Support NeoGAF

[Flying_Phoenix]

Blah blah blah yes I'm fully aware of all of this. It's still irrelevant to the point which is that that the Wii is not a system that one looks to for huge, unqualified successes of moderate-plus budgeted core games developed by third parties, because such successes do not exist.

You can see where I've said a few times that Wii's a pretty good choice for truly niche games that require very, very low sales before they meet a profit, but, again, if Wii core-gamer owners were collectively satisfied with ultra-niche titles we wouldn't be having this discussion. Instead, people also want relatively "big" games -- which is quite reasonable -- but the incompetence of third party publishers, combined with Nintendo's unwillingness to use money to counteract said incompetence, has allowed most or all of the window in which such titles might reasonably succeed on Wii to close.

Pretty much this. If you want these big games then clearly you need to buy a different system. Nintendo has never been keen on third party relations, and while they are showing signs of progress they are a long ways away of even being "passable" on that front. And the system seems to be more geared to cheaper and faster development as well as creativity and uniqueness in the relevant game space. If you want pick up and play games as well as quirky and unique titles then buy a Wii. If you want games that you have to play in a significant sitting as well as games that are cinematic and budget heavy then buy a PS3/360. It really isn't that hard. And to me this complaining seems more like stubborn Wii owners who refuse to step on a plate of new and appealing offerings (to them).

Does this make the Wii bad? Of course not, just different.

- You may not get the next Street Fighter game. But you get the next Versus game.

- You may not get Gust's and NiS's adventure into the 3D realm. But you get Vanillaware continuously pushing the 2D realm as well as Image Epoch trying to make a name for themselves.

- You may not get the biggest franchises in North America and Europe. But you get the biggest franchises in Japan.

- You may not get realistic or cinematic bloody and violent Mature rated games. But you get highly stylized and unique bloody and violent Mature rated games.

- You may not see much progress in 3D. But you see many other forms of gaming coming back including 2D.

- You may not get the consistency of huge shooters and WRPG's. But you get tons of variety of games from smaller developers as well as many other genres making a comeback.

- You may not get too many significant multiplats. But you get many significant exclusives.

My case and point is that the Wii is a very different platform from the Xbox 360 and PS3. It is in no way inferior but more so just different. It may have some significant drawbacks when compared to the other two consoles but it also has some significant strengths against them as well. It doesn't matter what you wish the Wii to be or what you think it should be. What matters now is what the Wii actually IS, and you have the choice to either accept it and be happy with it or move onto another platform.

MAYBE Nintendo can fix their flaws next generation and have a console that fixes all of the Wii's current weaknesses as well as contains it's current strengths. But I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

 

[Version 3.0]

His post is really quite level-headed. The success of Wii is definitely because of its ability to tap untouched parts of the market.

This is mathematically doubtful. If the Wii's success is because of "untouched parts of the market", then a huge chunk out of the existing demographic has stopped buying consoles. Let's use NPD data to see how last gen stacks up to this gen:

This generation of consoles is 43 months old in the US, starting from the launch of the Xbox 360. 43 million consoles have been sold in that time (X360 + PS3+ Wii).

During last gen, starting with the launch of the PS2, 39 million consoles had sold as of its 43rd month (PS2 + Xbox + Gamecube).

So there's a 4 million unit difference. The Wii has sold 20 million units now. I think ~20% of its sales going to a new market segment is probably not a bad estimate, maybe a bit high. That's significant, but it's not the reason for its success, it's just a nice "bonus". If you want to claim that more Wii users are new to gaming--say, half of them at 10 million--then you have to explain where the difference went. And this is a market that's consistently grown for its entire life--every gen has been bigger than the last.

 

[AniHawk]

The best thing the Wii did was provide a home console friendly to platformers. And people are making good ones, too! And at affordable prices. Awesome.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

The best thing the Wii did was provide a home console friendly to accommodate a variety of games that wouldn't be seen as technological passable on the other consoles such as platformers and 2D games . And people are making good ones, too! And at affordable prices. Awesome.

Fixed it for you.

 

[AniHawk]

Fixed it for you.

Yeah but I care about platformers more than any other genre. And while I love the DS, there's something great about playing a platformer at home on a console.

That said, Muramasa did have a very nice demo.

 

[SuperBonk]

The best thing the Wii did was provide a home console friendly to platformers. And people are making good ones, too! And at affordable prices. Awesome.

Completely agree. I never would have guessed platformers would be on the endangered list. Glad they're making a comeback.

