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[Lokaum D+]

The fight was easy. The whole area was easy.

not talking about difficult but ok, u can aways finish the game and play it again on hard, u know what fight was a piece of cake too ?



lets auto-battle 90% of the fight, look how deep and fun this end game combat is, good old times

 

[FoxMcChief]

Regular enemies: burn your specials, they melt, do coup de grace as necessary. You win.

Bosses: cycle through specials to perform max stagger damage and r1 any major attacks. When staggered, limit break to increase basic attack dps and heal, spam square while your specials refresh. When stagger finishes, cycle through specials again to re-stagger. You’ll typically have full limit meter again by the next stagger.

That’s about it. There’s not much asked of you in terms of timing, reactions, learning patterns, or execution. It can be handy to do the wind counter or heatwave projectile counter at times but you can easily ignore that and burn all your specials whenever they’re off cooldown to get the same result.

It’s mechanically too simple. The bombastic major boss battles are cool because of how cinematic and dynamic they are, which elevates them. But the systems are not nearly as good as they need to be for a character action game, and the RPG systems are too stripped down to make up for it.

This is what I’m starting to notice. The game is as shallow as a water puddle.

 

[Myths]

The side quests in this game are so fucking mmo FFXIV. Easily the worst parts of the game.

They amount to nothing more than the fetch quest type. There’s no structural complexity behind them that incorporates clues, puzzles, and other conditionals to provide more mental stimulus. I point the finger back to how abilities and spells play virtually no role outside of just battles. There’s a lot they could have done with traditional spells to further the level/field design (a brief post I’d made earlier).

How nice it would’ve been to see something similar to FFIX’s Chocobo growth system in a fully realized world like XVI’s.

 

[Nankatsu]

Venture a bit into arcade mode. It's nice you get all your scores from previous legs to C in case you die.

Was doing the first one, full of S ranks, got distracted and died. Lesson learned

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That’s about it. There’s not much asked of you in terms of timing, reactions, learning patterns, or execution.

I don't find this to be true at all. You are constantly being asked to learn enemy patterns, dodge, and utilize your Eikons to counter or strategically deploy them during staggers while utilizing combos inbetween ehausting the eikons and also using Torgo.

There's A LOT of mechanical input that makes the fights engaging. You compare it to something like Elden Ring and it's night and day difference, that game is more just about rolling and not being too aggressive while tweaking your build, but in terms of mechanics those games are a far cry from the mechanical input required out of this game. And I enjoyed Elden Ring's combat, it has a very different pace to it, but I prefer everything on offer with FFXVI from a dexterity standpoint

 

[Shifty1897]

FF16 in a nutshell:
I just got done doing this crazy thing, and now this even crazier thing is happening.

 

[EviLore]

There's A LOT of mechanical input that makes the fights engaging. You compare it to something like Elden Ring and it's night and day difference, that game is more just about rolling and not being too aggressive while tweaking your build, but in terms of mechanics those games are a far cry from the mechanical input required out of this game. And I enjoyed Elden Ring's combat, it has a very different pace to it, but I prefer everything on offer with FFXVI from a dexterity standpoint

There's no tension in the combat and you barely have to pay attention to what's going on to win. If you find that to be more mechanically engaging than Elden Ring then I question whether you've played Elden Ring, tbh. Short of cheesing the game, Elden Ring requires you to focus and master the game's systems to succeed.

 

[Aenima]

Venture a bit into arcade mode. It's nice you get all your scores from previous legs to C in case you die.

Was doing the first one, full of S ranks, got distracted and died. Lesson learned

Same happened to me. Did the first stage, got S rank in all the sectors untill the final boss, died in the boss and selected continue, got S rank in the Boss but all the previous sectors got reset with no score and a C rank lol.

 

[ChiefDada]

There's no tension in the combat and you barely have to pay attention to what's going on to win.

