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[Shining Sunshine]

If BC was a game changer the big 3 would have figured out a way to include it. MS is trying to make sure that current 360 owners migrate to X1 instead of PS4. I guess it could have some benefit there but ultimately BC is mostly fan service. I am certainly glad that I will be able to play most of my old games on the X1. So, I can finally retire the 360 but I don't think the feature is a game changer. That said, I do think moving forward, as people become more invested in digital games/libraries, that there will be a push to have our current PS4/X1/WiiU digital libraries playable on the next generation of consoles.

Yeah, BC was great back then when there wasn't that many games.

Now, we can barely keep up with new games to even think about playing old games again.

 

[4Tran]

Backwards compatibility at launch can make a bit of difference in retaining your customer base. Even so, I doubt that the feature is significant enough to raise sales by more than a percent or two. This far into the product life cycle backwards compatibility is almost a non-issue. The problem is that there simply aren't going to be many people who value the feature enough who haven't already decided to buy a Xbone. Microsoft would see a hundred times better gains with a $50 price cut than with 360 backwards compatibility.

Think like a businessman and you'll see why.

It's game of profit, not units moved

Sony's goal right now is to strategically position the PS4, and to leverage their advantages here into other areas. PS4 hardware margins aren't the primary means by which they aim to garner profits, so maintaining a high one isn't a very important goal. Sony should be able to reduce the price point of the PS4 by $100 by now, and they will make a lot of gains in doing so. That said, a more modest $50 price cut isn't out of the question. I'd only be surprised if they decided to hold firm on the price.

 

[Y2Kev]

If BC worked like Wii and PS3 I'd agree completely, but this BC is fully integrated in a way where you can use all the features of the XB1. It doesn't reboot into a BC mode like previous BC solutions. You actually have access to all your games within the new ecosystem so it's really impressive. Streaming, screenshots, recording, friends, party chat, snap, notifications, etc... all that stuff works. The problem is getting that info across to consumers in a way that makes them interested. I'm not sure it can be done in a way to truly show what's so cool about Xbox's BC solution.

On the other hand, previous BC solutions were actually BC and supported a huge majority of the titles on the console. This solution does not. So again, is the unique selling point old games or old games done differently? I think this is less about BC than people think.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Think like a businessman and you'll see why.

It's game of profit, not units moved

Maintaining a high hardware profit margin isn't the one and only way to maximize profits, though.

 

[hawk2025]

The best thing Microsoft can do (and is in fact doing) with the limited BC is to offer free versions of the previous games when selling the newer ones, like with Fallout and Just Cause. That should help some.

But as far as moving boxes, I think it's about the breadth of the library that is compatible first and foremost. It's a bit of a struggle to communicate and market the feature, but make sure that people aren't disappointed when most of their games don't work right away.

 

[LukasTaves]

If BC worked like Wii and PS3 I'd agree completely, but this BC is fully integrated in a way where you can use all the features of the XB1. It doesn't reboot into a BC mode like previous BC solutions. You actually have access to all your games within the new ecosystem so it's really impressive. Streaming, screenshots, recording, friends, party chat, snap, notifications, etc... all that stuff works. The problem is getting that info across to consumers in a way that makes them interested. I'm not sure it can be done in a way to truly show what's so cool about Xbox's BC solution.

It's really impressive how they managed it. I'm also not sure if it's going to make a difference, but it might be important to lock people who already went mostly digital on 360 to their ecosystem... And it gives assurance that this is how it will be going forward, so people can invest on their libraries on xbone knowing that some way or another they will be able to play it on another device in the future.

 

[Jigorath]

So...what?
Maybe a 50% drop then instead of 70-80?

45k it is.

Unless people are really expecting it to sell more in Sept than Aug...?

A 50% drop for next month would be a decent result.

 

[Square2015]

Our next-gen war thus far

 

[Mory Dunz]

A 50% drop for next month would be a decent result.

Yeah, I know.

My point was that even with a generous 50% (which likely will not happen), it would only be up to 135k....which is still nothing.

 

[kswiston]

New 3DS was barely a blip on the radar when it comes to boosting sales. It looks like it just held off annual drops for a few months.

 

[Jigorath]

Yeah, I know.

My point was that even with a generous 50% (which likely will not happen), it would only be up to 135k....which is still nothing.

True, it's never going to have great sales in the US considering the low debut and nonexistant marketing (great work SCEA!). It'll need regular price drops, bundling, and decent numbers in Europe to get anywhere. This IP better not die with only one installment.

