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[Pureauthor]

Yeah, well, Halo's 3.3. million sales don't count. I mean, it's Halo, it's going to tear up the charts either way. Can't use it in favour of the 360's situation, nope.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

This shouldn't come as a surprise, they did the exact same thing with the 20 gig.

And that didn't turn out too well.

 

[J-Rzez]

What you rather drop gaming as a hobby then play another brand's console? Only on Gaf.

No... I want the jumps in hardware... I want to notice a difference between gens... I want to be excited and look forward to the "Oh man, I wonder what this will look like now!", "I wonder how the new power will push physics", "I wonder if there's enough power to create a more living-breathing world to interact in"...

If Sony and MS took Ninty's approach, it's PC gaming solely for me... It's my tastes, it's what I want out of games, and I'm not saying Ninty can't satisfy people out there as I know they can... But, me personally, there's not a single thing that screams "Buy the Wii", sorry... I'm content with my traditional upgraded hardware, meaning I enjoy my PS3, 360, and PC... For quirky off games, I'll just pick up my DS... Once again, my opinion and tastes, yours will differ...

 

[Jokeropia]

So do you have numbers for TW? I'd like to see evidence of the Wii versions (both of them) doing as well as the 360 versions.

I can't post NPD numbers here, but Tiger Woods 07 Wii tracked better than Tiger Woods 07 360 in the US after two months of sales (all I've got on those games) and both Tiger Woods 07 and 08 Wii performed better in the PAL charts than the 360 version.

And the NDF would say that it was a crappy launch title that got steamrolled by RRR/Wii Sports, and doesn't count.

Perhaps, but your hypothetical scenario is void since the game DID sell well and brought up in a discussion about Wii third party sales can only serve as a positive example for Wii. Every successful system out there has given good sales to bad games.

 

[birdchili]

the biggest obstacle to sports games selling on the Wii is that most sports games have an established userbase that already exists on the other two consoles...<snip>...

Wii will have to carve out its own market for sports games, and Wii Sports is the basis developers should build off of. There's really no reason for traditional sports gamers to look to the Wii for anything that would interest them

disclaimer: i am not a sports gamer.

there was a video about the wii controls for a football (soccer) game recently that had a decidedly hardcore control mechanism that would be near-impossible to replicate with a pad. the pointer allows for some precision stuff (i don't remember the game, unfortunately).

also: wii is already selling far beyond the gamecube crowd. how many ps2-owners are going ps2->wii i have no idea, but the number is surely not zero. they certainly haven't all bought ps3s or 360s yet.

 

[Pureauthor]

Your hypothetical scenario is void since the game DID sell well and brought up in a discussion about Wii third party sales can only serve as a positive example for Wii. Every successful system out there has given good sales to bad games.

Yeah, well, your hypothetical scenario is void because I said so. So ha!

 

[donny2112]

Yeah, well, Halo's 3.3. million sales don't count. I mean, it's Halo, it's going to tear up the charts either way. Can't use it in favour of the 360's situation, nope.

Even more troublesome is that it's a first-party title. Can't have those tearing up the sales charts, because then third-parties will be afraid to compete with you.

 

[Joust Williams]

Yeah, if all of gaming turned into Wii--low power, games quality--I'd quit too. I don't like gaming because it's "gaming"...I like it because it's fun and I like the direction it is going with the exception of Wii (not 100%, but still).

It's like if you really liked a sport and then all the rules changed and you didn't like them. Would you still like it? Probably not.

 

[3rdman]

And that didn't turn out too well.

Hmm...I don't know about that. The 20GB was VERY difficult to find, wasn't it? I never saw one in the wild. I thought it was pretty clear that Sony killed it because it was bleeding too much money by selling it.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

The main goal for MS is to sustain the momentum. They got a huge boost with Halo 3 and now they have to make the best of it. The console bundle for the holidays should help in that regard even if it does appeal to mainly same gamers MS has been catering to for years.

 

[RBH]

For NPD predictors, I ran across an article that said the 40GB was going to be in short supply.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6488196.html?desc=topstory

Supply expected to be tight for stripped-down model
By Susanne Ault -- Video Business, 10/8/2007
OCT. 8 | U.S. retailers are excited about a new stripped-down $399 model of the PlayStation 3, but stores are anticipating supply will be tight.

