Honestly can't see me ever buying another xbox, but that isn't to say I won't enjoy some of their eco system, every xbox I have bought has lasted me 6 months where I have had to make a decision on where I play most and that has always been PS and PC. I bought a 360, 360 elite, xbox one x and a series X and none of them have lasted me more than 6 moths. I think the series X would have had legs had I not had gamepass on PC but I do and so it was sold on.
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Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)
- Thread starter MisterXDTV
- Start date
- Rumor Platform
Mownoc
Member
Nothing in these slides is related to a potential new Xbox in 2025/2026. As of these slides being created they were still planning a 2028 release. So if they really have changed from 2028 to 2025/2026 then they certainly won't still have the same hardware goals as it'd be unfeasible to release the same product 2-3 years earlier. Personally I don't see them releasing a new generation that early.The next Xbox is rumored to release 2025-2026.
Physiognomonics
Member
You don't like the subject so you talk about something else? Nicely done. Apples and oranges here. Next-gen is another problem altogether and it will be done differently by Cerny and his team. There will be more grunt power to tackle the background compatibility issues (like from Jaguar to Zen 2) and they'll poor more ressources into the problem, unlike for PS5 Pro. Besides for PS5 Pro they don't need a much faster CPU to reach their performance goals.So we're getting Zen2 on PS6 then, that sucks.
Loxus
Member
You think Microsoft is going to say when the next Xbox will drop?Nothing in these slides is related to a potential new Xbox in 2025/2026. As of these slides being created they were still planning a 2028 release. So if they really have changed from 2028 to 2025/2026 then they certainly won't still have the same hardware goals as it'd be unfeasible to release the same product 2-3 years earlier. Personally I don't see them releasing a new generation that early.
That's why I added the post of a known GPU leaker.
EnergyStar
Neo Member
Loxus
Member
You talk about patches and all that shit but forgot the PS6 is going to use a whole different CPU family different from Zen.
Imagine developers patching thousands of PS4 and PS5 games by your logic.
Mownoc
Member
If you're implying that the slide I posted isn't legitimate, it's literally from the same place as the slide you posted. It is an official Microsoft document coming from the FTC case. So yes MS did say when the next Xbox will drop. Plans can change but as of 2022 the plan was to launch the next generation in 2028. The source is MS themselves.
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saintjules
Member
Physiognomonics
Member
Why are you mixing PS5 Pro and PS6 then? PS6 will be when a much more powerful CPU would be needed. PS5 Pro is playing PS5 games at the same framerate with either a higher resolution or better image fidelity (better RT). This is how Sony designed PS4 Pro and this is very likely how they are designing PS5 Pro.
This is YOU who is talking about PS6 CPU in the PS5 pro CPU discussion. for PS4 to PS5 this is Sony who have done the leg work to make it work for 99.99% of games, notice that it's not even 100% by the way and some games still needed to be patched by the developers. This shows how ignorant really you are about the whole thing.
Why do you think even Microsoft, the kind of BC, have put a crappy Jaguar into their Xbox One X when they could have used Zen 1? Compatibility issues. But why have they used Zen 2 into their Xbox Series then by your own logic they shouldn't have done so.
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MisterXDTV
Member
Exactly! Considering that, by definition, PS5 Pro will NEVER have any exclusive software, it doesn't make any sense to make it more powerful than it needs to be to run PS5 games at a great quality/performance level...
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EnergyStar
Neo Member
It’s from Jim’s party: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/sony...d-ps5-and-dualsense-as-a-parting-gift.1664382
But I am using it to thank Jim for that he let PS5 Pro happen.
Jaguar Victory
Member
The most interesting part in all of this is how things shake out if Sony releases a mid gen refresh in 2024 and XBOX drops new gen in 2026. Would XBOX get a jump start or would Sony coast on PS5Pro for graphics whores until PS6 2 years after XBOX? Have we ever had a 2 year gap in generations? I feel like they've both been too scared to diverge too much.
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Loxus
Member
I don't know why you're sticking with the idea that using Zen 4 would cause problems when playing PS4 and PS5 games.
No one said that would be an issue.
