Blendernaut
Neo Member
I mean, I havent even tried to play it because I know I wont like this game.. But you have played about 50 hours! I couldn't last 50 hours in an "uninterseting" place to be
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I mean, I havent even tried to play it because I know I wont like this game.. But you have played about 50 hours! I couldn't last 50 hours in an "uninterseting" place to be
Zuzu
Member
I did enjoy the gameplay for the first 20-24 hours or so but yeah the last approx 25 hours were a waste of time (I’ve explained in more detail on page 3 and page 11 why I played so long)
Robbinhood
Banned
Funny how this game got me hyped to go back to CP2077, coincidentally with 2.0 dropping. I'm having a great time now after a rough reintroduction to the mechanics.
Starfield should have probably been advertised as Mass Effect instead of Skyrim in space. Maybe it would have been better received.
Starfield should have probably been advertised as Mass Effect instead of Skyrim in space. Maybe it would have been better received.
Are you kidding me? Play the first 5 hours of each back-to-back. I did and had never played ME1 before. ME1 was like a Michelin-starred restaurant to Starfield's bag of Wendy's someone left in their car overnight.
Zheph
Member
Mass Effect deserve a bit of respect
violence
Gold Member
It’s a big galaxy. Some girls are free spirits.I took some screen shots after on xbox after I made made my original post lol... These on on two totally different planets. and not even all the times its happened! lol
Sleepwalker
Member
Mass effect has decent writing tho
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
At least it's not the fatties in the game.I took some screen shots after on xbox after I made made my original post lol... These on on two totally different planets. and not even all the times its happened! lol
STARSBarry
Gold Member
I think the standard Starfield players experience transfers across this as they play
Slow and boring
Exciting and new
Repetitive and dull
Like you get past the first slog where the game then opens up a bit and you can do what you like and your having fun, then eventually you realise that everything is the same and the companions fucking suck.
Slow and boring
Exciting and new
Repetitive and dull
Like you get past the first slog where the game then opens up a bit and you can do what you like and your having fun, then eventually you realise that everything is the same and the companions fucking suck.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Not really since there just isn't very much that is comparable to Mass Effect. You can literally see the Skyrim underpinnings in Starfield and the Bethesda template is pretty obvious. Only commonality with Mass Effect is setting.
As soon as I reached constellation and talked to the NPCs I knew the companions were all going to be a bunch of annoying losers. Compare to someone like Wrex, holy shit. What a joke of a game.
gaming_again
Member
I took some screen shots after on xbox after I made made my original post lol... These on on two totally different planets. and not even all the times its happened! lol
They're supposed to be chicks? lmfao.
LegendOfKage
Member
You bring up a few interesting points. First, I should say that I agree that "woke" doesn't automatically mean your product sucks, although things can certainly go that way. I think The Boys on Amazon is a good example of a fairly woke television show that still manages to be well written and quite entertaining, for example. Another example would be The Witcher on Amazon. If they would have just stuck to the books, the casting for that show could have been what it was, but it would have still have been very entertaining.
I'd also strongly disagree that storylines related to prejudice, or racism, or slavery are inherently "woke," but that's another example of the subjectivity of the term, and another reason not to use it. Star Trek and X-Men are good examples of media that has told stories about those subjects years before "woke," "SJW," or even "politically correct" were a thing.
Lastly, I think Starfield is a good example of a modern "woke" game in that it's often less about what is in the game, and more about what has clearly been left out. And that's true of most media. I think even writers and directors understand that putting too much lecturing in a game isn't a good idea for a product you wish to sell. If it's true that nearly every faction has a woman leader, that's a good example. It's frequently all the choices that are made in the creation of a game or movie, rather than the storyline itself.
Meifu
Member
Mass Effect has GREAT writing compared to this, and just in general.