However, sources say they have been warned by Sony reps that there will be production limitations on the new $399 PS3. Sony is expected to put most of its energy into generating its higher-end models, as they offer a better return on investment.

I really think that it would be a big mistake on Sony's part if they kept the supply of the 40 GB limited (as they did with the 20 GB).

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Yeah, well, Halo's 3.3. million sales don't count. I mean, it's Halo, it's going to tear up the charts either way. Can't use it in favour of the 360's situation, nope.

Well, in actuality, I think Halo's sales lend credence to the "dominant 1st party sales are bad for 3rd parties" line of thinking.

This is one of the worst months for 360 3rd party game sales this year isn't it? At least in terms of not having a standout debut like Lost Planet, GRAW 2, Guitar Hero 2, NCAA, Madden, or Bioshock.

And it definitely hurt the first week sales of FIFA in the PAL charts everywhere except UK, FIFA actually went up some places its second week on sale due to the decline of the 'Halo effect'.

If you're looking at putting out a game on Wii this holiday season, there's going to be a big chunk taken out by people

- playing Wii Sports pack-in
- buying Wii Play
- buying Mario Party 8
- buying Mario Galaxy
- buying Mario & Sonic at the Olympics
- buying Wii Fit (if it makes it)

In the face of all that, I really only see Guitar Hero 3 and Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 making a significant dent.

 

[Grecco]

Ooo so were back to Wii is killing gaming again awesome! I thought its shitty software sales meant you didnt have to worry about that.

I really only see Guitar Hero 3 and Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 making a significant dent

Thats cause there really isnt high quality third party support anyways

Resident Evil UC? Its an on rails shooter, these always sell horribly. Soul Calibur Legends? Meh.

Dont discout the Anime games though. Naruto next week and DBZ in November both will sell very well. I suspect Naruto Wii will outsell the Ubisoft x360 Naruto game.

 

[egocrata]

disclaimer: i am not a sports gamer.

there was a video about the wii controls for a football (soccer) game recently that had a decidedly hardcore control mechanism that would be near-impossible to replicate with a pad. the pointer allows for some precision stuff (i don't remember the game, unfortunately).

also: wii is already selling far beyond the gamecube crowd. how many ps2-owners are going ps2->wii i have no idea, but the number is surely not zero. they certainly haven't all bought ps3s or 360s yet.

That was Winning Eleven 3423245 (I forgot where we are now) aka Pro Evo Soccer 43534 (same).

The controls for that game look both absolutely friggin' awesome and totally insane at the same time. I am really curious how it will work (when I was dreaming on how to make a soccer game on the Wii, that was my idea) but absolutely terrified on how insanely hard to master it will be at first. If well implemented, I see it as a dream come true, don't be mistaken, by my brain hurts on how much I am going to suck at it at first.

 

[No6]

I can't post NPD numbers here, but Tiger Woods 07 Wii tracked better than Tiger Woods 07 360 in the US after two months of sales (all I've got on those games) and both Tiger Woods 07 and 08 Wii performed better in the PAL charts than the 360 version.

So when you said worldwide you were just making that up, since you really don't have any data?

Perhaps, but your hypothetical scenario is void since the game DID sell well and brought up in a discussion about Wii third party sales can only serve as a positive example for Wii. Every successful system out there has given good sales to bad games.

No, it's not void because the launch of a system is a unique event that results in non-repeating sales data. Pikmin 1 sold far better than Pikmin 2, Super Monkey Ball sold far better than SMB2, Call of Duty 2 sold... etc. Launches are poor indicators of individual title performance (but strong indicators of market demand for a transition).

 

[Jokeropia]

buying Mario & Sonic at the Olympics

This is a third party game.

So when you said worldwide you were just making that up, since you really don't have any data?

I have data for two months in the US (generally enough to determine a trend) and relative performance of the games in Europe. Japan sales don't really make a difference, but if it did it would favor the Wii.