 

[watdaeff4]

Maintaining a high hardware profit margin isn't the one and only way to maximize profits, though.

Sony's goal right now is to strategically position the PS4, and to leverage their advantages here into other areas. PS4 hardware margins aren't the primary means by which they aim to garner profits, so maintaining a high one isn't a very important goal. Sony should be able to reduce the price point of the PS4 by $100 by now, and they will make a lot of gains in doing so. That said, a more modest $50 price cut isn't out of the question. I'd only be surprised if they decided to hold firm on the price.

Yes, but units moved --> software moved --> PSN memberships rising == higher chance of getting more software created for you without throwing lots of money hats and higher chance of retaining users for the next generation.

Ok then, please share your thoughts on why Sony hasn't had a price cut yet. The furthest into any generation they been involved in without having a price cut. I've explained why I don't think they have and you (and others in here) have said more or less I'm wrong and contradicted me (which is more than fine as it is a discussion board - I don't take offense). If your logic is what Sony is following, then why no price cut?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

EDIT: btw, below is a response I gave to another poster who was saying the same thing as you guys. I think Sony has market analysis of a lot of the questions I pose below and they are making sure the timing is right for the price cut (which I think will eventually happen, just I don't see it this year, but in 2016. I think there strategy is that they are still going to sell a shitton in 2015 and therefore why drop the price now?)

Depends.

What is the cost to Sony of the console? How many more units would move if it was priced at $349 or $299? How many of those "extra" buyers would subscribe to PS+? How many games would they buy? How many of this looking for $100 off a PS4 would be willing to lay down the $$$ that Morpheus is going to cost just one year later?

There are a lot of factors that I'm willing to bet they have some market analysis for.

 

[Mory Dunz]

True, it's never going to have great sales in the US considering the low debut and nonexistant marketing (great work SCEA!). It'll need regular price drops, bundling, and decent numbers in Europe to get anywhere. This IP better not die with only one installment.

Yeah, seems to be doing decent in Europe, just going by chart positions though we don't have numbers.


Not sure it can do 1m though.
Cause the US and Japan won't add much at all.

 

[maxiell]

Microsoft has no reason to do anything like the same price cuts they had in 2014 this holiday. They have a bunch of FPS coming out including their biggest franchise.

Nintendo looks like they have nothing for Christmas though. Wonder if they can come up with a surprise or two.

 

[Shenmue]

Everyone is assuming that a price drop of 50 or 100 would automatically mean huge volume for Sony. Isn't it possible that Sony has done the market research and come to a conclusion that maybe it wouldn't equate to that much of an increase in volume?

 

[watdaeff4]

Everyone is assuming that a price drop of 50 or 100 would automatically mean huge volume for Sony. Isn't it possible that Sony has done the market research and come to a conclusion that maybe it wouldn't equate to that much of an increase in volume?

Thank you.

 

[Mory Dunz]

Microsoft has no reason to do anything like the same price cuts they had in 2014 this holiday. They have a bunch of FPS coming out including their biggest franchise.

Nintendo looks like they have nothing for Christmas though. Wonder if they can come up with a surprise or two.

Do you mean games, or price cut/deals?

They seem to have a lot of b tier games, but no big one. (Star Fox, Xeno, Animal Crossing if it counts, Mario Tennis if that counts too.)

Not much in terms of selling power.

 

[BadWolf]

Everyone is assuming that a price drop of 50 or 100 would automatically mean huge volume for Sony. Isn't it possible that Sony has done the market research and come to a conclusion that maybe it wouldn't equate to that much of an increase in volume?

A $100 price would very much increase sales by a lot worldwide. There is no ifs or buts about it.

It would also be a great help in places like Japan where the system is still trying to catch its bearings.

 

[Unknown One]

100 definitely will, 50 won't do much I think.

 

[ethomaz]

I don't believe in price drop this year for PS4.

The holidays will be more about big deals (like near $300 for a PS4 at BF) but no price drop... think like what MS did last holiday.

They are UP in sales everywhere without any price drop.

And yes... $100 price drop will boost the sales to new level... that is no brain to predict.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I don't think bc matters at all this holiday season.

If it didn't, MS wouldn't be doing it when the US is filled with X360 owners starting to make their mass migration from last gen upward. Ever since last gen's heavy digital representation of games happened for consoles, BC became even more important than in previous generations of hardware. There's a profitable market for putting in some effort into making old PC games compatible for sale on modern digital marketplaces, like Steam or GOG, and there's one for consoles as well. People shouldn't underestimate it.

