Marathon will be a premium, paid - but not 'full price' - Extraction Shooter with 3 maps at launch
- Thread starter MMaRsu
- Start date
kevboard
Member
They should get Shroud to help with the development on a multi-player game. He's good at games so he must know what makes a good game...
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
People are convinced that F2P is this panacea that guarantees success. It's a difficult model to navigate and without immense playerbase, you're going to fold pretty quickly.
It peaked at 30K CCU despite being F2P and the player base crashed almost immediately.
F2P is a dangerous model and I'm willing to bet that fewer and fewer games will go the F2P route moving forward. Especially in the western market.
It makes sense for a game like Marvel Rivals because you have such a large marvel fanbase and content generation and monetization are relatively easy.
Competing with other F2P games that already have established popularity is hard even if you go F2P. Some think that a premium price is a barrier to entry, but it really depends on what kind of product you're delivering.
If Marathon can follow in the footsteps of Helldivers, I expect we'll start seeing a lot more games coming out for 20-50 dollars.
Judge Magister
Member
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
F2P is the panacea for people who don't understand multiplayer. In reality, fun is the panacea. People will pay for fun experiences.
Btw...Friends Per Second absolutely eviscerated Marathon.
They all agreed that there's no tension, you do PvE more often than PvP - The PvE is outright "bad", and they have no idea the vision or hook that Bungie needs to find to make this game work. Absolutely brutal commentary from early access media.
It's one thing for a single person to say these things but they all seem in agreement that this game is in trouble.
James Sawyer Ford
detach from this train wreck before it's too late!
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VolticArchangel
Member
Game getting panned by influencers in previews is already not a good sign.
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coachmcguirk91
Member
F2P is the panacea for people who don't understand multiplayer. In reality, fun is the panacea. People will pay for fun experiences.
Btw...Friends Per Second absolutely eviscerated Marathon.
They all agreed that there's no tension, you do PvE more often than PvP - The PvE is outright "bad", and they have no idea the vision or hook that Bungie needs to find to make this game work. Absolutely brutal commentary from early access media.
It's one thing for a single person to say these things but they all seem in agreement that this game is in trouble.
I love how Friends Per Second are the gold standard of whether a gaas game will work or not. I don't think Skillup or Jake even engage with PvP type gaas games on the regular. I know Skillup is a big Destiny PvE fan and it sounds like he's bummed Marathon is not that
I could list a dozen of other content creators, who make their living off PvP games, that feel differently
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
F2P is the panacea for people who don't understand multiplayer. In reality, fun is the panacea. People will pay for fun experiences.
Btw...Friends Per Second absolutely eviscerated Marathon.
They all agreed that there's no tension, you do PvE more often than PvP - The PvE is outright "bad", and they have no idea the vision or hook that Bungie needs to find to make this game work. Absolutely brutal commentary from early access media.
It's one thing for a single person to say these things but they all seem in agreement that this game is in trouble.
Based on the guy who started the false rumor that Marathon was going to be 70 dollars...
The game is in alpha, anyone reviewing it as if it is a finished game releasing tomorrow is pretty laughable. The game doesn't release for 6 months. That's a lifetime in terms of game tweaking and changing.
There are two types of people I wouldn't trust off hand.
People who were paid to play the game and paid as part of the game's marketing and people who generally put out negative videos about everything for views.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
There's some truth to this but there's no incentive for them to bury Marathon if they're not reasonably certain it's a dud. If anything, they're incentivized to play a political game if they feel it's not for them.
They can easily say things like "I'm not sure if this is a game for me but I can see a lot of PvP players digging it." Or "A lot of people seemed to have fun with X or Y."
This was a complete undressing of the game when there was no reason to do so. They weren't giving the counter arguments to any of their critiques either.
"The PvE was downright bad."
"There was no tension whatsoever. I didn't care who was around me unlike in Hunt Showdown."
Skill Up even said in his preview that he wished he was playing Hunt while playing Marathon.
And btw, these impressions actually align with what my eyeballs were telling me during the hour long event. It showed poorly to a lot of people.