No, it's not void because the launch of a system is a unique event that results in non-repeating sales data. Pikmin 1 sold far better than Pikmin 2, Super Monkey Ball sold far better than SMB2, Call of Duty 2 sold... etc. Launches are poor indicators of individual title performance (but strong indicators of market demand for a transition).

It doesn't change the fact that the game sold that much.

 

[gkryhewy]

I really think that it would be a big mistake on Sony's part if they kept the supply of the 40 GB limited (as they did with the 20 GB).

Maybe the whole 40 GB launch is just a smokescreen to get the phrase "supply constrained" back into Sony's PR.

 

[jetjevons]

1) Launch games don't count.

No, not really. For more details please see "history"

2) Established IPs don't count.

Yes, that was the stipulation. 3rd party original Ips that have sold a million+ in NA. Not saying that's necessarily a fair criteria but that was my off the cuff comment.

3) Games with Nintendo mascots don't count.

Well having a Nintendo mascot typically means your game is 1st party but I'm sure there are exceptions (Olympics, etc.)

4) Non-games/Casual-games don't count.

Sure they do!

5) Million-sellers don't count.

Sure they do!

6) Square-Enix games don't count.

Sure they do!

 

[egocrata]

Sidenote: seeing how Madden Wii is doing, I see one developer with a mission.

TECMO. We need another WII TECMO BOWL.

Yesterday.

Thanks.

 

[P90]

You meant PS3, right?

FF, KZ2, GT, GTA among others.

It is not just one game by itself. There's little doubt that PS3 library will get a major boost by holiday 08.

FF XIII? That will move a number of units in Japan. Elsewhere a decent amount.
KZ2? Hunh?
GT? That will move some units around the globe.
GTA is not exclusive. Why didn't you put DMC on the list then?

There is no doubt the PS3 will get a major boost in 08. But at this point, IMO, it is too late. And relative to the other two, that line up is not impressive.

I would not be the least bit suprised that Konami annouces MGS4 coming to the 360. It will be an "inferior" port, but when the PS3's footprint is so dinky compared to the 360's... Some gamers gotta buy enough copies of the game to keep it from being a big ball of loss for Konami. The 360's piece of the pie dwarfs the PS3's.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Excellent. I still can't find the original post with the source I was talking about, but I think it was from a GameMetrics or GamerMetrics? Google searches with those terms and "tie ratio" aren't finding the relevant things either.

So I found it. About a week back someone linked to this Gamasutra article in which Nick Williams claims the current tie ratios are 2.8 Wii, 3.0 PS3, 5.5 X360... which does sound terribly different than what sonycowboy and donny2112 have said.

 

[vanguardian1]

Sidenote: seeing how Madden Wii is doing, I see one developer with a mission.

TECMO. We need another WII TECMO BOWL.

Yesterday.

Thanks.

That is the absolute truth. I would gladly play $50 for a new Super Tecmo Bowl (the last football game I completely enjoyed).

 

[Arde5643]

You don't think people know? I think they just don't care and will continue to buy what they've been buying. Traditional Nintendo 1st party titles and non games. Just look at whats selling month after month. Which at this point kind of says to me they still have the traditional Nintendo gamer and now have picked up some non gamers as well. Or maybe the traditional Nintendo gamer likes non games as well. At this point I'm not honestly sure, it will have to flesh out a bit more.

Have you ever seen an ad for Madden 08 or Tiger 08 featuring the Wii controls? All I've seen ads for Madden or Tiger 08 are for 360.

Guess what happened when EA showed the ad for Tiger 07 featuring the Wii controls? Isn't it tracking better than the 360 version of 07?

 

[Chumly]

Rough list of WW Wii Million sellers

Wii Sports - Over like 8 million people have it?
Wii Play - Probably over 5 million
Zelda - Over 3 million
Mario Party 8 - Over 2 million
Warior Ware - 1.5 MillioN?
Super Paper Mario - Over 1 million
Red Steel - Over 1 million
Rayman Raving Rabbids - Over 1 million

Notables
RE4 - 750k
Trauma Center - One of Atlus's best selling games ever
Tiger Woods - Both games did decent tracking close to 360 versions
MP3 - Disappointing start (370K) but we most likely be a million seller WW by the end of the year
Sonic and the secret rings - Seemed to do pretty good much better than the PS3/360 counterparts should be over 500k
Mario Strikers Charged- Doing well in the US and Europe dispointing in Japan but should be over 500k
Pokemon Battle Revolution - Over 500k maybe 750k
Dragon Quest Swords - 450k

I know everyone likes to cry about Wii Software sales but I think this is a pretty dam impressive list. The Wii hasnt even had its second holiday season yet.

