Sushi_Combo
Member
The holy trinity Phillip,Matt & Aaron. They keep failing upward!I ask myself this same question every single day I log onto GAF and see the words Xbox anywhere in any thread title or post.
Every. Fucking. Day
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Xbox + Microsoft FY24 Q3 Results: Total Gaming +51%, Content and Services +62% Hardware -31%
Hawking Radiation
Member
Varteras
Member
I'll be very surprised if we don't see at least a couple studio closures or spinoffs, like Toys For Bob, before this gen is over. Do you think they're largely just gonna focus their business around a handful of evergreen franchises? Like just have Forza, Halo, Minecraft, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Warcraft, and Call of Duty? Most games revolving around them? I mean, I don't think that would be terribly surprising, considering recent trends where a small number of franchises make up a disproportionate percentage of playtime. I couldn't even really blame them for going that route.
Hawking Radiation
Member
Varteras
Member
A normal person: They'd put a redemption ticket in the box for an Xbox.
My dumbass: ...but ...that cereal box would be HUGE! Do they wrap the Xbox up and just stick it right in the cereal??
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
That does matter when you're comparing it to last year's numbers.
thismeinteil
Member
Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but they already started to give up. They just released 4 games on their #1 rival's platform, with it sounding like more are to follow. Xbox will survive as a 3rd party, but they are done when it comes to HW. If they were smart they'd just go ahead and rip off the band-aid, instead of this wishy-washy approach.
And if they release this rumored "too soon" console, they're just going to look like fools burning money. But, hey, maybe after losing 4 gens in a row, the next one has got to be the one? Right?
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Depends on if they give up on the GamePass dream.
Varteras
Member
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
Id be fine with this if they'd be willing to sell off IP they aren't using
They seem particularly stingy trying to keep their hands on the IP though
Hawking Radiation
Member
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Ms has been publishing games on ps5 for years (minecraft ring a bell?). They decided to port some older less popular games to ps5.
What exactly makes you think they have given up on hardware? The announcements that they are working on hardware? The unwavering support of hardware of the parent company over the past 20 years? Or perhaps it's the 70 billion they just spend on another company that makes games?
I will give you that conventional logic might lead you to the abandonment of hardware, bit every single thing ms has done in the past really points to changing strategy on hardware vs abandoning it. So maybe it will be a portable, or some sort of Uber xbox, but it's not likely over.
There is even a scenario where ms releases new hardware and also releases games on all platforms.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Xbox hardware continues to dry up.
They will announce more and bigger titles for ps5 and switch and hardware will dry up even further.
Eventually they'll do day 1 on PS5 and switch and the hardware will probably cease production much earlier than the end of the generation.
I'll concede that it doesn't mean there won't be new hardware, but it's key to understand that it won't be your traditional system. More likely something for 800-1000 dollars. High end and geared towards people who want to stay in the xbox ecosystem. It'll probably be a prebuilt PC with xbox branding and running an xbox game store.
rhodesianshepard
Banned
I think Microsoft still sees a bright future in gaming. They just need either AI or cloud streaming to takeoff. If either one does takeoff, the gaming landscape would radically change for the better
Humdinger
Gold Member
That Nadella quote was something.
He's boasting about sending their "fan favorites" to Playstation and Nintendo, and about how lucrative that is. There is no attempt to tip toe around Xbox fans there. He doesn't even refer to Xbox, just to MS as a publisher. He also uses the word "finally," signaling that he has been eagerly anticipating this for some time.
I wonder how many people are still in doubt that MS intends to send most of their exclusives to Playstation and Nintendo, eventually. Personally, I see it as a done deal, although I am still waiting for announcement of a big recent AAA release (e.g. Starfield, Indy) going multiplatform.
He's boasting about sending their "fan favorites" to Playstation and Nintendo, and about how lucrative that is. There is no attempt to tip toe around Xbox fans there. He doesn't even refer to Xbox, just to MS as a publisher. He also uses the word "finally," signaling that he has been eagerly anticipating this for some time.
