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[Hitokage]

Or the 2000's?

Hell, November 2000 was pretty tumultuous.

 

[PantherLotus]

Being an conservative doesn't mean that I some how want to see Obama fail, if he can fix issues then more power to him, the issue is that he isn't fixing things and there fore giving conservatives ammo. If he was actually a productive president, you would see conservative backlash weaken.

False. We would see, and have seen, morons that watch FOXNEWS continue to insist that he hasn't done anything. Not unlike this very moment.

Speaking of this "he hasn't done anything" meme, which I'm only recently observing, I see two things:

1. It's logically inconsistent with the idea that he's turning us into some sort of socialist anti-christ nation of zombies. If he is actually doing that, he's definitely doing something. (Beck)

2. It's not far from the meme that African Americans only want to live off of welfare (insert put-the-money-under-their-boots racist joke). (Rush)

3. Also, it's similar to the cognitive dissonance required to not only believe that Mexican immigrants only want to move here to live off of our "national welfare" but also want to "take our jobs." (Dobbs)

 

[mckmas8808]

Nah I think PD is right on that part, at least. I can't imagine a player saying no to money because of the owner. In truth, they have little choice in the matter--assuming they've already worked 5-10 years to get in a position to support their families with that skillset (with no comment on them choosing that as their only option).

- Panther think about it! No top of the line NFL that's a free agent HAS to sign a contract just because it's has the highest pay.

- NFL players turn down those big pay contracts ALL THE TIME in order to play for a better team.

- The Rams SUCK as a football team.

- The hate that the potential player could get from his fans could make playing for Rush a negative.

- The same reason the NFL had problems with Rush co-owning the team is the same reason some players WOULDN'T want to play for the Rams if they had a choice.


Why is this so hard for some people to understand? NFL players aren't retarded.

 

[BowieZ]

Never said you. Notice how my post include the union of two sets

the set "you" which only has one member (which is you) and libertarians which has an uncertain size.

learn to read :-/

EDIT: And I would like to add, you pay Devil's Advocate very poorly. Usually people who play Devil's Advocate try to do it in an intelligent way (of course, if you do it the other way, you more or less set up a strawman for the side you're portraying, which is pretty much what you do.)

1) "... and ..." is somewhat ambiguous in that context, mate. I'm not sure your patronization is warranted. I believe had you said "and A very small number of extreme libertarians" rather than "and the very few extreme libertarians" would have consolidated the separation between the two sets.

2) Do you have a specific example of what you consider to be my setting up a strawman argument? I'd like to better my debating skills so you have free reign over my posting history if you like.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Hell, November 2000 was pretty tumultuous.

As was most of the past decade, and the decade before, and on and on. As a previous thread pointed out, the level of political invective being thrown around right now is hardly unique or unprecedented.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes, I know that - but it doesn't change the fact that guaranteed money/contracts rule the NFL. The Rams suck and will struggle to find players with or without Rush. Same with my Lions. That being sad, bad teams with cap space and lots of cash to throw around do pretty well signing free agents.

Still waiting for examples of modern US professional sports players making political stands and declining cash on the table.

Nobody ever said "EVERY" NFL player will decline to play for a Rush Limbaugh owned team. The whole talk was about some select players turning down their contract offers if they were a free agent.

You are making it out to be something that it never was. And I said NFL players have turned down contracts for less trival stuff like location, coaching staff, and front office.

Put it this way.....do you believe that with Dan Snyder screwing up the Redskins this year(my favorite team) would prevent some players from going to Washington DC?

 

[PantherLotus]

- Panther think about it! No top of the line NFL that's a free agent HAS to sign a contract just because it's has the highest pay.

1. NFL players turn down those big pay contracts ALL THE TIME in order to play for a better team.

2. The Rams SUCK as a football team.

3. The hate that the potential player could get from his fans could make playing for Rush a negative.

4. The same reason the NFL had problems with Rush co-owning the team is the same reason some players WOULDN'T want to play for the Rams if they had a choice.