The reason is because Zen4c wasn't ready on time when the PS5 Pro chip was being designed, meaning PS5 Pro chip design was finished earlier this year.
Loxus
Member
It's not about exclusive software, it's about having enough horse power to double framerate and resolution.
Higher clocked Zen2 may not be enough to get the job done.
You guys acting too like devs didn't have to optimize PS4 Pro games.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Zen4c is the same as Zen4.
AMD Zen 4c Not an E-core, 35% Smaller than Zen 4, but with Identical IPC
First things first—Zen 4c has the same exact IPC as Zen 4 (that's performance at a given clock-speed). This is because its front-end, execution stage, load/store component, and internal cache hierarchy is exactly the same. It has the same 88-deep load queue, 64-deep store queue, the same 675,000 µop cache, the exact same INT+FP issue width of 10+6, the same exact INT register file, the same scheduler, and cache latencies. The L1I and L1D caches are the same 32 KB in size as "Zen 4," and so is the dedicated L2 cache, at 1 MB.
Zen4c Cores aren't the same as Intel's E-Cores.
The big point of the hybrid cores, for example, if Sony went with Strix Point.
The 4 Zen5 Cores can clock up to 5.1 Ghz and the 8 Zen5c Cores can clock up to 3.6 Ghz within the limited CPU power budget.
Imo, 8 cores isn't enough for this gen and Zen4c solves this by being smaller.
Mark Cerny would of gone with 16 Cores if the PS5 chip size wasn't a problem.
Not only that, the size of Zen4c allows for a bigger GPU.
This image speaks for itself.
I mean, it's not like the PS5 Zen2 Cores doesn't already look like half Zen4c. One can even say the PS5 is using Zen2c.
Look at Strix Point, then look Strix Halo rumored watts and that's with 16 Zen5 Cores and 40 RDNA3.5 CUs.
If Sony if going with 60 RDNA3.5 CUs, we know they're going to want to clock that GPU as high as possible. Maybe around 3GHz, if they're aiming for 8k with RT.
Thanks for the info.
But you are looking at a scenario where the PS5pro has a total of 12 cores right? 4 Zen4/5 actuals and 8 Zen 4/5c. The 8 maintains the 3.5Ghz click and as such BC mode with base PS5 native apps and has an additional 4 cores that can get clocked to 5Ghz if needed. And from what you are saying, that whole thing can come in a package that is still smaller than using 8 cores of normal Zen 4/5.
If they were going for 12 cores, then I could see that happening, but if going for the same 8 cores, with the focus then shifting to having more cache and running at a higher CPU clock, then I do not think they would use the c variant of the core.
splattered
Member
If I were Sony and/or MS I would find a way to start making these consoles more modular than just putting in your own SSD so you don't have to invest as much into an entirely new console for a mod gen refresh. What would the drawbacks for console design like this? Potential user installation error? People said same thing about the SSDs and they've been fine. As long as the modular upgrades are only officially created/licensed brand products what would be the downsides to going this route?
ChiefDada
Member
I want to turn some attention to Tom Henderson's reporting of 8K performance mode. People say it's marketing but I don't think so. I also don't think Sony wants to use the extra power to brute force their way (don't even think they could). I think Sony is going to get there with HW AI accelerators a la DLSS. My question is this - is it theoretically possible for Sony to use AMD's RDNA 3 AI accelerators to run whatever proprietary algorithms/deep learning models they have developed?
Daneel Elijah
Member
How could they do it without looking like cheapskates ? If it is useless then they loose money putting something that no one will use. If it is needed then making it optional will hurt them as most third party will not consider it part of the standard andnot really take advantage. If it is a great upgrade then people will be angry at them for not putting it in all consoles, and it will cost more for no good reason. The closest that we got in recent consoles was the N64 Ram upgrade I think? But it got weak support back then, and the same problems would exist now.
What make it hard to happen is that any optional upgrade will make it cost more than if put as a standard. Unless if it is something that is new and would get cheaper fast in a few years. But then it will be even more costly for the consumer, so even more problematic for having a large unified console base. Another problem is IMHO that modular is often seen as excuse to make more money from the upper offering. Apple give you a phone with a small amount of storage. Want to upgrade? Pay XXX$ or don't complain. This in the console space would be even worse because consoles are considered a cheap entry to gaming compared to a PC. Sony SSD took time to enter the market, and Xbox took time to get cheaper. Two types of poison, pick yours?
