agree. Industry is far too homogenized, from top to bottom.
XSX/PS5/PC are the same shit (hell, they’re all PCs)
Software is the same shit
Last gen was the same shit
The farther you go back, the more both the hardware and software diverged. SNES and Genesis both got great Castlevania games that were VASTLY different.
6th gen was most diverse. PS2 had the EE, Xbox was a PC (x86), GameCube was PPC and DreamCast ran Windows CE. They offered very different libraries and experiences. Multiplats existed for sure, but even those could had different features by platform.
Gaming used to be a lot more interesting.
Props to Nintendo for still just doing their own thing though, but I wish Switch 2 had a new “gimmick” / they continued the DS line somehow
XSX/PS5/PC are the same shit (hell, they’re all PCs)
Software is the same shit
Last gen was the same shit
The farther you go back, the more both the hardware and software diverged. SNES and Genesis both got great Castlevania games that were VASTLY different.
6th gen was most diverse. PS2 had the EE, Xbox was a PC (x86), GameCube was PPC and DreamCast ran Windows CE. They offered very different libraries and experiences. Multiplats existed for sure, but even those could had different features by platform.
Gaming used to be a lot more interesting.
Props to Nintendo for still just doing their own thing though, but I wish Switch 2 had a new “gimmick” / they continued the DS line somehow
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Sooner
Member
You realize Sony is, and has always been, a hardware company, right?
awwr999999
Member
Exactly, it's "Linux for PlayStation2" that scared Gates into giving Xbox a blank check and instructions to "Stop Sony". Instead of genuine competition we got MS adding an unnecessary PS2 clone to the US market as a means of absorbing game sales that would otherwise have gone to Sony. OTOH, the genuine console war that we have between Nintendo and Sony has been beneficial for gaming by pushing innovation.
awwr999999
Member
Competition's important but in terms of exclusives, quality and choices we'd all be better off if Xbox had never existed.
All of those Xbox exclusives would have ended up on PS2 making it even better than it is now, which is hard to imagine.
PS2 console sales would easily be in excess of 200 million.
OG Xbox games are more expensive to make than PS2 games.
Games made for one platform, one architecture and one controller will always be better than games made for a range of devices.
At least some of the game studios that MS gutted, shut down and closed might still be in business.
Without Xbox absorbing sales Nintendo would have made more money and invested more into R&D.
We'd likely have better innovation out of Nintendo now.
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simpatico
Member
Yes they drove innovation. Once they all went to x86 and basically become walled garden screenless gaming laptops, the die was cast. It's been downhill ever since. People used to have to program to the strengths of a machine because of overall hardware limitations. Now all they have to do is have the balls to use the heavier settings in UE5 and say they're going for a photorealistic look. Nanite piles of photorealistic rocks is the new piss filter. It was cool and novel the first few times, but then you realize the pile looks exactly the same in every UE5 game. Honestly you could have an intern just comb a map sprinkling them around in piles. I doubt the devs in nearly all of these cases are creating the asset. You can just rent them for $80 a year. https://www.fab.com/listings/d792667a-286a-4e7b-bb0f-a1d368ff5adb Way cheaper than hiring a guy
Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
Just watched the entire interview. Very insightful. He said a few things that were incorrect. He gave the 360 way more credit than it deserves. The sales weren't accurate and he doesn't touch the fact the Wii won the generation. He said the Switch started slow, which is totally not the case, it came out guns a blazing.
That aside, I really admire Peter Moore. He was great at Sega. A real warrior and good at everything he did..
That aside, I really admire Peter Moore. He was great at Sega. A real warrior and good at everything he did..
ZehDon
Member
Yeah, and that's the sad part for me. Say what you will about Kutaragi, or even the original DirectX Box team, but no one can deny they flipping loved this stuff. They pushed hard to put great tech in the box so developers had new tools to make better games because they absolutely wanted to make consoles.
I understand tech has homogenised around battle tested results, but when you consider Microsoft having the chance to put upscaling tech in the Series consoles but didn't, it seems there's still a lot of opportunity for platform hardware to take chances on pushing games forward with a vision of what could be... but it's just not the focus anymore. Microsoft doesn't have a vision at all, and Sony's vision appears to be just beefier x86 and tacking on whatever already made waves in the PC space. PC is now the land of fake frames and GPUs that stopped innovating two generations ago. It seems platforms have settled on a path forward: ever-more expensive versions of what we already have. And that makes me kinda sad.