Positive impressions are always to be taken with a bigger grain of salt than negative impressions due to the early access effect. They're all incentivized to be nice to Bungie.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Bungie showed off this game on a massive stage because they were proud of what they had. This is what they thought was going to sell the game. What we saw represents the launch product.
The idea that the game is radically going to improve in less than 6 months simply doesn't happen in game development.
I don't think you can trust positive impressions from early access media. It's an entirely different story when EA media is destroying a game pre release.There are two types of people I wouldn't trust off hand.
People who were paid to play the game and paid as part of the game's marketing and people who generally put out negative videos about everything for views.
Why We're Worried About The Metal Gear Solid 3 Remake | Spot On
Lucy and Tamoor have some concerns about Konami's Metal Gear Solid 3 Delta: Snake Eater project--let's talk about it.
Don't Worry, Redfall Puts An Unmistakably Arkane Spin On The Looter Shooter
The studio that made Dishonored, Prey, and Deathloop is heading into uncharted territory, but using its design principles as its guide.
Especially if those impression align with what my own eyeballs, and plenty of others, saw during the event.
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MiguelItUp
Member
Thanks for reminding me about FPS, gonna listen to it now.
It's wild because it almost feels like some people are searching for positive sentiment for Marathon. They wanna hear what big Tarkov/extraction shooter streamers have to say about it. I get that perspective, but that doesn't mean other people's opinions and perspectives are completely moot as a result. I'd only say that if they didn't care for the type of game, hate it, etc. But that's pretty obvious.
But watching the content of all the creators playing together felt overly forced at times. People hooting and hollering but what I'm seeing onscreen didn't feel like it was worthy of all the hype that was being shown, just felt pretty standard or just nothing insane. I don't know how much I'd outright trust all those people.
Again, I look forward to playing the alpha myself just to see, but man, a lot of this just feels... so oddly bold and strange across the board. It honestly sounds like so much isn't ready but Sony is really applying pressure so that it releases this year. I mean, talking up a future Ranked mode that doesn't exist in writing or creation yet, a narrative and story that doesn't exist yet, etc. and we're only months out is wild.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
They showed the game because they have to show the game. The people who played it have mostly said that they really like it. I said even before they announced a gameplay trailer reveal that they were going to have to show the game and make it available about 6 months before the game released.
You fundamentally misunderstand game development here. The game has probably been largely done for a year. This is iteration and tweaking at this point. That doesn't take as long as it takes to create content, upgrade engines, QA e.t.c.
Things like creating a solos queue... you can do that in a couple days. Rebalancing the gameplay in that mode? Probably a few weeks. It doesn't require any new assets to be created. The same is true of creating duos.
You look at all the complaints people have for the game and their all balance issues that should be expected of a game like this that is 6 months out.
Even creating a proximity chat wouldn't take more than a month or so.
Name a single complaint anyone has lodged that would take more than 6 months to change.
Re-read what I said.
Dude you're wishy washy and it the game turns out to be a success, you'll say you called it and ignore the cold feet you're getting because the game doesn't seem revolutionary and has had some mixed critiques. So much of what the game has wrong with it, you've gotten wrong and has been debunked by others. You need to take a more level approach to these things, because your highs are way too high and your lows are way too low.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I get wanting to talk myself into the hype. I did it with Concord. I thought "No way did PlayStation buy this studio if that's all this game is. They have to be hiding more good ****."
I'm not doing that again.
Don't get me wrong, FPS does say some silly "single player mindset" stuff like wanting to know more about the characters story. No PvP gamer ever talks about that nonsense. So they do litter this podcast with some silly comments, but there are some things I simply believe.
- No tension.
- It's mostly PvE.
- The PvE is bad.
Dear God.
MiguelItUp
Member
Yeah as a group they're often praising single player games over multiplayer. But I genuinely enjoy SkillUps content as I feel like he and I have similar opinions on a lot. His video alone regarding everything was concerning enough for me. From what I've seen and read, no one has out right said their experience with it was awful or horrible. But so much was just forgettable, not unique, not impressive, etc. Which, yeah, for this kind of game, that's not great.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Just 6 months out unless this game gets delayed its not undergoing much change at this stageBased on the guy who started the false rumor that Marathon was going to be 70 dollars...