I'd say the only points where Mass Effect writing is semi weak is in parts of ME3 where they no longer had Drew Karpynshyn. Go talk to any side quest character on the citadel in ME1 and it will be better written and more believable than most of the main quest stuff in Starfield
Thanks Toots! I don't have as much time to game these days, so once a week is a big ask haha, but I'll post more thoughts when inspiration strikes.Quite an interesting read Boss !
I don't know if others pointed out these deeply troubling problems, but certainly not the game jounos.
It seems that all the systems Bethesda developped long ago for better games (elder's scroll, fallout 3, etc.) became nothing more than checklist entries that the devs have to strike without even understanding what they bring to the game and the gameplay. Every exemples you give show me that the devs don't understand what made those gameplay elements interesting in a rpg context. The companions actively ruining your game is the perfect exemple. All the cultural performative bullshit is just the cherry on top ("trusting the science"
If you had the time to do some kind of editorial thread once a week, talking a bit more in depth about something gaming related or not, i'm sure it would be pretty cool.
I know you post threads that are often really good, but i mean more like you do here : your take on something directly, no link to anything else needed.
kvltus lvlzvs
Member
I thought about playing starfield because tons of people at my job were playing it and it would be a good way to fit in, but in the end I decided to buy and play Guild Wars 1 instead. I dont regret my decision.
Happosai
Hold onto your panties
Something I've noticed with these games in 2023 (or just in the past couple years) is they really do want to be somewhat of an Elder Scrolls trope but fall flat by their result being 'a message' rather than, a game. Also making this 'yet another' open world game, the audience finds themselves wandering endlessly around and it gets tedious. Devoid of the thrill a great story, characters and innovation seems to have not even been considered given all the time these games spend in development.
Western RPGs like Fable really had that thrill or with JRPGs, I think Final Fantasy 16 brought that back for some. My outside GAF role is marketing strategy and we constantly look for a competitive edge as a value prop and really remain consistent to that. Makes me wonder if these studios consider that before launching these games and after.
gaming_again
Member
agree with you generally but when TNG came out political correctness was huuuuuuuge - they had a counsellor on the command bridge for a reason.
The way they tackled things was class, though. Think of that gender episode with Riker struggling to comprehend and empathise and ultimately being destructive compared to how that would be written now.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
I took some screen shots after on xbox after I made made my original post lol... These on on two totally different planets. and not even all the times its happened! lol
Bug? Or guns + underpants day?
BigLee74
Member
I take it all back - this game IS sexy!
Bug? Or guns + underpants day?
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
FunkMiller
Member
Quite simply, old school Star Trek prioritised the story telling and character, and allowed the political messaging to come organically from it. Nu-Trek puts the political messaging first, and the story second.
That's what 'woke' is, when used as a derogatory term for modern TV and movies. It's writing that puts agendas first, and story and character second.
Good writing always does it the other way around.
Raven117
Member
X1000
Best marketing Cyberpunk had was a rough Starfield (and a realization just how far CDProjektRed is in front of this type of game).
JackMcGunns
Member
I laughed out loud at the romance with Sarah section of your post, now that's great writing... wait a minute, is Besethda hiring?
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ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
This.
We have a generic fantasy cult (lol what), a generic Firefly space cowboys, a generic Galactic Federation a-la Starship Troopers and bland as hell Cyberpunk corpo. Oh, and some secret sect. It's not even properly interconnected, let alone fleshed-out. There's no economics, religion, culture. Not even the basic layers of human interactions are embedded into the story. It's almost like writers had no empathy on a basic level of understanding to even ask the obvious questions.
A few days ago I've returned to Outer Worlds and my god, after Strafield it's like New Vegas after F4. Yes, everything is smaller and on a bugdet, but the writing and the universe in on a whole another level. There's religion here, there's human emotions, there's coprorate dynamics and human struggle for survival. The Halcyon is small and kinda campy, but very much alive. Despite the satire you can believe in the world of Halcyon, engage with it, be immersed within it. Murder Whodunit DLC is brilliant too, shame I've missed it earlier.
