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[Magic Mushroom]

I don't want to sound like a hater, because I'm not. But I'm about 10 hours in BotW and I'm not seeing what makes this game the second coming of Christ. It's just a good game so far.

If it's just good to you, I wonder what you think are great games? Zelda is a beautifully designed game, with a wonderful world that rewards exploration and experimentation, fun combat and puzzles that can be tackled in a variety of ways, great use of physics and environmental interaction, lots of gameplay variety and great mechanics. It's really not that hard to see why it's been received so well.

But yeah, I guess this is the thread for it.

 

[LordRaptor]

The only thing controversial about Zelda is how it manages to continuously commit the same game design sins as other games, yet sidestep the negative criticism that comes with it.

That biased fake-news mainstream media and their pro-zelda agenda. Sad!

 

[Jerry]

I honestly only see hate for modern Bethesda games these days. I mean just search "skyrim" in this thread.

Outside of GAF they still get loads of praise.

I mean I can understand having some fun with them but you can still have fun with bad games

 

[Birgitte2004]

Zelda is a beautifully designed game, with a wonderful world that rewards exploration and experimentation, fun combat and puzzles that can be tackled in a variety of ways, great use of physics and environmental interaction, lots of gameplay variety and great mechanics. It's really not that hard to see why it's been received so well.

These words could apply to nearly all open world games.

With stamina which burns so fast, item durability with breaks so quickly, performance issues, and a seriously limited sound track, there is no way any other game would ever get a 98 metacritic, no matter how good the rest of the game is. Note that none of that even deals with gameplay or fun, yet other games would get hammered by that kind of stuff, because it doesn't have the Nintendo/Zelda immunity to criticism.

Note: I'm complaining about other games getting nailed, not for Zelda getting the pass. Zelda is really really good.

 

[famfrit]

These words could apply to nearly all open world games.

With stamina which burns so fast, item durability with breaks so quickly, performance issues, and a seriously limited sound track, there is no way any other game would ever get a 98 metacritic, no matter how good the rest of the game is. Note that none of that even deals with gameplay or fun, yet other games would get hammered by that kind of stuff, because it doesn't have the Nintendo/Zelda immunity to criticism.

Note: I'm complaining about other games getting nailed, not for Zelda getting the pass. Zelda is really really good.

Same opinion about Nintendo/Zelda immunity to criticism.

 

[Charles Brandon]

I'm putting this in here because it could probably be construed as a troll-post and when I say this I'm not doing it to antagonise people but I'm looking at all these great games coming out, Nioh, Nier, Horizon, Gravity Rush and Zelda to name the most obvious ones, and I'm thinking to myself that it must suck to be an Xbox One owner right now. Seem like a long time since a Microsoft console was in this position.

 

[LordKasual]

That biased fake-news mainstream media and their pro-zelda agenda. Sad!

I really hope you are able to see the irony in calling simple criticism "biased fake-news mainstream pro-something" or whatever.

The idea that a game should be exempt from fair criticism just because it's something you personally adore is the literal definition of bias.

Although its early and i'm operating without coffee so i really don't know what you were getting at

-Smash 4 is a million times better than Melee

Even the top Smash 4 players don't believe this is true.

Playing games (on the general level) for the story instead of the gameplay is really silly.

It's not always so easy to distinguish the two. Some players need a story to feel immersed in the game, no matter how good the gameplay is.

Destiny for example has a terrible story, but the gameplay is amazing. If the story was more solid, i'd probably be able to look past more of the gameplay blunders to enjoy the game.

This was probably true back in the day when a "cutscenes" never lasted more than 10 seconds at a time.

 

[Raptor]

Playing games (on the general level) for the story instead of the gameplay is really silly.

Agreed, playing it for any reason outside of gameplay is silly, we might get stoned tho.

raises flame shield!!

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Brawl would have been GOTY material if it actually had online play that worked.

