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[FalconPunch]

Console hardware has always given better value. Don't disagree there. There's a reason consoles are regularly sold at a loss or with very small profit margins.

However, on the PC side, games are cheaper, there's no fees for online gaming, and you just get waaaayyyy more functionality, whether it's modding games, emulating, or doing endless tasks outside of the gaming realm.


And again, with that PC I shared above, it's an ITX build which immediately makes it more expensive. A traditional ATX build would be about $100 cheaper.

The notion that pc games are cheaper aside from gray market keys is false. I game on pc and for the big games, the sales between consoles and pc are roughly equivalent. As for modding, XBOX supports modding in games that allow modding. Finally, regardless of ITX, it's just a bad price for the build. That PC is already out of date and won't last till the rest of the gen without requiring upgrades. That is if you want to play graphically challenging games.....

The value people are looking at isn't just teraflops for dollar. There are the games, the different uses they may have, customizability, etc.

Perhaps? Looking at what was presented, I'm comparing the value I would get at this point last gen vs the value I get today. There's a clear degradation imo but, I could be wrong. I'm quite open to that possibility.

 

[draliko]

The notion that pc games are cheaper aside from gray market keys is false. I game on pc and for the big games, the sales between consoles and pc are roughly equivalent. As for modding, XBOX supports modding in games that allow modding. Finally, regardless of ITX, it's just a bad price for the build. That PC is already out of date and won't last till the rest of the gen without requiring upgrades. That is if you want to play graphically challenging games.....

Perhaps? Looking at what was presented, I'm comparing the value I would get at this point last gen vs the value I get today. There's a clear degradation imo but, I could be wrong. I'm quite open to that possibility.

not compeltely true, just as of today kcd2 from steam is already 10€ cheaper than consoles 70€ psn 60€ steam 51€ from fanatical that isn't grey market, even if steam sales aren't as good as they used to be pc games are still cheaper 90% of the time, especially on d1 releases, MHW is 55€ from official stores, and 80€ on consoles

 

[Sgt. Pinback]

The notion that pc games are cheaper aside from gray market keys is false.

No, it isn't.

 

[Parazels]

For ≈ $2000 the best possible combination is
PS5 PRO + Switch 2 + OLED TV.

 

[Zathalus]

Perhaps? Looking at what was presented, I'm comparing the value I would get at this point last gen vs the value I get today. There's a clear degradation imo but, I could be wrong. I'm quite open to that possibility.

Is there? That PC is about 60% more expensive vs the base $450 model PS5. Back in early 2018 the PS4 was $300, so 60% more would have been $480. What kind of gaming PC was $480 back in early 2018? Something with a 4c4t Zen 1 and a 4GB 1050 with 8GB RAM?

If you leave consoles out of the equation, and simply go by inflation, then the equivalent value is still not that far off from what it was back in early 2018.

I’m not really see this value degradation for low to mid end PC gaming. At the extreme high end, it is absolutely the case, on that I’d agree.

 

[kiphalfton]

I saw so many prebuilt RTX 4060 PCs around Black Friday, for sub $700, this thread is laughable.

Sounds like you missed the boat. Especially since RTX 4000 series stuff isn't being sold anymore off the shelf, RTX 5000 series just released, not even all the product line up has been released, etc.

Now's the worst possible time to be buying anything as there isn't much available if you want to build yourself, and you missed all the holiday sales.

 

[Fess]

Sums up all of society right now to be honest. Companies have realized they can just make less product, create scarcity, and make more profits off of people with money who are willing to spend.

Yeah capitalism has been winning for far too long. I’m doing okay but have a fairly low salary compared to people here (~$30k/year) but I jumped on the stock market very early and just use stock market earnings to buy gaming things. I leave the regular salary to food and fuel and electricity and what’s needed for the kids etc. If the stock market collapses from the Trumpet and the Musketeer I won’t be able to afford PC gaming that’s for sure.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The notion that pc games are cheaper aside from gray market keys is false. I game on pc and for the big games, the sales between consoles and pc are roughly equivalent. As for modding, XBOX supports modding in games that allow modding. Finally, regardless of ITX, it's just a bad price for the build.