5. Why is this so hard for some people to understand? NFL players aren't retarded.

1. Name one.
2. Will they suck forever?
3. Fan Hate is relevant for about 10-15 players in the entire league, and then we're talking about jersey sales and potential broken endorsements.
4. Players really don't have the choice.
5. I'm pretty sure most people understand. Millions of dollars to play for a racist boss > Less money to play for a similarly racist, less public boss.

 

[speculawyer]

Why would you rather have Rush instead of Jerry Jones? Rush thought D. Mcnabb was overrated. By that statement alone it shows he doesn't know shit about football.

Why does Rush want in on the NFL anyway? It is a socialist organization that partakes in wealth redistribution! COMMIES!!!

 

[mckmas8808]

Being an conservative doesn't mean that I some how want to see Obama fail, if he can fix issues then more power to him, the issue is that he isn't fixing things and there fore giving conservatives ammo. If he was actually a productive president, you would see conservative backlash weaken.

But the economy is doing better now than it was doing 10 months ago.

 

[methos75]

False. We would see, and have seen, morons that watch FOXNEWS continue to insist that he hasn't done anything. Not unlike this very moment.

Speaking of this "he hasn't done anything" meme, which I'm only recently observing, I see two things:

1. It's logically inconsistent with the idea that he's turning us into some sort of socialist anti-christ nation of zombies. If he is actually doing that, he's definitely doing something. (Beck)

well I have always found this dumb to begin with.

2. It's not far from the meme that African Americans only want to live off of welfare (insert put-the-money-under-their-boots racist joke). (Rush)

3. Also, it's similar to the cognitive dissonance required to both believe that Mexican immigrants only want to move here to live off of our "national welfare" but also want to "take our jobs." (Dobbs)

As too the other two, i have my own thought's on Welfare first off, do I think anyone wants to stay on it. hell no. Personally I find it a type of modern day enslavement, and a way to keep minorities and uneducated whites in their place. If the government was really keen on helping these people, they set in motion work programs that taught them skill sets that would allow then to gain employment while merely helping them during that transition. As to the Illegal immigrant issues, they need too be fixed and that is truth. I really wish we would persecute illegals more and make it not to their advantage to come here through illegal means. I also think we need to make English the national language, and make a working understanding of it mandatory for work in the US.

 

[Hitokage]

But the economy is doing better now than it was doing 10 months ago.

This isn't the argument you want to be using.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Nobody ever said "EVERY" NFL player will decline to play for a Rush Limbaugh owned team. The whole talk was about some select players turning down their contract offers if they were a free agent.

You are making it out to be something that it never was. And I said NFL players have turned down contracts for less trival stuff like location, coaching staff, and front office.

Put it this way.....do you believe that with Dan Snyder screwing up the Redskins this year(my favorite team) would prevent some players from going to Washington DC?

Never suggested you said that. My argument: no player would turn down a contract simply because Rush was an owner. And you've done nothing to challenge that.

NFL players have turned contracts down for various reasons - but not for political causes.

If Snyder throws money at players, they'll come. I'm just glad my team is no longer the worst organization in the NFL

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

As too the other two, i have my own thought's on Welfare first off, do I think anyone wants to stay on it. hell no. Personally I find it a type of modern day enslavement, and a way to keep minorities and uneducated whites in their place. If the government was really keen on helping these people, they set in motion work programs that taught them skill sets that would allow then to gain employment while merely helping them during that transition. As to the Illegal immigrant issues, they need too be fixed and that is truth. I really wish we would persecute illegals more and make it not to their advantage to come here through illegal means. I also think we need to make English the national language, and make a working understanding of it mandatory for work in the US.

wh...what?

