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[MoxManiac]

I actually like these bans. I stop playing standard because of how unfun it became. hated going up against u/w flash.

You're going to wish you were playing against u/w flash when your opponent combos you out on turn 4

 

[duxstar]

I am interested in seeing what HeebyGB has to say about the combo deck. He normally builds answer everything type decks , and i would imagine u/b control decks having an easier time than I am. Grasp of Darkness and Unlicensed Disintegration seem like the 2 best spells to fight it.

We could see just a B/r vs control/combo meta game

 

[RuinerPrime]

You're going to wish you were playing against u/w flash when your opponent combos you out on turn 4

ha yeah that's true. I had doubts that they would ban a card before its even released. I can totally see it going in the next ban update.

EDIT: Wichu has the best avatar

 

[Firemind]

I sat out this Standard season, so I guess this makes the choice of what to build next much easier.

Jeskai flicker rip Reflector Mage and Saheeli's affordability
Bant flicker rip Reflector Mage
some sort of UG delirium rip Emrakul
Grixis control
Esper artifacts rip Copter

Bonus: has game against cats.

Grixis Control is going to be amazing when Amonkhet releases. Mark my words!

Spoiler

Library of Alexandria reprint incoming

 

[bigkrev]

 

[Supast4r]

You're going to wish you were playing against u/w flash when your opponent combos you out on turn 4

I'm really going to laugh if this is just some random tier 2 deck in standard while everyone here is clamoring that it's like twin.

 

[G.ZZZ]

They don't even write "Legacy: no changes" anymore FeelsBadMan

RIP in pepperoni survival.

 

[Supast4r]

LMAO

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm really going to laugh if this is just some random tier 2 deck in standard while everyone here is clamoring that it's like twin.

People are clamoring because it's like Twin.

 

[Dysun]

Reflector Mage ban feels so late
Gitaxian probe is also another odd one

Golgari, Emrakul, and Copter: well deserved

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I'm really going to laugh if this is just some random tier 2 deck in standard while everyone here is clamoring that it's like twin.

tbf it also just lost some strong pieces. I'll have to do some tinkering first to say if it's still as strong.

 

[traveler]

Shit, completely missed that this was hitting a week early. I was going to offload my emrakuls and copters too. Losing a $100 or so to an unscheduled announcement kind of hurts. :/

I expected/hoped to see:

Standard: Cat, Gideon, Emmy, and Copter banned.
Modern: GGT, Gitaxian Probe, and SSG banned.
Legacy: Top banned.

Actually surprised they were even kind of close to that. No cat ban to go along with nailing all of the other decks seems crazy though, as what can even fight it now?

Probably happiest about the probe ban. It's just a stupid card that I thought might get away with it for a long time since it's not obviously broken. Having an effectively free look at an opponent's hand, trimming your deck size down, and fueling delve (and storm, were it legal) is just too much value. I feel ok buying into modern now, although these bans will shake things up a bit.

 

[RuinerPrime]

so with troll gone can Dredge still be competitive?

 

[SigmasonicX]

To the people saying the Reflector Mage ban is too late to matter, remember that BFZ is still in Standard after Amonkhet releases.

 

[Santiako]

so with troll gone can Dredge still be competitive?

Yeah, it's probably not a tier 1 oppressive deck any more, just swaps in Golgari Thugs/Darkblast and runs with it. It's much weaker to anger of the gods and graffdigger's cage now, but other than that it'll be ok.

 

[y2dvd]

RIP my FNM Promo G-probes. I think it's fair tho lol.

 

[bigkrev]

Yeah, it's probably not a tier 1 oppressive deck any more, just swaps in Golgari Thugs/Darkblast and runs with it. It's much weaker to anger of the gods and graffdigger's cage now, but other than that it'll be ok.

Yeah, in the face of Cage, it could just slap Grave Troll down as a 7/7 or larger to take over the game. Thug is a much worse card, and your dredges are going to be 1 card less on average- instead of 6 or 5 from Troll/Imp, you are now 5 or 4 from Imp/Thug

 

[Joe Molotov]

Deck: Mono Red Haste

//Lands
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Aether Hub
12 Mountain

//Creatures
4 Bomat Courier

4 Falkenrath Gorger

4 Inventor's Apprentice

2 Kari Zev, Skyship Raider

2 Lathnu Hellion

4 Reckless Bushwhacker

4 Scrapheap Scrounger

4 Village Messenger

//Spells
4 Harnessed Lightning

4 Incendiary Flow

4 Shock

//Sideboard
4 Collective Defiance

4 Hope of Ghirapur

4 Kari Zev's Expertise

1 Lathnu Hellion

2 Pia Nalaar

Display deck statistics

Hopefully it's good enough to win me a few packs at FNM.

