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[gooner4life_uk]

Microsoft want Xbox to fail at this point, too many people bought up subsidised Gamepass subscriptions stacking them for years and years, Microsoft are earning the equivalent of each one of these people buying a game on average once every 2.5 years, Microsoft wish Xbox could go away yesterday and they can just concentrate on the PC market and PlayStation for game sales, they will get a nice boost when the Switch 2 is out and they can sell Call of Duty on there too.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I can see why they’re winding down Xbox.

The consoles are sold at a loss and at mid generation they’re only at about 29m units sold.

That small user base is barely buying games so the business isn’t sustainable.

Sega went through this with the Saturn, by early 1997 they had to reduce the amount of consoles they sold.

Unlike Sega they’re not going to ditch their platform immediately, but it’s fairly clear now that the Xbox Series S/X playform isn’t going to grow and Microsoft don’t really have much intention in growing it.

 

[mckmas8808]

By the end of this year they’ll be at…

PS5 = 70m
XBS = 30m

…approximately

I struggle to see Xbox shifting more than 5 million next year though.

By the end of the gen I expect…

PS5 = 115m
XBS = 40-45m (depending on how close release dates are for MS games on XBS and PS5)

I think the PS5 can sell more than the PS4, since a new GTA hasn't come out yet. Plus they still haven't cut the price of the PS5 in 4 years.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I think the PS5 can sell more than the PS4, since a new GTA hasn't come out yet. Plus they still haven't cut the price of the PS5 in 4 years.

Well I guess a proportion of Xbox owners may switch to PS5 or PS5 Pro if Xbox really goes to shit.

And prospective Xbox owners will more likely get a PS5 instead of Xbox if we see all Microsoft games come to the system.

Then there’s the PS5 Pro factor, with no rival in sight.

Yes, considering that I think they’ll certainly exceed the PS4’s lifetime sales (whatever that figure is, they’re still selling even now).

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I can see why they’re winding down Xbox.

The consoles are sold at a loss and at mid generation they’re only at about 29m units sold.

That small user base is barely buying games so the business isn’t sustainable.

Sega went through this with the Saturn, by early 1997 they had to reduce the amount of consoles they sold.

Unlike Sega they’re not going to ditch their platform immediately, but it’s fairly clear now that the Xbox Series S/X playform isn’t going to grow and Microsoft don’t really have much intention in growing it.

They should look within and ask themselves why they have such a small user base .

People disagree and that’s cool, I still think, if the division and Microsoft itself got its act together then Xbox could and I think should, be a brilliant platform in the console space.

If they intend to do another generation with the next PlayStation the whole set up needs a reboot and new people leading it.

It’s not acceptable a man being paid millions is saying things “we are learning “ after two decades in the industry. It’s taking the piss and not acceptable. The product and content is not speaking for themselves in a positive manner, enough is enough.

 

[Crunchbox]

Yeah, but I still doubt it will surpass 20 million units. But PS5 probably will end up selling more than PS4.

With gta 6 coming it is inevitable.

 

[PixelatedBeast]

The Pro isn't selling 20million at that price point.

Why not? The ps5 pro will be such a major upgrade for ps4 owners that by the time the ps6 releases, they'll be able to play the same games due to the PSSR and bigger GPU.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

They should look within and ask themselves why they have such a small user base .

People disagree and that’s cool, I still think, if the division and Microsoft itself got its act together then Xbox could and I think should, be a brilliant platform in the console space.

If they intend to do another generation with the next PlayStation the whole set up needs a reboot and new people leading it.

It’s not acceptable a man being paid millions is saying things “we are learning “ after two decades in the industry. It’s taking the piss and not acceptable. The product and content is not speaking for themselves in a positive manner, enough is enough.

- RROD
- Kinect focus
- replacing Bungie with 343i
- Xbone reveal TV TV TV
- E3 2013 DRM
- Play Anywhere (PC day one)
- Porting games to PlayStation

At this point the Xbox brand is obviously not viewed positively by most gamers and, despite their efforts, people becoming more attached to ecosystems due to digital libraries makes it an almost impossible feat now…

…and Microsoft know it.