 

[PantherLotus]

As too the other two, i have my own thought's on Welfare first off, do I think anyone wants to stay on it. hell no. Personally I find it a type of modern day enslavement, and a way to keep minorities and uneducated whites in their place. If the government was really keen on helping these people, they set in motion work programs that taught them skill sets that would allow then to gain employment while merely helping them during that transition. As to the Illegal immigrant issues, they did too be fixed and that is truth. I really wish we would persecute illegals more and make it not to their advantage to come here through illegal means. I also think we need to make English the national language, and make a working understanding of it mandatory for work in the US.

Why didn't you respond to the giant post of the things our President has accomplished? Do you still believe he "hasn't done zip?"

1. Welfare - certainly a flawed system that could use improvement.
2. Illegal Immigrants - punish the people and companies that hire them. Easier, quicker, and more beneficial for all Americans to do so. And more profitable for the US.
3. English as a national language - you may want to learn it.

 

[Monroeski]

Yes, I know that - but it doesn't change the fact that guaranteed money/contracts rule the NFL. The Rams suck and will struggle to find players with or without Rush. Same with my Lions. That being sad, bad teams with cap space and lots of cash to throw around do pretty well signing free agents.

Still waiting for examples of modern US professional sports players making political stands and declining cash on the table.

It's not like they would hold a press conference.

"I'm very happy to have signed this contract with the Ravens, and can't wait to play for them. By the way, my agent also talked to the Rams but they're racist so I said no."

 

[Hitokage]

As too the other two, i have my own thought's on Welfare first off, do I think anyone wants to stay on it. hell no. Personally I find it a type of modern day enslavement, and a way to keep minorities and uneducated whites in their place. If the government was really keen on helping these people, they set in motion work programs that taught them skill sets that would allow then to gain employment while merely helping them during that transition. As to the Illegal immigrant issues, they need too be fixed and that is truth. I really wish we would persecute illegals more and make it not to their advantage to come here through illegal means. I also think we need to make English the national language, and make a working understanding of it mandatory for work in the US.

Vocabulary matters.

 

[zoku88]

1) "... and ..." is somewhat ambiguous in that context, mate. I'm not sure your patronization is warranted. I believe had you said "and A very small number of extreme libertarians" rather than "and the very few extreme libertarians" would have consolidated the separation between the two sets.

2) Do you have a specific example of what you consider to be my setting up a strawman argument? I'd like to better my debating skills so you have free reign over my posting history if you like.

1) no, it isn't Maybe if I had put "other" before "extreme" it would mean that you were a part of the set, but as I had it, there's no other meaning. It means the combination of the preceding argument (which is you) and the following argument, which is libertarians. The is not very important in that sentence. It can actually be left out, I believe. "The" is labeling a group (giving it a specific name.) "A" is indicating some sort of subset of extreme libertarians (which I suppose is more accurate, since not all extreme libertarians post.)

EDIT: What I mean is: the statement groups you with the extreme libertarians, but does not imply that you ARE a libertarian.

2) I wasn't saying you were setting up an implicit strawman. It's more like this.

You play Devil's Advocate --> you make weak arguments --> they're easily counterable.

I say "strawman" because it's not technically presenting the other side's as weak, it's just your "own." But it's still doing a disservice to the side you're trying to present (and that you may not even believe in.)

 

[methos75]

wh...what?

Why not, its like this in other countries and it works well. I am tired of going to Safeway, and not one person in there speaks English. I am not in Mexico, so why is it everyone speaks Spanish?

 

[dave is ok]

As too the other two, i have my own thought's on Welfare . first off, do I think anyone wants to stay on it. hell no.

I also think we need to make English the national language, and make a working understanding of it mandatory for work in the US.

:lol

 

[PantherLotus]

Vocabulary matters.

Did you miss the misuse of too/to (twice) and the misuse of apostrophe-S on "thought's?"

 

[mckmas8808]

I have to agree with PD as well.

Considering the fact the average NFL career is about 4 seasons (<--Clicky), it's all about TEH MONIEZ for them. I'd be very surprised if any NFL player would not sign with the Rams if they were the highest bidder just because of Limbaugh's covert racism.

