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[DeltaPolarBear]

A little off topic but I am curious as to wtf you are talking about lol. Can't say I recall any examples of Apple intentionally killing software unless you are talking about an architectural change like 32 to 64 bit? They kind of went out of their way to make Rosetta 2 to literally not brick x86 code on Apple Silicon. But what do I know, I've only been using Apple products since the Apple IIc.

I am talking about how apps from the Apple Store are inaccessable as soon as the developer fall behind in OS updates.

This is uniquely Apple, as Microsoft made it a religion to maintain compatibility with old software. Microsoft's customers depend on it.

 

[VitoNotVito]

I would worry about that when Windows is dying as an OS.

I give up. My time is too precious to waste for this nonsense.

 

[VitoNotVito]

I would worry about that when Windows is dying as an OS.

I give up. My time is too precious to waste for this nonsense.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Key words there is that it’s all about digital forward compatibility .

So probably no physical drive on the new hardware and no support for physical copies at all. Going to snag a backup XSX at some point but I am done with Xbox hardware going forward.

Soon all physical drives will be gone. Sony included. They are clearly on their way out across all industries. Stationary game consoles are the last bastion of physical media outside of vinyl somehow coming back for music.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Soon all physical drives will be gone. Sony included. They are clearly on their way out across all industries. Stationary game consoles are the last bastion of physical media outside of vinyl somehow coming back for music.

Until then I will stop testing as manifest destiny and buy physical media and consoles with disc drives. Not sure why the “instead of just going along with it if everyone bucks the trend the trend does not happen” does not crosses gamers’ mind much… or it does but it is seen as a pure fantasy…

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I support preservation and backwards compatibility.

Hear, hear!

 

[StereoVsn]

Soon all physical drives will be gone. Sony included. They are clearly on their way out across all industries. Stationary game consoles are the last bastion of physical media outside of vinyl somehow coming back for music.

SonyToo and NintendoToo? They will both have physical media option for their next devices because they also sell consoles in markets where physical media is preferred.

Unless by soon you mean day 2035-36.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Until then I will stop testing as manifest destiny and buy physical media and consoles with disc drives. Not sure why the “instead of just going along with it if everyone bucks the trend the trend does not happen” does not crosses gamers’ mind much… or it does but it is seen as a pure fantasy…

It’s just that with most people by now having ultra fast internet, the idea of buying a plastic disc and putting it in a tray and waiting for it to install and not even being the whole game more often than not, not to mention missing all the patches after the disc was pressed that are mandatory in order to play the game, that whole thing is just so cumbersome and outdated.

Back when there were no patches and games were the same on launch day as they were 5 years later, and there were no hard drives, or internet, etc, then physical media was needed. It’s just not needed anymore. And even owning a physical game disc anymore guarantees you exactly nothing, regardless of platform. At best you own a plastic disc that requires the internet to verify all of your disc-less data in order to play the same updated version as everyone else.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

SonyToo and NintendoToo? They will both have physical media option for their next devices because they also sell consoles in markets where physical media is preferred.

Unless by soon you mean day 2035-36.

Yeah… it’ll definitely be mostly gone long before then. It’s already happening. Nintendo uses physical media only because they don’t use optical discs. Make no mistake they make far more money on digital downloads and prefer people not buy physical media vs digital. Same as Xbox/Sony.

By 2035 the best you could hope for with any console is the option to buy an expensive optical drive that attaches via USB. And by then it’ll be so uncommon to find physical copies of games that you’ll struggle to find anything to put in it outside of 4K UHD movies.

 

[adamsapple]

I support preservation and backwards compatibility.

 

[StereoVsn]

Yeah… it’ll definitely be mostly gone long before then. It’s already happening. Nintendo uses physical media only because they don’t use optical discs. Make no mistake they make far more money on digital downloads and prefer people not buy physical media vs digital. Same as Xbox/Sony.

By 2035 the best you could hope for with any console is the option to buy an expensive optical drive that attaches via USB.

Again, Nintendo and Sony will have physical media capability on their next set of consoles. Generation after next is not “soon” and even then I could see Nintendo at least have physical media options.

 

[Panajev2001a]

that whole thing is just so cumbersome and outdated.