This being said, I think that a RAM upgrade could be done if they plan it well. The Series S/X proves that it don't harm the market that much, the benefits are evident to all parties and the cost would not be too much long term. But it could easily be considered a bad idea if one do it as a bonus when the other does it for all consoles. I would be happy for it, if I get more FPS or better graphics in most games.
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TheRedRiders
Member
If we get the current PS5's CPU, and plonk on significantly more cache and up the clocks to say 4Ghz, then what will be the increase in performance? anyone know?
TheRedRiders
Member
I want to turn some attention to Tom Henderson's reporting of 8K performance mode. People say it's marketing but I don't think so. I also don't think Sony wants to use the extra power to brute force their way (don't even think they could). I think Sony is going to get there with HW AI accelerators a la DLSS. My question is this - is it theoretically possible for Sony to use AMD's RDNA 3 AI accelerators to run whatever proprietary algorithms/deep learning models they have developed?
I don't think there's enough 8K TV's on the market to warrant an 8K performance mode - not even 5 years from now. Now 8K down-sampled to 4K, that would be interesting.
PS4 Pro relied heavily on first generation upscaling techniques i.e checkerboard rendering, it was good for its time but aged poorly, now the 2nd and 3rd generation of AI up sampling technologies like DLSS2, 3 and FSR 3 are very promising, I can see Sony going with their own custom solution though.
There's a few presentations Sony have on ray reconstruction technology - I think this is something they'll want to explore with PS5 Pro as well.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Too lazy to read the posts. But based on whatever rumours floating out there, what's the ballpark power PS5 Pro will be compared to PC? 3000-class PC? 4000-class PC?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Real world performance of around a 4070
MisterXDTV
Member
Actually devs didn't have to do much. Unless the frame-rate was locked, you could run PS4 Pro in "Boost mode" at system level and it improved the games right away...
A simple patch was enough in most cases....
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WhamBamThankYouMaam
Member
It all depends on what fps it will get in GTA VI.
leizzra
Member
Well they didn't put much work into PS4 Pro and XOX. They were focused mostly on higher resolution and sometimes frame rates. Those two consoles had much more power in them but this is a reality of having more platforms to work with. Things looked a bit different when Sony or MS paid for that but it was mostly made for a few titles at platforms launch.
I think that PS5 Pro may be in even worst situation because it'll be probably the only Pro consol on the market. Dev's may have even less desire to work with it.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
What's the point of a pro If It can't run GTAVI at 60fps?? Better Raytracing is cool but I wouldn't buy a pro just for that.
Btw the pro devkits should already been Out or not???
Btw the pro devkits should already been Out or not???
Perrott
Member
They should have arrived to some third-party devs a week or two ago, yes.
Audiophile
Gold Member
Zen4c 8C/16T @ 3.85GHz on a 4nm PS5 Pro APU would give +45% Perf boost from IPC+Clocks, then further gains from a 2x Cache size and wider system spec upgrades. If a game can hit 40fps while CPU-limited on PS5, then it'd be able to do 60fps on PS5 Pro. Add in Frame Gen support and you could see "up to" 120fps w/ VRR.
If it's just Zen2, I'm guessing we'll see ~4GHz + a cache bump. Either way, it's still gonna be a bit disappointing on that front.
If it's just Zen2, I'm guessing we'll see ~4GHz + a cache bump. Either way, it's still gonna be a bit disappointing on that front.
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Possibly, however from my point of view all I need them to do is set the dynamic resolution higher in performance mode so that's it's hitting 1440p at 60fps most of the time and I am happy. Maybe I have basic needs.
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MisterXDTV
Member
I think PS5 Pro's power would be easier to use than PS4 Pro . On the original PS4 a LOT of games were LOCKED to 30 Fps. This time almost all PS5 games are free to run above 30 fps especially on VRR screens and most games have a performance/quality mode toggle, Some even have a 40 fps locked or unlocked mode....
