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Silent Hill 2 |OT| You promised you'd take me there again someday...

I finished the game. Got leave ending. Maybe i'll replay it someday on PS5 Pro or something.

Bloober made Silent Hill great again. Best Silent Hill since SH1-4 by a mile.
The atmosphere / characters are mostly on point, great audio / graphics / environments, combat is better and scary with mannequins stealing the show, i liked the bosses, puzzles were fine. I prefer the original menu and fmv intro but ok.

Having said that i can't say it's better than the original when i can't stand this new Maria. The cutscenes, the voice acting, the appearance.. I felt nothing, her presence is nothing compared to the original.
 

ikbalCO

Member
We need to talk more about how this game is the best at utilizing the dumb speaker on dualsense controllers. Really enhance the experience to the max.

(the worst is always and forever will be fifa games with the ball hitting the nets sound)
 
It really is hilarious the absolutely Olympic-level mental gymnastics people will do to try and take what was ultimately a technical/budget-centric decision and turn it into some kind of masterful design choice. Using a fixed camera allowed them to cut down on some of the geometry they would need to render on the PS2, saving performance and memory. Go look at Zealot Tormunds's videos about his third person camera mods for SH2/3. He shows a few of the areas where he had to go back and add in geometry because his mod allows you to see things you weren't supposed to, like missing walls or ceilings. Shit, even with his mod installed you can still see things in the bowling alley that were clearly done to save on rendering, like alcoves that lead to nowhere or a bowling pin that has the half you can't see missing.

I actually just played through the original again after going through the remake. I say this as a fan that played the original back in 2001 and has played it multiple times since: The remake is much better.
  • The camera in the original doesn't make the game more tense at all. It just makes it more difficult to see anything and to get where you're going. It adds frustration, not tension.
  • As much as I dislike the combat in the remake, the original makes it seem like it was designed by Platinum. And no, don't give me that bullshit excuse that the unresponsive controls and bad aiming are there to make you feel less powerful. They're there because Team Silent in 2001 couldn't design a good combat system.
  • Holy shit the original is like 1/3 the size of the remake, and it's worse off for it. So much of the original feels incomplete compared to the remake, like the remake is the intended director's cut of the film while the original is the shitty theatrical version edited by the studio.
  • The voice acting in the remake is astoundingly good. Every member of the cast knocks it out of the park. While the OG is fine for 2001, it comes off as much more stilted and less engaging that the remake. "Oh, well it's supposed to be like that cause MUH DAVID LYNCH" is another bullshit excuse made by fanboys to hand wave away criticism. It completely kills the emotional weight of the story when most of the dialogue is delivered in a way that wouldn't pass muster in a mid-level anime dub nowadays. The cast of the remake, especially James, shows the FUCK up in comparison.
  • The cut scenes are from another dimension in terms of direction, emotional impact, and quality compared to the ones from the original game. This should be expected given the 23 year age gap, but it's really hard to overstate how well done they are.
  • The environments in the remake are chock full of so much more detail and feel like actual places, while the ones in the OG can often feel sparse and empty in comparison.
I'll even take my assessment a step further. Silent Hill 2 Remake is not only better than the original, it's the best Silent Hill game ever made and an absolute stone-cold classic of its genre. Bloober Team has pulled off one of the most unexpected surprises in gaming history, and my only hope is that Konami gives them to the green light to do remakes for SH1 and 3.
As someone who prefers RE96 over REmake, I welcome your mind set.

Congrats OG SH2 diehards, and welcome to the "remake replaces the OG" party. Happy to have you! Lol.
 

Flabagast

Member
I finished the game. Got leave ending. Maybe i'll replay it someday on PS5 Pro or something.

Bloober made Silent Hill great again. Best Silent Hill since SH1-4 by a mile.
The atmosphere / characters are mostly on point, great audio / graphics / environments, combat is better and scary with mannequins stealing the show, i liked the bosses, puzzles were fine. I prefer the original menu and fmv intro but ok.

Having said that i can't say it's better than the original when i can't stand this new Maria. The cutscenes, the voice acting, the appearance.. I felt nothing, her presence is nothing compared to the original.
Yeah I guess that actually they wanted to make a subtler, more nuanced Maria vs the original but it results in a blander version at the end. It does not prevent the rest of the experience to be fantastic though
 

Chuck Berry

Gold Member
And the Halloween season too.