 

[clarky]

Why not? The ps5 pro will be such a major upgrade for ps4 owners that by the time the ps6 releases, they'll be able to play the same games due to the PSSR and bigger GPU.

The PS4 pro was cheaper, had a better hook(4k gaming) and arguably had a better library to take advantage of what i consider was a bigger upgrade at the time. Also most sony titles are already upgraded, on PC, this time around.

Most of the folks still on a 4 are not spending £700 to upgrade, they'll just buy the 5 if they waited thos long most are not bothered about a res bump and frame rate boost

The 4 pro didn't sell 20 million, i can't see this besting it to be honest. Maybe im wrong. Well see.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The PS4 pro was cheaper, had a better hook(4k gaming) and arguably had a better library to take advantage of what i consider was a bigger upgrade at the time. Also most sony titles are already upgraded, on PC, this time around.

Most of the folks still on a 4 are not spending £700 to upgrade, they'll just buy the 5 if they waited thos long most are not bothered about a res bump and frame rate boost

The 4 pro didn't sell 20 million, i can't see this besting it to be honest. Maybe im wrong. Well see.

Doesn’t have a One X to compete with though

 

[clarky]

Doesn’t have a One X to compete with though

Thats why its £699.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Thats why its £699.

No, because Xbox Series X 2TB is $599 and base PS5 is $499

 

[clarky]

No, because Xbox Series X 2TB is $599 and base PS5 is $499

Joking mate. Just like that Series X price lol.

Edit: Also base PS5 (digital) is just £339 ( including tax) at present here in the UK, less than half the price of the pro. I almost bought the Pro yesterday (sucker for new tech) but i couldn't justify to myself. Maybe when Ghosts 2 and DS2 come out.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Joking mate. Just like that Series X price lol.

I still think this sells less than PS4 pro…but mainly because I think ps5 overall sells less than ps4, due to lack of ability to cost reduce

But I don’t think the difference will be that large or that it means ps5 or ps5 pro is a failure

 

[clarky]

I still think this sells less than PS4 pro…but mainly because I think ps5 overall sells less than ps4, due to lack of ability to cost reduce

But I don’t think the difference will be that large or that it means ps5 or ps5 pro is a failure

Yeah i think broadly the same ratio as 4/4 pro. Us nerds don't usually give a shit about the cost and thats who mostly buys these things.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I think the PS5 can sell more than the PS4, since a new GTA hasn't come out yet. Plus they still haven't cut the price of the PS5 in 4 years.

So you think this is still possible? I feel like it's getting harder as time passes. I'm interested to see how sonys sales are after this peak period because it looks like they are starting to slip behind ps4 now and they may struggle to pull it back.

I know a few people on here were saying ps5 pro will give a nice boost to numbers this year, so it will be interesting to see if it does give ps5 sales the boost they are expecting. I think the price has reduced the chances of that tbh.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The Pro isn't selling 20million at that price point.

Entire PS5 family will get a price drop by the end of 2026.

 

[clarky]

Entire PS5 family will get a price drop by the end of 2026.

I'd hope so that's 2 years away!

What else you got for us Nostradamus?

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Entire PS5 family will get a price drop by the end of 2026.

Makes sense why they’d hold off until at least late 2025

- Potential bounce from GTA6 release
- Potential bounce from Xbox console collapse


Wait to see if these increase sales, if they don’t or the bump wears off, then drop the price

 

[Astray]

One would think they would get lucky and release a banger by this point, but they just keep rolling snake eyes on software and it is hard to explain.

They released a banger in HiFi Rush and then tried closing the studio lmfao.

They have some real geniuses running that division for sure.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'd hope so that's 2 years away!

What else you got for us Nostradamus?

I mean it's about the fundamentals.

• Sony is unlikely to drop the price ahead of GTA6's release
• Sony will evaluate unit sales once GTA6 releases, particularly when sales slow down
• I imagine that only after sales significantly slow down will Sony adjust the price of the consoles

We don't know when GTA6 is going to release outside of its current release schedule of 2025.