The game is in alpha, anyone reviewing it as if it is a finished game releasing tomorrow is pretty laughable. The game doesn't release for 6 months. That's a lifetime in terms of game tweaking and changing.
There are two types of people I wouldn't trust off hand.
People who were paid to play the game and paid as part of the game's marketing and people who generally put out negative videos about everything for views.
Why We're Worried About The Metal Gear Solid 3 Remake | Spot On
Lucy and Tamoor have some concerns about Konami's Metal Gear Solid 3 Delta: Snake Eater project--let's talk about it.
Don't Worry, Redfall Puts An Unmistakably Arkane Spin On The Looter Shooter
The studio that made Dishonored, Prey, and Deathloop is heading into uncharted territory, but using its design principles as its guide.
Btw just an observation you are putting in a lot of effort for a game you have no interest in unless your view has changed in 48 hours or so
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
False. They showed it because they felt it presented well.
That's my point. This game is not going to look radically different in September.
Ok?
No, this games issues are fundamental. They're not balance issues. It's going to require heavy lifting from Bungie to reframe this house.
Proxy chat isn't saving Marathon.
Why is there no tension?
Why is most of the gameplay PvE?
Why is the PvE downright bad?
Why is the player generated storytelling so bad?
Good luck fixing that stuff in 6 months.
Nope. I enjoy being wrong and have the maturity, wisdom, grace, humility and je ne sais quoi attitude to admit it.
I would love nothing more than for me to be wrong and Marathon to launch in a great state.
I disagree.
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mayham2199
Member
Mostly PVE and the PVE is bad doesn't mean much to me here. Tarkov and Hunt felt the same to me but I didn't play either for that long as I'm not a huge fan of the genre. I'll try this out since I like the overall look of it and Bungies gunplay is second to none IMO.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I'm only playing devil's advocate here. Again, there's zero percent chance that I play this game even in the alpha period, but nothing was going to change that.
I'm actually pretty critical on the game based on what I've seen personally, I just think a lot of people like MiB are jumping the gun here. Which is why I was critical of your friend being dismissive within 10 minutes. If I was interested in playing a game, I'm going to give it more than 10 minutes. That's kind of an absurd amount of time to come away with any judgements.
6 months is a long time to tweak a game. Again, it's important to focus on what can change within 6 months. Are they going to change the art direction in 6 months? No. Can they tweak the amount of encounters you have with enemy AI? Absolutely. Even without them changing anything the game is going to change within 6 months. Playing among a small sample size of players and assuming that a large community will play the same way is kind of weird.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Man Survival was so great. Fuck the DarkZone, bunch of losers gear score cheating and just griefing. Survival was amazing.
PeteBull
Member
Yup it looks like bungie knows their new game isnt worth much, but on the other hand knows they got some "losers" who are willing to pay premium for it, so likely their strategy gonna be 40usd at launch + cosmetic mtx, then after no1 else is stupid to buy game they make it completely f2p 6-12months in to boost dwindling playercounts.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
But why put forth so much effort "playing devils advocate" if its a game you have zero interest in?
mayham2199
Member
This video Travis goes over the whole gameplay and actually got me more excited for the game.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
They're on a deadline. I literally called out that deadline before I heard the dates. October is the latest they could release the game. ~6 months is the shortest amount to really incorporate good community feedback.
Who said it needs to be "radically" different?
Name them...
Who said Marathon needs to be saved?
You haven't played the game. You're basing this off of someone playing it for a day or two. Tension mounts in a game like this based on preserving your loadouts, especially the longer you're playing it. The tension comes from the but clenching experience of losing everything you have, just like gambling. I'm not surprised at all that press playing it wouldn't get the sense of tension after playing the game for a short period of time. The streamers played it for longer and I've not seen many have the same complaint.
