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[RoboFu]

So .. bad pc ports when you use FSR is the reasoning?


From DF .. the " tech experts " who never use multiple hardware setups for their pc performance takes.

I could point out that even most bad pc ports are only bad on launch day and quickly get fixed, but I want you guys to have your 15 mins of happiness so go on and frolic a little longer until nov when real comparisons come out.

 

[Gaiff]

Vick Bojji Zathalus

Don't forget guys, as much as we find the stutters in those games egregious, it seems that the likes of us are in the minority, and the majority of the player base doesn't give a fuck. Dead Space sits at 91% Positive Reviews on Steam and Silent Hill 2 at a whopping 95% with an Overwhelmingly Positive score. There are cases like Callisto Protocol or Jedi Survivor that were unacceptably bad and the reviews reflected that, but it seems that despite DF's complaints and our own, damn near everyone is satisfied with those ports. This is unfortunately what devs and publishers will look at that. Those DF videos did nothing to slow the sales of these games down. Sadly, most think that those ports are great. Ignorance is bliss I guess. I'm sure they're having way more fun than us not noticing or not caring about those stutters. It sucks, but what can you do?

 

[Sentenza]

Look, it's the rabid Playstation fans being delusional once again.

 

[KyoZz]

Your the one whose always coming into these ps5 pro/pc threads and getting all bothered

What, you are tracking me? You should do a better job because what you are saying is factually wrong. You can look at my history.
As I said earlier I like to play games no matter where they're coming from.

And this is coming from someone with an Xbox written with Sega style avatar. Funny.

 

[clarky]

Not the best place to play Starfield or Hellblade 2 now is it?

 

[Bojji]

Vick Bojji Zathalus

Don't forget guys, as much as we find the stutters in those games egregious, it seems that the likes of us are in the minority, and the majority of the player base doesn't give a fuck. Dead Space sits at 91% Positive Reviews on Steam and Silent Hill 2 at a whopping 95% with an Overwhelmingly Positive score. There are cases like Callisto Protocol or Jedi Survivor that were unacceptably bad and the reviews reflected that, but it seems that despite DF's complaints and our own, damn near everyone is satisfied with those ports. This is unfortunately what devs and publishers will look at that. Those DF videos did nothing to slow the sales of these games down. Sadly, most think that those ports are great. Ignorance is bliss I guess. I'm sure they're having way more fun than us not noticing or not caring about those stutters. It sucks, but what can you do?

Based on what people have said about Dead Space PC even here on gaf i think many people just don't see stutters. I can see that with average console games that didn't know what 60fps was before this gen (and many couldn't tell the difference between 30 and 60) but PC games should know better.

But i guess average pc gamer is almost as clueless as average console gamer when it comes to this. Welp... thanks to that we will still have games that stutter.

Even based on Metaphor shit performance on PS5, no one cares and game got 94MC score.

 

[//DEVIL//]

I get your point, but not the angle. If he makes you that angry, he’s either speaking truth or ruffling feathers.

I don’t take his posts as an attack on PC gamers, rather a defense of PlayStation from some PC gamers who have to constantly remind people how much better their platform is or their own PC’s specs are. I’m running a monster and don’t have to do that, for example.

He is neither speaking the truth nor ruffling feathers. that post he made has one intention only. to pretend that the "PS5 Pro is so powerful it's pissing PC class people". That was an attack that was not warranted and not based on any facts. a shitty CPU and a mid-range GPU. To him, that is super powerful its going to piss off PC gamers so he wanted to post that without a single brain functionality.

PC-bragging idiots are just that. idiots. I am also running a 4090 and 7800x3d. of course, it's probably more powerful than a PS6 at this point ( kidding, who knows,, maybe )

Also, there is no defending this. Consoles are cheap gaming alternatives for people who are not into PC gaming or can't afford it or die-hard Playstation / Nintendo / Xbox fans and want the exclusives from day one without waiting. absolutely perfectly fine and nothing wrong with that. I own 2 PS5s, a Switch, and a PC. Not gonna compare a 500 PS5 console to a PC that is 6x the cost. of course, it's gonna destroy it. But I won't come to a gaming forum and pretend a stupid mid-range system like the Pro is pissing off PC gamers. that would be retarded. and thats exactly what this idiot is doing for a while now. Enough of this garbage.