I wonder how many people are still in doubt that MS intends to send most of their exclusives to Playstation and Nintendo, eventually. Personally, I see it as a done deal, although I am still waiting for announcement of a big recent AAA release (e.g. Starfield, Indy) going multiplatform.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
This is an accurate assessment with one exception.
I would say it wasn't just that he was eagerly anticipating this, but that he has been pushing for this for some time and he is just starting to get his way.
After Hellblade 2 comes out, I think the bandages might come off. Either that or they'll try to get one more holiday season out of Xbox Series.
I could see Starfield and Halo MCC on PS5 by the end of Q4 though.
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
Idk if anyone cares about Starfield anymore but yeah maybe Indy and cod. Honestly I have no interest in the Ms games aside from future doom and ES
ChorizoPicozo
Member
My first thought when I was thinking on it was Nadella saying:
"Are you telling me that I need to spend 300M and six years to sell 20M copies at best, when we already have a bunch of games with massive MAU and recurring revenue in the market?"
We are aware of how MS´s contract policies have negatively impacted Halo and Forza....MS is not an entertainment company, if they were not committed to the medium/industry when they had the imperative to do so back in the Xbox One era (when they needed to sell consoles by marketing new and exciting high-quality games), what imperative do they have now when they have systematically destroyed its own brand and console business?
That is one aspect. The other aspect is the historic mismanagements inside Xbox. That cluster fuck is still going to happen in the next 4 years. People are already leaving, power vacuums, internal turmoil, A.I. integration and unionization are going to be factors of ongoing distress inside the entire division
so, when you look at other big third-party publishers, they aren't doing so well financially. That's why they rely heavily on GaaS and established IPs...and when you look at Sony doing the same (despite making a lot revenue thanks to the 30% cut) that should tell you how prohibited game development has become for big companies (money and time-wise). Xbox is against the rope. Their super strategy didn't pan out and now they are desperately trying to make money...I don't think MS will have the patience and leniency for AAA creativity and experimentation.
This is why I am very curious about how HellBlade 2 is going to pan out. Because it already shows complete mismanagement/lack of urgency from Xbox. I´m feeling strong 7/10 vibes from it.
when we consider those big/legendary acquired IPs.
Overwatch.
WoW.
Diablo.
CoD
Fallout
Doom
Elder Scrolls
and even Minecraft...
Fans of those IP don't give a flying fuck about Xbox as a brand or console and those IP are already successful outside the Xbox ecosystem...basically, the entire universe is telling MS to kill Xbox console and even the brand. 2/3 of that division has been historically third-party and the weakest link is Xbox ...But they are the parent company = Internal politics hellhole at the executive level.
This is a long answer because the outcome of
and
It's the result of a failed strategy.
If nothing changes in the next 4 years that would be the outcome, but it is clear that Xbox (Phil, Bond team?) is trying to figure out a way to not give up the console market segment. This why I say that Xbox is so fucked up, because the dilemma in which they are is so contradictory.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
The Xbox series consoles has been dead for a while, that is why they started porting games to PS5.
Xbox won’t admit this but it’s pretty obvious, they will see a boast when GTA 6 releases but I honestly think Xbox is done and Game Pass will be the main focus for the future.
Xbox won’t admit this but it’s pretty obvious, they will see a boast when GTA 6 releases but I honestly think Xbox is done and Game Pass will be the main focus for the future.
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Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
If they start putting out big games on switch and/or PS5 I just don't see how you put the genie back in the bottle.
People already have the attitude of "I'll wait for it to come to PC" with PS titles. Think of that on a much larger scale if people start thinking "I'll wait for it to come to my console"
rhodesianshepard
Banned
I am betting that after COD releases this Fall, with minimal changes in GP subs/consoles sold, that the floodgates will open. That would allow Phil Spencer to save some face and say they at least tried to their hardcore userbase
But I'm guessing other ports are already now in development
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rm082e
Member
It's already started - Toys for Bob went independent in February. Sounds like Microsoft will publish their next game though.
GHG
Member
You're lost.
To quote you again this is what you said:
At only 800k units sold last quarter it is evident that only a small portion of gamers really want Xbox hardware anymore. In fact, that means less gamers want Xbox hardware than they do VR headsets at the moment.