Starfield, on the other hand, is like a bland collection of a checklist form a "Sci-fi setting to-do list". Honestly, not once I've felt that the writers were acually interested with the stuff they were writing. Best stories here are literally sci-fi classics retellings (from books to shows), only way more empty and toothless. Devoid of gray morals and actual attention to the developed concepts. You can't even quote a single charater, that's how sterile writing here is. Huge chunks of a basic world-building are just missing (now written or glossed over). Some in-your face questions are not answered or ignored altogether. There is no truly deep lore whatsoever too, there's nothing to explore about this world in stiry and narrative department because deep storytelling is as thin as it gets. You'll maybe get a book or a passive voiced-over presetnation. PArt of the reason why Starfield doesn't use proper cutscenes with quality direction and really good setpieces. There's just nothing to tell here, that's all.
It's just corporate writing and storytelling as it finest. Game that was made not because the majority of writers wanted to write and develop it (see Mass Effect Trilogy, Disco Elysium, Horizon, CP2077 despite it's flaws), but because your boss tasked you with making a 'dunno, rpg with spaceships, go figure it out'. There is no passion to be found behind every nook and cranny in the writing department and that's why things are kind falling apart when the shooting stops.
P.S. This is written by a D&D DM and maybe it hurts my feelings too much, but oh well.
Complete and utter nonsense. STAR TREK is literally about humanity - and by extension the Federation - moving beyond "categories" and allowing anyone to succeed within this "utopia." ST:TNG especially went in on themes like this HARD, and this is a show that debuted decades before anyone was talking about "wokeness." If you think Rodenberry didn't know what he was doing casting Nichols and Takei in a broadcast show in the mid-60's for roles that were not about the race of their characters. . .I dunno.
. . .I mean the idea that sci-fi (hard or otherwise) isn't first pulling from the current cultural zeitgeist - or even just using it as a jumping off point - to tell stories second (and not this "Oh they're just telling good stories that cowinkydinky offer parallels to the modern world") is insane.
GymWolf
Member
In space nobody can hear your transition.
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
I have no vagina, but I must reeee.
GymWolf
Member
Don't sell yourself short buddy.
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
You're right. This is the future!
a multicultural team of v
Member
I'm playing Baldur's Gate 2 right now and just shaking my head in disbelief whenever I read Starfield accounts like this. Poor Korgan would have been arrested for hate crimes within the first 30 minutes of Starfield...
Reave
Member
You definitely make some valid points — particularly with romancing and the two-dimensional nature of the supporting characters.
However, I can’t really agree with the notion that this was ever marketed as a ‘Han Solo Simulator.’ If I’m being honest, that comes off as more of a misinterpretation of Bethesda’s actual intent.
There were quite clear that the objective of the game revolves around supporting Constellation’s objective, with the usual detours/distractions that offer a few good/evil paths. So, I suppose I can’t see how that could be internalized as inherently Han Solo-like. Frankly, nothing Star Wars-related ever crossed my mind during the Starfield Direct or anytime thereafter.
Ultimately, while I agree that Starfield isn’t particularly well-written, I respectfully disagree that this is among the worst of its kind in the RPG genre. I found plenty of quests and dialogue enhances that were written adequately and left me satisfied.
However, I can’t really agree with the notion that this was ever marketed as a ‘Han Solo Simulator.’ If I’m being honest, that comes off as more of a misinterpretation of Bethesda’s actual intent.
There were quite clear that the objective of the game revolves around supporting Constellation’s objective, with the usual detours/distractions that offer a few good/evil paths. So, I suppose I can’t see how that could be internalized as inherently Han Solo-like. Frankly, nothing Star Wars-related ever crossed my mind during the Starfield Direct or anytime thereafter.