 

[jm89]

What, you are tracking me? You should do a better job because what you are saying is factually wrong. You can look at my history.
As I said earlier I like to play games no matter where they're coming from.

And this is coming from someone with an Xbox written with Sega style avatar. Funny.

Nobody needs to track you, your insecure stank is all over these threads.

 

[KyoZz]

Nobody needs to track you, your insecure stank is all over these threads.

Ah so you are just assuming anything to fit your opinion. Got it. You literally have proof that I'm not trolling and that I loves PS games just as much as I love Xbox games and PC exclusives too.

Next time don't make me loose time and stay salty in your corner.

 

[Gaiff]

But i guess average pc games is almost as clueless as average console gamer when it comes to this. Welp... thanks to that we will still have games that stutter.

Yes, yes, they are. Have friends who game exclusively on PC and they’re not any more knowledgeable than those who game on consoles.

Recent example 1: One of them has had a 165Hz monitor for 6 months and it had been running at 60Hz all this time. It’s not rare that they’re 60Hz out of the box. He had no clue it went that high. Needless to say, that discovery was transformative.

Recent example 2: Another one complained about performance issue. It turns out he was installing games like Spider-Man and Wukong on his HDD. Got himself a 1TB SSD and his issues are gone. He managed to finish Wukong playing on a fucking HDD and an RTX 3060. Still calls it one of his favorite games ever.

On the flip side, we all played PS1/N64 games at sub 30fps. I remember Perfect Dark running at 10fps with 4 players. Didn’t stop me from having a blast and it seems like most people are still like this. That’s a good thing I suppose.

 

[jm89]

Ah so you are just assuming anything to fit your opinion. Got it. You literally have proof that I'm not trolling and that I loves PS games just as much as I love Xbox games and PC exclusives too.

Next time don't make me loose time and stay salty in your corner.

I don't need to assume anything when your insecurity is obvious to anyone.

Feel free to take your ass out of these threads and go somewhere someone can coddle you when a ps5 pro thread pops up.

 

[Hohenheim]

Its already like that now with game of the generation Elden Ring having better performance on PS5.

Elden Ring is amazing, and yeah - maybe game of the generation.
But it runs quite poorly on PS5 compared to a decent PC.
Even ps4 version runs better than ps5 version.

 

[Bojji]

Yes, yes, they are. Have friends who game exclusively on PC and they’re not any more knowledgeable than those who game on consoles.

Recent example 1: One of them has had a 165Hz monitor for 6 months and it had been running at 60Hz all this time. It’s not rare that they’re 60Hz out of the box. He had no clue it went that high. Needless to say, that discovery was transformative.

Recent example 2: Another one complained about performance issue. It turns out he was installing games like Spider-Man and Wukong on his HDD. Got himself a 1TB SSD and his issues are gone. He managed to finish Wukong playing on a fucking HDD and an RTX 3060. Still calls it one of his favorite games ever.

On the flip side, we all played PS1/N64 games at sub 30fps. I remember Perfect Dark running at 10fps with 4 players. Didn’t stop me from having a blast and it seems like most people are still like this. That’s a good thing I suppose.

I miss being ignorant like this to performance, last time I was like this was in PS2 days (but even then I saw framerate drops in vamp fight in MGS2!!!)...

Most of my friends are clueless like this as well (PC gamers). I think even on gaf "tech literate people" are like small %.

 

[KyoZz]

I don't need to assume anything when your insecurity is obvious to anyone.

Feel free to take your ass out of these threads and go somewhere someone can coddle you when a ps5 pro thread pops up.

Ok I see it's a pretty sensitive subject for you so yeah, let's leave it here.

Have a nice day!

 

[XXL]

 

[Elios83]

Ahaha too bad for him

The amount of insecurity we can see in this thread is also off scale.
Personally I think the most important aspect is the value the Pro is bringing and how it can blur the line between consoles and high end PCs while still being far more affordable than the latter.
The rest is again just system wars, salt and a lot of insecurity.

 

[DryvBy]

The most frequent source of stutters is shader compilation. The shaders aren’t caught in the caching process on PC and are compiled in real time instead, this results in a slight hitch. This happens only once, but will likely happen again if the GPU drivers are updated or the GPU is changed.

The stutters on PC are seldom due to the hardware. Even having a beast of a rig with top-tier components won’t make them go away.