Donald mac Ronald
Member
The war has taken its toll. I haven't seen this many refugees since Rwanda.
hououinkyouma00
Member
I'm a huge believer that gaming was better when exclusives were a big thing (inadvertently also when console wars was big). Now everything is exactly the same, and there isn't really any identity to any of the platforms.
You used to have a reason to play on every platform. PC and console games were very different, and between consoles you got different experiences.
You used to have a reason to play on every platform. PC and console games were very different, and between consoles you got different experiences.
I still think the greatest console of all time is the PlayStation 2, and I definitely have the most nostalgia for that generation but I agree. The 7th gen had everything: big single player AAA titles, AA was still well and alive, and you had the first big multiplayer titles like Halo/COD. While not as diverse as the previous gen there was also a reason to own every platform depending on taste.
David B
An Idiot
To me it's still console wars because Switch 2 is coming this year sometime. Xbox next console is coming next year, what is highly rumored right now anyway. And PS6 said to be 2027 or 2028. But seeing them release at different years now, it's not really a console war anymore. So yeah. I mean it's still kind of there, but not really since they are not coming out at the same time now. So it's like them, them, them. So while Microsoft has gone third party with there games, Sony and Nintendo haven't. Sony has kind of with PC releases also, so kind of 3rd party now. But Nintendo is like no one gets our games, we make our own consoles and games.
bitbydeath
Member
You could say that consoles are PCs, but PC’s are not consoles.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
There’s room for three consoles, Xbox was a success, 360 big time console, one was a failure and series x a success so they’re batting .725 an American console attracts people, it was smart for Microsoft to make a machine. Apple would be sleep walking, still trying to come up with games. Think about an apple console, you can’t.
David B
An Idiot
Yup. Because consoles can play games and play movies and have apps on it like youtube and X twitter and stuff. But PCs are not consoles because PCs can do more like web browsing, open PDF documents, open note files, run software from over a million different companies.
bitbydeath
Member
Also PC’s aren’t built for gaming.
David B
An Idiot
Than why are so many graphics card made from AMD and Nvidia? and there's over 1 million games made for Windows.
No, it's not.
The "console wars" were one of the reasons for the end of the Xbox.
The complacency and fanaticism of the brand's fans with a "holy war" mentality, where if the Xbox were held responsible for their incompetence, for the Xbox fanboys it would become a "victory for the enemy, Sony".
If Phil Spencer were held responsible, it would be a "victory for the enemy".
And the worst thing is that it talks so much about the parasocial relationship of Xbox fanboys. The worst thing is that I think it's a two-way street, the executives, like Phill, also listen to and "value" the opinions of the retarded Xbox fanboys.
It's like the king surrounded by sycophants, that's the Xbox.
The "console wars" were one of the reasons for the end of the Xbox.
The complacency and fanaticism of the brand's fans with a "holy war" mentality, where if the Xbox were held responsible for their incompetence, for the Xbox fanboys it would become a "victory for the enemy, Sony".
If Phil Spencer were held responsible, it would be a "victory for the enemy".
And the worst thing is that it talks so much about the parasocial relationship of Xbox fanboys. The worst thing is that I think it's a two-way street, the executives, like Phill, also listen to and "value" the opinions of the retarded Xbox fanboys.
It's like the king surrounded by sycophants, that's the Xbox.
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SportsFan581
Member
Moore was always entertaining to watch, he just had the bad luck of always being on the struggling team.
bitbydeath
Member
Graphic cards serve more purpose than games.
That’d be like thinking TV’s are built to play Spotify. Yes, it can do it, but it’s an extra and not the core focus.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
pc bros lost by getting all the games? in the era moore is talking about, PC never would've got tekken and Monster Hunter games for instance. Now even Sony ports to PC.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Exactly, but the average stupid gamer doesn’t realize this…
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
What you feel about the industry is the lack of passion from the current business leaders regarding games.. everything is now completely sanitised and the sense of wonder as almost gone.. maybe this is a case of generations but the excitement is not there anymore.. politics got into this industry like a plague (western developers) and the costs of making games so high that the creativity from top studios has plunged deep… most of games are just copy pasta of previous games and so on.. everything become so predictable and boring..
cireza
Member
You realize that hardware companies only want to trap you in their ecosystem, right ? Or do I need to make a list of all proprietary formats created by Sony ?
phant0m
Member
You’re right. What I really meant by “same shit” is all 3 are x86_64 architectures that run that kind of code and share common SDKs (eg FSR).
Older console gens (PS360 and earlier) had completely different system architectures.