 

[pbayne]

I'm putting this in here because it could probably be construed as a troll-post and when I say this I'm not doing it to antagonise people but I'm looking at all these great games coming out, Nioh, Nier, Horizon, Gravity Rush and Zelda to name the most obvious ones, and I'm thinking to myself that it must suck to be an Xbox One owner right now. Seem like a long time since a Microsoft console was in this position.

Was thinking that the other day too. Like what are the Xbox exclusives that people are looking forward to this year and i just drew a blank.

 

[LordRaptor]

I really hope you are able to see the irony in calling simple criticism "biased fake-news mainstream pro-something" or whatever.

The idea that a game should be exempt from fair criticism just because it's something you personally adore is the literal definition of bias.

I don't believe games should be exempt from fair criticism.
I don't believe any games are exempt from fair criticism.

The idea that there is a global media conspiracy to deflect saying bad things about Zelda - and only Zelda, and specifically only this Zelda - is fucking mental.

 

[LordKasual]

I don't believe games should be exempt from fair criticism.
I don't believe any games are exempt from fair criticism.

The idea that there is a global media conspiracy to deflect saying bad things about Zelda - and only Zelda, and specifically only this Zelda - is fucking mental.

It isn't mental at all, and for obvious reasons we all can relate to. It has nothing to do with "conspiracy", it's just nostalgia and bias -- two very powerful factors. Sonic games have been absolute garbage for years, but people still get excited to see green grass and checkered tiles because it reminds them of a time when Sonic was the coolest thing ever.

The only reason it bothers people that anyone complains about Zelda's consistently overly-lenient scoring is because they're very emotionally attached to Zelda. Reviewers will literally devote paragraphs to faulty Zelda mechanics/implementations, and then brush them off in the scoring section for some touching little thing the game did to tickle their nostalgia synapses. They'll do the same thing to other games, except without the touching little "zelda thing" it can't do (because it isn't zelda) and the work is penalized for it.

People don't like to hear that, but it's the truth. But something tells me if I were to turn around and bitch about how MGSV definitely didn't deserve any 10s or possibly GTAV, you'd probably be alot less up in arms about it.

 

[LordRaptor]

People don't like to hear that, but it's the truth. But something tells me if I were to turn around and bitch about how MGSV definitely didn't deserve any 10s or possibly GTAV, you'd probably be alot less up in arms about it.

If you said "I don't like zelda as much as aggregate critical opinion does" I literally wouldn't care.

If you said "Aggregate critical opinion of GTAV is too high because nostalgia / free pass / moneyhats / bias" I would laugh at you.


e:
Because "I have different opinion" is a vastly different statement to "everyones opinion is different to mine, so they are all wrong"

 

[Charles Brandon]

Was thinking that the other day too. Like what are the Xbox exclusives that people are looking forward to this year and i just drew a blank.

I was just looking at metacritic

Of the top ten reviewed games this year, only two were available on Xbox One - Resident Evil 7 and Ghost Recon: Wildlands. Eight were on PS4, including five exclusives, then there was Zelda and Dragon Quest 8 on 3DS.

 

[LordKasual]

If you said "I don't like zelda as much as aggregate critical opinion does" I literally wouldn't care.

If you said "Aggregate critical opinion of GTAV is too high because nostalgia / free pass / moneyhats / bias" I would laugh at you.

I'm a massive Zelda fan. I just try not to delude myself. Skyward Sword was nowhere close to a 10/10 videogame, let alone a 10/10 Zelda game. I haven't beaten BotW yet, but i've already seen too many things other games get blasted for that miraculously didn't factor into its final score.

GTAV is one of the few games in existence I would personally give a 10 scoring to. It's one of the greatest culmination of tech, polish and writing gaming has ever seen, if not the best.

As a Zelda fan...i'm actually not bothered that Zelda gets 10s. The only thing that bothers me is that other equally great games don't get that +10 Nostalgia advantage that Zelda just inherently has. Nintendo knows this though, obviously. Which is probably why Zelda's core formula has refused to change up until now. It works, it's familiar, and it strikes a chord with longtime players.