I'm so baffled by this. How far along are you?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

There's no tension in the combat and you barely have to pay attention to what's going on to win. If you find that to be more mechanically engaging than Elden Ring then I question whether you've played Elden Ring, tbh.

Maybe if you have all the easy mode modifiers enabled, you don't need to pay attention. If you don't have those and you've already made it decently into the game, you of course have to pay attention to the significant battles against enemies. It's not trying to be as punishing as something like Elden Ring on the basic first playthrough, but it's not something you don't have to give much thought to.

Elden Ring isn't as mechanically engaging and requires far less inputs and diversity of maneuvers on offer. The combat is basic, it just punishes you greatly for mistakes, which this game doesn't do as often. Yes, it has tension, but it's not nearly as layered as something like this.

 

[EviLore]

I'm so baffled by this. How far along are you?

3 icons and a fair ways after.

 

[Madflavor]

It’s funny to read this because combat was the one thing unanimously praised across the board in reviews, even the negative ones. I feel it might be premature to call the combat mindless and shallow until you’ve unlocked most of the Eikons and have engaged in the more difficult fights.

I mean if you’re still an outlier after that, then fair enough. Different strokes.

 

[danklord]

It's almost like they want people to beat the game this time. And if you're into more challenge the new game+ seems super robust, but I haven't gotten there yet.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It’s funny to read this because combat was the one thing unanimously praised across the board in reviews, even the negative ones. I feel it might be premature to call the combat mindless and shallow until you’ve unlocked most of the Eikons and have engaged in the more difficult fights.

I mean if you’re still an outlier after that, then fair enough. Different strokes.

People seem to be confusing difficulty with quality. The game isn't out to be a Souls title, at least on initial playthroughs. Rattle off any action RPG released that's not a Souls game and they all have fairly easy combat. Rattle off any JRPG and they all have easy combat. Maybe Elden Ring has shifted the mindset for folks - which is fine, but that's not the norm. Horizon? Easy. Witcher? Easy. God of War? Easy. I don't really judge these games based on how many times I die. I judge them based on how much fun I have playing with the toolset on offer.

And this game gets me into a zen-like flow state where I feel incredibly engaged moment to moment and where I can personally judge my own performance in fights (despite winning) on whether or not I'm doing good or not. Some battles, I still win but end up really not memorizing the patterns correctly of a new enemy and have to waste a lot of potions. As I play those enemies more throughout the game, I start to master them and the fights end up being fun just trying to optimize how quickly I can get through them as efficiently as possible.

Maybe people are looking for more of a challenge, which I would recommend NG+ or Final Fantasy Mode when those are available. But the developers wanted to make this game more broadly appealing and easy to dive into on a first playthrough.

 

[struggler_guts]

The poll convinced me to try quality and I gottah admit it might actually be better for once

 

[EviLore]

The poll convinced me to try quality and I gottah admit it might actually be better for once

Performance mode is unstable and looks significantly worse. Quality seems to be the way to go this time, at least for now.

 

[fart town usa]

not talking about difficult but ok, u can aways finish the game and play it again on hard, u know what fight was a piece of cake too ?



lets auto-battle 90% of the fight, look how deep and fun this end game combat is, good old times

You said people were talking shit about Eikon fights and to wait for Typhon. Only person talking shit is you.

 

[GHG]

Loving this game so far. I'm glad we have a jrpg like this in 2023. Considering my favourite in the series is VIII (I know, I know... Hate me all you want) and Lost Odyssey stands alongside that as my favourite JRPGs this hits all the right notes for me from a tonal perspective.

I don't think I'm far enough to give a conclusive view on the combat, but so far it's far too easy for me, wish there was a difficulty setting of some sort. All the right mechanics are there to from what I can see but it's just not punishing enough for my tastes. My view is that if you're going to have this style of combat then at least let people who want a challenge crank the difficulty (and by that I don't just mean health numbers etc, I mean enemy aggression and intelligence).