That used to be the big problem. I assume my disgustingly old fat boy drives was my stutter.

I don't have this issue on my PS5 with FF16 but on PC, it's stutters almost every transition. Just a little bit enough where I'm annoyed.

 

[Topher]

Yeah all the green rats appear to have swam to another sinking ship

PC ain't sinking my man

 

[GHG]

PC ain't sinking my man

It is a stinking ship now though with all those rats on board.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Suddenly we don't want to talk about framerate anymore...

Image quality without framerate is meaningless... and for a channel that has obsessed with it for so long to now all of a sudden slow roll the information on framerate is super suspect.

Should be quite easily to do a frame chart of Ratchet and Clank running Alex's custom PS5 settings on a 4070 and showing us how many frames its getting.

The problem? I don't think you're going to see significantly higher frames and I think he knows that. If the games have near identical visuals, but the 4070 can only deliver 5-10 more fps, how do you justify the difference in price in a 4070 PC that's going to cost you at least an extra 300 dollars?

His whole "PS5 Pro is expensive" kind of goes out the window.

 

[LazyParrot]

If a game has a bad PC port I'll just play something else lol.

 

[Topher]

It is a stinking ship now though with all those rats on board.

 

[Calverz]

Will the PS5 Pro play Silent Hill 2 remake at 4k 100fps with DLSS equivalent of quality super sampling, and no traversal stutter?
If so then they are right.
If not, they are talking shite.

 

[ahtlas7]

Selling my useless pc now. Who wants to start the bidding?!

 

[Garibaldi]

I respectfully disagree. Stuttergate is totally blown out of proportion. My PC runs everything I throw at it miles better than a PS5 or the PS5 Pro will.

 

[SpokkX]

This is actually a use case that interests me

I expect sony first party to run well (60fps) even on ps5.. my current pc is way faster than ps5 pro (and i will upgrade to a 5080 next year - current cpu is 3 times faster already)

… but there are pc ports that just suck. Ue5 games especially have awful stuttering (shader compilr often ) even if they have good framerates

So in those cases ps5 pro would be the best platform. Silent hill 2 for example seems like a candidate.

This could make me upgrade my ps5 actually

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Will the PS5 Pro play Silent Hill 2 remake at 4k 100fps with DLSS equivalent of quality super sampling, and no traversal stutter?
If so then they are right.
If not, they are talking shite.

Love how we're randomly moving the goalposts...

The fear is real

 

[Calverz]

Love how we're randomly moving the goalposts...

The fear is real

Goalposts? What goalposts? Its pretty straightforward. If it can match pc and remove stutter, then its the best way to play silent hill 2 remake.

 

[rodrigolfp]

how do you justify the difference in price in a 4070 PC that's going to cost you at least an extra 300 dollars?

Same way as always. 4070 can play gazillions of games better including, ironically, Bloodborne and PS3 games,

Will the PS5 Pro play Silent Hill 2 remake at 4k 100fps with DLSS equivalent of quality super sampling, and no traversal stutter?
If so then they are right.
If not, they are talking shite.

No plus still makes players to swallow potato dual stick gunplay.

 

[Killer8]

Your framing was definitely a hardware comparison, even if you want to now distance yourself from it.

Regardless, there is no nullification of PC hardware advantages and I certainly have a better experience on that platform. It’s just an exciting prospect to have a console that can be at the ready should the need arrive and that’s where the Pro will shine.

Do you just selectively read parts of posts and decide what the framing was? Is this some sort of death of the author shit i'm being subjected to?

The very first post I made said at the end that "developers should be ashamed" - now why would I mention that developers should be ashamed if my framing was just a 1:1 hardware comparison?

It seems pretty logical that mentioning that afterwards would suggest they bear the responsibility, no?

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Do you just selectively read parts of posts and decide what the framing was? Is this some sort of death of the author shit i'm being subjected to?

The very first post I made said at the end that "developers should be ashamed" - now why would I mention that developers should be ashamed if my framing was just a 1:1 hardware comparison?

It seems pretty logical that mentioning that afterwards would suggest they bear the responsibility, no?

Your initial post was three sentences long. Not much to "miss" ther. "Framing" meant the jist of you words, context. Not a selective framing.