That's because you don't watch football then. Many players have turned down a bigger contract in order to play for a better team that could win a championship. Many other players have accepted lower pay in order to keep/get better players.

If you were a student of what "actually" happens in the NFL you would know this. Have you ever heard of a NFL player named Pat Tillman? If not read this link.

Tillman turned down a five-year, $9 million contract offer from the St. Louis Rams out of loyalty to the Cardinals. But in March 2002, as he was negotiating a three-year, $3.6 million contract with the team, Tillman's priorities began to shift.

"Pat said, 'Hey, Frank, do me a favor. Worry about your other clients,' " Tillman's agent, Frank Bauer, told Time magazine. " 'Don't worry about me. I'm thinking about doing something else.' "

That "something else" was brought on in large part by the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. At the time, Tillman noted that his grandfather was at Pearl Harbor but that he himself hadn't "done a damn thing as far as laying my life on the line." In May 2002, Tillman returned from a South Pacific honeymoon with wife Marie and told his coach that he was enlisting in the military.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/03/27/MNGP4OSGB71.DTL&type=printable

Let me know when you guys will realize that it's not all about getting the highest paying contract for ALL NFL players ALL the time.

 

[methos75]

Did you miss the misuse of too/to (twice) and the misuse of apostrophe-S on "thought's?"

Should I now start pointing out ever misuse of yours also, you got quite a few as well. Hardly any post here would past review if this was an college level writing course.

 

[PantherLotus]

You keep saying ALL THE TIME. How many can you name? Can you name any players that would actually be effected by going to work for somebody that spews racist diatribe on a daily basis?

 

[BowieZ]

1) no, it isn't Maybe if I had put "other" before "extreme" it would mean that you were a part of the set, but as I had it, there's no other meaning. It means the combination of the preceding argument (which is you) and the following argument, which is libertarians. The is not very important in that sentence. It can actually be left out, I believe. "The" is labeling a group (giving it a specific name.) "A" is indicating some sort of subset of extreme libertarians (which I suppose is more accurate, since not all extreme libertarians post.)

Benny and the Jets.
Donna and the Aspinauts.
X and the Ys.

They're all part of the same band, the different sets are merely cosmetic because someone's in the focal point. Since you were addressing me, it's quite reasonable to expect that a second set beginning with "the" is more or less part of the same set.

 

[Monroeski]

As too the other two, i have my own thought's on Welfare . first off, do I think anyone wants to stay on it. hell no.

I also think we need to make English the national language, and make a working understanding of it mandatory for work in the US.

:lol

Well, technically a few misspellings and capitalization mistakes and such would still be a working understanding of it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I don't think Tillman is a good example but alright. Now find one that concerns a player turning down money to make a political stance ala Ali or Jim Brown

It's about the money the majority of the time, everyone knows that

 

[PantherLotus]

Should I now start pointing out ever misuse of yours also, you got quite a few as well. Hardly any post here would past review if this was an college level writing course.

Am I the one arguing for English as the national language? You write like a 3rd grader and are bitching about people that can't speak as well as you. Do you realize that your lack of education is the reason you don't have a better job, and not "the illegals?"

To get back on topic, do you also realize that it is the serial misinformants like FOXNEWS, Rush Limbaugh, and Lou Dobbs that make you believe illegal immigrants have anything to do with your job security?


edit: Also, feel free to point out my mistakes. I know I make a few so I'd be happy to see them.

 

[Hitokage]

Did you miss the misuse of too/to (twice) and the misuse of apostrophe-S on "thought's?"

That would be grammar and punctuation, sir.

 

[zoku88]

Benny and the Jets.
Donna and the Aspinauts.
X and the Ys.

They're all part of the same band, the different sets are merely cosmetic because someone's in the focal point. Since you were addressing me, it's quite reasonable to expect that a second set beginning with "the" is more or less part of the same set.

Uhm, so those statements don't imply that Benny is a part of the Jets. You just read it that way because you already know that Benny is a part of the Jets.