So again, if you want to justify them not getting involved in VR on the basis that "only a small portion of gamers want it" along with the fact that it would lose them money, then why do you continue to justify them getting involved in console hardware when the same things are true in that area?
And FWIW meta just reported hardware unit sales growth and they are forecasting hardware unit sales growth for next quarter as well. The opposite is true for Xbox hardware, on both counts.
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Bumblebeetuna
Member
He said finally because it was the fourth or fifth (and final) gaming point he hit on
LordCBH
Member
This is what will happen. But if they don’t have a killer app ready to go for the holiday season, then they’re in even bigger trouble. And I don’t think Indiana Jones is that killer app. Even if it’s good, I don’t think it gets much attention from the general public.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
So you think ms turning thier back on tiny market that is losing money hand over fist, is akin to reduced hardware sales in a huge market where they have had traditional sales in the millions of units? Even in this massive failure scenario they sold 30 million units.
A vr unit would have sold like 500k units. (Look no further than psvr2 and it's user base is larger)
I'll take declining sales in the millions over increasing sales in the 10's of thousands.
Your argument is flawed.
Shakka43
Member
So that's a No then...
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Yonyx
Banned
Where do you get the figure of 59.5 million Xbox One from? I thought the semi-official number was 58 million.
Why people in this forum always seems so happy with negative Xbox news? It's because they don't want to buy another console so they can have everything on their platform? It's because they don't want choice? It's just conservatism? I have seem people here celebrating even when a game get low metacritic score. It shouldn't be the opposite? After all, this is a gaming forum.
Xbox has a very good piece of hardware, offer choices in the way you play and pay and also lowered the barrier to access games. It still ships a variety of good and different games, which are being successful sold on Playstation and Switch. So, It seems childish to me to celebrate the fall or end of a competitor in such a limited, difficult and expensive Industry. I can only imagine the outcome with two console markers.
And by the way, Nadela is doing what he did in all the other divisions and he might know what's he is doing being the leader of the largest company in the world.
Xbox has a very good piece of hardware, offer choices in the way you play and pay and also lowered the barrier to access games. It still ships a variety of good and different games, which are being successful sold on Playstation and Switch. So, It seems childish to me to celebrate the fall or end of a competitor in such a limited, difficult and expensive Industry. I can only imagine the outcome with two console markers.
And by the way, Nadela is doing what he did in all the other divisions and he might know what's he is doing being the leader of the largest company in the world.
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{Gif collected }
Fess
Member
That is the future of all gaming.
Book it.
But Microsoft are doing this too early, with no platform hype and a gaming community that can’t see a future in it, streaming tech and internet infrastructure isn’t good enough yet and there is no hardware advancement over what you can have a home. And Microsoft’s own cloud gaming service is of the lowest quality and with a small library compared to the competition and that’s what they need to use for legacy gaming.
Topher
Identifies as young
What is it Nadella is doing again?
GHG
Member
Xbox have sold 24-25 million units, and the rate at which they are slowing they will be lucky to end up with 30 million lifetime.
I don't know what PSVR has to do with this scenario, I'm not suggesting for one second that they create a VR headset and then tether it to a dying console platform. Even when they were heavily involved in the space on the consumer side with WMR they weren't foolish enough to tether it to only Xbox hardware, in fact they never even bothered to make the platform compatible with Xbox at all.
Here's the situation over at Meta:
Quest sales have been outpacing Xbox sales since 2022 (must mean Xbox is also a "tiny market" then huh?):
Looks like the Oculus Quest 2 is still selling better than the Xbox
VR continues to grow at an exponential rate.
www.androidcentral.com
20 million quests sold as of this time last year:
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23951354/STK043_VRG_Illo_N_Barclay_2_Meta.jpg)
Meta plans to sell first AR glasses in 2027 with ‘neural’ smartwatch
During an internal presentation, Meta execs laid out plans for AR glasses in 2027, a ‘neural interface’ smartwatch, and three new Quest VR headsets.
www.theverge.com
~1.8 million quests sold in Q4 2023:
Quest 3 Sold an Estimated 900K-1.5 Million Units in Q4 2023 Launch -- With Quest 2 Finally Gaining a 20M+ Install Base.