If we assume GTA6 will be out for the holidays, the latest it would release in November 2025, but generally they've always released GTA6 well ahead of the holidays September/October time frame.

If this is the case, I would expect sales to start to diminish for the PS5 family by Q2 2026 and we should see a price drop either by the end of Q2 or early Q3.

 

[clarky]

They released a banger in HiFi Rush and then tried closing the studio lmfao.

They have some real geniuses running that division for sure.

HIFi rush was good for what it was but they need a couple of 10/10's with mainstream appeal.

They aint getting anywhere close any time soon with their current strategy

 

[Brucey]

I still think this sells less than PS4 pro…but mainly because I think ps5 overall sells less than ps4, due to lack of ability to cost reduce

But I don’t think the difference will be that large or that it means ps5 or ps5 pro is a failure

I think we'll see a strong tail for the PS5 generation. We are at 60 million at 4 years with minimum price of entry being $400 and now more recently $450. I'm going to say 140 million is possible.

- Large number of PS4 owners still getting cross gen games, few exclusive titles to push them over to PS5.

- No 18 month pre announcement of an Xbox one x to potentially dampen demand for the PS5 pro, like the previous generation.

- Potentially no future Xbox console generation to provide competition and "need" for a ps6. Devs can just target PS5/PC without the albatross of the series s hardware spec to include.

 

[Astray]

HIFi rush was good for what it was but they need a couple of 10/10's with mainstream appeal.

They aint getting anywhere close any time soon with their current strategy

It was a start tho.

A smart exec would give the studio more resources and maybe push them towards something bigger with more mass appeal.

Matt Booty closes the studio down. Clearly is not a smart exec.

 

[clarky]

I think we'll see a strong tail for the PS5 generation. We are at 60 million at 4 years with minimum price of entry being $400 and now more recently $450. I'm going to say 140 million is possible.

- Large number of PS4 owners still getting cross gen games, few exclusive titles to push them over to PS5.

- No 18 month pre announcement of an Xbox one x to potentially dampen demand for the PS5 pro, like the previous generation.

- Potentially no future Xbox console generation to provide competition and "need" for a ps6. Devs can just target PS5/PC without the albatross of the series s hardware spec to include.

No way it sells more than double its current total in the second half of its lifespan. What are you smoking?

Has any console ever done that?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Makes sense why they’d hold off until at least late 2025

- Potential bounce from GTA6 release
- Potential bounce from Xbox console collapse


Wait to see if these increase sales, if they don’t or the bump wears off, then drop the price

Sports games are also supposed to be current gen exclusive next year. You can already see they didn't make CF25 on previous gen. 2026 is another big year, especially in Europe with the world cup. People are going to want to have EA FC available.

Cross-play is also limited to generation too, so I think the tide is turning there.

Eventually, Fortnite will drop support for PS4 and X1 and Switch. You already can't cross play Switch/Mobile with console and PC players. The same will happen to PS4 and X1 and eventually support will be dropped entirely.

This year's COD is probably the last to hit the previous gen as well.

All of this will drive console sales.

So Sony has to make a decision as to whether they wait out the storm or prime the pump to get units up. They forecasted 18 million units this year and the only way they'll reach that is pretty decent PS5 Pro numbers in addition to the 30th anniversary numbers and any wukong china sales.

Next year's forecast without a price cut and without GTA6 would probably be like 10-11 million units, but if Sony can sell another 18 million units next year at full price due to all the stuff I mentioned above...That's 1.8 billion dollars that they otherwise wouldn't make.

If I'm them... I'm waiting...

 

[DenchDeckard]

I mean it's about the fundamentals.

• Sony is unlikely to drop the price ahead of GTA6's release
• Sony will evaluate unit sales once GTA6 releases, particularly when sales slow down
• I imagine that only after sales significantly slow down will Sony adjust the price of the consoles

We don't know when GTA6 is going to release outside of its current release schedule of 2025.