 

[Halvie]

top 20 for each system posted yet?

 

[donny2112]

Even if we make the assumption that these 1.37 million people are on Wii, it's still "significantly" less than even the amount of copies sold on PS3.

If it were even possible to put GTAIV on the Wii, I think it quite likely that Take-Two would very much like to "reclaim" those 1.37 million in sales with a Wii version. You say 1.37 million like it's a bad thing to sell that many more copies. :lol

Edit:
For comparison, 1.37m in 10 months on Wii would be ~70% more than the Xbox version of San Andreas sold in its first 10 months. smh.

Regardless, your analysis is a bit off and contains a bit of overreaction.

My analysis that there are Wii-only owners who would buy GTA? My overreaction to the idea that someone would say the entire success of the Wii is from people who have no interest in GTA and Halo, two of the more casual-friendly core games out there?

Uh, no. I'm going to have to disagree with you there. :lol

 

[Nirolak]

Fixed it for you.

You raise an interesting point actually. Iwata pretty much confirmed that the next Nintendo system would support HD when it finally comes out. I wonder if that will pretty much mean the end of these genres on consoles outside of the few that will always exist (like Mario and Ratchet for platformers).

 

[SuperBonk]

If it were even possible to put GTAIV on the Wii, I think it quite likely that Take-Two would very much like to "reclaim" those 1.37 million in sales with a Wii version. You say 1.37 million like it's a bad thing to sell that many more copies. :lol

Never said it was a bad thing. Please don't put words in my mouth. That's the second time it's happened in this thread.

Not only that, but this is so far removed from the argument I'm confused as to why you even brought it up.

My analysis that there are Wii-only owners who would buy GTA? My overreaction that someone would say the entire success of the Wii is from people who have no interest in GTA and Halo, two of the more casual-friendly core games out there?

Uh, no. I'm going to have to disagree with you there. :lol

Please re-read my post and see where I define success.

 

[AniHawk]

You raise an interesting point actually. Iwata pretty much confirmed that the next Nintendo system would support HD when it finally comes out. I wonder if that will pretty much mean the end of these genres on consoles outside of the few that will always exist (like Mario and Ratchet for platformers).

I think handhelds will always be a home for those, and platformers are finding life on download services. If the Wii userbase goes over to the next thing Nintendo does, then something like A Boy and his Blob (if ABahB is a success) might do well too. Whatever happens, platformers shouldn't have a high pricepoint attached to them. The platforming genre is the one gaming genre where games are usually made for single players that multiple people like to watch. You have to make them accessible as far as price goes (poor Mirror's Edge).

 

[Nirolak]

I think handhelds will always be a home for those, and platformers are finding life on download services. If the Wii userbase goes over to the next thing Nintendo does, then something like A Boy and his Blob (if ABahB is a success) might do well too. Whatever happens, platformers shouldn't have a high pricepoint attached to them. The platforming genre is the one gaming genre where games are usually made for single players that multiple people like to watch. You have to make them accessible as far as price goes (poor Mirror's Edge).

Yeah, you have a good point there. The downloadable services are definitely getting a lot of nice platformers these days.

And yeah, I don't expect them to ever go away on handhelds, especially considering how well structured they are for them.

 

[donny2112]

Never said it was a bad thing.

No, you said it would be "significantly less" than what the PS3 version sold (28.6% less to be exact). However, you phrased that as if 1.37 million additional copies of GTAIV on Wii wouldn't be worth the effort, since it was "significantly" less than what the PS3 version sold. My position would be that 1.37 million might just be worth the effort, after all. :lol

That's the second time it's happened in this thread.

That was my first response to you, IIRC, and, no, I don't think I misread what you wrote.

Not only that, but this is so far removed from the argument I'm confused as to why you even brought it up.

You brought up the idea of "even if we make the assumption" of the 1.37 million difference between GTA:SA and GTAIV being possible on the Wii, and said that it would still be "significantly" less than what the PS3 version sold, as if that made it not worth trying for. Maybe you should go back and read what you wrote. :lol

Please re-read my post and see where I define success.

I didn't respond to that part, since I'd mostly agree. I'd rephrase it to say that the success of the Wii can be "largely attributed" to its ability to tap into a different demographic, but I didn't figure that was worth picking hairs over.

 

[kame-sennin]

My whole purpose in pointing out the disparity between San Andreas and GTAIV was to show that a significant portion of the GTA-buying audience is not currently present on the PS3+360, and I think it's pretty clear, due to the Wii's very large userbase, that at least some of them are on Wii.