Meta just reported that its XR division Reality Labs earned $1.07 billion in Q4 2023 for sales of its new Quest 3 headset ($499), along with its Quest 2 ($299), Ray-Ban "smart" glasses, and revenue from its Quest store. So...
nwn.blogs.com
The situation now is that the quest 2 alone has sold well over 20 million units which means that total quest 2 sales won't be far off the lifetime Xbox series sales. With the respective sales trajectories, total quest unit sales will likely surpass Xbox series unit sales by the end of the year if they haven't already.
The PSVR model is the worst way to do VR (I've stated this many times before) and they are now taking steps to rectify that. That's not what I'd suggest Microsoft would and should so if they were to get involved in the VR space again.
How do you go from "microsoft shouldn't get involved in VR because money" to "Xbox hardware should continue regardless of money"? It doesn't make any sense, especially so given the data we have available.
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Bernardougf
Member
I think that the way games are stagnating the line between cross gen / next gen will become thinner every gen ...to the point that eventually we dont even have next gen only games that much.. or only really at the end of the generation ... tales from my ass of course.. but well... it seems the industry is moving this way.
If I have to guess.. and only guess.. I think MS will try to position this new console as the better machine to play multiplats, Is the best they can try to do in my opinion.
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Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
Why are people surprised by the 30% drop in hardware?
People still had hope it isn't that bad? Lol
People still had hope it isn't that bad? Lol
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
New Data Suggests That PS5 Has Outsold Xbox Series X/S 2-to-1 - IGN
Sony’s PlayStation 5 has sold around double the number of units as the Xbox Series X | S, according to data shared in a recent Take-Two Interactive earnings report.
"Microsoft usually keeps its numbers under wraps, but with Take-Two’s information in mind, we can estimate that Xbox Series X | S sales sit at around 27 million units sold."
That's from Feb, it's end of April, like I said, close to 30 million.
Your the one quoting me as to why ms would not want a vr add on. This is why.
Here's the situation over at Meta:
Quest sales have been outpacing Xbox sales since 2022 (must mean Xbox is also a "tiny market" then huh?):
Looks like the Oculus Quest 2 is still selling better than the Xbox
VR continues to grow at an exponential rate.
20 million quests sold as of this time last year:
Meta plans to sell first AR glasses in 2027 with ‘neural’ smartwatch
During an internal presentation, Meta execs laid out plans for AR glasses in 2027, a ‘neural interface’ smartwatch, and three new Quest VR headsets.
~1.8 million quests sold in Q4 2023:
Quest 3 Sold an Estimated 900K-1.5 Million Units in Q4 2023 Launch -- With Quest 2 Finally Gaining a 20M+ Install Base.
Meta just reported that its XR division Reality Labs earned $1.07 billion in Q4 2023 for sales of its new Quest 3 headset ($499), along with its Quest 2 ($299), Ray-Ban "smart" glasses, and revenue from its Quest store. So...nwn.blogs.com
The situation now is that the quest 2 alone has sold well over 20 million units which means that total quest 2 sales won't be far off the lifetime Xbox series sales. With the respective sales trajectories, total quest unit sales will likely surpass Xbox series unit sales by the end of the year if they haven't already.
The PSVR model is the worst way to do VR (I've stated this many times before) and they are now taking steps to rectify that. That's not what I'd suggest Microsoft would and should so if they were to get involved in the VR space again.
How do you go from "microsoft shouldn't get involved in VR because money" to "Xbox hardware should continue regardless of money"? It doesn't make any sense, especially so given the data we have available.
Why would anyone care how many huge loss leading quest 2 units were sold, meta had massive losses in the billions and an attach rate of on 2 or 3 lower priced games. Ms could care less. Based on the data we have available, vr is a nightmare. 16 billion dollars they lost in one year!
The leader in vr loses money, the console leader can't sell thier add on, and your on me for saying it's a waste of time and money vs chasing traditional console sales with attach rates at 7-9 full games and huge add on sales and broader appeal?
drganon
Member
# SonyNintendoToo
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
3.5 million systems in a year in a consoles 4th year is shockingly bad.