Perhaps? Looking at what was presented, I'm comparing the value I would get at this point last gen vs the value I get today. There's a clear degradation imo but, I could be wrong. I'm quite open to that possibility.

As someone pointed out, the price of a current console has also increased compared to the same point in the ps4 gen. Also dont try to compare the modding capabilities allowed by xbox to that of a PC, modding on xbox is the equivalent of a consolation prize.

That PC is already out of date and won't last till the rest of the gen without requiring upgrades. That is if you want to play graphically challenging games.....

we're already near the end of the gen you know. In theory there are only 2-3 years more of the current gen.

 

[darrylgorn]

Nah.

I have 3 laptops (2060, 3070, 4080) with steam deck and just got the couchmaster. If you're not forcing high end, then you will have the best gaming experience, imo.

 

[Chiggs]

Means a lot when 20 years ago PC was getting 0/3 console libraries but now they're getting 2/3.

But since the 360/PS3 era, the PC started to become the beneficiary of multi-platform titles. I played stuff like Dead Space, Far Cry 2, and more day/date with the console launches. And then factor in that a lot of the Xbox stuff has already been on PC, like Halo: MCC, Gears and Forza Horizon.

Also, it's not like all of the PlayStation games are represented. Sure, it's nice to get some of the titles, but we're missing A LOT of content.

Your original post reads like the floodgates have opened, when in reality it's a slow and steady trickle. Maybe that changes...but I really don't see Sony pulling a full-fledged Microsoft anytime soon.

 

[simpatico]

FOMO is at an all-time high until you consider that budget builds are still very much viable depending on how much you need fancy puddles on rain-soaked neon nights. 5800x3D's and 7700xt's exist

 

[ReBurn]

I'm pretty happy with it. I recently invested in a rig with a 4070ti Super and I really like it. I really don't think I'll upgrade to a 50 series card any time soon.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

But since the 360/PS3 era, the PC started to become the beneficiary of multi-platform titles. I played stuff like Dead Space, Far Cry 2, and more day/date with the console launches.

Multiplatforms were the first step but they weren't really getting the platform exclusives then though.

And then factor in that a lot of the Xbox stuff has already been on PC, like Halo: MCC, Gears and Forza Horizon.

Also, it's not like all of the PlayStation games are represented. Sure, it's nice to get some of the titles, but we're missing A LOT of content.

Your original post reads like the floodgates have opened, when in reality it's a slow and steady trickle. Maybe that changes...but I really don't see Sony pulling a full-fledged Microsoft anytime soon.

Kind of feels like the floodgates have opened. Outside of like GT, the flagship franchises have made their way over with other PS5 exclusives either released or on their way.

 

[TintoConCasera]

PC gets 99'5% of the games, has mods, community patches, free games up the ass, total customization and infinite backcompatibility. You just have to pay for it, and no you don't need a 50XX series card for any of that.

 

[StereoVsn]

Software wise it's been in the best place it's ever been in for while now.

Hardware wise though, the opposite, one of the worst. I would not want to be putting together a brand new build from scratch right now.



The issue is that a lot of people stayed on the sidelines thinking they were"poor value" all this time. Little did they know...

I feel personally attacked! Mistakes were made.

 

[Gaiff]

As for modding, XBOX supports modding in games that allow modding.

Imagine comparing the barebones trash modding scene on Xbox to PC.

 

[SmoothBrain]

Video Card: Sparkle GUARDIAN OC Arc B570 10 GB Video Card ($229.99 @ Amazon)

You know PC gaming is riding bad dragons unlubed when the best entry-level GPU is from Intel.

It's over y'all.

 

[skneogaf]

Not according to this post

 

[Zathalus]

You know PC gaming is riding bad dragons unlubed when the best entry-level GPU is from Intel.

It's over y'all.

You can still pick up a Radeon 7600 for around $250. Slightly more expensive, but slightly faster as well.

 

[analog_future]

You know PC gaming is riding bad dragons unlubed when the best entry-level GPU is from Intel.

It's over y'all.

These new Battlemage GPUs are legit! I'm glad to see a third valid option forming for customers. More competition is always good.