Depends on the play style of who you're playing with, the size of the map, people's familiarity with where the loot is and fighting over said loot.
I haven't heard that consistently from people. Some videos I hear the PvE is really hard that might be good for some people and bad for others. Again, this is why you shouldn't base your opinions on just one or two people saying something. It doesn't make it true.
Yeah, haven't heard this at all, but again this is an alpha build. Not sure what to tell you here.
None of the stuff you said can't be fixed in 6 months. The things that are hard to fix and take longer are maps, gameplay, engine e.t.c. Literally everything you said can change quite a bit in 6 months.
I'm not saying you won't admit you were wrong. What I'm saying is you won't learn from it. Every big live service game you come around saying it's going to be a massive success and as soon as there is any real criticism of the game, you round around saying that the game is going to flop. You're already praising that game you tagged me in and though I'm not the target audience, that looked like complete ass.
And you'll champion being right about it being this big deal.
I've watched a ton of videos on it from a ton of different content creators. You're definitely wrong.
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
He is how I picture the average user on Gaf.
It happens that his views align almost completely with the general Gaf echo-chamber.
Wouldn't even be surprised if he's a regular here, or at least a lurker.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I have zero interest in playing the game, that being said, it's an important game in the industry and Bungie is an important studio in the industry.
I talk about FromSoftware games too, though I also have no interest in FromSoftware games.
I've talked about Starfield though I had no interest in Starfield, but Bethesda is an important studio in the industry and it was an important game for Xbox. I've never personally liked a single Bethesda game.
I don't play GaaS games, but they're a big part of the industry. I can separate my personal interest from my curiosity about how the industry operates.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
F2P is the panacea for people who don't understand multiplayer. In reality, fun is the panacea. People will pay for fun experiences.
Btw...Friends Per Second absolutely eviscerated Marathon.
They all agreed that there's no tension, you do PvE more often than PvP - The PvE is outright "bad", and they have no idea the vision or hook that Bungie needs to find to make this game work. Absolutely brutal commentary from early access media.
It's one thing for a single person to say these things but they all seem in agreement that this game is in trouble.
I don't think any of their impressions are overtly negative
Love the gameplay
Love the art design
Love the way PVP feels
They are a little unsure of the end game content, which we know is RAID-like on a ship with classic marathon enemies. They are unsure of the lore, but we already know that the ship itself is going to harbor tons of secrets and this is going to be a mysterious souls like and community driven experience.
Skill up is just hung up on the pricing model and future promise. They did it with Destiny. Theyre doing it here.
Let them cook for another five months. All the foundational stuff is there and plays great
MMaRsu
Gold Member
Why
According to whom?
Are people really clamoring for a new extraction shooter?
Is the industry going to be badly affected if this game does bad?
I dont think so.
When GTA6 releases all other releases will be forgotten quickly (at least for awhile)
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coachmcguirk91
Member
I generally strongly agree with this statement, but not in this case. If Marathon was developed by a random AAA studio, the reception would be radically different, imo.
Pretty much every journalist went into that test session with the highest of high standards of what Marathon should be. They were expecting something revolutionary. Instead, Marathon is a game that takes elements from other popular gaas games(Apex Legends, Tarkov, Warzone) and blends them together. I can understand some journalists being upset by that and expecting more, but I think they are being overly critical because of it
Even the positives, like gunplay, is barely talked about in these previews because the expectations of it being amazing are already baked in
We will find out more in a couple weeks when the closed beta is released. I do think this will be a massive game, though. There is no extraction shooter that plays like this. And as someone who put 2000 hours into Apex Legends and enjoys games where there are consequences for dying, I'm excited
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Because it's a Bungie game and for over 20 years they've been shaping the FPS marketplace and much of the gaming marketplace.
clarky
Gold Member
It's Bungie's first new release in over ten years and has the possibility to sink the studio if it fails.
kevboard
Member
really? especially for a Bungie game I'd go in expecting really bad gunplay tbh.