If we assume GTA6 will be out for the holidays, the latest it would release in November 2025, but generally they've always released GTA6 well ahead of the holidays September/October time frame.

If this is the case, I would expect sales to start to diminish for the PS5 family by Q2 2026 and we should see a price drop either by the end of Q2 or early Q3.

It's one of those tough ones with hardware, in this new climate. Do you reduce your sale price and drive x amount of sales at reduced margin in the hope that having a larger install base buys more software....or do you check the data and see that a large majority of those buyers stick to playing free to play games like Fortnite and Warzone, so it ends up making more business sense to sell less hardware, reduce the cost for production and reap higher margins. Sony will have all the behind the scenes data to make a decision.

 

[Brucey]

No way it sells more than double its current total in the second half of its lifespan. What are you smoking?

Has any console ever done that?

The 360 did after Kinect fad went viral if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Banjo64]

Xbox still hanging on in there like a champ!

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It's one of those tough ones with hardware, in this new climate. Do you reduce your sale price and drive x amount of sales at reduced margin in the hope that having a larger install base buys more software....or do you check the data and see that a large majority of those buyers stick to playing free to play games like Fortnite and Warzone, so it ends up making more business sense to sell less hardware, reduce the cost for production and reap higher margins. Sony will have all the behind the scenes data to make a decision.

It's certainly the latter.

PS4 players don't get to buy Wukong. They dont' get to buy Spider-Man 2. If these games aren't selling them, dropping the price is just so they can continue to play their F2P games.

The ones that want games like GTA6 are going to drop the full price of admission.

 

[Brucey]

The 360 did after Kinect fad went viral if I'm not mistaken.

vgchartz so grain of salt required.

 

[mckmas8808]

So you think this is still possible? I feel like it's getting harder as time passes. I'm interested to see how sonys sales are after this peak period because it looks like they are starting to slip behind ps4 now and they may struggle to pull it back.

I know a few people on here were saying ps5 pro will give a nice boost to numbers this year, so it will be interesting to see if it does give ps5 sales the boost they are expecting. I think the price has reduced the chances of that tbh.

I do. I'd give it a 60% chance of happening. But it's totally dependent on 3 things.

- Just how good will GTA 6 be?
- Will Sony ever lower the price of the base PS5 DE to $299 sometime in 2026?
- Will the PS5 Pro sell 10-15% of the overall PS5 consoles sales, once released?

 

[DenchDeckard]

I do. I'd give it a 60% chance of happening. But it's totally dependent on 3 things.

- Just how good will GTA 6 be?
- Will Sony ever lower the price of the base PS5 DE to $299 sometime in 2026?
- Will the PS5 Pro sell 10-15% of the overall PS5 consoles sales, once released?

Yeah, I think you've pretty much covered the bases there. If they can drop the price on the DE at least, it will probably become the biggest selling SKU for them, and the one with the highest return on selling games.

 

[KittyKatMan]

Who cares?

 

[mckmas8808]

It's one of those tough ones with hardware, in this new climate. Do you reduce your sale price and drive x amount of sales at reduced margin in the hope that having a larger install base buys more software....or do you check the data and see that a large majority of those buyers stick to playing free to play games like Fortnite and Warzone, so it ends up making more business sense to sell less hardware, reduce the cost for production and reap higher margins. Sony will have all the behind the scenes data to make a decision.

The bolded is NOT what they should do. It's stupid and shortsighted to view "those gamers" as just FTP gamers. I swear these executives in gaming seem like they hate gamers more and more these days. It's gotten to the point where you DenchDeckard seem to be falling for the lie now. Why man? Why fall for this lie?

 

[mayham2199]

So you think this is still possible? I feel like it's getting harder as time passes. I'm interested to see how sonys sales are after this peak period because it looks like they are starting to slip behind ps4 now and they may struggle to pull it back.

I know a few people on here were saying ps5 pro will give a nice boost to numbers this year, so it will be interesting to see if it does give ps5 sales the boost they are expecting. I think the price has reduced the chances of that tbh.