In fact, every time there is an "X and the Ys", it can ALWAYS be read as a group of X combined with the Ys. The same is not true, that X is a subset of Y. THEREFORE, you cannot assume that that is what it means.

EDIT: But this is all an aside, because no one cares if you're a libertarian or not.

 

[PantherLotus]

That would be grammar and punctuation, sir.

Agreed.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Here's an example of the echo chamber. Methos' post was worth a pot-shot, but due to numbers, he got an awful lot of replies.

No one post was over the line, but overall it comes off as a bit much. Add to it that Methos is not very good at arguing his cases, and it's a feeding frenzy. This *does* happen on PoliGAF. Methos would be better server to laugh it off, and others would be better serverd at arguing the National Language issue itself and not just poking fun.

 

[ALeperMessiah]

Grammar police :lol

I love how some of you equate a believe that people should be able to speak English in order to work in the US with using perfect grammar on message board.

I guess the internet really is serious business.

 

[BowieZ]

Uhm, so those statements don't imply that Benny is a part of the Jets. You just read it that way because you already know that Benny is a part of the Jets.

In fact, every time there is an "X and the Ys", it can ALWAYS be read as a group of X and the Ys. The same is not true, that X is a subset of Y. THEREFORE, you cannot assume that that is what it means.

I never said that X ALWAYS belongs to Y when presented in that fashion. But I've bolded the key point, which is that if you already know someone belongs to a certain group, then the assumption is allowed. The point is, I presumed you thought I was an extreme libertarian, and the way you wrote your post technically didn't have enough information to alter that assumption under reasonable estimation.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Grammar police :lol

I love how some of you equate a believe that people should be able to speak English in order to work in the US with using perfect grammar on message board.

I guess the internet really is serious business.

It was a joke, buddy.

 

[Hitokage]

Grammar police :lol

I love how some of you equate a believe that people should be able to speak English in order to work in the US with using perfect grammar on message board.

I guess the internet really is serious business.

Actually, I didn't necessarily care about his grammar, but I do think there is a substantive difference between "prosecuting illegal immigrants" and "persecuting illegal immigrants". Also with "national language" versus "official language".

As for how the hell getting paid for doing no work is analogous to being made to work for no pay, I have no idea.

 

[zoku88]

I never said that X ALWAYS belongs to Y when presented in that fashion. But I've bolded the key point, which is that if you already know someone belongs to a certain group, then the assumption is allowed. The point is, I presumed you thought I was an extreme libertarian, and the way you wrote your post technically didn't have enough information to alter that assumption under reasonable estimation.

Here's what you're doing.

You read
1. (U union Z)

and you made the statement that
2. (U is not a subset of Z)

1 has nothing to do with 2. There's no ambiguity in 1, it always means the same thing. You added ambiguity by assuming some statement from 1, ie.

3. U union Z = Z

You should have never made that assumption in the first place because there was nothing in the original statement to base it off.

 

[ALeperMessiah]

It was a joke, buddy.

Yes, jokes that don't occur when the echo-chamber agrees with a persons stance.

Also, grammar policing is the lowest form of online comedy. I know gaf can do better.

 

[PantherLotus]

Yes, jokes that don't occur when the echo-chamber agrees with a persons stance.

Also, grammar policing is the lowest form of online comedy. I know gaf can do better.

I dunno, man. Grammar policing is somewhat amusing when the person in question is suggesting that others should have some minimum standard of communicative ability. Highbrow entertainment? Perhaps not. Somewhat ironic? Definitely.

 

[mckmas8808]

1. Name one.
2. Will they suck forever?
3. Fan Hate is relevant for about 10-15 players in the entire league, and then we're talking about jersey sales and potential broken endorsements.
4. Players really don't have the choice.
5. I'm pretty sure most people understand. Millions of dollars to play for a racist boss > Less money to play for a similarly racist, less public boss.