The real takeaway here is that a 10/10 "PERFECT" score is an inherently subjective thing. The reason games like Zelda can easily jump over that subjectivity hoop (despite obviously not being perfect) is because of emotional boosters like nostalgia. Seeing familiar things, mechanics, sounds, themes, in a new shell but still familiar in a pleasing way.

It takes nothing away from the game itself. It's just an observation, and while i understand it completely, i do not think its fair.

 

[LordRaptor]

GTAV is one of the few games in existence I would personally give a 10 scoring to. It's one of the greatest culmination of tech, polish and writing gaming has ever seen, if not the best.

GTAV has a derivative storyline, a reliance on puerile low effort 'satire', suffers from a range of technical shortfalls including aggressive pop-in to the extent that it is possible to crash into obstacles that have not been rendered visible yet when moving at speed, and has a clumsy and awkward control scheme compared to many other third person titles.

It is also an entertainment product, so none of that actually matters that much because the totality of the overall experience far exceeds the sum of its parts.

The real takeaway here is that a 10/10 "PERFECT" score is an inherently subjective thing. The reason games like Zelda can easily jump over that subjectivity hoop (despite obviously not being perfect) is because of emotional boosters like nostalgia. Seeing familiar things, mechanics, sounds, themes, in a new shell but still familiar in a pleasing way.

It takes nothing away from the game itself. It's just an observation, and while i understand it completely, i do not think its fair.

Again; you are literally saying "I can't possibly have any bias, so anyone who likes a thing more than me is because everyone else is biased".
Which demonstrates a hilarious lack of self awareness.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

I'm putting this in here because it could probably be construed as a troll-post and when I say this I'm not doing it to antagonise people but I'm looking at all these great games coming out, Nioh, Nier, Horizon, Gravity Rush and Zelda to name the most obvious ones, and I'm thinking to myself that it must suck to be an Xbox One owner right now. Seem like a long time since a Microsoft console was in this position.

For me at least, I'd only buy Zelda at launch, and Horizon when it hit $30. I fell out with Japanese games years ago.

 

[lumzi23]

Mass Effect 3 is the best Mass Effect game.

 

[Mihos]

I'm putting this in here because it could probably be construed as a troll-post and when I say this I'm not doing it to antagonise people but I'm looking at all these great games coming out, Nioh, Nier, Horizon, Gravity Rush and Zelda to name the most obvious ones, and I'm thinking to myself that it must suck to be an Xbox One owner right now. Seem like a long time since a Microsoft console was in this position.

XBOne is my least played console, but I have to admit, I may fall into the subscription service they announced. I haven't bought a game for that system since release.

 

[Flui111]

I just *knew* someone would use this thread to bash Breath of the Wild, lol.

So just because people don't like a game as much as you do, criticism is now bashing?
Nintendo fanboys officially wierdest people on the internet

 

[LKSmash]

Souls series is overrated.

I concur. Don't see the appeal.

 

[Peltz]

Switch when docked is powerful enough as a home console and has more impressive tech than PS4 due to the incredibly small size factor. It plays Mario Kart 8 in 1080p native resolution and BOTW in 900p.

Games look amazing on it and I prefer it to my PS4 even though I never undock it because it's super small and runs super quiet and the graphics are nearly as impressive as PS4.

We don't need more power than this and other hardware manufacturers should focus more on decreasing the size of consoles rather than gunning for 4K resolution right now.

 

[Charles Brandon]

The graphics on BOTW are no where near as good as some games on PS4 from a technical perspective. The software has really been limited by the hardware there, IMO.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

People only post controversial opinions to be edgy.

 

[keltickennedy]

This was immediately obvious upon first gameplay showing of the game.

The only people this is controversial to are hardcore Nintendo fans who love to gas up Zelda as the most significant thing gaming ever sees when they drop

The only thing controversial about Zelda is how it manages to continuously commit the same game design sins as other games, yet sidestep the negative criticism that comes with it.