It'd like many have said, there is just no reason to own an Xbox console unless you are invested in their eco system and that number drops each year.
They definitely need to open the platform up in my opinion and treat the series x as an entry level pc. That might increase hardware sales but won't help store sales of individual titles too much. It may help drive subscription sales though.
It'd like many have said, there is just no reason to own an Xbox console unless you are invested in their eco system and that number drops each year.
They definitely need to open the platform up in my opinion and treat the series x as an entry level pc. That might increase hardware sales but won't help store sales of individual titles too much. It may help drive subscription sales though.
GHG
Member
New Data Suggests That PS5 Has Outsold Xbox Series X/S 2-to-1 - IGN
Sony’s PlayStation 5 has sold around double the number of units as the Xbox Series X | S, according to data shared in a recent Take-Two Interactive earnings report.www.ign.com
"Microsoft usually keeps its numbers under wraps, but with Take-Two’s information in mind, we can estimate that Xbox Series X | S sales sit at around 27 million units sold."
That's from Feb, it's end of April, like I said, close to 30 million.
The math isn't mathing here. Even if we assume 27 million as of February, where are you getting the extra 3 million between then and now?
Why shouldn't we care how many units they sell? Selling consoles is also a loss leading strategy by nature and VR is no different. The more units in consumer's hands the better.
Sony spend anywhere between $3-5 billion USD a year on R&D, the only reason we don't get the R&D numbers for Xbox is because Microsoft hide them but it will likely be in a similar region. Hardware is R&D intensive by nature. Absent of a ~$75 billion dollar acquisition the Xbox division would also be making a loss right now. "Nightmare!"
So with that in mind it makes no sense to worry about how much others are spending in order to develop their platforms (and the VR medium in general).
But if I were to take your stance on this I could simply say "don't worry about how much Meta are spending, they can easily afford it". Funny how that works huh?
Also "ms could care less"? Are you talking on behalf of yourself here and your own interests or Microsoft's? Because when it comes to VR you seem to be concerned about Microsoft's interests and any financial impact, but when it comes to their console business and Xbox in general you only care about your own interests and you're quick to disregard the financial implications of what's happening at the moment.
That's the thing, if we are to take your "tiny market" statement with regard to VR in to account then xbox consoles don't have "broad appeal" and haven't done for a long while now.
It's hilarious how quickly you want to flip from "but there's no money and it costs too much" to "the money doesn't matter, they can afford it" dependant on which way the wind blows. If Microsoft are involved in it then CapEx is perfectly fine, but if they aren't then CapEx should be avoided. Crazy.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
lol, no I'm not specifically mocking you. I don't know if you said the $2,000 thing or not, but I've seen multiple comments like that.
None of them makes sense, though, and just sound like feeble attempts of damage control.
demigod
Member
Are you trying to take the worst math crown from Streetsofbeige?New Data Suggests That PS5 Has Outsold Xbox Series X/S 2-to-1 - IGN
Sony’s PlayStation 5 has sold around double the number of units as the Xbox Series X | S, according to data shared in a recent Take-Two Interactive earnings report.
"Microsoft usually keeps its numbers under wraps, but with Take-Two’s information in mind, we can estimate that Xbox Series X | S sales sit at around 27 million units sold."
That's from Feb, it's end of April, like I said, close to 30 million.
Your the one quoting me as to why ms would not want a vr add on. This is why.
Why would anyone care how many huge loss leading quest 2 units were sold, meta had massive losses in the billions and an attach rate of on 2 or 3 lower priced games. Ms could care less. Based on the data we have available, vr is a nightmare. 16 billion dollars they lost in one year!
The leader in vr loses money, the console leader can't sell thier add on, and your on me for saying it's a waste of time and money vs chasing traditional console sales with attach rates at 7-9 full games and huge add on sales and broader appeal?
GHG
Member
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Ok let me simplify this for you. Meta lost 16 billion in 2023. Sony made 6 billion, Nintendo made 3 Billion. You have deep pockets. Regardless of your loses this year, which market would you chase? Yes both are loss leading, but one is currently loss stupidity, the other generally makes money.
You keep trying to twist my stance on why vr is avoided into something it's not.