Seriously, people really need to play this game now if they can afford it and have any interest in it. Such a great game for this time of year.

For real, and like what constitutes appropriate "waiting" time for an assumed upgrade? Six months? A year? Have fun. And then when you finally play it no one will give a shit. Now the foliage looks extra crisp. Ooh. :messenger_grinning_smiling:
 
No, the thing in the cage that try to kiss me with his vagina (?).
Such a strange ass bossfight :lollipop_grinning_sweat:

Btw, i'm trying to use the "shoot the knee and then go melee" on the nurses but the number of projectiles for the stun is completely random, sometimes they go down woth 2 hits, sometimes they don't go down even wih 4 bullets.

I really dislike how many elements of the combat feel random, from enemy health to stuff like this.
SHOTGUN time!
 

Killer8

Member
It really is hilarious the absolutely Olympic-level mental gymnastics people will do to try and take what was ultimately a technical/budget-centric decision and turn it into some kind of masterful design choice. Using a fixed camera allowed them to cut down on some of the geometry they would need to render on the PS2, saving performance and memory. Go look at Zealot Tormunds's videos about his third person camera mods for SH2/3. He shows a few of the areas where he had to go back and add in geometry because his mod allows you to see things you weren't supposed to, like missing walls or ceilings. Shit, even with his mod installed you can still see things in the bowling alley that were clearly done to save on rendering, like alcoves that lead to nowhere or a bowling pin that has the half you can't see missing.

I actually just played through the original again after going through the remake. I say this as a fan that played the original back in 2001 and has played it multiple times since: The remake is much better.
  • The camera in the original doesn't make the game more tense at all. It just makes it more difficult to see anything and to get where you're going. It adds frustration, not tension.
  • As much as I dislike the combat in the remake, the original makes it seem like it was designed by Platinum. And no, don't give me that bullshit excuse that the unresponsive controls and bad aiming are there to make you feel less powerful. They're there because Team Silent in 2001 couldn't design a good combat system.
  • Holy shit the original is like 1/3 the size of the remake, and it's worse off for it. So much of the original feels incomplete compared to the remake, like the remake is the intended director's cut of the film while the original is the shitty theatrical version edited by the studio.
  • The voice acting in the remake is astoundingly good. Every member of the cast knocks it out of the park. While the OG is fine for 2001, it comes off as much more stilted and less engaging that the remake. "Oh, well it's supposed to be like that cause MUH DAVID LYNCH" is another bullshit excuse made by fanboys to hand wave away criticism. It completely kills the emotional weight of the story when most of the dialogue is delivered in a way that wouldn't pass muster in a mid-level anime dub nowadays. The cast of the remake, especially James, shows the FUCK up in comparison.
  • The cut scenes are from another dimension in terms of direction, emotional impact, and quality compared to the ones from the original game. This should be expected given the 23 year age gap, but it's really hard to overstate how well done they are.
  • The environments in the remake are chock full of so much more detail and feel like actual places, while the ones in the OG can often feel sparse and empty in comparison.
I'll even take my assessment a step further. Silent Hill 2 Remake is not only better than the original, it's the best Silent Hill game ever made and an absolute stone-cold classic of its genre. Bloober Team has pulled off one of the most unexpected surprises in gaming history, and my only hope is that Konami gives them to the green light to do remakes for SH1 and 3.

A lot of people just weren't around when Silent Hill 2 launched on PS2. It's an excellent game and one of my favourites of all time, but a great deal of its legendary status has been built up in the last decade by Youtuber essayists, often regurgitating the exact same talking points and fan theories. Analysis of the game became so trendy that it has frankly been done to death. There is literally nothing left to say at this point.

I suppose its only fitting that the Lakeview Hotel in the remake is modelled directly off the Overlook Hotel from The Shining - another thing that's been analysed to death.

Reviewers in 2001 had many of the same criticisms you point out now and for most it was a pretty definitive 8/10 sort of game. Great but not perfect. A lot of people even found it a little disappointing, particularly in Japan, which prompted Team Silent to rethink what they wanted to do with Silent Hill 3 (oh no, yet another example of the master auteurs reacting to outsider influence!).