Spoiler

Feel free to correct me or add games

 

[djblackice]

FF XIII? That will move a number of units in Japan. Elsewhere a decent amount.
KZ2? Hunh?
GT? That will move some units around the globe.
GTA is not exclusive. Why didn't you put DMC on the list then?

There is no doubt the PS3 will get a major boost in 08. But at this point, IMO, it is too late. And relative to the other two, that line up is not impressive.

I would not be the least bit suprised that Konami annouces MGS4 coming to the 360. It will be an "inferior" port, but when the PS3's footprint is so dinky compared to the 360's... Some gamers gotta buy enough copies of the game to keep it from being a big ball of loss for Konami. The 360's piece of the pie dwarfs the PS3's.

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[Frenck]

Rough list of WW Wii Million sellers

Wii Sports - Over like 8 million people have it?
Wii Play - Probably over 5 million
Zelda - Over 3 million
Mario Party 8 - Over 2 million
Warior Ware - 1.5 MillioN?
Super Paper Mario - Over 1 million
Red Steel - Over 1 million
Rayman Raving Rabbids - Over 1 million

Notables
RE4 - 750k
Trauma Center - One of Atlus's best selling games ever
Tiger Woods - Both games did decent tracking close to 360 versions
MP3 - Disappointing start (370K) but we most likely be a million seller WW by the end of the year
Sonic and the secret rings - Seemed to do pretty good much better than the PS3/360 counterparts should be over 500k
Mario Strikers Charged- Doing well in the US and Europe dispointing in Japan but should be over 500k
Pokemon Battle Revolution - Over 500k maybe 750k
Dragon Quest Swords - 450k

I know everyone likes to cry about Wii Software sales but I think this is a pretty dam impressive list. The Wii hasnt even had its second holiday season yet.

Spoiler

Feel free to correct me or add games

Wii Sports and Wii Play come bundled with hardware, it's not a big accomplishment to sell games that way. Both games wouldn't sell half as many units if they weren't bundled.

I bet lots of "Reggie doesn't care" posts are inbound and the issue will be ignored as usual, but I wanted to comment on it anyway.

 

[felipeko]

Wii Sports and Wii Play come bundled with hardware, it's not a big accomplishment to sell games that way. Both games wouldn't sell half as many units if they weren't bundled.

I bet lots of "Reggie doesn't care" posts are inbound and the issue will be ignored as usual, but I wanted to comment on it anyway.

The problem is that Wii Sports and Wii Play affect other games sales...

 

[davepoobond]

The problem is that Wii Sports and Wii Play affect other games sales...

by having them not sell? what's your point by saying that?

 

[schuelma]

Wii Sports and Wii Play come bundled with hardware, it's not a big accomplishment to sell games that way. Both games wouldn't sell half as many units if they weren't bundled.

I bet lots of "Reggie doesn't care" posts are inbound and the issue will be ignored as usual, but I wanted to comment on it anyway.

And for the last time, Wii Sports is not bundled in Japan and has sold 2 Million copies.

 

[felipeko]

by having them not sell? what's your point by saying that?

He was saying Wii Sports and Wii Play doesn't count... But other games could be there if people had no Wii Sports or Wii Play to play...

 

[just tray]

I'm not surprised at the numbers. Would the wii had sold more if there was more systems available? I wonder what this means for holiday sales.

Bioshock continues to sell well and Call of Duty 4 on 360 will sell the most games next month. All in all it's a good year for gaming.

 

[laserbeam]

Wii Sports and Wii Play come bundled with hardware, it's not a big accomplishment to sell games that way. Both games wouldn't sell half as many units if they weren't bundled.

I bet lots of "Reggie doesn't care" posts are inbound and the issue will be ignored as usual, but I wanted to comment on it anyway.