What if they are on the PS360 and they just didn't want GTA4? I'm not trying to make an argument that they are not Wii. I just have a conflict with the belief that everyone who bought SA would automatically buy GTA4. We have to consider the possibility that they simply passed on the opportunity to own the game.

I'm still holding out hope to see how The Conduit does. High Voltage Software is pretty much the poster child for a dev that saw where the winds were blowing and made a significant change (hopefully) early enough to make a difference for them. For other devs, I'm just hoping they can stand up porting teams/outsourced developers to move down PS360 content to the Wii. I'm not expecting much core new IP for the Wii outside of small games (which may or may not include The Conduit depending on your definition of "small").

They were able to do that because they are small. I am of the opinion that there will never be a shift from the major publishers because their business models are dependent on the HD paradigm and their organizations are too large to change that model. The true developer shift will come from the little guys. But the interesting thing about that is, the little guys will become the new big guys. If the Conduit actually became a moderate hit, all of the sudden High Voltage are THE fps guys on Wii. They didn't have to make a better game than Halo or MW2. All they had to do was bring the right game to the right audience at the right time. Other small developers will follow HV's lead. They'll do it, because like HV, they have nothing to do loose and everything to gain.

What will be most interesting to see is what happens when a new crop of big developers is formed on the new market leading console and all the old major developers are on the competitor's machine. It sort of reminds me of when EA decided to ignore the NES because they thought Nintendo was taking the industry backwards. Then when they saw the success of console gaming, the jumped on board with Sega, Nintendo's new competitor (but still part of the new market Nintendo had made).

 

[Halvie]

WOW at the top 20.....

has this been posted yet?

http://www.gamertell.com/gaming/comment/npds-top-20-us-video-games-sales-report-for-may-2009/

 

[SuperBonk]

No, you said it would be "significantly less" than what the PS3 version sold (28.6% less to be exact). However, you phrased that as if 1.37 million additional copies of GTAIV on Wii wouldn't be worth the effort, since it was "significantly" less than what the PS3 version sold. My position would be that 1.37 million might just be worth the effort, after all. :lol



That was my first response to you, IIRC, and, no, I don't think I misread what you wrote.



You brought up the idea of "even if we make the assumption" of the 1.37 million difference between GTA:SA and GTAIV being possible on the Wii, and said that it would still be "significantly" less than what the PS3 version sold, as if that made it not worth trying for. Maybe you should go back and read what you wrote. :lol

No no no no. Where did I ever say that porting it was not worth it? I didn't mention porting it at all. You're looking for things that aren't there. Just look at the words! I didn't use any complicated ones! There are no hidden meanings in what I said! It's allr right there on the page. Why do you insist on arguing a point of view I not only do not have but didn't even remotely state! The "significantly" was used to mirror your use of the word "significantly." This was not done in order to show GTAIV was not worth porting.

Also, the other person who misinterpreted my post was Opiate, not you. Apologies if that wording was confusing. I like to be very careful with my diction.

I didn't respond to that part, since I'd mostly agree. I'd rephrase it to say that the success of the Wii can be "largely attributed" to its ability to tap into a different demographic, but I didn't figure that was worth picking hairs over.

Well that's a shame because that's basically my whole argument. If you mostly agree then I'm not sure why you responded with

Uh, no. I'm going to have to disagree with you there. :lol

 

[B-Rad Lascelle]

WOW at the top 20.....

has this been posted yet?

http://www.gamertell.com/gaming/comment/npds-top-20-us-video-games-sales-report-for-may-2009/

All things considered I'd say that's an extremely solid opening month for Sacred 2.

 

[charlequin]

I'm still holding out hope to see how The Conduit does.

If this game is a big success, I will pretty happily eat my words (dudes were super-nice when I talked to them and they clearly cared about their product a lot) but I'm not going to hold my breath, y'know?

Those PSP fanservice spinoffs are amongst the best selling in the series in Japan since its prime. I mean I really don't get where you x-nay Tales of Symphonia 2 from being impressive from an obvious spin-off and even give a nudge to it selling far worse to a main entry in the series (that was also by far the best selling in the series as well).

My point is that the "mothership" Tales series has basically tanked this generation thus far. Last gen they debuted with Tales of Destiny 2 at 800k and hovered in the 500-700k range for the remainder of the PS2 gen; since moving from PS2 they've had main entries on DS and 360, plus ToS2 which, if not a "mothership" title, is at least a fairly meaty "escort," and none of them were able to break 250k.