Lots of people do not have that fast ultra high speed internet and little idea of what is cumbersome IMHO. Outdated is well flatly wrong IMHO and pushed by want to be modernists and the companies themselves who love the idea of the control they have over you in a digital only future .

Oh sorry Adam, by corporate apologists wanting an All Adorably Digital console . I am trying to be more inclusive, but I forgot one group…

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Lots of people do not have that fast ultra high speed internet and little idea of what is cumbersome IMHO. Outdated is well flatly wrong IMHO and pushed by want to be modernists and the companies themselves who love the idea of the control they have over you in a digital only future .

What about the process on current-gen consoles is not cumbersome? Having to keep the disc in the tray when you’re playing it even though the system’s not even using it? Lol

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Again, Nintendo and Sony will have physical media capability on their next set of consoles. Generation after next is not “soon” and even then I could see Nintendo at least have physical media options.

Next-gen Sony will follow wherever the data in the market leads them. Same as everyone else. It will allow for physical media same as a next Xbox will, in that it’s far more likely the consoles won’t have physical drives at all, and you’ll have to buy an attachment. But we’ll see in 5 years where they land. The writing’s already on the wall, just look where the current models are heading.

 

[StereoVsn]

Next-gen Sony will follow wherever the data in the market leads them. Same as everyone else. It will allow for physical media same as a next Xbox will, in that it’s far more likely the consoles won’t have physical drives at all, and you’ll have to buy an attachment. But we’ll see in 5 years where they land. The writing’s already on the wall, just look where the current models are heading.

Same as everyone else? Who is everyone, Microsoft? Nintendo will have physical media, and there is no indication whatsoever that Sony will not have physical media in the next console.

Data shows that Sony’s major titles actually sell quite a bit on physical (there have been recent threads on the topic), especially outside NA/UK.

So again, you are pulling this notion of death of physical media out of nowhere. It’s basically SonyToo.

 

[Topher]

Next-gen Sony will follow wherever the data in the market leads them. Same as everyone else. It will allow for physical media same as a next Xbox will, in that it’s far more likely the consoles won’t have physical drives at all, and you’ll have to buy an attachment. But we’ll see in 5 years where they land. The writing’s already on the wall, just look where the current models are heading.

Clearly Sony and Nintendo have much more incentive than Microsoft to include a physical drive. Xbox is the odd man out in that regard due to poor physical sales.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Clearly Sony and Nintendo have much more incentive than Microsoft to include a physical drive. Xbox is the odd man out in that regard due to poor physical sales.

It’s trending down for all of them, no doubt. And they’re slowly over time being de-emphasized. And especially with newer/younger users, the concept of having to put a disc in a drive is antiquated.

 

[Topher]

It’s trending down for all of them, no doubt. And they’re slowly over time being de-emphasized. And especially newer/younger users, the concept of having to put a disc in is antiquated.

That's fine, but fact is Xbox is getting there much faster than Sony/Nintendo.

 

[gaming_again]

Consoles are sold globally and a lot of the globe doesn't enjoy North American internet standards.

 

[Panajev2001a]

What about the process on current-gen consoles is not cumbersome? Having to keep the disc in the tray when you’re playing it even though the system’s not even using it? Lol

Oh no, I may even have to get up from the couch to change game from time to time, the horror.
What is with the “not as convenient (will pay for it in other ways, companies will not give you convenience for free )” being branded as “cumbersome”?

 

[djjinx2]

Hhmmmmmm

 

[sachos]

Only way i see them making the biggest generational jump is either going for full luxury 1k USD consoles or going heavy on AI+RT hardware, good enough to feature pathtracing in every game. Im talking DLSS 4+ levels of good. Or a combination of both.

One thing i want to see being explored in games is using neural reconstruction to not just generate frames but also maybe upscale low resolution textures/assets to 4K without the user really noticing the difference.

 

[mckmas8808]

Hhmmmmmm

What is happening here?

 

[djjinx2]

What is happening here?

Just the talk of new hardware and ARM mentioned. Perhaps if there is a new handheld it runs on something like this

 

[bitbydeath]

It’s trending down for all of them, no doubt. And they’re slowly over time being de-emphasized. And especially with newer/younger users, the concept of having to put a disc in a drive is antiquated.