Bungie is good at making guns feel good through sound and animations, but that's not all there is to gunplay in a shooter.
their 2004 era aim assist with bullet magnetism, their 2004 era analog stick reaction curve, their 2004 era ain acceleration and axial deadzones...
I would go in expecting awful gunplay.
fps devs on console learned a lot since 2004, but Bungie is still stuck in that era with Destiny 2... sadly Halo Infinite, in the desperate attempt to "feel like Halo" suffers from the same issues, although not to the same extent (there you at least can turn off axial deadzones and have inner and outer deadzone settings)
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MiguelItUp
Member
To be fair, a lot of people are. A lot of people are concerned about the amount of content being delivered on day one and the price they're asking for it, which sounds like it's completely warranted. I've read/heard the 4th map that's coming a bit later is something they're really proud of, along with the Ranked mode, but they had nothing to show for either, just their own excitement. Ranked being available on launch is also currently a question mark.
No one sounds like they're being negative about the game. But a lot of people are also not sounding extremely positive about core components of the game, which is the concern for a lot of people. Extraction shooters are a niche, and this game will likely be the first game to bring that game type to a lot of the masses in the mainstream. However...
The price matters (especially with the content it has/doesn't have)
The amount of content on launch matters
A consistent roadmap / future content expectations matter
Five months, even with crunch, is not a long time.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
A $40-50 game that at a minimum will give me 20-30 hours is not an issue to me. Everyone has their own price sensitivities but this isn't a big deal for me
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Only if you are selectively listening to negative players
I'm watching plenty of others saying the opposite
MMaRsu
Gold Member
Allright so not important to the industry as a whole at all
Bungie shaping the fps marketplace
Maybe back in the Xbox days and if you never played on PC.
They havent set a trend or standard since Halo.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
Its Bungies problem if this game flounders
I don't want studios around that produce crap
The Bungie I loved is long gone
MiguelItUp
Member
I can totally understand that. Yeah, exactly, it's subjective. I personally don't know if I'd pay $40-$50 for any multiplayer only title. Unless it was Quake or Doom related, because fullblown bias, lol.
I mean, these are people that aren't known to be negative, which is the kicker. There ARE people like that, but I don't find myself viewing that content as I'm not a negative person myself, lol. I've always enjoyed SkillUps content, so of course I watched his video. I also checked out Luke Stephens' video only because I stumbled on a few previous videos of his that sounded like they broke things down nicely. Other than that I checked out a number of others. But no one that was like, "THIS GAME SUCKS AND WILL FAIL!" I see those videos exist, but I'm not giving clickbait clicks, lol.
Again, no one was "negative", everyone I watched had positive things to say, but they were concerned about a number of things which IMO sound extremely reasonable.
I'm hoping I get into the alpha to see for myself, honestly.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
Activision produces nothing but garbage CoD games but I certainly don't want them going out of business because there's plenty of people that do like their games
Opinions and all that
Pop
Member
clarky
Gold Member
Personally I loved Halo & Destiny for the most part.
Jury's out on whether this game is crap or not. They get the benefit of the doubt from me.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Without a doubt I want to know more and hope there is an open beta to able to try it but haven't like enough of what I have seen to reward them with a purchase unless I do it on a platform that makes refunds super easy
clarky
Gold Member
Allright so not important to the industry as a whole at all
Bungie shaping the fps marketplace
Maybe back in the Xbox days and if you never played on PC.
They havent set a trend or standard since Halo.
You don't think Halo or Destiny have had any influence in this industry over the last twenty years then I don't know what to say.
MMaRsu
Gold Member
Destiny? No, not at all.
It was a garbage game when it launched, the only good thing about it was the shooting mechanics (which Bungie has never gotten wrong).
Halo? Past Reach they haven't influenced the industry at all, and Reach released in 2010.
Destiny 2 also has not been influencial on the gaming industry on the whole in any way shape or form.
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near
Member
I'll probably get it on Steam. I'll know within 2 hours if I want to invest more time into it. PSN refund policy is stupid.
Hudo
Member
Good. Fuck 'em.
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