Wii Sports is a standalone title in Japan and has sold over 2 million units alone as a standalone. thats more units sold then many games will ever see

 

[Ben Sones]

Japan has the highest HD penetration rate in the world.

Are you sure about that? I know they have the highest flatscreen penetration (the reduced size is a huge selling point, given the size of the average Japanese household), but a lot of those are "ED" televisions.

 

[davepoobond]

He was saying Wii Sports and Wii Play doesn't count... But other games could be there if people had no Wii Sports or Wii Play to play...

and other games would be there if no one had to buy a wii to play them

 

[3rdman]

Rough list of WW Wii Million sellers

Wii Sports - Over like 8 million people have it?
Wii Play - Probably over 5 million
Zelda - Over 3 million
Mario Party 8 - Over 2 million
Warior Ware - 1.5 MillioN?
Super Paper Mario - Over 1 million
Red Steel - Over 1 million
Rayman Raving Rabbids - Over 1 million

Notables
RE4 - 750k
Trauma Center - One of Atlus's best selling games ever
Tiger Woods - Both games did decent tracking close to 360 versions
MP3 - Disappointing start (370K) but we most likely be a million seller WW by the end of the year
Sonic and the secret rings - Seemed to do pretty good much better than the PS3/360 counterparts should be over 500k
Mario Strikers Charged- Doing well in the US and Europe dispointing in Japan but should be over 500k
Pokemon Battle Revolution - Over 500k maybe 750k
Dragon Quest Swords - 450k

I know everyone likes to cry about Wii Software sales but I think this is a pretty dam impressive list. The Wii hasnt even had its second holiday season yet.

Spoiler

Feel free to correct me or add games

So basically 1st party titles sell unless it was at launch. got it!

 

[gregor7777]

So basically 1st party titles sell unless it was at launch. got it!

LOL, and around and around we go!

 

[speculawyer]

For NPD predictors, I ran across an article that said the 40GB was going to be in short supply.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6488196.html?desc=topstory
Supply expected to be tight for stripped-down model
By Susanne Ault -- Video Business, 10/8/2007
OCT. 8 | U.S. retailers are excited about a new stripped-down $399 model of the PlayStation 3, but stores are anticipating supply will be tight.

I have officially become jaded and no longer believe the 'short supply' stuff anymore.

Buy xbox 360 quick! They are in short supply! Buy the PS3/20gb quick! They are in short supply! Buy a Wii quick! . . . they are in short supply! Buy the PS3/60Gb quick! . . . Those models with full h/w BC are in short supply. Buy the PS3/40Gb quick! They are in short supply! Etc. :lol

 

[Jokeropia]

So basically 1st party titles sell unless it was at launch. got it!

1 million is a ridiculously high bar for what can be considered to sell, especially considering the type of third party games Wii has been getting this first year. (As illustrated by Trauma Center being Atlus' highest selling game ever. A game like that doesn't need to sell millions to be a smashing success. Resident Evil 4 Wii also sold 750k in slightly over two months when Capcom's worldwide lifetime projection for the game was 420k.)

 

[Version 3.0]

I have officially become jaded and no longer believe the 'short supply' stuff anymore.

Buy xbox 360 quick! They are in short supply! Buy the PS3/20gb quick! They are in short supply! Buy a Wii quick! . . . they are in short supply! Buy the PS3/60Gb quick! . . . Those models with full h/w BC are in short supply. Buy the PS3/40Gb quick! They are in short supply! Etc. :lol

The Wii was supposed to NOT be in short supply, pre-launch. It really has been ever since then. I got one on launch day, and never saw another in-store until this month. The 360 was also actually hard to get for a while. So sometimes it's true. I think it's hard to call for these 40 gig PS3's, though, they might go fast but I doubt they'll be truly hard to find.

 

[Metal Messiah]

And for the last time, Wii Sports is not bundled in Japan and has sold 2 Million copies.

Wii Sports is the very definition of killer application.

 

[SuperBanjo]

Are we going to get a top 20 like the other months? I'd really like to see how games like Carnival Games and Blue Dragon did.

NPD needs to throw us a bone here.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

And for the last time, Wii Sports is not bundled in Japan and has sold 2 Million copies.