You realise that Sony is one of the main creators of physical media? Moving on from Blu-ray could mean creating a new medium.

 

[Sony]

I'm reading a lot of thoughts that this is mostly because of an architecture change of the next Xbox to ARM.

My very simplified outdated idea of ARM is 'weak mobile CPU'. Has ARM developed in a way to be able to compete with x86?

 

[djjinx2]

I'm reading a lot of thoughts that this is mostly because of an architecture change of the next Xbox to ARM.

My very simplified outdated idea of ARM is 'weak mobile CPU'. Has ARM developed in a way to be able to compete with x86?

Qualcomm has come a long way, a handheld could use some sort of ARM chip definitely.

This is Control at 1080P no RTX though.

Snapdragon Elite X I believe.

A streaming box and/or handheld could use this for sure.

A full on next gen console no chance though. However Nvidia maybe an option

 

[Negotiator101]

Qualcomm has come a long way, a handheld could use some sort of ARM chip definitely.

This is Control at 1080P no RTX though.

Snapdragon Elite X I believe.

A streaming box and/or handheld could use this for sure.

A full on next gen console no chance though. However Nvidia maybe an option

What about in 2026?

 

[djjinx2]

What about in 2026?

Qualcomm have made huge strides in GPU and CPU power so maybe.

They are looking to move into the PC CPU area I'm sure I have read

 

[Topher]

I'm reading a lot of thoughts that this is mostly because of an architecture change of the next Xbox to ARM.

My very simplified outdated idea of ARM is 'weak mobile CPU'. Has ARM developed in a way to be able to compete with x86?

One of the things that struck me about this email is stressing the importance of forward and backward compatibility. For BC with X1 and XS, there really isn't much to talk about if Xbox is remaining with x86. Compatibility with those systems would be a given. Not so much the case if we are talking about ARM. Now this very well could just be corpo speak where these folks pat themselves on the back for every little thing they do in emails, but buzz around Xbox and ARM has been a thing of late so who knows?

 

[LordBritish]

Just make em work on my handheld Xbox Jr...

 

[djjinx2]

Just make em work on my handheld Xbox Jr...

*XCloud compatible

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

One of the things that struck me about this email is stressing the importance of forward and backward compatibility. For BC with X1 and XS, there really isn't much to talk about if Xbox is remaining with x86. Compatibility with those systems would be a given. Not so much the case if we are talking about ARM. Now this very well could just be corpo speak where these folks pat themselves on the back for every little thing they do in emails, but buzz around Xbox and ARM has been a thing of late so who knows?

The focus on forward compatability only makes sense if Xbox isn't making new hardware anymore. Because if they WERE making the NextBox, backwards compatability would be assume. Worry about forward compatability sound like they have no future control of hardware.

 

[Topher]

The focus on forward compatability only makes sense if Xbox isn't making new hardware anymore. Because if they WERE making the NextBox, backwards compatability would be assume. Worry about forward compatability sound like they have no future control of hardware.

You can't assume backwards/forward compatibility. Look at 360/PS3 to X1/PS4. The change of architectures negated BC for PS3 and only made it available for X1 well after launch and even then, it was years in progress. None of that had anything to do with relinquishing control of the hardware so your statement that it "only makes sense if Xbox isn't making new hardware" isn't true. And even if MS gives Xbox manufacturing to OEMS, that doesn't mean Microsoft has no control.

 

[PatientGamer]

But will they make any games that are actually enjoyable to play? We've been waiting about 15 years now lol.

 

[djjinx2]

But will they make any games that are actually enjoyable to play? We've been waiting about 15 years now lol.

Good job your patient, gamer

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

You realise that Sony is one of the main creators of physical media? Moving on from Blu-ray could mean creating a new medium.

Everyone knows that, but that’s sort of irrelevant. The issue is that there is a rapidly shrinking market for physical media. Best Buy and Walmart in particular are pulling nearly all physical media from their brick-and-mortar.

And there’s already a successor to Blu-ray, it’s called 4K UHD. And how many copies of movies in that format do you see at retail? Compared to DVDs and Blu-Rays just 5 years ago. Streaming has decimated the market for physical media.