I always share this video whenever people talk up SH2's combat as some sort of masterpiece:



While I agree with critics' assessment that the remake's combat is simplistic and gets repetitive (*both of these criticisms can be levelled against the original too), the general feel of the combat in the remake is leagues ahead of the original. There is so much more weight and brutality to the combat now. The difficulty of the game is also balanced really well i'm finding, at least at the normal difficulty level.

Also regarding the camera, I remember that in the original the camera can be swung around James at any time with the L2 button. A lot of trendy Youtubers talk about the game having 'fixed camera angles', when that just wasn't the case - it was a chase cam that can be manipulated into a sort of over-the-shoulder cam. And why can it be manipulated? Well I think that comes back to what Masashi said about them not being completely happy with the functionality of the chase cam, so there are options for when the player's visibility suffers.

The chase cam can undeniably create some amazing camera angles at points eg. in the original Silent Hill when walking through the first dog alley (that one was good enough for the movie to copy), but they ended up committing to a lot of camera annoyance for the sake of those few moments.

citizen kane applause GIF

Thanks for the gold!
 
A lot of people just weren't around when Silent Hill 2 launched on PS2. It's an excellent game and one of my favourites of all time, but a great deal of its legendary status has been built up in the last decade by Youtuber essayists, often regurgitating the exact same talking points and fan theories. Analysis of the game became so trendy that it has frankly been done to death. There is literally nothing left to say at this point.

I suppose its only fitting that the Lakeview Hotel in the remake is modelled directly off the Overlook Hotel from The Shining - another thing that's been analysed to death.

Reviewers in 2001 had many of the same criticisms you point out now and for most it was a pretty definitive 8/10 sort of game. Great but not perfect. A lot of people even found it a little disappointing, particularly in Japan, which prompted Team Silent to rethink what they wanted to do with Silent Hill 3 (oh no, yet another example of the master auteurs reacting to outsider influence!).

I always share this video whenever people talk up SH2's combat as some sort of masterpiece:



While I agree with critics' assessment that the remake's combat is simplistic and gets repetitive (*both of these criticisms can be levelled against the original too), the general feel of the combat in the remake is leagues ahead of the original. There is so much more weight and brutality to the combat now. The difficulty of the game is also balanced really well i'm finding, at least at the normal difficulty level.

Also regarding the camera, I remember that in the original the camera can be swung around James at any time with the L2 button. A lot of trendy Youtubers talk about the game having 'fixed camera angles', when that just wasn't the case - it was a chase cam that can be manipulated into a sort of over-the-shoulder cam. And why can it be manipulated? Well I think that comes back to what Masashi said about them not being completely happy with the functionality of the chase cam, so there are options for when the player's visibility suffers.

The chase cam can undeniably create some amazing camera angles at points eg. in the original Silent Hill when walking through the first dog alley (that one was good enough for the movie to copy), but they ended up committing to a lot of camera annoyance for the sake of those few moments.



Thanks for the gold!

The worst thing about OG SH2 are those essayists, it really did the game no favors in the long run because the game could already stand on its own but youtubers and viewers, many who likely never played the game, took things up to an absurd level of romanticization. It's been impossible to have a rational discussion about the game. The same thing kind of applies with Panzer Dragoon Saga but 99.9% of gamers haven't played it and aren't aware of the game but man, YT essays would have you believe that the game is the undisputed GOAT. I even saw one where the guy went full on Marxist and tried to make the case that capitalism prevented the game from finding an audience. lmao.

I personally think the OG SH2 is better, but I also never really enjoyed playing the game in the first place. The remake is infinitely more enjoyable to simply play. I'm glad the remake exists, the fanbase can at least debate something new for a change. :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 

evanft

Member
The worst thing about OG SH2 are those essayists, it really did the game no favors in the long run because the game could already stand on its own but youtubers and viewers, many who likely never played the game, took things up to an absurd level of romanticization. It's been impossible to have a rational discussion about the game. The same thing kind of applies with Panzer Dragoon Saga but 99.9% of gamers haven't played it and aren't aware of the game but man, YT essays would have you believe that the game is the undisputed GOAT. I even saw one where the guy went full on Marxist and tried to make the case that capitalism prevented the game from finding an audience. lmao.