 

[SmoothBrain]

These new Battlemage GPUs are legit! I'm glad to see a third valid option forming for customers. More competition is always good.

I have no doubt about that, was considering to buy one myself. But I want to move over to Linux and AMD seems to have the least friction in terms of drivers.

It’s just… of all companies for Intel to compete in the entry level GPU market. And that is probably their best product right now.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

PC gaming is in a bad place from the sense that it's just unaffordable for a lot of people.

No one wants to spend £1000 just to play 1080p60.

You could buy a PS5 instead for less than £400.

My PC cost me £2500 (9800X3D + 64GB RAM + 4080 etc).

I gather the 6000 series GPUs won't be priced well either.

The second issue: Microstutter in a lot of PC games.

Nevertheless, PC games have superior pricing thanks to 3rd party key sellers eg CD Keys and I prefer the flexibility eg mods.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Right now is really good time to pick up 2nd hand 30XX GPU's.

 

[analog_future]

PC gaming is in a bad place from the sense that it's just unaffordable for a lot of people.

No one wants to spend £1000 just to play 1080p60.

You could buy a PS5 instead for less than £400.

My PC cost me £2500 (9800X3D + 64GB RAM + 4080 etc).

I gather the 6000 series GPUs won't be priced well either.

The second issue: Microstutter in a lot of PC games.

Nevertheless, PC games have superior pricing thanks to 3rd party key sellers eg CD Keys and I prefer the flexibility eg mods.

You can very easily pay ~£500 for 1080p/60, not £1000.

 

[Zathalus]

PC gaming is in a bad place from the sense that it's just unaffordable for a lot of people.

No one wants to spend £1000 just to play 1080p60.

You could buy a PS5 instead for less than £400.

My PC cost me £2500 (9800X3D + 64GB RAM + 4080 etc).

I gather the 6000 series GPUs won't be priced well either.

The second issue: Microstutter in a lot of PC games.

Nevertheless, PC games have superior pricing thanks to 3rd party key sellers eg CD Keys and I prefer the flexibility eg mods.

£1000 should get you a 1440p60 PC. That is a PC with a 4070 Super or 7800 XT.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

PC gaming is in a bad place from the sense that it's just unaffordable for a lot of people.

No one wants to spend £1000 just to play 1080p60.

You could buy a PS5 instead for less than £400.

My PC cost me £2500 (9800X3D + 64GB RAM + 4080 etc).

I gather the 6000 series GPUs won't be priced well either.

The second issue: Microstutter in a lot of PC games.

Nevertheless, PC games have superior pricing thanks to 3rd party key sellers eg CD Keys and I prefer the flexibility eg mods.

One thing that gets overlooked in these price comparisons is the fact that most people are going to need a PC anyways for non-gaming use. If you add what you'd pay for a console on top of a basic PC you can build a pretty decent gaming rig instead.

 

[Krathoon]

You can whip a decent priced pc with a 4070 video card quite easy these days. You don't have to use the latest CPU.

You can probably get away with 16gb ram.

 

[Krathoon]

Also, keyshops are great. You can get games at absurdly low prices sometimes.
I got the whole Serious Sam VR series for $4.

 

[UnrealEck]

One thing that gets overlooked in these price comparisons is the fact that most people are going to need a PC anyways for non-gaming use. If you add what you'd pay for a console on top of a basic PC you can build a pretty decent gaming rig instead.

I was just about to say this too.
My PC is where I'm at when I'm at home. I have it to read, research, watch things for education or entertainment, I listen to music on it, I use it to communicate with people voice or text, I use it to edit videos.

You can do some of those on a console too but it's not the same as having a snappy, responsive PC and a keyboard and mouse to navigate a massive wealth of apps and web browsers. The choice of sound peripherals is also much much bigger on PC.

A lot of the time if a game has an issue there's a workaround for it or a straight up community made fix on PC too. Whereas on console you need to just wait for the developer to patch it.

 

[Sentenza]

In terms of software offering PC gaming is in an excellent place.
Arguably possibly the best it's ever been since the mid '90s. While these were years of extreme experimentation and diversity of offer, now we have an insane amount of options.
Entire genres that were on the verge of disappearing during the early 2000 now have finally found their footing and have been revived in a way or the other, indie and "AA" games offer something for every taste, while more console games than ever before are (almost systematically) getting ported on the platform.