Isn't this an NPD thread which means we are discussing sales in North America?

 

[3rdman]

1 million is a ridiculously high bar for what can be considered to sell, especially considering the type of third party games Wii has been getting this first year. (As illustrated by Trauma Center being Atlus' highest selling game ever. A game like that doesn't need to sell millions to be a smashing success. Resident Evil 4 Wii also sold 750k in slightly over two months when Capcom's worldwide lifetime projection for the game was 420k.)

Yep...I don't disagree. I'm just poking some fun at the same ole' tired arguments.

 

[Frillen]

Rough list of WW Wii Million sellers

Wii Sports - Over like 8 million people have it?
Wii Play - Probably over 5 million
Zelda - Over 3 million
Mario Party 8 - Over 2 million
Warior Ware - 1.5 MillioN?
Super Paper Mario - Over 1 million
Red Steel - Over 1 million
Rayman Raving Rabbids - Over 1 million

Notables
RE4 - 750k
Trauma Center - One of Atlus's best selling games ever
Tiger Woods - Both games did decent tracking close to 360 versions
MP3 - Disappointing start (370K) but we most likely be a million seller WW by the end of the year
Sonic and the secret rings - Seemed to do pretty good much better than the PS3/360 counterparts should be over 500k
Mario Strikers Charged- Doing well in the US and Europe dispointing in Japan but should be over 500k
Pokemon Battle Revolution - Over 500k maybe 750k
Dragon Quest Swords - 450k

I know everyone likes to cry about Wii Software sales but I think this is a pretty dam impressive list. The Wii hasnt even had its second holiday season yet.

Spoiler

Feel free to correct me or add games

Zelda Wii is over 4 Million actually. 2 Million in NA, 1.5 Mill in Europe and 500k+ in Japan.

 

[Jackson]

did anyone else see the Voodoo Extreme NPD leaked charts? had top 50 console, top 50 PC, and top 10 per console...

I dunno if its been discussed in this thread yet

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Wii Sports is the very definition of killer application.

This thread is fun in retrospect.

 

[bud]

my sales numbers for this month were 430k

i'm first party so that doesn't count

 

[crbowen]

No... I want the jumps in hardware... I want to notice a difference between gens... I want to be excited and look forward to the "Oh man, I wonder what this will look like now!", "I wonder how the new power will push physics", "I wonder if there's enough power to create a more living-breathing world to interact in"...

If Sony and MS took Ninty's approach, it's PC gaming solely for me... It's my tastes, it's what I want out of games, and I'm not saying Ninty can't satisfy people out there as I know they can... But, me personally, there's not a single thing that screams "Buy the Wii", sorry... I'm content with my traditional upgraded hardware, meaning I enjoy my PS3, 360, and PC... For quirky off games, I'll just pick up my DS... Once again, my opinion and tastes, yours will differ...

What...is with...your obsession...with using...ellipses...?...

 

[Version 3.0]

Again, PS3 software sales wouldn't have been that bad if the PS3 hardware sales hadn't sucked ass.

Reposting this btw to avoid it getting ignored:

"If we had some ham, we could have ham and eggs...if we had some eggs."

Don't be so sure about the might-have-beens. It's impossible to say. Maybe if the PS3 cost less, it'd move more hardware and people would have more money left over for more games, increasing both hardware sales and tie ratio. Or maybe current PS3 owners are only the hardest of the hardcore, and higher hardware sales would've come with more casual buyers and Blue-Ray movie buyers and a watered-down tie ratio. You can't say. It's very possible to have good hardware sales and bad software sales--take the PSP. Or the Wii, what's to say the PS3 wouldn't be in the same boat as the Wii if it were selling as well?

Maybe Wii Sports as a pack-in is keeping people from buying other games--or maybe most would just buy Wii Sports separately anyway, and those who wouldn't are still buying other games. Can't say. We can only speculate.

I think you can include Wii Sports in a tie ratio or not, and either is fair, but you also need the caveat that it's a pack-in, and the other case's number to be fair.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

This was a 5 week NPD month, wasn't it? Are October, November and December just 4 week NPD months? Anyone know?