 

[RuinerPrime]

Hopefully it's good enough to win me a few packs at FNM.

totally might steal this for a FNM or 2

 

[SigmasonicX]

Daily Update includes Copycat

 

[pelicansurf]

So is there more than one combo in the upcoming Standard or is it just the Cat/Saheeli combo?

 

[Joe Molotov]

So is there more than one combo in the upcoming Standard or is it just the Cat/Saheeli combo?

 

[Santiako]

Stolen from reddit:

GGT's time in Modern lol

 

[Imperfected]

Not really surprised. Like I said, it just isn't reasonable for them to stifle Kaladesh and Aether Revolt sales by banning out the combo people are going to be furiously spending for in the coming weeks.

I'm honestly surprised they even banned Smuggler's Copter. Less surprised about Emrakul and especially Reflector Mage since those sets are going into the dusk of their sales cycles, even with the extended set rotation.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The bans had to be thrown together recently otherwise they'd been in the beta.

So is there more than one combo in the upcoming Standard or is it just the Cat/Saheeli combo?

Panharmonicom + 2 cats also works. There's also paradox engine + cryptology rites + sage crafter thingy + either the energy elephant or duskwatch recruiter.
Panharmonicom + Drowner + Eldrazi Displacer also goes infinite in both mana and creatures.
Reckless fireweaver + inifinite thraben inspector flickers through various methods is infinite damage as well.

 

[HK-47]

Why ban reflector mage after company is gone? Why isnt Gideon banned instead? WTF is going on. Also it seemed like Flash was on the downspiral. BG and Marvel had new brews that did much better against it.

 

[bigkrev]

Sperling wrote about the bannings http://www.channelfireball.com/arti...pter-reflector-mage-grave-troll-probe-banned/ . He also commented on Mox Opal/Modern bans in general

Affinity has fallen out of favor, and Lantern is not quite tier 1, so I guess that’s the reason. But if Dredge had to get nerfed because it consumes 3-4 sideboard slots in any non-combo deck, why isn’t Affinity getting its most obvious nerf?

Many believe the Modern format is a train going too fast toward a disaster that can’t be avoided. It seems really, really hard to manage a format this way while building up player confidence and maintaining credibility with a rational set of guidelines. I’m not even saying they’re doing a bad job, I’m just noting how hard the job is and how much I wouldn’t want it on my plate. When you ban Twin, something else annoys or kills people on turn 4. There’s anything but a shortage of non-interactive cards and unhealthy play patterns—that’s what happens with enough format-legal cards together in a single format.

Modern’s whack-a-mole banned list is now the format’s defining feature. If you enjoy the format, adjust your expectations accordingly and continue to play it. If you don’t enjoy the format, try not to get to angry with R&D’s decisions—they have a near-impossible job or an impossible job, depending on who you ask.

Also, CFB is doing Frontier side events at all their GPs this year https://twitter.com/ChannelFireball/status/818274394636066816

 

[Simply Sarah]

If anything, I'm a bit surprised they didn't hit Become Immense.

 

[Santiako]

It would be HILARIOUS if Gitaxian Probe is in Modern Masters 2017. HI-LA-RIOUS.

 

[HK-47]

If anything, I'm a bit surprised they didn't hit Become Immense.

They are seeing if Probe helps the turn 3 meta, since many of the turn 3 decks run that card to scout the way or build power. I thought it likely they were gonna ban one card and see where things end up before going after other shared cards. And probes hits more decks that they may haved wanted to hit, like Kiln Fiend.

 

[kirblar]

If anything, I'm a bit surprised they didn't hit Become Immense.

They want to see how things shake out w/ Probe gone. It makes sense.

 

[Santiako]

With Git Probe gone, Infect can't really afford to play 4 Become Immense and Death Shadow is probably a dead deck now anyway. Ban makes sense, if BI is still a problem they can ban it later.

 

[pelicansurf]

The bans had to be thrown together recently otherwise they'd been in the beta.

Panharmonicom + 2 cats also works. There's also paradox engine + cryptology rites + sage crafter thingy + either the energy elephant or duskwatch recruiter.
Panharmonicom + Drowner + Eldrazi Displacer also goes infinite in both mana and creatures.
Reckless fireweaver + inifinite thraben inspector flickers through various methods is infinite damage as well.