1. Here's your answer to number 1. Trust me! Like I said players turn down bigger pay all the time.

Moss underwent a physical this morning in Foxborough. He agreed to restructure and/or extend his contract to consummate the deal. He was due base salaries of $9.25 million in 2007 and $11.25 million in 2008. The contract he agreed to with the Patriots reduced his pay for 2007 to $3 million.

"I think over the course of my career, I've made a lot of money," said Moss. "I still have money in the bank. By me coming to an organization such as the New England Patriots, why would money be a factor?"

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/04/29/patriots_acquire_moss/

2. No
3. That's the point. I never said every player in the NFL wouldn't play for a Rush owned team. I just said some.
4. Yes players do have a choice. When they become free agents they have the ultimate choice. That's why they are called free agents.
5. How is this similary racist, but less public boss? I'm curious.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Yes, jokes that don't occur when the echo-chamber agrees with a persons stance.

Also, grammar policing is the lowest form of online comedy. I know gaf can do better.

It would still happen, it just wouldnt be multiple people positng the same joke. Don't equate volume with seriousness-- it was an obvious jab and there were a lot of people who fit the profile to make it. As I said, it *was* an example of the echo chamber.

 

[BowieZ]

Here's what you're doing.

You read
1. (U union Z)

and you made the statement that
2. (U is not a subset of Z)

1 has nothing to do with 2. There's no ambiguity in 1, it always means the same thing. You added ambiguity by assuming some statement from 1, ie.

3. U union Z = Z

You should have never made that assumption in the first place because there was nothing in the original statement to base it off.

I know; I never said I assumed anything to begin with BECAUSE of your post... as I said, I had a PRIOR assumption that you thought I was an extreme libertarian. Many people in PoliGAF treat me as though I am one, or at least, treat me as though I am extremist in my beliefs (thus being called "a nutcase" and "insane" and whatnot), and as I argue from a libertarian standpoint (which is purely because of the current domination of nonlibertarian policy), it follows as an adequate assumption, in my opinion, especially since you seem to have pre-formed knowledge of my political beliefs as indicated about 15 pages back during our earlier semantics debate.

Meanwhile, OHNOES you don't care about my political perspective?! MAH LAHF IZ OVA!

 

[zoku88]

I know; I never said I assumed anything to begin with BECAUSE of your post... as I said, I had a PRIOR assumption that you thought I was an extreme libertarian. Many people in PoliGAF treat me as though I am one, or at least, treat me as though I am extremist in my beliefs (thus being called "a nutcase" and "insane" and whatnot), and as I argue from a libertarian standpoint (which is purely because of the current domination of nonlibertarian policy), it follows as an adequate assumption, in my opinion, especially since you seem to have pre-formed knowledge of my political beliefs as indicated about 15 pages back during our earlier semantics debate.

Meanwhile, OHNOES you don't care about my political perspective?! MAH LAHF IZ OVA!

Well, uhm, that pretty much says that the fault in the misunderstanding lies with your faulty assumption and not the original statement itself...

Clearly, making assumptions is not in general a good idea, but everyone can see that making an assumption based on an assumption is an even worse idea.

 

[mckmas8808]

Never suggested you said that. My argument: no player would turn down a contract simply because Rush was an owner. And you've done nothing to challenge that.

NFL players have turned contracts down for various reasons - but not for political causes.

If Snyder throws money at players, they'll come. I'm just glad my team is no longer the worst organization in the NFL

But how can you 100% know that? Look at this article.

New York Giants defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka(notes) would love to play again under Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo, who was his defensive coordinator in New York, but Kiwanuka is saying that there is no way he would go play for St. Louis if Limbaugh takes over. New York Jets linebacker Bart Scott(notes) told the paper the same thing yesterday and it seems that it may be a general sentiment for a lot of black NFL players.