David B
An Idiot
Well that does it for me. I'm done with gaming PC and Xbox. Only sticking to Apple and Sony now for gaming. Nintendo has well way behind on graphics so that's why I don't like them. But beyond the whole Gears of War thing, gaming PC and Xbox have no point for owning at all anymore. Every single game I own on Steam I already own on a PS console, other than just 3 are PC exclusives. 137 of my Xbox games I already own or can buy on PlayStation consoles. 19 of them are still Xbox exclusive, but of course that number will continue to go down as Microsoft is selling there games on other consoles now. and as I've said before on Neogaf over 10 times now, I own over 500 games across PS12345. Microsoft is like Sega with consoles and PCs. A big failure. I have had nothing but tons of issues on Windows 11 and my Xbox Series X. It never ended, it never stopped, problems just kept coming and coming forever and ever and ever, freezes, crashes, slow downs, black outs, blue screens of death, it's happened to me over 50 to 100 times now across Windows 11 and Xbox Series X combined. I'm done with Microsoft forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hououinkyouma00
Member
I'm looking forward to your "Should I buy a Gaming PC" and your "I'm contemplating buying a Series X" threads in the coming weeks.
fart town usa
Member
It was a joke on the state of unoptimized games and a lack of AAA benchmark PC exclusives. Wasn't directed at PC gamers, just all the nonsense they have to put up with these days while also paying out the ass for it.
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
Yeah, if not for the console war, Xbox probably would have maintained their no used games policy, and after a generation, Sony or Nintendo would could even followed suit.
The best thing consumers can hope from companies is that they go for each other throat. Or else, they will unite on fuck the consumer over.
The best thing consumers can hope from companies is that they go for each other throat. Or else, they will unite on fuck the consumer over.
hououinkyouma00
Member
Yes absolutely on that last part.
Competition breeds innovation. I’m a huge fan of Apple products for example. Apple needs competition and competition is part of the reason we have stuff like the M4 MacBook Air at $999 or the new Mac Mini at $599.
On the flipside I don’t think Apple sees or cares about competition in the phone space and that’s why we have the iPhone 16E at $599 while at the same time that Samsung will be putting out phones at $299/399/499 that blow the specs of the 16E out of the water.
David B
An Idiot
I can't even make threads anymore. So all I do is type comments about other things in other posts.
OuterLimits
Member
Yeah, I'm of the view that competition is often a positive. Look at the Space race during the Cold War as an example. Both Soviet Union and United States were doing amazing things in the solar system partly for mere bragging rights at being the first to accomplish a certain goal. The rapid overall technological advances on Earth were in large part a result of the Space race competition between the two. Granted, the two countries came far too close to nuking each other a couple times also.
The Soviet Union collapsing was a good thing but let's be honest that NASA kind of went to shit afterwards. Hell, American astronauts were having to bum rides from Russia between 2010 and 2020 to even get to the International Space station. Damn embarrassing. New Horizons to Pluto was pretty cool though.
dragonyeuw
Member
I think console wars are/were healthy in the sense of brands pushing each other to innovate which only benefits the consumer. There's never been anything healthy about people living vicariously through those brands, though.
Case in point, the 16 bit gen with Super Nintendo/Genesis. Two companies with distinct software strategies and marketing, even unique versions of the same IP (case in point Aladdin, Alien, Contra, Batman and Robin, and tons more), making for far more fascinating libraries that made both systems worth owning ( and I was fortunate to own both as a kid, so the whole 16 bit war thing went right over my head). Which comes back to the unhealthy part of it, people aligning with brands in such a way that led to petty fights and pointless fanboyism. You still see it today even though Microsoft is by no means competing with Sony like Nintendo and Sega were in the 90s.
Case in point, the 16 bit gen with Super Nintendo/Genesis. Two companies with distinct software strategies and marketing, even unique versions of the same IP (case in point Aladdin, Alien, Contra, Batman and Robin, and tons more), making for far more fascinating libraries that made both systems worth owning ( and I was fortunate to own both as a kid, so the whole 16 bit war thing went right over my head). Which comes back to the unhealthy part of it, people aligning with brands in such a way that led to petty fights and pointless fanboyism. You still see it today even though Microsoft is by no means competing with Sony like Nintendo and Sega were in the 90s.
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HJuggernaut
Member
and we had the best gaming press. 1UP/EGM, Gamespot (Gerstmann/Ryan Davies and the boys), vlogs Kotaku/Joystiq/Destructoid (pre-woke), IGN(Hilary/Clayman). Gaming podcasts were awesome. It all went to shits with the ps4 presentation and kotaku's article on why they were no men on stage this was the butterfly that created the shitstorm.