In any event, your subsequent replies already better explained what you meant and I get it (mostly). Why you feel the need to continue to defend yourself is anyone's guess. It's explained. You're good.

 

[Zathalus]

Suddenly we don't want to talk about framerate anymore...

Image quality without framerate is meaningless... and for a channel that has obsessed with it for so long to now all of a sudden slow roll the information on framerate is super suspect.

Should be quite easily to do a frame chart of Ratchet and Clank running Alex's custom PS5 settings on a 4070 and showing us how many frames its getting.

The problem? I don't think you're going to see significantly higher frames and I think he knows that. If the games have near identical visuals, but the 4070 can only deliver 5-10 more fps, how do you justify the difference in price in a 4070 PC that's going to cost you at least an extra 300 dollars?

His whole "PS5 Pro is expensive" kind of goes out the window.

The same way you always justify PC gaming? PC has never been about being the best in price to performance, that hasn’t changed.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The same way you always justify PC gaming? PC has never been about being the best in price to performance, that hasn’t changed.

Maybe not, but this would be a wildly disproportionate price to performance. Maybe the most we've ever seen in gaming.

At a time when performance HAS meant so much to PC gaming and the prices continue to increase exponentially, I think this is a discussion starter for sure and may be even more so in 4 years when the PS6 comes out.

 

[Bojji]

Suddenly we don't want to talk about framerate anymore...

Image quality without framerate is meaningless... and for a channel that has obsessed with it for so long to now all of a sudden slow roll the information on framerate is super suspect.

Should be quite easily to do a frame chart of Ratchet and Clank running Alex's custom PS5 settings on a 4070 and showing us how many frames its getting.

The problem? I don't think you're going to see significantly higher frames and I think he knows that. If the games have near identical visuals, but the 4070 can only deliver 5-10 more fps, how do you justify the difference in price in a 4070 PC that's going to cost you at least an extra 300 dollars?

His whole "PS5 Pro is expensive" kind of goes out the window.

How can you can compare framerate when PS5 Pro version (seems) 60fps locked and uses dynamic resolution that works different than dynamic resolution on PC. If it was locked resolution it would be much easier to compare.

Maybe not, but this would be a wildly disproportionate price to performance. Maybe the most we've ever seen in gaming.

At a time when performance HAS meant so much to PC gaming and the prices continue to increase exponentially, I think this is a discussion starter for sure and may be even more so in 4 years when the PS6 comes out.

You can play ratchet in 120fps+ on PC so nothing changed when it comes to performance advantage of PC.

 

[Zathalus]

Maybe not, but this would be a wildly disproportionate price to performance. Maybe the most we've ever seen in gaming.

At a time when performance HAS meant so much to PC gaming and the prices continue to increase exponentially, I think this is a discussion starter for sure and may be even more so in 4 years when the PS6 comes out.

Not really? When the PS5 launched the best card to compare was the 2070 Super and that was a 1000 dollar PC vs the $400 PS5. When the PS4 Pro launched the best card to compare was the 1060. That was a $700 PC vs the $400 Pro. The 8800 XT from AMD and 5060 are launching next year so Pro performance can likely be had for $800-$850.

Not that I think it matters in the end, console and PC are separate things with not that much overlap between the two.

 

[DeepEnigma]

As far as consoles are concerned the xss is exactly what’s they should represent: affordable gaming.

Then you'd never have a high end game on the PC. Ever. Funny you ignore my quote from CDPR tho. The once PC pariah.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

How can you can compare framerate when PS5 Pro version (seems) 60fps locked and uses dynamic resolution that works different than dynamic resolution on PC. If it was locked resolution it would be much easier to compare.

Again, I didn't choose this game to compare. Alex did.

You can play ratchet in 120fps+ on PC so nothing changed when it comes to performance advantage of PC.

At what settings and what video card? All of these are important parts of the conversation. No one is buying the 4090.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Not the best place to play Starfield or Hellblade 2 now is it?

Bangers!

 

[clarky]

Bangers!

Both bad PC ports, both multiplatform.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Not really? When the PS5 launched the best card to compare was the 2070 Super and that was a 1000 dollar PC vs the $400 PS5. When the PS4 Pro launched the best card to compare was the 1060. That was a $700 PC vs the $400 Pro. The 8800 XT from AMD and 5060 are launching next year so Pro performance can likely be had for $800-$850.