I do think there is still a chance. If it doesn't happen after GTA 6 though then yea I don't think it will happen or maybe much later down the line when we are already on PS6 and PS4 users decide just moving to PS5 is good enough. I don't think gens will matter at the end of PS5. I think all games will be both PS5/PS6 after that.

I don't think the Pro will help really. Might get a boost for that month but that's about it.

 

[Sooner]

I don't think gens will matter at the end of PS5. I think all games will be both PS5/PS6 after that.

Are you suggesting every PlayStation game from here on out will be playable on the current PS5?

Diminishing returns is one thing, but this is not realistic.

 

[FrankWza]

As long time PS user, i honestly want PS3 era back, more fun that time

I miss arrogant Sony too.

 

[DenchDeckard]

The bolded is NOT what they should do. It's stupid and shortsighted to view "those gamers" as just FTP gamers. I swear these executives in gaming seem like they hate gamers more and more these days. It's gotten to the point where you DenchDeckard seem to be falling for the lie now. Why man? Why fall for this lie?

I am not falling for any lie, I was just saying I have no idea what impact it would have on their business to drop the price. Its easy to say "they just need to drop the price and sales will be ok"

There is much more to it than that.

 

[clarky]

The bolded is NOT what they should do. It's stupid and shortsighted to view "those gamers" as just FTP gamers. I swear these executives in gaming seem like they hate gamers more and more these days. It's gotten to the point where you DenchDeckard seem to be falling for the lie now. Why man? Why fall for this lie?

Not only that his argument doesn't hold true. FTP players spend a ton on MTX, that's a lot of 30%'s

 

[Hookshot]

It’s all a ruse, by tanking their market share for a generation they can claim they need things like COD as exclusives to catch back up and the financial watchdogs will allow it.

Trust in Phil for he is a genius.

 

[m14]

The Series S should get a serious boost from GTA 6. It will provide the most cost effective option for playing the game to a new console buyer and the form factor will likely have mass market appeal too.

 

[onQ123]

The PS4 pro was cheaper, had a better hook(4k gaming) and arguably had a better library to take advantage of what i consider was a bigger upgrade at the time. Also most sony titles are already upgraded, on PC, this time around.

Most of the folks still on a 4 are not spending £700 to upgrade, they'll just buy the 5 if they waited thos long most are not bothered about a res bump and frame rate boost

The 4 pro didn't sell 20 million, i can't see this besting it to be honest. Maybe im wrong. Well see.

The failure in this thinking is not realizing that 4K was in a transitioning stage when PS4 Pro was released so 4K being it's selling point also hindered it's sales .

 

[mdkirby]

Untrue. The Series X is a fine console, just there is no compelling reason to own one.

Worse still, I have one, but find no compelling reason to turn it on , it’s just like a silent guard, dutifully stood there keeping watch over the constantly running ps5.

 

[clarky]

The failure in this thinking is not realizing that 4K was in a transitioning stage when PS4 Pro was released so 4K being it's selling point also hindered it's sales .

First im hearing that the lack of 4k tv's hurt the Pros sales.

 

[onQ123]

First im hearing that the lack of 4k tv's hurt the Pros sales.

Guess you don't remember the wild who needs 4K days

 

[Clear]

Xbox's collapse this year has been truly shocking. I cannot believe MS have allowed the perception of the brand to fall like this.

 

[mayham2199]

Are you suggesting every PlayStation game from here on out will be playable on the current PS5?

Diminishing returns is one thing, but this is not realistic.

Maybe not every but I think the cross gen releases will go on longer then they ever have before.

 

[onQ123]

Xbox's collapse this year has been truly shocking. I cannot believe MS have allowed the perception of the brand to fall like this.

Only shocking to people not paying attention

 

[mckmas8808]

I am not falling for any lie, I was just saying I have no idea what impact it would have on their business to drop the price. Its easy to say "they just need to drop the price and sales will be ok"

There is much more to it than that.

No, I was talking about your view on FTP gamers. Many of them also buy games like Call of Duty, NCAA Football, Madden, FC25, NBA 2K, etc.