 

[GravityInsanity]

I'm terrible with numbers! What's the gap between the PS4 and XBONE in the US now?

 

[Behlel]

Everyone is assuming that a price drop of 50 or 100 would automatically mean huge volume for Sony. Isn't it possible that Sony has done the market research and come to a conclusion that maybe it wouldn't equate to that much of an increase in volume?

I think that they have a roadmap for the console that include even the price-cut. They're selling very well, even better then the competitor so they can choose to wait and make the maximum profit possible.

 

[watdaeff4]

I'm terrible with numbers! What's the gap between the PS4 and XBONE in the US now?

About 7K more than last month

 

[GravityInsanity]

About 7K more than last month

Overall in the US?

 

[Chobel]

Ok then, please share your thoughts on why Sony hasn't had a price cut yet. The furthest into any generation they been involved in without having a price cut. I've explained why I don't think they have and you (and others in here) have said more or less I'm wrong and contradicted me (which is more than fine as it is a discussion board - I don't take offense). If your logic is what Sony is following, then why no price cut?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Most likely because they couldn't afford to. This strategy here involves taking some losses short term but greater profits long term, so the key requirement here is to survive long enough until you start getting profits. Unlike PS1/PS2/Early PS3 era, Sony is not in great shape financially, so they just can't cut the price without some serious thinking about short term implications.

In other words it's not about getting more profits, but more about not taking risks if you don't have to.

 

[Shenmue]

If it didn't, MS wouldn't be doing it when the US is filled with X360 owners starting to make their mass migration from last gen upward. Ever since last gen's heavy digital representation of games happened for consoles, BC became even more important than in previous generations of hardware. There's a profitable market for putting in some effort into making old PC games compatible for sale on modern digital marketplaces, like Steam or GOG, and there's one for consoles as well. People shouldn't underestimate it.

Don't think BC actually makes much of a difference. Never has and i don't believe ever will. Just because MS decides to put money into r&d for something doesn't mean it will automatically be successful or meaningful. Majority of people play new games not old.

I'm sure they hope it will drive sales but if it was really that big a deal you would have seen it as part of the console at launch. But they saw how much it helped the original PS3.

People already have less and less time to play games which is why I believe mobile has eaten up so much of the game market. Ain't nobody have time to play old games they couldn't even get to last generation or revisit games they are done with.

 

[watdaeff4]

Most likely because they couldn't afford to. This strategy here involves taking some losses short term but greater profits long term, so the key requirement here is to survive long enough until you start getting profits. Unlike PS1/PS2/Early PS3 era, Sony is not in great shape financially, so they just can't cut the price without some serious thinking about short term implications.

In other words it's not about getting more profits, but more about not taking risks if you don't have to.

So you're answer is.....profits.

Thank you for the thought out discussion

EDIT: (seriously and I agree it's all about the profits, that's what I've been saying, I think they know exactly what they are doing)

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

If it didn't, MS wouldn't be doing it when the US is filled with X360 owners starting to make their mass migration from last gen upward. Ever since last gen's heavy digital representation of games happened for consoles, BC became even more important than in previous generations of hardware. There's a profitable market for putting in some effort into making old PC games compatible for sale on modern digital marketplaces, like Steam or GOG, and there's one for consoles as well. People shouldn't underestimate it.

No one is saying that there isn't "profit" in BC, they're just saying the obvious thing. BC won't be THE feature that tips the scale in favor of Microsoft.

We've been through this dance the past years, there's always "something" that will push X1 sales, and here we are, still waiting for that mystical feature that will somehow push the X1 ahead of the PS4 LTD (in the US, obviously).

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Don't think BC actually makes much of a difference. Never has and i don't believe ever will. Just because MS decides to put money into r&d for something doesn't mean it will automatically be successful or meaningful. Majority of people play new games not old.

So, your argument is that because it didn't seem to move the needle before, it won't ever matter in the the future when digital has already become the most important method of software distribution for games and all software consumers purchase now? As for new versus old, are you taking into consideration the sales of all of these remasters and old game compilations of this generation of consoles? I don't care what sells more, but I'd say that there is an undeniably healthy slice of the market looking for safety in what they know to be good and for those that missed out the first time around. It also revives visibility and lagging legacy sales for any publisher's back catalog quite easily. It helps that previous-gen purchases can still have meaning going forward, but that's meant for increase the chance of migration within a specific platform ecosystem.

 

[SMOK3Y]

not a safe way to drive a forklift mate

 

[Chobel]

So you're answer is.....profits.