I personally think the OG SH2 is better, but I also never really enjoyed playing the game in the first place. The remake is infinitely more enjoyable to simply play. I'm glad the remake exists, the fanbase can at least debate something new for a change. :messenger_grinning_sweat:
Good god. The number of long-form videos about SH2 that are probably longer than the game itself has to be some sort of record.

I think it's really a form of gatekeeping. Old survival horror games are clunky messes that are relics of their time, so a lot of gamers nowadays aren't too into them. By declaring your undying love for them, however, you get to draw some kind of artificial line between yourself and the rest of the unwashed, unsophisticated gaming masses. Now that there's a remake, however, that both modernizes the game in a multitude of ways (positively, I may add) and is actually available to purchase on modern platforms, there's a new flood of people playing the game they've decided to base their whole personality around. The only reaction they can have is, "NOOOOOOOOOO IT'S NOT AS GOOOOOOD THE ORIGINAL HAD SOOOOOUUUULLLLLL" or whatever such bullshit.
 

Bartski

Gold Member
Also regarding the camera, I remember that in the original the camera can be swung around James at any time with the L2 button. A lot of trendy Youtubers talk about the game having 'fixed camera angles', when that just wasn't the case - it was a chase cam that can be manipulated into a sort of over-the-shoulder cam. And why can it be manipulated? Well I think that comes back to what Masashi said about them not being completely happy with the functionality of the chase cam, so there are options for when the player's visibility suffers.

The chase cam can undeniably create some amazing camera angles at points eg. in the original Silent Hill when walking through the first dog alley (that one was good enough for the movie to copy), but they ended up committing to a lot of camera annoyance for the sake of those few moments.
Best of all Silent Hill 2 Enhanced Edition comes with an option to make "search view" a toggle. I wonder why.

Silent Hill 3 is especially egregious at constantly defaulting to a medium-close front shot of Heather while entering combat, so you end up playing the game just holding it pressed, fighting against the default camera while it tries to move it... you guessed it, behind the player.
 
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The Cockatrice

I'm retarded?
Finally finished it

UEiD6wd.jpeg


I wont be doing 100% achievement runs because theres way too much shit to play, but perhaps some other time. Maybe when and if they remake the 1st/3rd one Ill replay it then. As for the game, I guess it was pretty good. Sound design was fantastic and visually as well. Sadly the performance was all over the place, had it drop to low 60's at times with no raytracing either on a 4070ti in empty rooms. Fucking UE5 man. Animation-wise is a bit stiff for the main character, the enemies were pretty decent. Level design was fantastic. Combat was a bit basic, extremely repetitive that wore itself after so many hours, but I suppose I can forgive it since its a remake of a very old game. Overall reckong Ill give it an 8.5/10. RE4 still remains my favorite remake which I gave an 8.6 but this one is close.

edit: right forgot about the bad things, I hated angelas voice actress and the kid. They played pretty fucking bad most of the time. James and Mary carried the cutscenes. Also 30 fps cutscenes for a 2024 game on PC is dumb as hell, and the fact that they chose to do those 30 fps cutscenes for certain actions like jumping in pits, was very odd, in a bad way.
 
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violence

Gold Member
I just played with the -UseFixedTimeStep and Nvidia 30 fps cap trick. Much better with the stutters. 30 is just fine for horror games. I even turned on raytracing for once.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
I don’t quite get the point of having masks for James. I hopped onto NG+ wearing the Robbie the Rabbit mask. It feels odd. Maybe I’m missing something. There’s the dog mask (which I get), the cardboard Pyramid Head mask, and then Robbie. It’s such a distraction from the norm.
 
The prison is absolutely and bar none the scariest fucking combination of aesthetics and sound design I've ever seen in a game. I'm not even far into it and good lord man.

That song with that repetitive horn kind of sound sets my teeth on edge it's so fucking eerie. It reminds me of how there was this one song in the Mindhunter S2 score that would just feel like it scraped your soul it was so creepy.
 
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James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
No and holding off the experience of this masterpiece under the assumption it'll get some sort of Pro boost is ridiculous.

Join the zeitgeist while you can.

Well, PS5 Pro is only a few weeks away....willing to wait that long. There's evidence of PSSR in the PC files.