Hype is a powerful thing few developers can take advantage of these days. Years of development building the anticipation for the game.

The best examples would be....

Nintendo's key franchises, Zelda and Mario (Zelda more so. Mario shows up in multiple games).

Rockstar's games

The Elder Scrolls

Switch when docked is powerful enough as a home console and has more impressive tech than PS4 due to the incredibly small size factor. It plays Mario Kart 8 in 1080p native resolution and BOTW in 900p.

Games look amazing on it and I prefer it to my PS4 even though I never undock it because it's super small and runs super quiet and the graphics are nearly as impressive as PS4.

We don't need more power than this and other hardware manufacturers should focus more on decreasing the size of consoles rather than gunning for 4K resolution right now.

I'm curious if you will feel the same way next year.

 

[JC Lately]

Weapon durability is never, ever a good idea. Either it's super easy to repair/replace weapons (in which case why bother) or it isn't and you're left with gimped offense at a crucial moment (providing the game with fake difficulty) or in encourages hoarding the best equipment for a 'later' that never comes (in which case, again, why bother?).

 

[Pixieking]

People who generalise other people's opinions suck.


And, more on-topic, Trophies and Achievements are an awful idea that play on people's desire for completeness.

And I say that a couple of hours after getting the Platinum Trophy for Bloodborne.

 

[Jacobson]

People who generalise other people's opinions suck.


And, more on-topic, Trophies and Achievements are an awful idea that play on people's desire for completeness.

And I say that a couple of hours after getting the Platinum Trophy for Bloodborne.

I think achievement/trophies can be good if they are added after the game is completed, like as an extra to the experience, but not necessary to enjoy the game to its fullest. It artificially adds game time, which isn't exactly a bad thing.

 

[calavera_jo]

Daikatana is a good game

 

[Like the hat?]

Other m is my favorite Metroid game.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I found LIMBO to be very, very boring.

 

[Aaron D.]

5-year old, 2D "Map games" like Crusader Kings 2 are more immersive and better storytellers than most modern AAA whiz-bang open-world productions like Horizon, Witcher 3, BotW, etc.

 

[Goldboy]

I found LIMBO to be very, very boring.

Me too. Kinda want to try INSIDE but I'm on the fence considering how much LIMBO failed to grab me.

 

[TheKastorian]

I found LIMBO to be very, very boring.

This.

INSIDE on the other hand, is a masterpiece.

 

[Mercador]

There's way too much Switch threads..
*Hide behind a wall*

 

[frogger]

There's way too much Switch threads..
*Hide behind a wall*

And I think switch is another pathetic attempt by Nintendo.

 

[Brodnax]

There's way too much Switch threads..
*Hide behind a wall*

Nothing controversial tbh, cause you are right. There's some people that are just making threads out of opinions that should be just posts on other threads, positive or negative they are just opinions and don't deserve a thread.

 

[Jacobson]

There's way too much Switch threads..
*Hide behind a wall*

I'm not active in GAF, isn't this always the case whenever a new console releases?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Weapon durability is never, ever a good idea. Either it's super easy to repair/replace weapons (in which case why bother) or it isn't and you're left with gimped offense at a crucial moment (providing the game with fake difficulty) or in encourages hoarding the best equipment for a 'later' that never comes (in which case, again, why bother?).

This goes hand-in-hand with item rarity. The difficulty to obtain an item is inversely proportional to a gamer using it at any point. Phoenix Downs are really easy to come by, so we go through those shits like candy. Megalixirs? I can't use that now, they're impossible to find! You could literally be on the final boss and in a situation where a specific item will keep you from losing the game and think "but then I won't have it anymore!" I think our generation has an increased likelihood of hoarding based solely on JRPGs.

 

[Peltz]

The graphics on BOTW are no where near as good as some games on PS4 from a technical perspective. The software has really been limited by the hardware there, IMO.