It's possible Tales of Graces will do better, but the Tales brand as a whole has been in sorry shape recently.

It's the result of cheapen development.

Which was one of the biggest reasons I championed the Wii from the time it was announced; I just wish devs were doing more with it.

 

[donny2112]

And inFamous didn't come with the Uncharted 2 beta?

I had forgotten about that. Thanks for the reminder. I'd have to say that the Halo 3 beta was probably more desired than an Uncharted 2 beta, but it's still good to know.

Don't forget that the Halo 3 beta wasn't active for a few months after Crackdown's launch, so there was no reason for people to rush out and buy it if they JUST wanted it for the Halo 3 beta.

Don't forget that the Halo 3 beta was only available in the first shipment of Crackdown, so they had to jump on it early.

The Halo 3 beta might have raised the profile of Crackdown, but it sold because it was a ... good game.

It continued to sell because it was a good game, and people got more hyped for it towards release when the demo was put out. I'd still say that a hefty portion of its initial interest was due to the the Halo 3 beta, though, until people got a better idea of how the game itself was.

This revisionist history is stupid.

I agree. :lol

Remember that the Crackdown 2 announcement was more positively viewed by GAF press conference followers than almost anything else in all three conferences. People LOVE Crackdown.

Now, sure. I'm just saying that a good portion of the initial interest in the game was due to the Halo 3 beta. The actual Crackdown game turned out very well, and I think most everyone who bought it for the Halo 3 beta code was happy with their purchase. However, I think a lot of people did mainly buy it for the Halo 3 beta code. How many? It's really impossible to say, since we can't go back and change what happened. I say it was a hefty amount. You seem to think it wasn't. *shrugs*

What if they are on the PS360 and they just didn't want GTA4?
...
We have to consider the possibility that they simply passed on the opportunity to own the game.

It's entirely possible. GTA:SA > GTA:VC > GTAIII, but there's not definite reason for that trend to continue, even if GTAIV was on an equivalent PS2 system again. I find it likely that due to increasing sales with each release that the franchise was gaining popularity, which wouldn't support the idea of a ~20% drop in sales through the first 10 months for the next entry in the series. However, that doesn't make it impossible. Thanks for pointing that out.

I am of the opinion that there will never be a shift from the major publishers because their business models are dependent on the HD paradigm and their organizations are too large to change that model.

I honestly don't want them to shift from the PS360 to Wii. I just want them to add competent Wii versions of their multiplatform PS360 games. I don't think that's too much to expect. Oh, well.

If the Conduit actually became a moderate hit, all of the sudden High Voltage are THE fps guys on Wii. They didn't have to make a better game than Halo or MW2. All they had to do was bring the right game to the right audience at the right time. Other small developers will follow HV's lead. They'll do it, because like HV, they have nothing to do loose and everything to gain.

I certainly hope that The Conduit does very well, and if that leads to more FPSs from other small teams, that'd be great, too. We'll get the first idea of how that's going next month. I'm looking forward to finding out how The Conduit did, whichever way it comes out.

This was not done in order to show GTAIV was not worth porting.

Okay, my apologies. Thanks for the clarification.

If you mostly agree then I'm not sure why you responded with

You said my analysis was a bit off and had a bit of overreaction, and I didn't think that to be the case. The "disagree" wasn't in response to your whole post but just that final line. Does that make more sense?

 

[legend166]

The GTAIV sales analysis is pretty interesting. I doubt Take Two is happy with what was seemingly a massive increase in budget for lower sales. The DLC may have offset it though.

 

[SuperBonk]

Yeah, that's fine donny. I just wanted to make sure my point was not lost.

 

[AniHawk]

The GTAIV sales analysis is pretty interesting. I doubt Take Two is happy with what was seemingly a massive increase in budget for lower sales. The DLC may have offset it though.

Aren't they releasing the two DLC things on one disc? I may go against my better judgment and check it out.