Overall a stunning game so far though. Very happy to have this, TOTK, Diablo 4 and SF 6 to play all at the same time. We're in a great little period of releases.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Did the first rank C hunt and died two times trying to perfect the monster, the difficult spike was nice imo

 

[Lethal01]

No matter how deep the combat if someone refuses to engage with system then its going to bore him/her no matter what but at that point its not game's fault, its the player who chose to play it in boring way.

I do think it's a negative if a game doesn't make you need to use it's mechanics.

 

[T_LVPL]

You just made one hell of a leap mate. It was a question. I just don't remember seeing this many shit posts in other games' OT threads. Maybe the review and digital foundry discussions just not in the OT.

To keep posting about something that I hate seems like psycho shit to me.

Again, this isn’t how my brain works and while I’m aware there’s huge portions of the world who live in happy land every day and never think or talk about anything they don’t like, I am baffled by this and always will be. Nobody here will ever meet me and nobody should care I don’t like the game. I don’t care who does like it, it doesn’t affect me in the slightest. I know anyone who legitimately believes this game is better than FF7RI only does because the game came out 3 days ago. If they both came out the same day nobody’d think it was better. Maybe a small percentage of Game of Thrones-shaggers who prefer this type of rubbish to a proper Final Fantasy.

Kitase and the real FF team in the main studio at Square have gone up in my estimation even more now, just like Peter Jackson did after Amazon’s Rings of Power dropped. It makes all the proper Final Fantasy games look even more brilliant than they did this time on Wednesday night at 11:59pm.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Kitase

You realize this game has more in common with those older FF titles, right?

 

[Myths]

Nobody should be underwhelmed by the graphics, from the first trailer several years back we already knew what we were getting ourselves into.

Spoiler

Haven’t quite yet finished but Mid’s fire-powered ship. Tell me we’ll seek out the Mythril to collect, from an Adamantoise no less.

 

[Danjin44]

I do think it's a negative if a game doesn't make you need to use it's mechanics.

I heard people complain about same thing even difficult game like Sekiro, even calling QET rhythm game, or even cheesing the boss because it difficult for them, I would say in general players have great ability suck all the fun out of the game for themselves.

 

[Lethal01]

I heard people complain about same thing even difficult game like Sekiro, even calling QET rhythm game, or even cheesing the boss because it difficult for them, I would say in general players have great ability suck all the fun out of the game for themselves.

I agree, but Personally I think the game is just too easy on normal and should have had a harder difficulty from the start, I felt the same way about FF7R remake, in that game you can luckily choose not to level up but I don't think that's a proper solution.

The game lets you play better, and it may even reward you for it with short fights but I think there should always be the option for it to require you play better.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

People seem to be confusing difficulty with quality. The game isn't out to be a Souls title, at least on initial playthroughs. Rattle off any action RPG released that's not a Souls game and they all have fairly easy combat. Rattle off any JRPG and they all have easy combat. Maybe Elden Ring has shifted the mindset for folks - which is fine, but that's not the norm. Horizon? Easy. Witcher? Easy. God of War? Easy. I don't really judge these games based on how many times I die. I judge them based on how much fun I have playing with the toolset on offer.

And this game gets me into a zen-like flow state where I feel incredibly engaged moment to moment and where I can personally judge my own performance in fights (despite winning) on whether or not I'm doing good or not. Some battles, I still win but end up really not memorizing the patterns correctly of a new enemy and have to waste a lot of potions. As I play those enemies more throughout the game, I start to master them and the fights end up being fun just trying to optimize how quickly I can get through them as efficiently as possible.

Maybe people are looking for more of a challenge, which I would recommend NG+ or Final Fantasy Mode when those are available. But the developers wanted to make this game more broadly appealing and easy to dive into on a first playthrough.

Imagine thinking a Final Fantasy title should be some niche super hard action title.

It's Final Fantasy. The saying is cliched at this point but if you're looking for Dark Souls, go play Dark Souls.