Knowing how Cerny works on a system level, it should be fairly easy to improve perfomance/resolution right away on PS5 Pro just by running the same code in "boost mode"
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Physiognomonics
Member
I doubt Sony every release another truely disc based console again. The last PS5 model showed us their way of the future I am afraid.
I know a lot had been made of it but in all honesty I would rather it was replaceable just in case it fails in a few years and I can then change it with minimal cost.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
years down the road it will be impossible to find new drive anyway....
Loxus
Member
After Gran Turismo Sophy AI, no doubt in my mind Sony would utilize the AI accelerators in RDNA3 for up scaling.I want to turn some attention to Tom Henderson's reporting of 8K performance mode. People say it's marketing but I don't think so. I also don't think Sony wants to use the extra power to brute force their way (don't even think they could). I think Sony is going to get there with HW AI accelerators a la DLSS. My question is this - is it theoretically possible for Sony to use AMD's RDNA 3 AI accelerators to run whatever proprietary algorithms/deep learning models they have developed?
The performance seems decent too for their first attempt.
XDNA can be used to offload additional AI task from the CPU as well.
My two cents on AMD's RT is, it's not the best but it's still good enough in the console space.
Looking at the 7700XT, I can see the Pro having a 60fps RT mode when utilizing AI tech.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
So called in a favor and got to tour this facility but they would not talk about the remodel going on only saying it’s for something unannounced which literally can be anything I know
ChiefDada
Member
Dr.D00p
Gold Member
Microsoft isn't a company that's bound by what it's competitors do, similar to Nintendo.
Microsoft have nothing to lose at this point, As things stand, PS5 will dominate for the next 4yrs, Series X is going to be a very distant second unless they break from the current release cadence of new consoles, which only really benefits Sony.
A new, next gen Xbox in late 2025 or early 2026 is what they need to get people excited about the brand once again. It will give them a 2yr headstart on Sony, who won't be able to come out with something massively more powerful just 18 to 24mths later given the long design lead times of silicon chips.
I think MS should create their own timetable for hardware releases, not slavishly stick to when they think Sony will.
..its worked out pretty well for Nintendo.
MasterCornholio
Member
The PS5 would follow soon after. It could be a PS4 Pro Vs X kind of situation.
Daneel Elijah
Member
Xbox is not like Nintendo at all. Only Microsoft money can allow them to somehow have the same ability to do what they want without caring to the gaming market at large, and even then this is IMHO a lot more limited. Xbox can't ignore the PC market like Nintendo does. It can't ignore a game like GTA 6 like Nintendo can. Not that Nintendo don't have problems of their own, but the situation is not the same at all, and simply wanting to have what Nintendo have, like their different place in the industry, brand and appeal to consumers without having what makes that possible in the first place, their treasure trove of unique IP.
This being said, my problem with a early next gen Xbox console is more about how the market will react to it, and how hard it will be for Xbox to make a good enough pitch for studios all around the world to make good use of this new console. We are still getting this year games like RE 4 Remake and Armored Core 6 for PS4. Games take a long time to make and will naturally be made with the best selling console in mind. This gen it will be the PS5. Once we accept that fact, and you seems to think so as you said that the PS5 will dominate for the next 4yrs, it makes any new console in a weird position to me. I will try to explain that with numbers, and it will be more about the hardware than how much I like the console or the number of exclusives or stuff like that.
The PS5 will be 1, as it is the standard for this generation for the sake of this discussion. I understand that the S/X have advantages of their own, and am not downplaying them, just explaining my feelings about it.
The PS4 was also a 1, and the Xbox One was inferior in some aspects. Let's put them at 0.8. When we got the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X, the Pro was just a simple upgrade of something really good. I will say it is a 2. The One X was a much bigger jump from the Xbox One, but it was still limited from a CPU perspective, so I will put it a 3. At some point it could be found for cheaper than the PS4 Pro in most markets, and that would put it at a 4, as it is obvious that the cheaper a console is, the more attractive it get, up to a certain point. The thing is that the Pro was out 1 year earlier than the One X. And that cost them a lot IMHO in terms of potential sales, and that did not help them at all for market adoption. When a game really use the One X power, it shows.
