Support NeoGAF

[NeoIkaruGAF]

From a point of view of an english speaking person maybe, but many languages are gender based and localizations needs to have changes for things to make sense...

I know for a fact that finding a word that could adapt “Tarnished“ for the Italian and Spanish text in Elden Ring had the translators get stuck for a while.
In the Italian version, every sentence referring to the player’s character was carefully phrased to remove any gendered word.
Sometimes the effort is well-meaning, and admirable too, like in this example. Not always, though.

Not so sure when they post that bullet with a rainbow flag emoji. If this is not meant to come across as catering to "woke" cultural ideals then not sure what the point is.

Ding ding ding.

It’s frankly impossible to mistake the kind of changes that this promises to make in the name of inclusivity and representation. The rainbow says it all.
I mean, we just had a thread where the use of some numbers in a video game just had to have a certain hidden meaning. But we shouldn’t draw conclusions from a rainbow, right?

 

[LordCBH]

Why are they hiring retards that hate their work and their culture?

 

[Bartski]

 

[Gp1]

This is the kind of thing that imho destroys games translations almost every single time.

Brazil e.g. is a country that has really a strong translation/dubbing culture. To the point that they alter the source material to adapt/insert regionalisms and jokes or use some "popstar" voice actor that dubbed your favorite tv show/anime.

Some people love this kind of thing. I personally hate it so i play in the original language.

 

[tommib]

I’ve been working in localization my whole life. It’s always been this. They’re called language specific style guidelines. GAF has gone insane since the SBI apocalypse. Get a grip, people.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

I really hate that phrase, "Preserving the vibe" (It's in the "The Importance of Context" section)

I don't want the "vibe" to be preserved. I want the artists vision to be preserved.

I want EXACTLY what he or she wrote, to be preserved. What they intended. What they wanted it to be.

This is hilarious. Yall be bitching when the artist vision doesnt look like a supermodel lmao

 

[nush]

 

[Sho_Gunn]

Judging by a couple of comments I can tell some people are confused as to whether they should be mad or not lmfao.

 

[A.Romero]

Not so sure when they post that bullet with a rainbow flag emoji. If this is not meant to come across as catering to "woke" cultural ideals then not sure what the point is.

Just saying that gender-specific language is part of many languages like my mother tongue. Actually, woke culture is pushing for abolishing gender specific language.

 

[InterMusketeer]

I'm not aware of any translation/localization mishaps by Capcom, but it's understandable some people are wary of this type of publication. We've seen many butchered localization jobs in this and other industries, even including censorship, and many times those are done for ideological reasons rather than to improve the experience. We've got people on record saying how much they like altering things in games they find problematic. It's not some kind of conspiracy theory. Just another avenue for the culture war.

But yeah, best be careful that you don't get mad at the wrong people, or for something that hasn't even happened yet.

 

[Spirit Icana]

Depends, I don't necessarily think the use of localized slang in an English translation makes Cloud a "fundamentally different" character.

It may change perceptions and preconceived notions about politeness and formality perhaps, which is a modest part of the characterization, but there's a huge can of worms about how to approach this specific subject when it comes to Japanese translation theory and practice.

While there are certainly explicit insults and curse words in Japanese that you can identify and translate rather directly, that's not the only way in which an ostensibly Japanese character can express themselves in a way that's impolite, rough or rude. This can also be done in a purely implicit or indirect, stylistic manner and apparently that's present in Cloud's Japanese speech.

Therefore, introducing slang to make this more explicit in English given the character's background could be a defensible choice in that case. Of course, you can also do that in other ways, but it's not an irrational option.

Interesting reddit thread you linked to, which further linked to an interesting series of translation videos for the original FF7.



Around the 8:00 mark you can see how so many of these lines can be arranged in English in so many different ways, each carrying a fresh feel to what is being communicated. Each of us could go through this whole process and say "well, I'd write it this way".