Thank you for the thought out discussion

EDIT: (seriously and I agree it's all about the profits, that's what I've been saying, I think they know exactly what they are doing)

Here's the thing, if they know that they afford to take losses say this Fall, then they'll drop the price this fall even if they're selling well. Companies care about maximizing profits and not just making profits.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Ok then, please share your thoughts on why Sony hasn't had a price cut yet. The furthest into any generation they been involved in without having a price cut. I've explained why I don't think they have and you (and others in here) have said more or less I'm wrong and contradicted me (which is more than fine as it is a discussion board - I don't take offense). If your logic is what Sony is following, then why no price cut?

But did I actually say that you were wrong? All I did was point that maintaining high hardware profit margins is not the only way to maximize profits.

And to answer your question, now wouldn't be a good time to cut the price. Sony might announce a price cut during PGW since that is about the time where sales will really pick up. The potential sales increase if the price is cut now will be substantially lower than the potential sales increase if the price is cut at the end of October.

 

[EGM1966]

Everyone is assuming that a price drop of 50 or 100 would automatically mean huge volume for Sony. Isn't it possible that Sony has done the market research and come to a conclusion that maybe it wouldn't equate to that much of an increase in volume?

That's possible of course. With experience of forecasting and price elasticity from the available trends I'd be surprised if that was actually the case (the PS4 not being very elastic to price).

I'd expect the console to be relatively elastic to price and a decent cut to definately move the needle.

More likely they'd rather have current sales units with higher margin than more sales units with lower margins.

Besides they can wait. They're still ahead everywhere so they aren't being pushed by the market to increase unit volume to remain ahead.

I will say looking at the often small monthly gap (particularly this month) that in the U.S. the time is approaching when if they want to remain ahead they'll finally have to drop the price. Looking at their lead I think they'll ride out this holiday like last and finally drop price early 2016 to make sure they keep ahead monthly (unless MS fails to claw back the same kind of ground as last holiday in which case they may stick it out a bit longer even).

 

[Conduit]

Depends how they position it? If there is no fanfare or marketing then it will mean zilch, nada. If however they have TV adverts for say Halo 5 or Tomb Raider and at the end they say "and Xbox is the ONLY new console you can play the older games in these franchises" or something (I dont work in marketing) and really make BC a selling point then it might move the needle a bit? Thoughts?

BC is well known since E3. Did BC announcement boost Xbone sales to date WW? No and never will.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

No one is saying that there isn't "profit" in BC, they're just saying the obvious thing. BC won't be THE feature that tips the scale in favor of Microsoft.

We've been through this dance the past years, there's always "something" that will push X1 sales, and here we are, still waiting for that mystical feature that will somehow push the X1 ahead of the PS4 LTD (in the US, obviously).

I'm not talking about 'something' that will save X1 relative to PS4. And I'm not propping BC up as the thing that will tip the scale. If we thought that simply about anything added to a platform's features, we probably wouldn't see much done when the reality is that it's probably the sum of reasons that pushes someone over the edge, not just one thing.

 

[Erimriv]

No way in hell U4 will get near close Halo 5, first 60 rock solid fps Halo game (not counting MCC ones) will sell like hotcakes.

 

[PanicFreak]

Don't think BC actually makes much of a difference. Never has and i don't believe ever will. Just because MS decides to put money into r&d for something doesn't mean it will automatically be successful or meaningful. Majority of people play new games not old.

I'm sure they hope it will drive sales but if it was really that big a deal you would have seen it as part of the console at launch. But they saw how much it helped the original PS3.

People already have less and less time to play games which is why I believe mobile has eaten up so much of the game market. Ain't nobody have time to play old games they couldn't even get to last generation or revisit games they are done with.

I think it will make a difference for those 360 owners that have lots of digital titles. I don't think having retail 360 titles will move the needle much though.

 

[Doffen]

BC is well known since E3. Did BC announcement boost Xbone sales to date WW? No and never will.

Can you prove that BC will never affect the sales of Xbox One positively?

Edit: There are even two games in the OP that utilize BC.

3.) Gears of War: Ultimate Edition (Xbox One) - This promotion.
6.) Rare Replay (Xbox One) - All Xbox 360 games are played through BC.