 

[markatisu]

WOW at the top 20.....

has this been posted yet?

http://www.gamertell.com/gaming/comment/npds-top-20-us-video-games-sales-report-for-may-2009/

Wow Gardening Mama did better than I thought, I know the mama series on DS and Wii sells well but I did not expect to see it in the overall Top 20

Did CoD4 get a platinum or budget greatest hits release, just odd to see is spike over CoD WaW this late in its lifespan

 

[DuckRacer]

Wow Gardening Mama did better than I thought, I know the mama series on DS and Wii sells well but I did not expect to see it in the overall Top 20

Did CoD4 get a platinum or budget greatest hits release, just odd to see is spike over CoD WaW this late in its lifespan

Modern Warfare 2 hype?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

You raise an interesting point actually. Iwata pretty much confirmed that the next Nintendo system would support HD when it finally comes out. I wonder if that will pretty much mean the end of these genres on consoles outside of the few that will always exist (like Mario and Ratchet for platformers).

The reason of development costs exceeding the expenses of small and medium developers isn't due to the addition of more power or tech to a console, but more so due to more power and tech being the main focus of the platform.

This is why you see indie and small developers on the PC makes games like Zeno Clash as a norm while on the PS3/360 it's literally unheard of. This is because the PS3/360 is driven presentational fidelity that is always trying to out due itself. Yeah if you make a game for the PS3/360 you won't have to compete with the likes of Metal Gear Solid 4 or Gears of War 2 but you will have to live up to the standards for what is "decent" for games on those platforms at the time. And as time goes on this bar only raises as newer games consistently push the envelope (God of War III, Final Fantasy XIII). This is why development costs over a consoles life tends to INCREASE despite the cost and time of programing tends to DECREASE.

The PC doesn't have this problem as it tends to be an extremely diverse market as there is no main company striving to push or pull the market into a single direction. The Wii however does the latter, but in a way that is different than the PS3/360. With the Wii Nintendo pushes for games to be intuitive and "fun" (think of childhood gaming "fun"). Because of this things like presentation, tech, and in general the pushing of limits really takes a back seat so games like Trauma Center don't seem to be "lacking in features" or "depth", and games like Muramasa, Dragon Ball Adventure, and A Boy and His Blob don't seem to "lack immersion", or games like KORE Gang and The Munchables aren't "lacking in cinematic pacing".

Really if the Wii Plus keeps at least a similar image as the original Wii these genres should be fine.

Yeah, you have a good point there. The downloadable services are definitely getting a lot of nice platformers these days.

And yeah, I don't expect them to ever go away on handhelds, especially considering how well structured they are for them.

The only problem I see with this is that handhelds (though this is slowly changing) and (especially) downloadale services tend to have games that are far less in scope and ambition then games in retail.

If this game is a big success, I will pretty happily eat my words (dudes were super-nice when I talked to them and they clearly cared about their product a lot) but I'm not going to hold my breath, y'know?



My point is that the "mothership" Tales series has basically tanked this generation thus far. Last gen they debuted with Tales of Destiny 2 at 800k and hovered in the 500-700k range for the remainder of the PS2 gen; since moving from PS2 they've had main entries on DS and 360, plus ToS2 which, if not a "mothership" title, is at least a fairly meaty "escort," and none of them were able to break 250k.

It's possible Tales of Graces will do better, but the Tales brand as a whole has been in sorry shape recently.

I agree with this, but I don't see this as a reason to ignore TOS: DOTNW's disadvantage of being a spinoff. Also the Tales games you refer to were not only when the series was in its prime (and before the series was whored from the ritz to the ghetto) but also when serious gaming in Japan was near its prime.

Which was one of the biggest reasons I championed the Wii from the time it was announced; I just wish devs were doing more with it.

It's definitely improving. Still isn't where it needs to be but its getting there.

 

[xs_mini_neo]

This is not lowered expectations, but rather realistic expectations. Just because a handful, yes a handful, of games can sell 4 million in a month doesn't mean that every game must sell that much or be a failure. NMH was beyond niche and the fact that it sold as much as it did was an amazing success. Like I said earlier some of you people need to come back to reality and realize that every game has a different standard for success - a standard that we are rarely privy to. Not every game needs to sell millions to be successful.

Sadly this type of warped, unrealistic thinking is pervasive here and is sadly spreading and getting worse. Now 1 Million gets laughed at on here and soon it will be 2 then 3. The same thing applies to the 3rd party situation. I agree that things aren't good, but FFS the Wii is just getting started and people are actually claiming game over already. The exaggeration this place is prone to is beyond ridiculous.

It's called marketing.

Spoiler

and greed

The fact that in 2007 people were arguing that Wii should get, essentially, every series by dint of its market performance, and that people were seriously offering up ideas like "Square-Enix is moving FF13 to Wii," but now people are just begging for any meaningful support, is indicative.

Nobody said that. Panther said it would get Japanese support, but not American.