 

[Komatsu]

As someone who's been playing Final Fantasy for close to 30 years now, I am having a great time with the game. The soundtrack is fantastic, the production values are thru the roof (always a thing whenever a new mainline FF comes around) and the plot is engaging, though there've been some intimations that it will turn stupid sooner rather than later.

Some big names are back, and it shows: Hiroshi Minagawa, longtime Matsuno collaborator and the character designer in FFT and FFXII, is back. Masayoshi Soken is on fire here, almost all tracks are bangers.

That said, it looks like a FF game, it sounds like one, it just doesn't play like one. Gone are the hybrid systems of XV and VIIR, this is an action game, period.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I’m sure the games combat could be deep (like TotK), but you really would have to go out of your way. Spamming SQUARE takes care of 99% of non-boss enemies in no time at all. And the only difference with boss fights is you add R2+a face button. And the occasional “cinematic” evade or hit.

Evading is simple. I just don’t know why they didn’t offer a harder difficulty at the start.

 

[Lethal01]

Maybe people are looking for more of a challenge, which I would recommend NG+ or Final Fantasy Mode when those are available. But the developers wanted to make this game more broadly appealing and easy to dive into on a first playthrough.

The simple solution is that these modes should simply be there from the start, people didn't shift their mentality because of dark souls, there were always people who wanted challenge from games, dark souls just catered to them in some ways.

I'm not saying the game isn't more fun when using the abilities to their fullest regardless of difficulty, but for many it would be far better if you actually needed to.

They already added an easymode that just lets you skip any need to engage with the game and have an unlockable hard mode, no reason they can't put a hard mode in form the start,

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I’m sure the games combat could be deep (like TotK)

???

 

[FoxMcChief]

???

Watch some Lynell fights and the creative approach you can take. Meanwhile, hacking, slashing and dodging still work fine.

 

[fart town usa]

Imagine thinking a Final Fantasy title should be some niche super hard action title.

It's Final Fantasy. The saying is cliched at this point but if you're looking for Dark Souls, go play Dark Souls.

People are saying it because XVI is an action game. No one is asking for a Souls-like, just a bit of challenge.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Watch some Lynell fights and the creative approach you can take. Meanwhile, hacking, slashing and dodging still work fine.

I mean, it’s creative I’ll give you that.

The core combat is not deep, it’s one of the weak spots of that game

 

[Sleepwalker]

You can kill every enemy in totk by dodging and hitting it with basic attacks and its not really hard. That combat is only deep and creative if you want it to be. Like XVI.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

People are saying it because XVI is an action game. No one is asking for a Souls-like, just a bit of challenge.

It's meant for the 99%, not the 1%.

The 99% play games to have fun and see the story or whatever. Final Fantasy was always that kind of franchise. There has never been a Final Fantasy title where the goal was to kill the player 99 times per boss fight.

I was just thinking how bosses in previous FF titles often went out of their way not to kill you. FFX is probably the best example of that, as it was a true turn based combat system.

Final Fantasy is so well known for bosses that don't try to kill you that when you do lose often it's because you're literally scripted to in order to advance the story.

 

[Danjin44]

I agree, but Personally I think the game is just too easy on normal and should have had a harder difficulty from the start, I felt the same way about FF7R remake, in that game you can luckily choose not to level up but I don't think that's a proper solution.

The game lets you play better, and it may even reward you for it with short fights but I think there should always be the option for it to require you play better.

The thing is higher difficulty in FFVIIR and FFXVI are not as brain dead as just increase enemies health and damage, they add new stuff like new attack pattern and in FFXVI case new enemy replacement.

Those difficulty are design around you having all abilities unlock, in my makes it less fun play that type difficulty without most of your tools still locked.

For me my first playthrough for FFVIIR and FFXVI is about enjoying the story and learning how the combat works then my second playthrough go really in to it like I did with FFVIIR and fight all the super bosses, it was most fun I had in games.