That's uh, a lot of going infinite, through various colors, but specifically Jeskai and maybe Temur. I feel like there could be a deck that's 100% combos; like 3-4 different infinites.

Feels a little dumb, especially when the bread butter combo involves 2 cards and dispel backup.

 

[MoxManiac]

Why isn't emrakul worthless yet

Is it frontier

It's frontier, isn't it

 

[Imperfected]

Why ban reflector mage after company is gone? Why isnt Gideon banned instead?

Just my perspective and not meant to be reflective/insightful into Wizard's own, but I would generally favor banning problematic Commons/Uncommons over problematic Mythic Rares, all else being equal.

You ban something Common or Uncommon from a set in print or recently out of print and no one's likely to be put out by it. You ban a Mythic Rare from a set that's still trading heavily, and you're gonna get some blowback not just from the card capitalists, but also from more casual players who happened to snag a copy or two in drafts/sealed and feel slighted by the whole thing.

I mean, opening a Mythic Rare is supposed to be one of the fundamental "feel good" moments in their consumer reward schedule. It's the flashing lights and madcap ringing of the slot machine hitting jackpot. You don't want to run over and stamp BANNED on the card as soon as they open it if you can possibly avoid it, whereas by contrast most people don't care much if their pile of Uncommons becomes fodder for the 20-for-$1 box.

 

[charlequin]

In 3 months!

In six weeks!

I am worried about the overall health of the game though.

Magic is something like six times as big as it was in the Lorwyn era, it has a lot of room to fall without even getting close to being in trouble. This is hardly the first time WotC has fucked up Standard and they've actually done a decent job of having more pressure valves (Modern, Commander, etc.) to keep people interested in playing when they do.

Reflector Mage ban feels so late
Gitaxian probe is also another odd one

Probe makes multiple different combo-win type decks just straight-up better and brings down the average kill turn by some measurable fraction, while contributing nothing positive to the format. It feels like basically a free ban to me.

I'm honestly surprised they even banned Smuggler's Copter. Less surprised about Emrakul and especially Reflector Mage since those sets are going into the dusk of their sales cycles, even with the extended set rotation.

I think you're seriously overestimating how much the marketing concern of selling current packs plays into these decisions. Cratering Standard attendance with cards people hate costs them a lot more money than dropping some desirable cards from recent sets.

Why ban reflector mage after company is gone? Why isnt Gideon banned instead? WTF is going on. Also it seemed like Flash was on the downspiral. BG and Marvel had new brews that did much better against it.

Gideon is obnoxious and curve-tightening across a few different possible archetypes in a way that isn't that destructive to the format as a whole. Reflector Mage is a card people hate and had the potential to make one exact specific deck the obvious dominant force in the new Standard where its natural predators were getting taken out. You lose absolutely nothing by hitting Reflector Mage here.

Sperling wrote about the bannings http://www.channelfireball.com/arti...pter-reflector-mage-grave-troll-probe-banned/ . He also commented on Mox Opal/Modern bans in general

This is a surprisingly good writeup across the board.

 

[aidan]

Just my perspective and not meant to be reflective/insightful into Wizard's own, but I would generally favor banning problematic Commons/Uncommons over problematic Mythic Rares, all else being equal.

You ban something Common or Uncommon from a set in print or recently out of print and no one's likely to be put out by it. You ban a Mythic Rare from a set that's still trading heavily, and you're gonna get some blowback not just from the card capitalists, but also from more casual players who happened to snag a copy or two in drafts/sealed and feel slighted by the whole thing.

I mean, opening a Mythic Rare is supposed to be one of the fundamental "feel good" moments in their consumer reward schedule. It's the flashing lights and madcap ringing of the slot machine hitting jackpot. You don't want to run over and stamp BANNED on the card as soon as they open it if you can possibly avoid it, whereas by contrast most people don't care much if their pile of Uncommons becomes fodder for the 20-for-$1 box.

Even better: WotC remembering the mission statement for Mythic Rare and no longer printing important, powerful, tournament-playable build-around cards at that rarity.

 

[Imperfected]

Even better: WotC remembering the mission statement for Mythic Rare and no longer printing important, powerful, tournament-playable build-around cards at that rarity.

That would be good, though honestly if that were the worst sin they were guilty of this week we'd be in a lot better shape.