People criticize them today for their open fanboyism. They've been flailing about throwing any excuse in the book to excuse their behavior, hoping something sticks.

I'm honestly more pissed that the PSP is getting the games Wii owners have been wanting since the beginning. Seriously, not cool Japan.

On the bright side I guess it does show that something can be revived even when it's considered dead. But it's obvious that developers aren't going to do it without some kind of incentive.

And by incentive that means anything but Nintendo

Spoiler

or Sega

.

Really, when MS hate is somehow trumped by Nintendo hate, you know something went terribly wrong in the land of the rising sun. Especially since MS did more harm to them than Nintendo ever did, and yet all those Japanese pubs and devs are giving bj after bj to an American console by a hated American company. I wonder what Nomura would do if he didn't have a couple of big franchises (Disney, FF) to leech off of with his shitty un-American designs? I hope KH3 goes to the 360. Just for his long overdue meltdown. Make it happen, MS!

Hooray Punch-Out!!

Boo all those who bought UFC instead of Punch-Out!!

Rolling around feeling, punching and kicking other men in shorts is more appealing to young, hetero masculine males these days. Especially when its in HD!

 

[SapientWolf]

The reason of development costs exceeding the expenses of small and medium developers isn't due to the addition of more power or tech to a console, but more so due to more power and tech being the main focus of the platform.

This is why you see indie and small developers on the PC makes games like Zeno Clash as a norm while on the PS3/360 it's literally unheard of. This is because the PS3/360 is driven presentational fidelity that is always trying to out due itself. Yeah if you make a game for the PS3/360 you won't have to compete with the likes of Metal Gear Solid 4 or Gears of War 2 but you will have to live up to the standards for what is "decent" for games on those platforms at the time. And as time goes on this bar only raises as newer games consistently push the envelope (God of War III, Final Fantasy XIII). This is why development costs over a consoles life tends to INCREASE despite the cost and time of programing tends to DECREASE.

The PC doesn't have this problem as it tends to be an extremely diverse market as there is no main company striving to push or pull the market into a single direction. The Wii however does the latter, but in a way that is different than the PS3/360. With the Wii Nintendo pushes for games to be intuitive and "fun" (think of childhood gaming "fun"). Because of this things like presentation, tech, and in general the pushing of limits really takes a back seat so games like Trauma Center don't seem to be "lacking in features" or "depth", and games like Muramasa, Dragon Ball Adventure, and A Boy and His Blob don't seem to "lack immersion", or games like KORE Gang and The Munchables aren't "lacking in cinematic pacing".

Really if the Wii Plus keeps at least a similar image as the original Wii these genres should be fine.



The only problem I see with this is that handhelds (though this is slowly changing) and (especially) downloadale services tend to have games that are far less in scope and ambition then games in retail.



I agree with this, but I don't see this as a reason to ignore TOS: DOTNW's disadvantage of being a spinoff. Also the Tales games you refer to were not only when the series was in its prime (and before the series was whored from the ritz to the ghetto) but also when serious gaming in Japan was near its prime.





It's definitely improving. Still isn't where it needs to be but its getting there.

I disagree somewhat on this point. Code reuse / engine outsourcing and team experience can help keep costs down, especially near the end of a console's cycle when the tools have matured. A lot of the R&D dollars are being spent towards the next generation right now, not this one.

 

[dammitmattt]

Aren't they releasing the two DLC things on one disc? I may go against my better judgment and check it out.

Yes. And The Lost and Damned was excellent.

The GTAIV sales analysis is pretty interesting. I doubt Take Two is happy with what was seemingly a massive increase in budget for lower sales. The DLC may have offset it though.

Don't forget that they had an extra ~$120 million in revenue with the higher price point.

Don't forget that the Halo 3 beta was only available in the first shipment of Crackdown, so they had to jump on it early.

I don't remember it being limited at all.

 

[grandjedi6]

LOLOL You post reeks of fanboyism.

nothing but wishful thinking from a lot of you (this is GAF afterall).

It's time to get some perspective and come back to reality.

Sadly this type of warped, unrealistic thinking is pervasive here and is sadly spreading and getting worse.

The exaggeration this place is prone to is beyond ridiculous.

Because these "journalists" either don't care and/or agree with the Wii hate combined with the fact that they will never, ever question what anyone says to their face no matter how insane and ridiculous it is... unless it's Nintendo.

What's worse is the "I want it this way so everyone should too" GAF mentality.