"All I know is from the last comment I heard, he said in (President) Obama's America, white kids are getting beat up on the bus while black kids are chanting 'right on,'" Kiwanuka told the paper. "He can do whatever he wants; it is a free country. But if it goes through, I can tell you where I am not going to play."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/...-won-t-play-for-Rush-Limbaugh-?urn=nfl,195041

Those 2 NFL players are some of the best defensive players in the league. They have the leverage to say they won't play for the Rams due to Rush Limbaugh. You can't prove that they wouldn't have. We can only take them at their word. But keep in mind that they would have many teams offering them millions of dollars to play for a better team anyway, so it's not like it would be a hard decision for them to make.

 

[PhoenixDark]

1. Here's your answer to number 1. Trust me! Like I said players turn down bigger pay all the time.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/04/29/patriots_acquire_moss/

2. No
3. That's the point. I never said every player in the NFL wouldn't play for a Rush owned team. I just said some.
4. Yes players do have a choice. When they become free agents they have the ultimate choice. That's why they are called free agents.
5. How is this similary racist, but less public boss? I'm curious.

You haven't proven this. An old Moss taking less money for a chance to win a championship does little to prove your points.

If the Rams offered a overpay a FA they'd go, regardless of Rush's involvement - end of story. The league is dominated by money, there are no Alis in US sports today. Hell, most players won't even make a political or social stance on anything today. LeBron did which was interesting, but for the most part players care about the bottom line too much to jeopardize it. They may not be as greedy and amoral as Jordan but they're close

That's my final say on the matter

 

[mckmas8808]

You keep saying ALL THE TIME. How many can you name? Can you name any players that would actually be effected by going to work for somebody that spews racist diatribe on a daily basis?

No I can't because that situation hasn't happened yet. This was the first one and players were already stating in public that they wouldn't play for the Rams do to Rush Limbaugh.

I believe it would be your turn to prove that they were lying the whole time while making those statments. What would be their reason to lie? Why not just stay quiet?

 

[CrazedArabMan]

But then said posters wouldn't be discussing politics in this thread either.

You would be correct however, the actual question behind this is whether or not Fox is a news organization, that question can be answered without going into politics.

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't think Tillman is a good example but alright. Now find one that concerns a player turning down money to make a political stance ala Ali or Jim Brown

It's about the money the majority of the time, everyone knows that

Yes the majority of the time it is about the money. You are right. But sometimes it's about other things. Those things could include location, front office management, coaching staff, quality of the team's recent playoff history, etc.

It's not always about the money. Many players take lower pay in order to win more games or be on a team that would win more games.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I think all presidents, whether republican or democrat, attacks the media.

As for Fox News, I want them to explain the lies on "death panels" and "death books". They consistently reported on those lies a few months ago, being the armchair for the GOP's talking points.l

 

[PhoenixDark]

Yes the majority of the time it is about the money. You are right. But sometimes it's about other things. Those things could include location, front office management, coaching staff, quality of the team's recent playoff history, etc.

It's not always about the money. Many players take lower pay in order to win more games or be on a team that would win more games.

They do?

 

[mckmas8808]

You haven't proven this. An old Moss taking less money for a chance to win a championship does little to prove your points.

If the Rams offered a overpay a FA they'd go, regardless of Rush's involvement - end of story. The league is dominated by money, there are no Alis in US sports today. Hell, most players won't even make a political or social stance on anything today. LeBron did which was interesting, but for the most part players care about the bottom line too much to jeopardize it. They may not be as greedy and amoral as Jordan but they're close

That's my final say on the matter

You haven't proven this! Some players have come straight out and said they wouldn't have, so you are disagreeing with actual players that have already put themselves out there in the public (taking a political stance).

And the Randy Moss example is PERFECTLY the point. He played on a sucky team but was going to make $9.25 Million in 2007. He turned that down and decided to lose $6.25 Million in 2007 just to play for a better team (the Pats).

So if he was willing to give up 68% of his 2007 pay to play for a better team, what makes you think someone else wouldn't give up 10% of their future pay in order to not sign with the Rams when they have options (due to them being a free agent)?


And it's your final say on the matter because you know your wrong on this one. It's cool PD.