Now let's do the same with the PS5 gen. The PS5 is 1. The Xbox Series X will be 1 too, once again for making the discussion easier. The Series S will be 0.7 as it is cheaper, but weaker, and don't sell that much more than the X. We know that a PS5 Pro could happen this year. It will be a 2, unless Sony got greedy and make it too costly and/or underpowered. What will Xbox next console be? If it get only one year after the PS5 Pro in 2025/2026, it will not be able to get really that much better than the PS5 Pro. If it is out one year before the PS6, it will be hard for them to match it at the same price point.
And then we get to the market response. Games take years to be made. Even if we got a next gen Xbox for the end of 2025, and it is a great console there will be a lot of cross gen in between, and we know that with Gamepass Xbox can't abandon the Series S/X for a few years. So we got a console that will have games made with the Series S in mind. Then a PS6 will happen, that will naturally use the time to be a lot better. Then what, you put a next gen Pro to fight against it? When Xbox did not do that for the Series S/X gen? You let the PS6 be the best way to play without answer? Remember that we got that with the Dreamcast and Saturn. It is a bad place to be. Can Xbox decide to when a next generation begin? I am not sure. Would such a console be attractive for hardcore gamers? Of course. But I would see it as a glorified Pro version. It is as I have said in the post that you have quoted, a matter of timing. Too soon and it will not be a meaningful upgrade to the PS5 Pro. Too late and it will naturally not be in a good position against the PS6. Just imagine if they have done your idea for this gen. A Series S/X out one year earlier. What do you think would have happened? And if you admit that this would have been a bad idea, why do you think that for next gen it would be a good idea?
Sorry for the long answer, but I am really curious about what will happen when/if there is a PS5 Pro but not equivalent for Xbox. And once again, if a really good console is out from Xbox,and they got great games for it, I will take it, as it will be the best place to play for a few years.
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Ronin_7
Member
This is not the goal at all.
Ps5 Pro main goal is to push Ray Tracing, Resolution at stable frame rates.
Per example, games that drop below 30 or 60 on base Ps5 should lock to their frame rates while adding Ray Tracing & Resolution on top.
This is Ps5 Pro main goal.
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
It's not 2005 anymore. When the Xbox 360 launched with a year head start MS was able to procure actual next gen games, because it took only 1-2 years to develop a new game. These days it takes 5-6 years. Furthermore, back then it was still possible to launch systems that broke compatibility with the previous gen. That would be unheard of today.
If MS releases a Xbox 5 in 2025 MS is going to release crossgen games for at least 2 or 3 years. They'll have to placate Xbox Series who would be furious if MS were to abandon while PS5 owners would get full software support for a couple more years. Third parties will have no reason at all to create exclusive games for the Xbox 5 after the consecutive sales failures of the previous two Xbox consoles. That brand new super powerful Nextgen Xbox will certainly be the best way to play MS exclusives and third party games in the same way that the PS5 Pro was the best way to play PS exclusives and 3rd party games for 1 or two years: resolution will be higher, RT will be better, more 60 fps games, but nothing truly groundbreaking and nextgen.
But even when Sony launches a new console, that won't be when next gen truly arrives. Consoles will have become more like PCs where multiple graphical hardware generations co-exist and gamers expect scalable games instead of games that can only be played on the latest and greatest. Crossgen periods will become even longer than they are today.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Given what MS has been saying recently, I would not be surprised if they are getting out of hardware completely. Maybe they could do something like make an XBox mode for Windows and con Windows OEMs to make XBoxes and peddle GP.
As for Sony, I still think it's a mistake to not switch to Zen 4 for the PS5 Pro. But it's not surprising if they did that because they wanted to hit a price point without subsidy.
As for Sony, I still think it's a mistake to not switch to Zen 4 for the PS5 Pro. But it's not surprising if they did that because they wanted to hit a price point without subsidy.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Wait, we are expecting the ps5 Pro to be dissappinting now?
I'll still probably get one, as long as they launch with something awesome that I can potentially bundle in. Wolverine, or something else.....I wish we had an idea of what could be coming from playstation next year.
I'll still probably get one, as long as they launch with something awesome that I can potentially bundle in. Wolverine, or something else.....I wish we had an idea of what could be coming from playstation next year.