Ultimately, while I agree that Starfield isn’t particularly well-written, I respectfully disagree that this is among the worst of its kind in the RPG genre. I found plenty of quests and dialogue enhances that were written adequately and left me satisfied.
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ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
Serious DMing experience should be a required resume bullet for anyone writing these games, but I would wager that 99% of the writing staff couldn't handle negotiating player actions and complex scenarios live at a table... they'd go for the modules that are 100% railroaded into little sequences of events so that the DM never has to think on the fly or reason about consequences in a sandbox world.
"For me, Starfield is the Han Solo simulator." -Todd Howard
Topher
Identifies as young
Isn't that exactly what
FunkMiller
is saying though...."old school Star Trek prioritised the story telling and character, and allowed the political messaging to come organically from it.".
Sleepwalker
Member
They already sold an expansion to the people that bought the early access so they have to make one.
Reave
Member
Hmm. The full quote apparently is as follows:
“For me, Starfield is the Han Solo simulator. Get in a ship, explore the galaxy, do fun stuff."
Would you say that Starfield doesn’t effectively accomplish that? He doesn’t seem to point to anything from a narrative standpoint, unless I’m missing some additional context.
Gp1
Member
Which is different to say that Fallout never got DLCs.
Even if Bethesda doesn't implement this, modders probably will when Beth launch their Mod Tools.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Ok, so the new “lens” we use to explain it is “forget about the first part of the quote, the second part erases the first part of the quote like Thanos’s snap and let’s focus of that technically you can explore even though wink wink nudge nudge you clearly knew people would not have thought jumping from menu to menu to menu with lots of loading screens for a next generation only title” right
?Your statement was: “However, I can’t really agree with the notion that this was ever marketed as a ‘Han Solo Simulator.’ If I’m being honest, that comes off as more of a misinterpretation of Bethesda’s actual intent.”
…
“You honour, I said ‘I will stab you thirty seven times’ in the chest to the victim and she was stabbed that many times exactly, but I also said ‘you stupid c*^t’” and that is evident they behaved like a c+*t… so… innocent right?”.
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Reave
Member
Not sure what you're on about. I stand corrected about the quote since I wasn't aware it existed. I'm only curious to learn more about what the Han Solo comparison meant to EvilLore in a narrative context since it sounded like more of a gameplay loop-related quote from Todd Howard.Ok, so the new “lens” we use to explain it is “forget about the first part of the quote, the second part erases the first part of the quote like Thanos’s snap and let’s focus of that technically you can explore even though wink wink nudge nudge you clearly knew people would not have thought jumping from menu to menu to menu with lots of loading screens for a next generation only title” right
You can relax.
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gothmog
Gold Member
I played 2077 and Starfield this weekend. 2077 grabbed a ton of my time because it was just more interesting. Writing is better and the game feels good. Starfield's issue is that you have to slog through the game often to get to the good stuff. I find myself just saving and quitting more often than moving on to the next quest because it just was boring.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
It's pretty dull.
I wish there was a "looter shooter" mode that upped the amount of powerful shit you find and killed all dialog options. Any time I end up in a dialog driven mission I am bored to tears and just wanting it to end so I can try to find a mission that's more about going off and battling bad guys, because I do really like the combat. And IF there was more meaning full loot that would be better too.
The companions all being different varieties of lawful good is really fucking dumb, but it seems guaranteed that will be solved by a DLC.
In the end though you realize you are being sent off to fight in like the 3 same copy-pasted places... mines that are all the same, research centers that are all the same, etc.
Really poor design TBH. A real waste how much effort went into such a middling game.
I wish there was a "looter shooter" mode that upped the amount of powerful shit you find and killed all dialog options. Any time I end up in a dialog driven mission I am bored to tears and just wanting it to end so I can try to find a mission that's more about going off and battling bad guys, because I do really like the combat. And IF there was more meaning full loot that would be better too.
The companions all being different varieties of lawful good is really fucking dumb, but it seems guaranteed that will be solved by a DLC.