In terms of hardware, though, it's fucking garbage and a case of "suffering from success". Almost every single component is getting more expensive because the demand keeps outpacing the offer, the supply chain is constantly starved and manufacturers have no reason whatsoever to be aggressive with their pricing.
I'm not even sure there's any reason to HOPE for the better in the near future, because all signs seem to point on the trend continuing.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

One thing that gets overlooked in these price comparisons is the fact that most people are going to need a PC anyways for non-gaming use. If you add what you'd pay for a console on top of a basic PC you can build a pretty decent gaming rig instead.

I was just about to say this too.
My PC is where I'm at when I'm at home. I have it to read, research, watch things for education or entertainment, I listen to music on it, I use it to communicate with people voice or text, I use it to edit videos.

You can do some of those on a console too but it's not the same as having a snappy, responsive PC and a keyboard and mouse to navigate a massive wealth of apps and web browsers. The choice of sound peripherals is also much much bigger on PC.

A lot of the time if a game has an issue there's a workaround for it or a straight up community made fix on PC too. Whereas on console you need to just wait for the developer to patch it.

I'm not saying that a good amount of people don't have a need for a computer of some sort, but a ton of people don't own any sort of computer as basically everything can be done on a phone or a tablet. I know a ton of people that don't have any sort of computer and the vast majority that do use a mac for everyday computing including me.

My PC is literally only used to play games 99% of the time and the other 1% is me not bothering to switch over once I'm done playing a game.

I guess what I'm saying is that while yes this is a factor it's also very generalized and not realistic for a lot of people.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I'm not saying that a good amount of people don't have a need for a computer of some sort, but a ton of people don't own any sort of computer as basically everything can be done on a phone or a tablet. I know a ton of people that don't have any sort of computer and the vast majority that do use a mac for everyday computing including me.

Pretty much everyone i know has a computer for something, there are shittons of things that can't be done properly with a phone or tablet (try writing a report on a phone, i did and it's absolute torture), the people who don't in all likelihood use one at work and do the "PC stuff" over there.

The Mac example just goes back to the case of the person having to buy a Computer on top of a Console, and thus paying more at the end of the day.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

Pretty much everyone i know has a computer for something, there are shittons of things that can't be done properly with a phone or tablet (try writing a report on a phone, i did and it's absolute torture), the people who don't in all likelihood use one at work and do the "PC stuff" over there.

The Mac example just goes back to the case of the person having to buy a Computer on top of a Console, and thus paying more at the end of the day.

But also like if somebody chooses a console over a pc it's generally because of preference. Of all the Mac users I know nobody uses it because they have to, it's because they choose to. Same with console users. People will use what fit's their needs and what they prefer the majority of the time.

Nobody needs to try to convince someone to choose a certain platform, and nobody should ever judge someone based off of their platform of choice.

Also yes a lot of people use computers at work, but how many of those people need a computer at home? Nobody really knows and even stuff like surveys isn’t going to really provide good results. My personal experience and the people I know may not align with yours and that can be for a bunch of reasons and maybe neither of ours lines up with somebody else.

People also forget that enthusiast forums like this aren’t representative of the real world.

 

[delirium trigger]

PC gaming is definitely more popular than ever and you can play almost everything now outside of nintendo.

 

[poppabk]

£1000 should get you a 1440p60 PC. That is a PC with a 4070 Super or 7800 XT.

We have upscaling a 1080p60 PC is also a 4K60 PC

 

[delirium trigger]

Do people think consoles are actually 4k just because you plugged it into a 4k tv?

 

[Guilty_AI]

But also like if somebody chooses a console over a pc it's generally because of preference. Of all the Mac users I know nobody uses it because they have to, it's because they choose to. Same with console users. People will use what fit's their needs and what they prefer the majority of the time.

Nobody needs to try to convince someone to choose a certain platform, and nobody should ever judge someone based off of their platform of choice.