MasterCornholio
Member
If you care about power then the PS5 Pro will most likely be the best option with consoles.
However even without that I still expect PS5 to do very well.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
From all the rumours that I've read it is exactly what I always expected it to be i.e. higher clocked Zen 2, same RAM, ~ 2x GPU raster with new RDNA3/4 features. Pretty much a repeat of PS4 Pro (but actually relatively a little less of a bump due to diminishing returns/costs for silicon).
There are many reasons why it could be seen as "disappointing" but no way Sony would sabotage PS5 with a Zen 4/full RDNA 4 GPU for the Pro. It'd be just wasted power IMO and cost a fortune.
I still believe wherever the specs land the Pro will show nice gains in games, especially Sony from devs.
Zuzu
Member
Imo Microsoft should release a Pro console, perhaps in 2025, because it's the least worst decision they can make. They're not in a good position and no matter what decision they make it will likely have significant negative consequences. But still, I think releasing a third sku is the best out of all the (bad) options.
If they don't release a Pro console but wait until 2028 to launch a new console then they're really going to have live with the stigma that their consoles are pretty much the worst places to play third party games for around four years. Imagine all the fanfare there will be around Sony and the Playstation if Sony can really show off how great GTA6 will look running on their Pro console. It'll be an amazing halo product. Microsoft's answer will be...nothing. And this will be the case for every big, graphically advanced game for four years.
Releasing a new generation of console in 2026 also seems very risky. If they had proven first party studios who we could trust to develop class-leading games then this wouldn't be as big of an issue because the promise of new hardware and awesome first party games would likely get a lot of people to buy it. But since they don't yet have this calibre of games they really run the risk of people just passing by their new console and waiting for the PS6 instead which will outclass it power-wise (and people will already have the option of a PS5 Pro which will probably be good enough for a while for many people so they won't feel the need to jump to a new Xbox generation to get better third party game performance for just a couple of years).
The other option is to aggressively cut the price of the Series S & Series X permanently which will allow them to market their consoles as the best value options on the market by a wide margin. But this is probably way too difficult for the Xbox division to justify financially.
That leaves the last option which is a Pro console. This seems to have negative consequences as well. It will annoy developers who will have to optimise for three systems. It may confuse the mainstream market regarding which of Microsoft's consoles they should buy (too many skus to choose from). It threatens to render the Series X somewhat redundant. And it may not sell much and cause MS to lose a lot of money.
But hopefully all those negatives can be mitigated. Developers will just have to suck it up and optimise for 3 skus. Hopefully after 5 years or so the market will understand the difference between the Series S & Series X so hopefully a third sku which is clearly marketed won't cause too much widespread confusion. If they price the Series X smartly in comparison to the Pro then hopefully the Series X won't have too much redundancy. But they may just have to accept that the Pro could cannibalise some Series X sales. Their Pro may lose money but what about the money they will lose if Sony has a halo product on the market for four years?
So out of all these options I think an Xbox Series Pro is the best way forward. There's big problems with it but also some positives. It stops Sony from having a halo product that completely outclasses their consoles for 4 years. And it also allows them to launch in 2028 alongside Sony without running the risk of being Dreamcasted by launching a new generation early.
If I was MS I would launch their Series X and S refreshes with the new haptic controller etc. next year around March or April. I would NOT launch it around the same time as the PS5 Pro because it will end up getting massively mocked across the general gaming media and social media because it will end up being contrasted against the Pro rather than assessed on its own merits. Let it have a few months on the market before the Pro comes so it can get its own limelight.
Then I would launch a Series Pro towards the end of 2025. And if possible with the technology at the time, make sure it is clearly superior to the PS5 Pro. It can't be trading performance wins like the Series X is currently doing with the PS5. They wouldn't do this, but perhaps include an Elite Series 3 controller which builds upon the new haptics controller they release. Then release in 2028 alongside Sony. And live with the negative consequences. Whatever they do there seems to be a downside.