Tales of Arise had hard difficulty form get go but most enemies became damage sponges and AI party just couldn't keep up and just wasn't all that fun.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I mean, it’s creative I’ll give you that.

The core combat is not deep, it’s one of the weak spots of that game

I agree. I think the same thing about this game.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I agree. I think the same thing about this game.

I disagree, and I don’t. But you’re like two hours in

 

[FoxMcChief]

I disagree, and I don’t. But you’re like two hours in

That’s where a games combat should grab you most.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That’s where a games combat should grab you most.

It did grab me in two hours.

You’re not given the entire tool set though, the game is universally praised for its combat so maybe it’s just you

 

[FoxMcChief]

It did grab me in two hours.

You’re not given the entire tool set though, the game is universally praised for its combat so maybe it’s just you

It’s not just me. Have you been reading this thread and how the game is simple?

 

[Lethal01]

Giant spectacle fights are neat

The thing is higher difficulty in FFVIIR and FFXVI are not as brain dead as just increase enemies health and damage, they add new stuff like new attack pattern and in FFXVI case new enemy replacement.

For me my first playthrough for FFVIIR and FFXVI is about enjoying the story and learning how the combat works then my second playthrough go really in to it like I did with FFVIIR and fight all the super bosses, it was most fun I had in games.

Tales of Arise had hard difficulty form get go but most enemies became damage sponges and AI party just couldn't keep up and just wasn't all that fun.

Sure balance is important, but while increasing the damage the enemies do may be an easy thing to do, having enemies that don't do enough damage is something that can easily eliminate any challenge from the game.

There should be a hard mode designed around you not having all the abilities and a max level charachter. Doing this and making it good isn't some mindblowing feat, it's been done. They simply didn't want to and I think that was a bad decision even if some people don't care about it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I mean, it’s creative I’ll give you that.

The core combat is not deep, it’s one of the weak spots of that game

Ok.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It’s not just me. Have you been reading this thread and how the game is simple?

Yeah there’s a few people with that opinion, in the minority.

I don’t see how it’s simple. Essentially every button on the controller is used to facilitate actions and you are constantly switching them up, it’s more involved than the vast majority of action RPGs

 

[Danjin44]

 

[Madflavor]

I think even having this argument about the combat, when a good number of people haven’t experienced the tougher fights, harder difficulties, reworked encounters in NG+, and all the Eikons abilities, is an aggressive waste of time.

It’s fine if some people aren’t being grabbed by the combat early on. There’s a good chance it’ll click with them later in the game. For now just let them complain.

 

[Porticus]

It's meant for the 99%, not the 1%.

The 99% play games to have fun and see the story or whatever. Final Fantasy was always that kind of franchise. There has never been a Final Fantasy title where the goal was to kill the player 99 times per boss fight.

I was just thinking how bosses in previous FF titles often went out of their way not to kill you. FFX is probably the best example of that, as it was a true turn based combat system.

Final Fantasy is so well known for bosses that don't try to kill you that when you do lose often it's because you're literally scripted to in order to advance the story.

Are you trolling right?

 

[Nankatsu]

It’s not just me. Have you been reading this thread and how the game is simple?

Same way you state TotK combat is deep (which I don't agree), so is the combat system here. Both games depend on how much time you decide to invest in them.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I think even having this argument about the combat, when a good number of people haven’t experienced the tougher fights, harder difficulties, reworked encounters in NG+, and all the Eikons abilities, is an aggressive waste of time.

It’s fine if some people aren’t being grabbed by the combat early on. There’s a good chance it’ll click with them later in the game. For now just let them complain.

Agreed. Personally I'm enjoying how the combat opens up and upgrading different skills to chain into combos.

 

[Madflavor]

Agreed. Personally I'm enjoying how the combat opens up and upgrading different skills to chain into combos.

I’m far enough to know that this combat system fucks, and is going to be amazing in Final Fantasy mode.