 

[Boombloxer]

So, your argument is that because it didn't seem to move the needle before, it won't ever matter in the the future when digital has already become the most important method of software distribution for games and all software consumers purchase now? As for new versus old, are you taking into consideration the sales of all of these remasters and old game compilations of this generation of consoles? I don't care what sells more, but I'd say that there is an undeniably healthy slice of the market looking for safety in what they know to be good and for those that missed out the first time around. It also revives visibility and lagging legacy sales for any publisher's back catalog quite easily. It helps that previous-gen purchases can still have meaning going forward, but that's meant for increase the chance of migration within a specific platform ecosystem.

Old games matter less for new console sales than new games. It's really that simple. The only games that the legacy sales really apply to are the ones who's new installments will push a fuckton of units. Like Black Ops.

BC isn't a tipping point for anything. It's not used by a Majority of people, and is a nice to have at best.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

I'm terrible with numbers! What's the gap between the PS4 and XBONE in the US now?

810,000 lifetime.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

I'm not talking about 'something' that will save X1 relative to PS4. And I'm not propping BC up as the thing that will tip the scale. If we thought that simply about anything added to a platform's features, we probably wouldn't see much done when the reality is that it's probably the sum of reasons that pushes someone over the edge, not just one thing.

I agree it's the sum of reasons that push people over the edge, not just one feature. The problem is, to me, exactly that.
Even though MS keeps adding features to the X1 (like BC), getting rid of others to cut costs (like removing Kinect), it's still not enough to go against the many other factors in favor of the ps4, from a more powerful system (which translates into mp games being better 95% of the time), to a bigger install base which in turn attracts even more consumers, among others (like marketing).
A combination of software and price reductions (official or not), have been the "features" that made the PS4 lose against it on a monthly basis.

 

[CosmicQueso]

I, for one, would sure like to be able to play my PS3 digital catalog on the PS4.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Ok then, please share your thoughts on why Sony hasn't had a price cut yet. The furthest into any generation they been involved in without having a price cut. I've explained why I don't think they have and you (and others in here) have said more or less I'm wrong and contradicted me (which is more than fine as it is a discussion board - I don't take offense). If your logic is what Sony is following, then why no price cut?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Sony probably thinks that their current growth is THE growth they dreamed of and they do not think the return on investment would get them more of an advantage than the one they already got. NPD going well and trouncing the competition with regards to RotW sales makes them not willing to increase production capacity just to satisfy an impulse driven demand.
The fact that they still push for unit sales does not mean that have 10 Million units a day as target though.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

So, if I paged through this thread and the last results thread correctly:

             3DS 2015  PSP 2009  NDS 2009  3DS 2014
     January       74       172       510        97
     February     395       199       588       153
     March        265       168       563       159
     April        116       116      [B][U]1040[/U][/B]       106
     May           97       100       633        97
     June         124*      163       766       152
     July         104       123       539       108
     August       77        140       552        91
     September              190       524       140
     October                174       457       138
     November               293      1700       515
     December               654      3310       810
     Through 
     August       1252      1181     5191       964

     Total                 2492     11182      2566

The only non holiday NPD when a console sold 1 million...... insane numbers.

 

[4Tran]

Ok then, please share your thoughts on why Sony hasn't had a price cut yet. The furthest into any generation they been involved in without having a price cut. I've explained why I don't think they have and you (and others in here) have said more or less I'm wrong and contradicted me (which is more than fine as it is a discussion board - I don't take offense). If your logic is what Sony is following, then why no price cut?

Any price cut this year would work best when implemented during the holiday season. I thought that there was a small chance that Sony would have a price drop last Christmas, but it's not too surprising that they didn't do so. A drop last year would have been $50 but a $100 initial drop makes a lot more impact.

EDIT: btw, below is a response I gave to another poster who was saying the same thing as you guys. I think Sony has market analysis of a lot of the questions I pose below and they are making sure the timing is right for the price cut (which I think will eventually happen, just I don't see it this year, but in 2016. I think there strategy is that they are still going to sell a shitton in 2015 and therefore why drop the price now?)

It allows them to have sustained growth into 2016. The only way that Sony can screw up this generation would be to squander their momentum. Bundling helps to alleviate the risk, but far less so than a significant price cut does.

Everyone is assuming that a price drop of 50 or 100 would automatically mean huge volume for Sony. Isn't it possible that Sony has done the market research and come to a conclusion that maybe it wouldn't equate to that much of an increase in volume?

It's more an observation than an assumption. A $400 price point means that Sony is drawing on the same audience that bought the PS4 at launch. While sales are still decent, it's still too far from a mass-market price to get much penetration beyond their current base. And getting to the mass-market is what propelled the PS2 to 150M sales and the PS3 to 90M. It's an extremely important goal.