Also yes a lot of people use computers at work, but how many of those people need a computer at home? Nobody really knows and even stuff like surveys isn’t going to really provide good results. My personal experience and the people I know may not align with yours and that can be for a bunch of reasons and maybe neither of ours lines up with somebody else.

People also forget that enthusiast forums like this aren’t representative of the real world.

Nobody is trying to convince anyone, we're just pointing out this comparison of "power per price" people here often bring up here isn't an accurate representation of the thought process people use when buying a PC nor of its true value, neither are statements such as "there's no point to a PC with console specs"

 

[SHAKEZ]

If you only play AAA games maybe, but that's not great everywhere.
Just don't make a build trying to play everything at ultra 4k + RT, unless you can do it of course.
My hot take os that PC gaming is fining, but game development as a whole took a nosedive in quality, framegen was supposed to make already well optimized games to run even better, but devs have other ideas...

 

[Senua]

PC gaming is definitely more popular than ever and you can play almost everything now outside of nintendo.

You can play Nintendo too

 

[Renoir]

yes. if that Monster Hunter World beta is an indication.
PC .. monsters are made of paper mache
PS5 everything runs fine.
im running a 4070 on my pc.

 

[FalconPunch]

Imagine comparing the barebones trash modding scene on Xbox to PC.

Mods are mods. PC has more mods for sure but it also has an unfavorable ratio of trash mods. For those that have the spare time to sink into mods, I'm sure it's an outstanding selling point. Unfortunately, most people don't use or care about mods. I don't care much for mods to begin with since greater than 95% of them are trash, break with every patch, etc. Couldn't be bothered as to me it's hardly a selling point to me.

 

[ArtHands]

'PC gaming shows the strongest growth at 4.2% and 8.1% for 2024E and 2025E,, respectively. It’s set to reach $31.4 billion in consumer spending this year. Its momentum underscores the platform's enduring appeal and adaptability.'

From the same source WSJ used above.

It’s a console fanboy thing to post things with misleading context

 

[Leo9]

PC doesn't make any sense unless you aim for high end. RTX 5080 and 90 still can't do 4K natively at 30 FPS with path tracing. Imagine a mid-range GPU or even a lower-end one.

If you're just gonna game at 60 FPS you might as well buy a PS5 Pro and call it a day.

Your post doesn't make any sense.

There are many reasons to play on PC, and most of them have nothing to do with performance. Path tracing is just a bonus.

• Game variety: PC has a much larger game library, including genres that aren't even available on consoles. Good luck playing a MOBA like Dota or an RTS on a console.
• Backward compatibility.
• Mods: You can download and play classic masterpieces like KOTOR 2 with dozens of mods via Steam Workshop in just a couple of clicks.
• Input choice: Why would I play a serious FPS like DOOM with a controller? A high-quality gaming mouse offers a far better experience.
• You're not at the mercy of developers: Almost every game benefits from stronger hardware. Meanwhile, the PS5 Pro isn't even supported by mega blockbusters like RDR2 or Cyberpunk, along with many older games.
• Free online.
• Cheaper games.
• Ultrawide support.
• And yes, potentially higher performance and high refresh gaming.

 

[HRK69]

PC doesn't make any sense unless you aim for high end. RTX 5080 and 90 still can't do 4K natively at 30 FPS with path tracing. Imagine a mid-range GPU or even a lower-end one.

If you're just gonna game at 60 FPS you might as well buy a PS5 Pro and call it a day.

Tell me you are a Playstation fanboy without telling me you are a PlayStation fanboy

 

[spons]

Here is a somewhat older budget build

Here's the problem: going NVIDIA for lower-end or mid-range GPUs. The 1050 Ti is a travesty, and was a travesty at the time too. The RX 400/500 series were much better in terms of both pricing and performance. Looking at the Steam hardware survey, about everybody and their dog is buying these low-end parts with terrible performance per buck cards from them. Get Intel and AMD if you're on a budget.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

I'm not talking about the completely overpriced 5080 and 5090, although these are also included. I'm more concerned with getting started in PC gaming at lower budget. There are no more Ryzen 3 processors. The same with Nvidia, there was simply no 4050 desktop card. Of course there are still alternatives from Amd(GPU) and Intel(CPU), but they are usually worse or lack important features.