Alexander O. Smith was about capturing the experience a Japanese reader would take away from a product, and have an English reader experience that same richness in full. It's hard work, and boils down to knowledge and experience. Take Yuna's farewell line from Final Fantasy X with the Japanese "Arigatou" (thank you) vs the English line "I love you". On it's face, it's a rewrite, but connotation, among the context of the entire game, and the relationship between Tidus and Yuna, plus the cultural conditioning the Japanese may have for the word "Arigatou" gives a more intimate feel to the Japanese listener that is something more powerful than a simple "thank you" would communicate to an English listener. Hollywood has conditioned us for feeling more intimacy from a phrase like "I love you" as being a powerful form of saying goodbye to a loved one. And so, with permission from the Japanese scenario writer Kazushige Nojima, Alex got the go ahead to interpret the line with "I love you" to bridge that impact the Japanese got into the English speaking world. From just one word, a lot of thought and consideration had to be done.

 

[AutumnLeaves]

God, I loathe this company. They have fallen so far down it's pathetic.

 

[Operations66]

The damage control shills are here.

 

[Rentahamster]

Eat your hamburgers, Apollo!

 

[Topher]

I don't agree with those pointing fingers at GAF here. Like or not, this is bigger than GAF and has become a major concern for those who don't want politically correct language shoved down our throats whether it be movies, TV and yeah, video games.

Having said that....

Just saying that gender-specific language is part of many languages like my mother tongue. Actually, woke culture is pushing for abolishing gender specific language.

If that is what they are trying to convey then I think they did themselves a disservice in not being clear that this isn't social/political in nature. If it wasn't then the rainbok emoji was their first mistake as that has become synomous with gender identity politics.

 

[Fess]

Didn’t realize they change the actual content, except Super Probotector in PAL region. Pushing current western trends onto every country in the world when doing localization seems like a horrible idea.

 

[GHound]

Character design and development must be culturally sensitive. What may be acceptable in one culture might be offensive in another. Localizers play a crucial role in ensuring that characters are relatable and respectful, avoiding stereotypes or other references that could be perceived as negative in specific cultures.

Localization efforts extend to promoting inclusivity through language and representation. This involves adapting not only the linguistic aspects but also addressing gender-specific language, cultural norms, and diverse perspectives. The aim is to create an immersive experience where players from different backgrounds can identify with the characters and narrative. This can be very challenging for certain languages due to grammar.

Most of the people who buy games are about as informed as the people who try to put gas in a Tesla so this will continue to largely go unpunished with everything but the most niche titles.

 

[IAmRei]

Hopefully the culprit will fail, i'm very afraid for this... :'(

 

[Spirit Icana]

I’ve been working in localization my whole life. It’s always been this. They’re called language specific style guidelines. GAF has gone insane since the SBI apocalypse. Get a grip, people.

I think the discussion is a little bit more nuanced than that in today's western cultural climate, as I'm sure most here are probably zooming in on the rainbow, and "inclusivity" word choices, to color their impression on the Capcom post. Plus there are examples widely available showing strong localization changes, or even censorship to the original intent, being practiced today.

Earlier this year, I was checking out the new dub for Gundam SEED, and I noticed a change in dialogue from the first episode right away, despite being a decade plus since I've seen the series. The main character, Kira Yamato (a guy), is helping a stranger evacuate a city. They find some bunker/shelter, or whatever it was called, but it's completely full with people and they refuse to take anymore people in. Kira insist's they at least take the person he is with, because, as he had just discovered seconds earlier, the stranger is "just a girl" (original localization/j-line). Of course, this line was removed in the new English dub in favor of the word "child" as it would be deemed "problematic" today to say "girl", almost as if implying that word also means 'weak' (the "child" is roughly the same age as Kira, btw). The original Japanese, and the original English dub both used the term "girl" for this scene, and the context around that whole scenario was in fact wrapped on the revelation that the Sherlock brown dressed character that was in the science lab with Kira earlier in the episode was in fact a girl, and not a guy. There is very little doubt that NYPOST, the company re-dubbing SEED, chose to rewrite this line for the new English dub because of our modern western sensibilities.

So little stuff like that, I'm sure, is sparking the kind of feedback to Capcom's post that you see here.