Because I'm right. Though he has some balls even coming in here after the ridiculous crap he says.

Everyone who gives this guy the light of day should be ashamed of themselves.

Accept the Wii for what it is or move the fuck on.

And that's where the hypocrisy lies.

It's all a bunch of immature bullshit. Play what you like and accept that others will play what they like. Stop trying to be "right" or force your preferences on others by claiming some sort of standard.

 

[dammitmattt]

Nice job, grandjedi6. I love it when someone takes the time to do this. I particularly like this one:

Accept the Wii for what it is or move the fuck on

Because he seems to be leading the "please please please put real versions of your good franchises on Wii" brigade.

Dudes, it's been almost three years. You know what you're getting with the Wii. Accept it for what it is, and if you really, really want a certain type of game that isn't on the Wii, bitching on a message board is far less productive than just going out and actually buying the system that has the other games that you want to play.

 

[JoJo13]

And inFamous didn't come with the Uncharted 2 beta? That actually was up almost day and date?

Don't forget that the Halo 3 beta wasn't active for a few months after Crackdown's launch, so there was no reason for people to rush out and buy it if they JUST wanted it for the Halo 3 beta. The Halo 3 beta might have raised the profile of Crackdown, but it sold because it was a damn good game.

This revisionist history is stupid. Remember that the Crackdown 2 announcement was more positively viewed by GAF press conference followers than almost anything else in all three conferences. People LOVE Crackdown.

First month NPDs:

Halo 3 - Xbox 360 (Microsoft) - 3.3 million
PS3 Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune (T) 117k


Yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the primary reason Crackdown sold as well as it did is because it was packaged with the Halo 3 beta. There's a huge difference in the brand name of Uncharted 2 and Halo 3, and I know many gamers IRL that purchased Crackdown solely for the Halo 3 beta. Halo 3 is probably the biggest hardcore 'launch' and most anticipated launch of any title this gen. It was a big deal. Crackdown would have done much worse otherwise.

 

[MetatronM]

This revisionist history is stupid. Remember that the Crackdown 2 announcement was more positively viewed by GAF press conference followers than almost anything else in all three conferences. People LOVE Crackdown.

GAF is decidedly NOT representative of "people."

 

[Kenka]

- You may not get the next Street Fighter game. But you get the next Versus game.

- You may not get Gust's and NiS's adventure into the 3D realm. But you get Vanillaware continuously pushing the 2D realm as well as Image Epoch trying to make a name for themselves.

- You may not get the biggest franchises in North America and Europe. But you get the biggest franchises in Japan.

- You may not get realistic or cinematic bloody and violent Mature rated games. But you get highly stylized and unique bloody and violent Mature rated games.

- You may not see much progress in 3D. But you see many other forms of gaming coming back including 2D.

- You may not get the consistency of huge shooters and WRPG's. But you get tons of variety of games from smaller developers as well as many other genres making a comeback.

- You may not get too many significant multiplats. But you get many significant exclusives.

My case and point is that the Wii is a very different platform from the Xbox 360 and PS3. It is in no way inferior but more so just different. It may have some significant drawbacks when compared to the other two consoles but it also has some significant strengths against them as well. It doesn't matter what you wish the Wii to be or what you think it should be. What matters now is what the Wii actually IS, and you have the choice to either accept it and be happy with it or move onto another platform.

Flying_Phoenix, this is one of the most intelligent, neutral and well-thought posts I've very seen on GAF. Thanks buddy.

 

[Firestorm]

Nice job, grandjedi6. I love it when someone takes the time to do this. I particularly like this one:



Because he seems to be leading the "please please please put real versions of your good franchises on Wii" brigade.

Dudes, it's been almost three years. You know what you're getting with the Wii. Accept it for what it is, and if you really, really want a certain type of game that isn't on the Wii, bitching on a message board is far less productive than just going out and actually buying the system that has the other games that you want to play.

My favourite Scrub King post is the one where he says that people should want ports of the HD games and to ignore previous efforts because they were just lazy while in the SAME POST saying we shouldn't want original efforts because history shows developers just do lazy jobs.

Like I've said multiple times, he's a crankier version of Hero of Legend.

 

[jrricky]

SO what are we all discussing in this thread now, too lazy to read the wall of texts.

 

[AniHawk]

I dunno, but I just got done playing Swords and Soldiers for about an hour and it's pretty cool.