I wonder if PC gaming can go on like this for much longer. If most stuff only comes out for high end or with high end prices? How do you see it? Am I exaggerating? Or is pc gaming in a bad place right now?


Here is a somewhat older budget build

AMD replaced Ryzen 3 (current gen heavily cutdown CPU for a cheaper price) with AM4 (last gen platform filled to the brim with cheap CPUs). The industry has been going in this direction due to the rising cost of new nodes. There's a certain economic threshold were you're better off selling an older higher end model as the budget option rather then selling a new low end model, Apple has been doing this and many others. This is also where Nvidia is at, instead of selling a 4050 and 4050ti Nvidia now sells the 3050 6GB, 3050 8GB and 3060 with the 4060 being above that in price.


The replacement to the 1050ti there is the 3050. The replacement to getting that AM4 motherboard is getting an AM4 motherboard . Instead of buying a 3600 you can now buy a 5600 or 5700 or even better a 5700x3d. Everything else is the same. So no PC gaming is actually in a great place, the best it's been imo. What's not in a great place is Moore's law and that's fucking up all electronics (this is why consoles haven't had a price cut and at times have even gone up in price from launch).

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

PC doesn't make any sense unless you aim for high end. RTX 5080 and 90 still can't do 4K natively at 30 FPS with path tracing. Imagine a mid-range GPU or even a lower-end one.

If you're just gonna game at 60 FPS you might as well buy a PS5 Pro and call it a day.

A 4060 can do path tracing surprisingly well (not at 4k). Meanwhile a PS5 Pro would spontaneously explode at the suggestions. PS5 Pro also doesn't game at 60fps natively, it also has to use upscaling like the 5080 and 90.

At this rate you should be worried about the PS6 beating the 4090 let alone matching the 5090.

 

[Zathalus]

You can play Nintendo too

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Yes and no IMO.

Positives

• More games than ever before with Japanese devs finally getting into the PC game in the last few years. Some holdouts but the vast majority of devs support PC.
• Xbox Day 1 releases, and delayed PlayStation releases.
• The rest of the positives are really just things inherent to PC gaming and hasn't really changed over the years including: freedom of hardware, peripherals, free online, digital refunds, etc.

Negatives

• PC hardware is at an all time low IMO. We have $2000 GPUs that even a few generations ago would have been $700. Don't get me wrong the new GPUs are impressive and I get that some people think they are good value but we have $2000 GPUs that don't really perform all that much better then the previous gen. It used to be that a XX60 would beat the XX70 from last gen.
• Related to the previous point hardware is just expensive in general, and the fact that it's become what is essentially a 1 horse race in the GPU sector doesn't help. I just don't get the same price to performance ratio that I used to get.
• Over reliance on stuff like upscaling and frame generation. I love DLSS and I turn it on in every game that I can but when a 5090 can't get 60fps without frame gen and DLSS something is wrong. Part of me just thinks that devs aren't bothering to optimize their games as much since they can fall back on these technologies.
• Also just shit ports in general. I'm so sick of traversal stutter and stutter in general.

Negatives not specific to PC

• There really isn't any identity left in gaming. I'd be lying if I said I don't miss when each and every platform had something unique, and had exclusives that made you want to own them all. Nintendo is essentially the only company with guaranteed exclusives. PC gaming used to have a very specific identity and now every platform plays the same games, and looking at the top played games on PC is sad.
• Related to the last one is just the state of the gaming industry in general. Games take too long to make and cost too much money. GAAS dominate the landscape with most being predatory.
• COVID is also to blame for a lot of this on all platforms.

Lmao you weren't getting a 750mm² 512bit GPU for $700 a few generations ago. The 5090 is massive the most massive we've ever had (surprisingly not the most expensive we've ever had tho *cough* RTX Titan).

 

[Zathalus]

Lmao you weren't getting a 750mm² 512bit GPU for $700 a few generations ago. The 5090 is massive the most massive we've ever had (surprisingly not the most expensive we've ever had tho *cough* RTX Titan).

Most expensive would actually be the Titan Z. Now that was a stupid GPU.