 

[Red5]

Eh doesn't seem like a big deal, rather standard practice for localization.

Arabic for example has very gendered vocabulary and grammar, males have their own variation of verbs while females have their own variations. So when Capcom says they have to respect that to me it just means they're going to do a good Arabic localization.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Based Korea is making their footprint in the gaming industry at the right time.

If they don't cave, they will become the new Japan. When I grew tired of western media, I found Japan and it opened up my eyes to all sorts of things that, even previously some of which I had just closed myself off to. Anime was hyper violent, had good world building, decent writing. That + the video games.
They were doing things in media that was quite literally foreign but exciting and new to me. I don't think I will get that exact same feeling with South Korea, but I feel they can take the torch if Japan is going to heel to the DEI regime that ruins whatever it's imposed on.

 

[Fess]

Eh doesn't seem like a big deal, rather standard practice for localization.

Arabic for example has very gendered vocabulary and grammar, males have their own variation of verbs while females have their own variations. So when Capcom says they have to respect that to me it just means they're going to do a good Arabic localization.

Don’t bet on it. Gender differences is frowned upon, biological or through language.

I’ll never accept Assassin’s Creed Valhalla’s male protagonist being called Eivor. It’s so hilariously dumb. There are almost no genderless names in the nordic countries and Eivor is 100% a woman’s name with no exceptions. It’s basically a King Elizabeth scenario.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

The damage control shills are here.

And it always comes with the motte-and-bailey gaslighting. No one is disagreeing with the fact that idioms and humor will get lost in translation if done directly. It's the "cultural sensitivity" and "inclusive language" that raises alarm bells since that has nothing to do with preserving the artists' original intent.

 

[Kacho]

The damage control shills are here.

It’s always the same people. Easy to ignore.

 

[Lions Gate]

Capcom is making 7th generation mistake again

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

God dammit Capcom, we know you’re Japanese. This isn’t the 1980s anymore, we know you’re from a different culture and that’s part of what we like about Japanese games.

Western entertainment has gone to shit because of DEI messaging getting clumsily forced into everything, even the almighty Disney is releasing flop after big budget flop because they took a big old DEI shit all over their beloved classics.

 

[LRKD]

Exactly why I haven't bought a capcom game new since RE2 remake. It's been obvious for a while now, glad people are finally starting to see it.

 

[DaciaJC]

Translating one language into another with the purpose of preserving the original meaning or intended emotional response is one thing - that is, indeed, the function of localization, and it's not a new concept.

It's another thing altogether when these localization teams proudly proclaim that they are driven by a desire to promote "cultural sensitivity" and "inclusivity through representation" and we have numerous examples throughout the years of original creators' works getting twisted by woke westerner localizers in service of an agenda.

To those in this thread complaining about posters "overreacting," I think it's pretty damned obvious exactly what it is people are complaining about.

 

[nush]

except Super Probotector in PAL region

That's a Konami game.

 

[Goalus]

I really hate that phrase, "Preserving the vibe" (It's in the "The Importance of Context" section)

I don't want the "vibe" to be preserved. I want the artists vision to be preserved.

This is a noble attitude, but all they are doing is making sure that us western people are not emotionally hurt by things that we don't know or understand from our cultural perspective. The downside might be that we get a somewhat gimped experience of a foreign culture, but who would seriously complain about that when on the plus side we can now finally feel safe and welcome while playing.

Edit:
I illustrated the fear that some players (including me) might be dealing with in a recent post:

Blizzard Entertainment and NetEase Renew Agreement to Bring Beloved Titles Back to China

Previously: Netease and Blizzard suspended their games in China at the end of '22 and Netease even filed a lawsuit against Blizzard in April 2023. Now: Looks like they have come to an agreement again...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Kings Field]

it can’t get as bad as Chucky right? RIGHT???

 

[DeVeAn]

Ooooooh brother. When will this era be done with?

 

[Shake Your Rump]

I hear the word inclusive, and immediately expect less of said product. Less excitement, action, sex appeal, and fun.

Makes sense, since it is just another way of saying they are making the game for the lowest common denominator. Generic.