Not that I think it matters in the end, console and PC are separate things with not that much overlap between the two.

Look at what you're doing. You told on yourself in your own argument.

Speculation about future tech to ascertain current value... The PS5 Pro is obviously putting your logic in a bind.

It'll be very interesting to see how the PS5 Pro holds up to a 4070 because the gap in price is massive if the gap in performance isn't there, I'll be correct.

 

[Killer8]

Your initial post was three sentences long. Not much to "miss" ther. "Framing" meant the jist of you words, context. Not a selective framing.

In any event, your subsequent replies already better explained what you meant and I get it (mostly). Why you feel the need to continue to defend yourself is anyone's guess. It's explained. You're good.

Look, we're basically on the same page that it's the developers that are the issue. I thought my original post was pretty clear on that and three sentences was enough to get the point across, but I guess not. If people start saying i'm contradicting myself or that I meant my posts in a certain way then i'm gonna reply to that. We're cool.

I wasn't dunking on PC for the sake of it. I have a PC with a 4070 myself and the fact I keep having to buy games on console to get a less compromised experience (*to me) because developers can't handle things like PSO caching or proper frame pacing is just sad.

My posts about PC can be described as a mourning father who has lost his child.

 

[rodrigolfp]

a less compromised experience (*to me) because developers can't handle things like PSO caching or proper frame pacing is just sad.

Yeah. Like Bloodborne or DD2...

 

[Zathalus]

Look at what you're doing. You told on yourself in your own argument.

Speculation about future tech to ascertain current value... The PS5 Pro is obviously putting your logic in a bind.

It'll be very interesting to see how the PS5 Pro holds up to a 4070 because the gap in price is massive if the gap in performance isn't there, I'll be correct.

What on earth are you about? The price gap between the PS5 digital and a 2070 Super PC back in 2020 was way, way larger than the price gap between a 4070 PC and a PS5 Pro now. The 2070 had advantages in terms of raytracing and upscaling, but was slower in rasterisation, while the 4070 looses the upscaling advantage but still retains the ray tracing lead and also leads in rasterisation, plus the VRAM situation is more favourable for the 4070.

So if a $400 PS5 vs a $1000 2070 Super PC didn’t do much for the justification question, then I doubt a $700 Pro vs a $1000 4070 PC would. The gap is also going to change in as little as 3/4 months when the new Nvidia cards launch.

The Pro isn’t some price/performance king that hasn’t been matched before, quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

What on earth are you about? The price gap between the PS5 digital and a 2070 Super PC back in 2020 was way, way larger than the price gap between a 4070 PC and a PS5 Pro now. The 2070 had advantages in terms of raytracing and upscaling, but was slower in rasterisation, while the 4070 looses the upscaling advantage but still retains the ray tracing lead and also leads in rasterisation, plus the VRAM situation is more favourable for the 4070.

So if a $400 PS5 vs a $1000 2070 Super PC didn’t do much for the justification question, then I doubt a $700 Pro vs a $1000 4070 PC would. The gap is also going to change in as little as 3/4 months when the new Nvidia cards launch.

The Pro isn’t some price/performance king that hasn’t been matched before, quite the opposite in fact.

Find me the 1000 dollar 4070 PC.

 

[Syphon Filter]

sony peasants coping as usual, many games have performance issues on ps5. with pc even if it has bad performance at some point will be be brute forced with newer gpu's,etc

 

[Bojji]

Again, I didn't choose this game to compare. Alex did.



At what settings and what video card? All of these are important parts of the conversation. No one is buying the 4090.

4k using DLSS Balance (~1200p), high settings (with VH textures) and RT reflections - probably close to performance setting Pro is using:

That's on 4070 ti super.

 

[simpatico]

Do we have any raw capture data from a Pro yet or are still analyzing youtube videos and tweets?

 

[Bojji]

Find me the 1000 dollar 4070 PC.

 

[Zathalus]

Find me the 1000 dollar 4070 PC.

Sure

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fK4LVW

A 2070 Super build would have looked similar, just with a 1TB drive and a 3600 processor or even a Zen 1 processor.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

No keyboard/mouse
No gamepad
No operating system
Unless that case comes with built in cooling... no cooling
Interesting choice to go with DDR4 memory.
Pcie3 SSD... instead of pcie4...

Keep trying buddy