I'm not sure about you guys, but I think the Wii has a good variety of games that will be worth purchasing in 2009. I'm cheating and including downloadable games, but they're full games and not DLC packs so why not. Then again, I'm going through a backlog of games that accumulated while I was playing Fallout 3, Castlevania, and Mirror's Edge last year, so not waiting for the next thing to come along is probably part of it.

 

[Jocchan]

I almost forgot, some LTDS:

Wii Play: 10,764,756
Wii Fit: 7,304,869
PlayStation3: 7,749,396
Mario Kart Wii: 6,198,698

I see what you did there.

 

[Fredescu]

My favourite Scrub King post

Scrubking on Madworld sales:

Yes because Sega can show all of the graphic violence - what the game is all about - on a TV commercial.

God you people are so fucking stupid.

 

[AniHawk]

Scrubking on Madworld sales:

MadWorld may break 100k next month!


Yaaaaaaay, MadWorld!!

 

[gollumsluvslave]

Yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the primary reason Crackdown sold as well as it did is because it was packaged with the Halo 3 beta.

Whilst I'm sure there were some people that got Crackdown for the Halo beta, I think you'll find that like myself and most of my mates, the large majority of Crackdown 1st months sales came from people who downloaded the demo from live, lost a whole evening and were all like 'Day 1 Bitches!' :lol

I don't know if there are any stats for this kind of thing, but up until that demo came out, Crackdown was a bit of a laughing stock here on GAF, with only MrBob and a few others championing it. It's status here changed almost overnight when the demo was released.

Only other title I know that had such a response from a demo on Live was Bioshock.

 

[wackojackosnose]

I disagree somewhat on this point. Code reuse / engine outsourcing and team experience can help keep costs down, especially near the end of a console's cycle when the tools have matured. A lot of the R&D dollars are being spent towards the next generation right now, not this one.

GRIN will be very happy to hear that.

 

[boiled goose]

Flying_Phoenix, this is one of the most intelligent, neutral and well-thought posts I've very seen on GAF. Thanks buddy.

I agree.

Wii: the most casual and most hardcore platform

 

[Deleted member 30609]

paints quite the picture

MadWorld may break 100k next month!


Yaaaaaaay, MadWorld!!

I can't tell if you're joking or not.

Good to hear it wasn't a total bomb, if you're not.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I personally wanted to see JRPGs come to the Wii. I really didn't care about Western developers.

Hopefully DragonQuest X can pull some in when released. That, or Tales of Graces.

Oh, and Madworld may have bombed, but Bionic Commando bombed harder.

 

[jj984jj]

I personally wanted to see JRPGs come to the Wii. I really didn't care about Western developers.

Hopefully DragonQuest X can pull some in when released. That, or Tales of Graces.

Oh, and Madworld may have bombed, but Bionic Commando bombed harder.

If you want more RPGs on Wii supporting Arc Rise Fantasia is the best place to start.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Supporting JPRGs on Wii is hard. I mean, there's... Opoona? Arc Rise Fantasia is 2010. @_@

This has given me plenty of time to get to old games, though. Rather than spending money on theoretical new Wii games, I've played things I missed last gen like Xenosaga, Fable, Knights of the Old Republic, and Paper Mario TTYD.

 

[Jocchan]

MadWorld is all kinds of awesome. Third best game on Wii, after No More Heroes and Galaxy if you ask me. It deserved to sell much better, more focused advertising would have certainly helped that (the game itself is extremely niche - it's an ultraviolent brawler in black and white - but what about getting people to actually know what the game is about?).

 

[Eteric Rice]

If you want more RPGs on Wii supporting Arc Rise Fantasia is the best place to start.

I will be.

 

[szaromir]

First month NPDs:

Halo 3 - Xbox 360 (Microsoft) - 3.3 million
PS3 Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune (T) 117k


Yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the primary reason Crackdown sold as well as it did is because it was packaged with the Halo 3 beta. There's a huge difference in the brand name of Uncharted 2 and Halo 3, and I know many gamers IRL that purchased Crackdown solely for the Halo 3 beta. Halo 3 is probably the biggest hardcore 'launch' and most anticipated launch of any title this gen. It was a big deal. Crackdown would have done much worse otherwise.

Surely Halo 3 beta helped Crackdown sales, but don't forget that players' reactionto the demo was very positive as well as the fact that game sold over 1.5M copies while 900k people participated in the beta. It was still a very successful game, all facts considered.

 

[SilverLunar]

Man following this thread is painful to my eyes :/

Did the top 10 for all the systems have been released?