 

[marquimvfs]

People here are freaking without a reason. Being a Brazilian, I'm very used to consume localised works, mainly TV shows and movies. The text isn't all wrong, but people were triggered by a few key words that were used, inclusion and gender aren't always a bad thing. I'm also not against changing the original intent or mood on some scenes, or even adding slangs and so on. I think that when it is done properly, the results can (and have been) better than original. Mediocre movies and average animations have made more success here in Brazil than in the original country due to localization and dubbing work. Take the movie White Chicks as an example, not very successful in USA (as expressed a gazillion times by the Wayans Brothers), and here is a timeless classic (goofy humor movie, but still). I'm also not very familiar with the popularity of the Emperor's new Groove and Surf's Up animations, but the original is way (waaaaaaay) worse than the Brazilian dub. In both cases, more comedy and slangs were added to the script, that completely changed the movies tone to an (even) more comedy one. Talking about japanese stuff, animes here also have an excellent localisation job. I know people that like watching originals over any dubbed, but, personally, I prefer to watch the Brasilian version of Dragon Ball Z, Yu Yu Hakusho and One Punch Man over the original japanese ones.

 

[NanaMiku]

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

I pray this shit doesn't affect Pragmata's development.

 

[Loomy]

Since 2017 Capcom has had - arguably - one of the most consistent release cadence/quality out of any publisher/developer out there. Everyone's loved their games and how they came out. 7 years later, we find out about the localization guidelines they've been applying to their games the entire time and all of a sudden they're what's wrong with the industry?

 

[Fess]

That's a Konami game.

I know I was talking about localization in general, didn’t realize actual content could be changed.

In some cases I guess changes would make sense. Like when you play Starfield and live in the nordic countries and not even 1% of the citizens are white, that’s certainly not helping me feel more at home in that universe.
But they could just explain it instead, maybe there was some kind of holocaust?

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

I’ve been working in localization my whole life. It’s always been this. They’re called language specific style guidelines. GAF has gone insane since the SBI apocalypse. Get a grip, people.

Surely you don't support drastic changes like eliminating gendered languages then

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Let the masses decide, not this minority of soft crybabies who get offended over everything.

Like a couple of nerds on a video game forum crying about “sacrilegious” localisation?

 

[Dr. Claus]

God, this place is turning into as much of a loony bin as Reseter

How? Because people want to experience the art as the artist intended?

Maybe look in the mirror before you start calling folks here “loony”, kiddo.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Like a couple of nerds on a video game forum crying about “sacrilegious” localisation?

The people here are advocating on seeing the artists vision, even if it isn’t something they like. But keep on misrepresenting what folks are saying here. Are you sure you aren’t meant to be posting over at Era?

I’ve been working in localization my whole life. It’s always been this. They’re called language specific style guidelines. GAF has gone insane since the SBI apocalypse. Get a grip, people.

This isn’t surprising. No wonder you like to defend this crap all the time.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

The people here are advocating on seeing the artists vision, even if it isn’t something they like.

No, they’re shouting “oh no, wokeism!” at the clouds always.

It’s tiresome.

 

[Dr. Claus]

No, they’re shouting “oh no, wokeism!” at the clouds always.

It’s tiresome.

Yep, thanks for proving my point. Run along back to the insane aslyum now and drop the strawman arguments already.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Yep, thanks for proving my point. Run along back to the insane aslyum now and drop the strawman arguments already.

The argument that anyone who disagrees with the rhetoric is “one of those era loonies” is the expected response too.

We could do this all day bro.

 

[Luc2010]

Well, eventually they go broke. If they continue to push this. Nobody will be buying shit.

 

[Boglin]

I'm seeing a huge rise in the "GAF is the opposite of Era and just as bad" type of comments lately. Have the moderators here started banning people for wrong think?

 

[fersnake]

 

[StueyDuck]

I mean yeah games have always been localized.

But fuck it... offend people, I want that raw creators intent.

I would respect a Japanese game where all the characters are just stereotypes instead of this bland sea of Sludge where everyone and everything's the same even their genders.