 

[Final Verdict]

He's talking about the fact the even at 350$ the only way they can keep the gap at a reasonable level with the 399$ PS4 in the US is to make continous deals with retailers, give a game for free in specific weeks and other promotions like that.
In this sense the results we're looking at are not due just to a simple 50$ difference.

Btw looking at the future September will be a big PS4 month.
October is the best chance MS has to win a month this year because of the Halo bundles.
November and December are up in the air unless Sony announces a price cut at PGW, in that case PS4 is likely to win also considering COD and Star Wars bundles and exclusive marketing.

Ok, well I can easily see that line of logic.
They have had some good deals every month, though, nothing out of the ordinary retailer deal. (With the BB TV deal being the one exception).

Though to be fair, we cannot pretend that Sony has not been aggressive with deals themselves. PS4 has been bundled with TLOU all year, and they have come out with several other bundles such as the Batman Bundle, Destiny TFK bundle, Uncharted bundle, and Star Wars bundle. Also there have been plenty of retailer specific deals with PS4 all year long such as trade in deals at Gamestop, and Best Buy, and free game deals at Walmart (not to mention the recent Madden deal).

Looking at the upcoming months, I agree with you that September should be an easy take for PS4, and October an automatic X1 win, but like you said, Nov. and Dec. could go either way depending on how low they both are willing to go.

Anyways, the bottom line is that it has been a good year for both consoles in terms of deals and sales. Both consoles are on an upwards trend at this point, and PS4 will see even bigger gains next year once it gets a price drop out, and some big games finally come to fruition.....I'm predicting PS4 will be up by 25% next year, and X1 up by 10% in 2016 (though I'll probably end up way off as usual, especially with PS4VR changing the landscape).

 

[watdaeff4]

Any price cut this year would work best when implemented during the holiday season. I thought that there was a small chance that Sony would have a price drop last Christmas, but it's not too surprising that they didn't do so. A drop last year would have been $50 but a $100 initial drop makes a lot more impact.


It allows them to have sustained growth into 2016. The only way that Sony can screw up this generation would be to squander their momentum. Bundling helps to alleviate the risk, but far less so than a significant price cut does.

Sorry maybe I mis-typed - I'm not asking why you think they should; I'm asking why you think they haven't. I've given my reasons why they haven't.

Oh FWIW, Sony isn't going to "screw up" this generation.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Old games matter less for new console sales than new games. It's really that simple. The only games that the legacy sales really apply to are the ones who's new installments will push a fuckton of units. Like Black Ops.

BC isn't a tipping point for anything. It's not used by a Majority of people, and is a nice to have at best.

There might be statistical value to what you're so confident in claiming, but when software sales are already lower than before, any sales matter, especially to the smaller players in the market. Any success found in older releases might mean renewed interest in currently underrepresented genres and gametypes. For people who want more genre diversity or an older, disused IP to have a chance at coming back, having something given a chance where the consumers' eyes are on a new box is better than the alternative which is a guaranteed trip into obscurity and a narrower set of software in the current marketplace. I'll take the glass as being half-full.

I agree it's the sum of reasons that push people over the edge, not just one feature. The problem is, to me, exactly that.
Even though MS keeps adding features to the X1 (like BC), getting rid of others to cut costs (like removing Kinect), it's still not enough to go against the many other factors in favor of the ps4, from a more powerful system (which translates into mp games being better 95% of the time), to a bigger install base which in turn attracts even more consumers, among others (like marketing).
A combination of software and price reductions (official or not), have been the "features" that made the PS4 lose against it on a monthly basis.

Okay, this is where I state that I don't care about the console war with PS4 versus X1 wankery at this point. Sony 'won' on the worldwide scale and that is all there is to it. What I care about is that MS gets to make their system and feature set great, not just because it's what I want, but because it's valuable to have succeed even if the winner cannot enable it on their current platform. MS and Sony need to have proof that there is worthwhile demand for such features in future platforms.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Anyways, the bottom line is that it has been a good year for both consoles in terms of deals and sales. Both consoles are on an upwards trend at this point, and PS4 will see even bigger gains next year once it gets a price drop out, and some big games finally come to fruition.....I'm predicting PS4 will be up by 25% next year, and X1 up by 10% in 2016 (though I'll probably end up way off as usual, especially with PS4VR changing the landscape).

XB1 will be down YOY next year, 2015 is most likely the peak, and i really don't see PS4 to increase by 25%.
Probabily only 10% or so...