In the end though you realize you are being sent off to fight in like the 3 same copy-pasted places... mines that are all the same, research centers that are all the same, etc.
Really poor design TBH. A real waste how much effort went into such a middling game.
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R6Rider
Gold Member
It's especially dumb when you consider the fact you can join a huge pirate faction and still have no option for an evil/bad leaning companion.
They could have done something fun with a robot companion and made it so you could program them to be good, evil, or even how they react to different types of interactions and crimes.
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Speaking of the pirate faction: If you join them, you can completely break a quest in which they aren't attacking another character's ship and thus you can't save them and continue the quest. Bethesda didn't even think the faction choices through.
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JackMcGunns
Member
lol okay then
First. There is literally no way what so ever to create or meet a woman in this game with bigger bust than like C cups without it being a fat person. The body morph sliders are completely broken. Hour glass figure don’t exist in this world. Go for a thin waist and the ass gets flatter than on some marathon runner. Literally the biologically preferred body type with wide hips don’t exist. Only if it’s a fat person. No pear shapes. No wide hips and thin waist. Can’t even have a round bigger butt or thicker thighs, and this is in a game made in 2023 when everybody including their grandmas are working out doing a million squats per day specifically to build that type of body. Don’t know if it’s some western politically correct sexualization or objectification protest or whatever it is but it’s quite possibly the most boring character design tool ever and since they use the same tool for all characters it means the whole universe is boring. Can’t believe nobody on the team of 500 or whatever devs hasn’t noticed it.
Secondly. There is no clothes anywhere in this game that in any way trigger anyone to be turned on. Not even in the night club. It’s like some office space unisex casual friday every day in the whole universe at the same time. They even messed up Andreja’s fairly nice black default clothes where you can get hints of some nice legs hiding underneath and placed some wrinkle on the skirt thing on the front so it looks like she’s sporting a hard-on if you look at her from the side.
There is more but I need breakfast
They're scared of having this outside their office
Going by the breast size I'm not sure who of them is an actual woman.
Bug? Or guns + underpants day?
Fess
Member
Is it better to be ridiculed all over the net for having the most boring character design ever in a big budget game?They're scared of having this outside their office
I really don’t understand what they’re trying to achieve here.
Imagine if you’re making a car game and you deliberately make every car look bad and boring and making the complete collection of cars lack variety.
Help me understand. This can’t be what the concept artists had in mind.
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
lol, this is exactly how I imagined the characters without having played yet.First. There is literally no way what so ever to create or meet a woman in this game with bigger bust than like C cups without it being a fat person. The body morph sliders are completely broken. Hour glass figure don’t exist in this world. Go for a thin waist and the ass gets flatter than on some marathon runner. Literally the biologically preferred body type with wide hips don’t exist. Only if it’s a fat person. No pear shapes. No wide hips and thin waist. Can’t even have a round bigger butt or thicker thighs, and this is in a game made in 2023 when everybody including their grandmas are working out doing a million squats per day specifically to build that type of body. Don’t know if it’s some western politically correct sexualization or objectification protest or whatever it is but it’s quite possibly the most boring character design tool ever and since they use the same tool for all characters it means the whole universe is boring. Can’t believe nobody on the team of 500 or whatever devs hasn’t noticed it.
Secondly. There is no clothes anywhere in this game that in any way trigger anyone to be turned on. Not even in the night club. It’s like some office space unisex casual friday every day in the whole universe at the same time. They even messed up Andreja’s fairly nice black default clothes where you can get hints of some nice legs hiding underneath and placed some wrinkle on the skirt thing on the front so it looks like she’s sporting a hard-on if you look at her from the side.
Sci-fi is dead in corporate hands. Look at Disney... the prequels were bad, but what they've turned it into after purchase is even worse. It's not just badly done, it's brain cancer on screen, a totally lifeless and sanitized universe devoid of real characters.