If they don't release a Pro console but wait until 2028 to launch a new console then they're really going to have live with the stigma that their consoles are pretty much the worst places to play third party games for around four years. Imagine all the fanfare there will be around Sony and the Playstation if Sony can really show off how great GTA6 will look running on their Pro console. It'll be an amazing halo product. Microsoft's answer will be...nothing. And this will be the case for every big, graphically advanced game for four years.
Releasing a new generation of console in 2026 also seems very risky. If they had proven first party studios who we could trust to develop class-leading games then this wouldn't be as big of an issue because the promise of new hardware and awesome first party games would likely get a lot of people to buy it. But since they don't yet have this calibre of games they really run the risk of people just passing by their new console and waiting for the PS6 instead which will outclass it power-wise (and people will already have the option of a PS5 Pro which will probably be good enough for a while for many people so they won't feel the need to jump to a new Xbox generation to get better third party game performance for just a couple of years).
The other option is to aggressively cut the price of the Series S & Series X permanently which will allow them to market their consoles as the best value options on the market by a wide margin. But this is probably way too difficult for the Xbox division to justify financially.
That leaves the last option which is a Pro console. This seems to have negative consequences as well. It will annoy developers who will have to optimise for three systems. It may confuse the mainstream market regarding which of Microsoft's consoles they should buy (too many skus to choose from). It threatens to render the Series X somewhat redundant. And it may not sell much and cause MS to lose a lot of money.
But hopefully all those negatives can be mitigated. Developers will just have to suck it up and optimise for 3 skus. Hopefully after 5 years or so the market will understand the difference between the Series S & Series X so hopefully a third sku which is clearly marketed won't cause too much widespread confusion. If they price the Series X smartly in comparison to the Pro then hopefully the Series X won't have too much redundancy. But they may just have to accept that the Pro could cannibalise some Series X sales. Their Pro may lose money but what about the money they will lose if Sony has a halo product on the market for four years?
So out of all these options I think an Xbox Series Pro is the best way forward. There's big problems with it but also some positives. It stops Sony from having a halo product that completely outclasses their consoles for 4 years. And it also allows them to launch in 2028 alongside Sony without running the risk of being Dreamcasted by launching a new generation early.
If I was MS I would launch their Series X and S refreshes with the new haptic controller etc. next year around March or April. I would NOT launch it around the same time as the PS5 Pro because it will end up getting massively mocked across the general gaming media and social media because it will end up being contrasted against the Pro rather than assessed on its own merits. Let it have a few months on the market before the Pro comes so it can get its own limelight.
Then I would launch a Series Pro towards the end of 2025. And if possible with the technology at the time, make sure it is clearly superior to the PS5 Pro. It can't be trading performance wins like the Series X is currently doing with the PS5. They wouldn't do this, but perhaps include an Elite Series 3 controller which builds upon the new haptics controller they release. Then release in 2028 alongside Sony. And live with the negative consequences. Whatever they do there seems to be a downside.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
IF there is an Xbox Pro console coming they have kept it top secret and as of today I still think Xbox will try to jump start next gen maybe as early as late 2025
Zuzu
Member
I'm concerned if they really decide to do this. Hopefully they can pull it off somehow. I'll likely buy it if it happens (I love my Series X). But I really hope it doesn't end in disaster...
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Daneel Elijah
Member
You have already said so in a few occasions in the past, and those confidences are always appreciated. I have one question, is this next gen from Xbox more of a marketing thing, or a real game changer? I remember you saying a few months ago that PS5 Pro or PS6, it is just how you name it. Would this Xbox console be just that, a Pro version but with more money injected in it than normal? One of Xbox real advantages is that they are not as limited as Sony is in terms of hardware compatibility. That's how they managed to make a One S so different where the PS4 Slim was the same hardware for obvious reasons. I would understand that with the right message it could work, as long as they have another console ready for the PS6. But can they do this? Plan to invest heavily on this next gen console when the Series S/X cost them a lot of money and with the need to do this again in a few years against a very easy to make and market PS5 Pro? And with the fear of missing whatever the PS6 will bring to the market in a few more years, maybe forcing them to again have a "next gen Pro" to fight against it? It would make those consoles more attractive to me, knowing that I can have the best console for a time, and upgrade every 3/4 years but I can't see this being profitable when we are talking about billions lost in R&D and millions of consoles sold at a loss.