I don't think looking at technical specifics like AA, resolution, and framerate, are the be all end all. Yes, I notice these things, but the lighting and overall art style is far more important.

Plus, BotW has no non-interactive environmental set pieces. Every blade of grass and tree can be cut down. Every surface can be climbed. Every non-human creature can be killed, and every bug flying around can be captured.

That does impose limitations on the graphics that many people who focus on "technical perspectives" fail to account for. They don't just throw pretty stuff into the game because it looks nice. Every single element of the game's world is an aspect of the level design, and yet it still manages to pull off incredible vistas and gorgeous graphics despite a few framerate issues and 900p resolution. This game is a masterclass in level design and all of the graphics serve a gameplay function.

I found LIMBO to be very, very boring.

You're not alone. It's style over substance.

 

[Mercador]

Nothing controversial tbh, cause you are right. There's some people that are just making threads out of opinions that should be just posts on other threads, positive or negative they are just opinions and don't deserve a thread.

Yeah, Well I thought that was the OT thread but half of the threads are on the Switch. I guess it will be less within a week or two...

 

[Pixieking]

I think achievement/trophies can be good if they are added after the game is completed, like as an extra to the experience, but not necessary to enjoy the game to its fullest. It artificially adds game time, which isn't exactly a bad thing.

*nods* Yeah, okay, I can get behind that idea - I only went for the BB Platinum after having played NG+ for a couple of hours. I didn't start NG+ to get the trophies, I got the trophies because I enjoyed playing it so much.

 

[Birgitte2004]

Because "I have different opinion" is a vastly different statement to "everyones opinion is different to mine, so they are all wrong"

The argument that reviewer aggregate is more likely to be correct would be a much more compelling argument if BOTW's 4th best metacritic all time wasn't right behind GTA4's PS3 metacritic. Almost nobody believes GTA4 is that good. I don't know anyone who believes it's better than GTA5, but it reviewed better, so I guess I'm not allowed to believe that the reviewers were wrong.

 

[gow3isben]

Last of Us is merely good, not one of the best of last gen. Uncharted 2 for example, completely blows it out of the water.

Also, Bloodborne is okay. Kind of a slog but great combat and admittedly best-in-biz boss encounters.

 

[Toe-Knee]

I found inside to be mind numbing.

 

[Gai Murakumo]

Sonic '06 is really not that bad of a game. Though quite buggy and the load times leave a lot to be desired, I still enjoyed playing it.

 

[LordRaptor]

The argument that reviewer aggregate is more likely to be correct would be a much more compelling argument if BOTW's 4th best metacritic all time wasn't right behind GTA4's PS3 metacritic. Almost nobody believes GTA4 is that good. I don't know anyone who believes it's better than GTA5, but it reviewed better, so I guess I'm not allowed to believe that the reviewers were wrong.

People weren't reviewing GTA4 against GTA5 though.
Because GTA5 did not exist.

It is vastly more likely that where you are an outlier opinion that it is as a result of your own cognitive bias than everyone else is biased and you are not.

 

[BlindJesus]

I love weapon durability and limited inventory/weight limits in games. Fight me

 

[hbkdx12]

Coming off horizon zero dawn, the term Rpg is beginning to become a caricature of itself. It's like the new buzzword that every game wants to associate itself with presumably because RPG inherently suggests depth in its gameplay systems and the longevity of the game itself.

I'm not sure why this game is labeled an action Rpg. It has dialogue choices that have very little, if any meaningful consequences. There's a rarity system that doesn't need to be there given that there's no loot drops. There's a very barebones crafting system ala far cry/tomb raider and there's a skill upgrade tree that doesn't lend itself to specialized play styles. Instead your leveling up just for the sake of it where you'll eventually get all the upgrades ala far cry/ tomb raider.

It's a third person action game. A great one. There's nothing wrong with that but the Rpg elements are very middling at best.

 

[calavera_jo]

I found LIMBO to be very, very boring.

Yeah, the game is kind of bankrupt in the gameplay department