 

[King Dazzar]

Everyone knows that, but that’s sort of irrelevant. The issue is that there is a rapidly shrinking market for physical media. Best Buy and Walmart in particular are pulling nearly all physical media from their brick-and-mortar.

And there’s already a successor to Blu-ray, it’s called 4K UHD. And how many copies of movies in that format do you see at retail? Compared to DVDs and Blu-Rays just 5 years ago. Streaming has decimated the market for physical media.

I dont disgree. But how much future is there in brick n mortar full stop. Let alone a place to buy physical media. Many people buy physical media online these days, as with many products. I dont see physical media dying out for many years yet. Even if it is a smaller market.

 

[Topher]

Everyone knows that, but that’s sort of irrelevant. The issue is that there is a rapidly shrinking market for physical media. Best Buy and Walmart in particular are pulling nearly all physical media from their brick-and-mortar.

And there’s already a successor to Blu-ray, it’s called 4K UHD. And how many copies of movies in that format do you see at retail? Compared to DVDs and Blu-Rays just 5 years ago. Streaming has decimated the market for physical media.

I wouldn't say it is "rapidly shrinking" except on the Xbox side. Reports from Walmart and other retailers have been explicitly about not carrying Xbox games.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Everyone knows that, but that’s sort of irrelevant. The issue is that there is a rapidly shrinking market for physical media. Best Buy and Walmart in particular are pulling nearly all physical media from their brick-and-mortar.

And there’s already a successor to Blu-ray, it’s called 4K UHD. And how many copies of movies in that format do you see at retail? Compared to DVDs and Blu-Rays just 5 years ago. Streaming has decimated the market for physical media.

A Best Buy I went to near my bro's house has hardly any games. But amazingly, lots of headsets and peripheral stuff. Gaming isn't just affected. They converted a portion of the store to be permanent online warehousing. The entire outer perimeter of the store is now racks of product like it's a warehouse. Really weird. I wonder how many BB's are like that.

 

[Syphon Filter]

they dont really care about preservation because bc requires an internet connection currently on series x. that is the opposite of preservation.

 

[Frwrd]

"…we remain committed to bringing forward the amazing library of Xbox games for future generations of players to enjoy."

 

[SportsFan581]

One of the things that struck me about this email is stressing the importance of forward and backward compatibility. For BC with X1 and XS, there really isn't much to talk about if Xbox is remaining with x86. Compatibility with those systems would be a given. Not so much the case if we are talking about ARM. Now this very well could just be corpo speak where these folks pat themselves on the back for every little thing they do in emails, but buzz around Xbox and ARM has been a thing of late so who knows?

I suspect it isn't just about the CPU but also about broad GPU support (Nvidia, Intel and AMD) along with supporting both ARM and X86.

 

[m14]

Sony knew that. From the beginning, the plan was to have BC for every console going forward.

Then PS3 crashed and burned. The issue is that the Cell is an abandoned technology, so there is no "cheaper alternative" to upgrade to. Even the streaming service has actual PS3 Cell chips in them to run PS3 games. You can't have PS3 compatibility without using an expensive custom chip that no one else uses. Not even Sony managed to truly emulate it in modern hardware. So the original plan to build the "ultimate console" that contained the ability to run every previous gen games was halted.

That doesn't mean the plan died for Sony, it was just rebooted. PS4 is the new baseline and they are going to carry the compatibility forward again.

None of which explains why they chose to ditch PS1/PS2 backwards compatibility as well.

 

[Dorfdad]

Yes it is, quite different

Reading these quotes we see they state they are working on and committed to bring the largest technical leap of hardware ever to the next Xbox.

So this doesn’t sit well with the portable rumors as there is no way the make that technical leap on a handheld, unless it’s a docked eGPU solution.

So more likely we get a new Xbox PC with a ryzen 5 chip 16gb ram / and some Frankenstein GPU that uses AI and FSR to make 1080p content look and run at 4k/60/120 with ray tracing. The system would have to have a new OS that’s allows pc / Xbox titles work seamless with m/k and controller.

This would benefit Sony users also as most games would be developed with both controller and m/k support. So I can see Sony ps6 merging with Linux or steam is locked down some to counter.

Both systems are moving towards hybrid PC’s and gaming consoles going forward IMHO.