 

[charlequin]

You ban something Common or Uncommon from a set in print or recently out of print and no one's likely to be put out by it. You ban a Mythic Rare from a set that's still trading heavily, and you're gonna get some blowback not just from the card capitalists, but also from more casual players who happened to snag a copy or two in drafts/sealed and feel slighted by the whole thing.

One of my team members came up to me after a meeting this morning and just said "I had five Emrakuls ;_;" lololol

Even better: WotC remembering the mission statement for Mythic Rare and no longer printing important, powerful, tournament-playable build-around cards at that rarity.

I mean complain about mythics if you want but they literally never said that

 

[Simply Sarah]

They are seeing if Probe helps the turn 3 meta, since many of the turn 3 decks run that card to scout the way or build power. I thought it likely they were gonna ban one card and see where things end up before going after other shared cards. And probes hits more decks that they may haved wanted to hit, like Kiln Fiend.

They want to see how things shake out w/ Probe gone. It makes sense.

I suppose. I do wonder how long they'll give it.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

That's uh, a lot of going infinite, through various colors, but specifically Jeskai and maybe Temur. I feel like there could be a deck that's 100% combos; like 3-4 different infinites.

Feels a little dumb, especially when the bread butter combo involves 2 cards and dispel backup.

Oh there's also whirler virtuoso and a couple modules/panharmonicon.
I'm a huge fan of aetherflux storm which isn't infinite but usually ends up drawing more than half the deck and shooting you for 50.

There's a weird mono blue deck I also played against that used statuary (grants imrpovise) + the enchantment that gives you clues when casting instants + part the water veil (extra turn spell).

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't understand why keep saying "well we need to see how this shakes out."

It's a 2-card instant game win comb. The combo pieces cost 3 and 4 colors in the color that has counterspells. It's busted, period end of story.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

I love this note in the article:

(Note: Cards from Aether Revolt are not yet in Gatherer, so they will not show up the same in the deck list below. To view them, visit our Card Image Gallery.)

 

[bigkrev]

Why isn't emrakul worthless yet

Is it frontier

It's frontier, isn't it

Smuggler's Copter went from $12 to $7 at CFB, and buylist has gone from $6 to $1.50
Emrakul has gone from $24.99 to 15.99 at CFB, and buylist has gone from $15 to $5

So they have dropped their price to $1 above their old buylist price on the cards, and tanked the new buylist price. The values will go down over time.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Even better: WotC remembering the mission statement for Mythic Rare and no longer printing important, powerful, tournament-playable build-around cards at that rarity.

The statement they made was that it wouldn't be the case that every Mythic Rare was needed for Standard. It has always been the case that most Mythics are garbage rares.

 

[Firemind]

Gideon is obnoxious and curve-tightening across a few different possible archetypes in a way that isn't that destructive to the format as a whole. Reflector Mage is a card people hate and had the potential to make one exact specific deck the obvious dominant force in the new Standard where its natural predators were getting taken out. You lose absolutely nothing by hitting Reflector Mage here.

Yeah but to be fair it's just a Man-O'-War. The needed tracking of the bounced creature is unintuitive though so I can't say it's undeserved.

 

[charlequin]

I don't understand why keep saying "well we need to see how this shakes out."

Because Magic players are notoriously awful at understanding what cards and decks are good and so you should basically never listen to them about anything balance-related that hasn't been proven with tourney results.

 

[Simply Sarah]

Yeah but to be fair it's just a Man-O'-War. The needed tracking of the bounced creature is unintuitive though so I can't say it's undeserved.

It's a Man-O'-War that prevents the bounced card or any copies of it from being replayed. Man-O'-War was already a great card even without being able to shut down hands.

 

[bigkrev]

Also, I can't imagine being a Yugioh player WRT ban list changes
http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/limited/

There last ban list had 13 cards added and 3 removed!

 

[charlequin]

The statement they made was that it wouldn't be the case that every Mythic Rare was needed for Standard. It has always been the case that most Mythics are garbage rares.

Yeah, there was exactly one recent season where cards were getting played in direct proportion to their rarity (i.e. all decks were mythic-heavy) and people howled plenty about it.

Yeah but to be fair it's just a Man-O'-War. The needed tracking of the bounced creature is unintuitive though so I can't say it's undeserved.

See I think this is how the card got out the door: someone looked at it and said "it's just a Man-O'-War." But both of the changes are significant: 3 toughness makes it way way more useful overall on the board and tempo-blocking the card for a turn is huge in a format that has as many fast haymakers as this one.