If they don't have a patch ready to go day 1, at the very least it will benefit from dynamic resolution/frames via Boost mode....not willing to wait months for a "proper" PS5 Pro patch though if it's not ready day 1
 

Holdfing

Member
I just finally had time for a session again. The walk down that road towards the historical society with the music and time of day going made me feel all sorts of shit. Beautifully done. That building emerging from the soup-thick fog and weird light like the Psycho house was an amazing visual.
This was the part that reminded me of the feeling I had playing the original the first time: I feel awful and I don't want to play anymore, but I also want to play because I want to know the end of the story.

Still got me last night on my hard playthrough.
 

Braag

Member
The prison is absolutely and bar none the scariest fucking combination of aesthetics and sound design I've ever seen in a game. I'm not even far into it and good lord man.

That song with that repetitive horn kind of sound sets my teeth on edge it's so fucking eerie. It reminds me of how there was this one song in the Mindhunter S2 score that would just feel like it scraped your soul it was so creepy.
I always stopped on my tracks when I heard that and expected something massive to come through the wall or something, nothing ever came and that kinda made it even scarier lol
 
Being dynamic and letting you see everything to me makes it inherently less tense. Forcing a perspective can add to things like claustrophobia or directing your attention away from or obscuring danger. The unknown is way more scary than the known which is why you don't want to overshow your monsters in horror flicks, at least not when escalating the tension. That's not to say you can't build tension with a 3rd person camera, but I do agree that the default of forced perspective is old and therefor obsolete is a bit flawed as I think that style of camera still has merit.
From my perspective, the modern camera and graphics made the game much more immersive and scary. I feel like I'm part of the action and also the jump scares works extremely well in this perspective. I never got scared playing the original, but the remake made me jump a few times.
 

bender

What time is it?
From my perspective, the modern camera and graphics made the game much more immersive and scary. I feel like I'm part of the action and also the jump scares works extremely well in this perspective. I never got scared playing the original, but the remake made me jump a few times.

I turned the original off in the first ten minutes. I'm a wuss though. haha
 

Erebus

Member
Someone needs to remake this:



Though I don't think James can bang his head in the remake.
 
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tommib

Gold Member
I bought Robocop, Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water and played them for a bit thinking I would not go back to SH2. I went back to my SH2 NG+ after a couple of hours. That says a lot.

Definitely my GOTY. So my new top 3 is SH2, Rise of the Ronin and Helldivers 2.

I did not see that coming.
 
Getting to the end of the game but have slowed down because a) I've really been enjoying playing it, and b) I can see where the story is going and it's pretty sad.

For me, the best gaming experiences are the basically linear ones that take you on a journey, and every part of a journey is a little different than the one before.
 

Exentryk

Member
End of the Hospital area:

Man, why did Maria had to die? That was so out of the blue that it really hit hard. I was expecting some back stabbing shenanigans from her, but no way did I think she would die. Quite a shame. Really liked her dynamic with James. :(
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Fair enough. I found trying to kill nurses with handgun and pipe cost me more health packs.

If you let them get close you always put them on there back with one shot.
When the the knee shot + melee work, it's the best way to get rid of them, but like i said previously, sometimes you need 2 bullets, sometimes 3, sometimes 4, sometimes more.

I guess that not all the nurses were doing leg day at the gym religiously.

When i go full melee their attack are easier to dodge than the bi-legs dudes, they just have longer combos but without much feints or bizarre attack tempo like the delayed jab of bi-legs, but the camera a lot of times is the real enemy when it comes to dodge in small spaces, so you dodge the first 2 but them the camera get too close or lose focus and you can barely see the third or forth hit.
 
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End of the Hospital area:

Man, why did Maria had to die? That was so out of the blue that it really hit hard. I was expecting some back stabbing shenanigans from her, but no way did I think she would die. Quite a shame. Really liked her dynamic with James. :(
Normally deaths are telegraphed and the heroes have plot armor, so I was actually shocked when that happened. I saw someone on GAF grumbling that the scene wasn't handled well. I haven't played the OG all the way through to speak to whether it's different or better there, but Maria's death was effective, imo.
 
I finished this game a week ago. Dropping by to live vicariously through you all still playing through it. It's really special. Probably made even better because of my reservations going in, and feeling like Bloober has a true underdog arc as a result of it makes me want to spread positive word-of-mouth.

I'd played Observer, the Layers of Fear series, The Medium, Blair Witch, and even I didn't expect them to nail this like they did.
 
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