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[goldenpp72]

I disagree about gta4 hurting ps3, the cheaper ps3 is when gta4 comes out, the more that might choose a ps3 over 360 for the title, it hurts MS long term imo.

 

[Fatghost]

I disagree about gta4 hurting ps3, the cheaper ps3 is when gta4 comes out, the more that might choose a ps3 over 360 for the title, it hurts MS long term imo.

Depends on a few things.

1. Which console will have the better version of GTA?

2. Assuming the two versions are the same quality wise, which system has the overall more appealing library?

3. Which system will be cheaper?

There's a lot there that is outside of Sony's direct control.

 

[Maxwell House]

The article is from October 8th. I did find this part interesting, though.



I thought Sony was losing less money on the 40GB consoles than the higher-end models?

Wow, sounds like the 40 gig could be like the ever elusive 20 gig model.

Will the real price of PS3 this Christmas be $500 (since no one can find the 40 gig model)???

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I disagree about gta4 hurting ps3, the cheaper ps3 is when gta4 comes out, the more that might choose a ps3 over 360 for the title, it hurts MS long term imo.

Do you think that exclusive content disclaimer is going to go by unnoticed? Microsoft is going to shout that to the rooftops. Hell, it might come in the box with the main packaging since that is still on schedule.

 

[TheRipDizz]

What gets me most about this thread is how many people are apologizing for the Wii barely getting beat by the 360, since Microsoft threw it "nuclear bomb" at it and it still came close. How amazing! :| Do you guys realize there was an entire NPD thread saying it wasn't going to happen? Do you know why so many people said it wasn't going to happen? Lemme tell you, they had some pretty good reasons......... and it still did. I swear.

 

[Maxwell House]

I can't post NPD numbers here, but Tiger Woods 07 Wii tracked better than Tiger Woods 07 360 in the US after two months of sales (all I've got on those games) and both Tiger Woods 07 and 08 Wii performed better in the PAL charts than the 360 version.
Perhaps, but your hypothetical scenario is void since the game DID sell well and brought up in a discussion about Wii third party sales can only serve as a positive example for Wii. Every successful system out there has given good sales to bad games.

Golf games lend themselves very well to waggle.

 

[goldenpp72]

Agent icebreezy, while I admire your view and wish it were true, I have very little faith in microsofts ability to advertise anything that isn't the next halo (halo, gears) They promised to market viva pinata until our teeth fell out and we ended up getting one ad that played for like 3 days. Sure gta4 is way more important, but when MS can't advertise their other 1st party titles I just have a lack of faith.

I also don't think gta4 is coming in the spring, but in fact a year from now. Basically my logic is simple. GTA4 launches today, it has a 7 million + userbase to sell to on 360 and.. 2 million ps3 in the US, with about 3-4 million 360s in europe vs another couple million ps3s. Topped off with a high price and very few good games, I imagined say, a 15 million sold gta4 selling about 10 million of that on 360 (change ratio to whatever you think it would sell), where as a gta4 in the future where ps3 is cheaper, more hardware and games are out, the split changes in favor of sony.

It's basically common sense to me, the later gta4 is the more it will hurt microsoft, but help sony. As I have no desire to see sony beat microsoft, i'd rather be wrong.

 

[Wollan]

GTA4 next spring instead of this fall hurts MS much more than it does Sony.
Sony have been able to lower the PS3 price in time for the release now and they're going to build on their install base worldwide this Christmas. You're going to see a higher uptake of PS3 consoles when the GTA adopters come into the picture (compared to what it would have done this October) and Sony will have worked out smaller kinks like rumble and trophies in time for the release.

 

[speculawyer]

What gets me most about this thread is how many people are apologizing for the Wii barely getting beat by the 360, since Microsoft threw it "nuclear bomb" at it and it still came close. How amazing! :| Do you guys realize there was an entire NPD thread saying it wasn't going to happen? Do you know why so many people said it wasn't going to happen? Lemme tell you, they had some pretty good reasons......... and it still did. I swear.

Well . . . since it has been supply constrained for its entire existence, the Wii probably could have easily beat the 360 if they put enough of them on store shelves. I thought the Wii was going to sell less since I though Nintendo might have been hoarding them for November xmas shopping.

 

[Maxwell House]

GTA4 next spring instead of this fall hurts MS much more than it does Sony.
Sony have been able to lower the PS3 price in time for the release now and they're going to build on their install base worldwide this Christmas. You're going to see a higher uptake of PS3 consoles when the GTA adopters come into the picture (compared to what it would have done this October) and Sony will have worked out smaller kinks like rumble and trophies in time for the release.

No, Sony not having GTA IV, a true blockbuster, means they don't have a single title of that caliber for Christmas 2007. That is going to hurt PS3 sales very much in the ever important holiday shopping season.

If GTAIV was out this Christmas, you would see much more interest in the PS3. As it is, the interest in PS3 is very lackluster, and I am not sure how much of an effect the $400 price drop will have when there aren't any titles that make people WANT to own a PS3 this fall.

Sure, Sony will have a larger user base now when GTA IV releases and will probably get to sell a few more copies because of the delay, but it comes at the cost of lowerered Christmas hardware sales for the PS3 (much lowered, IMO).

With Halo 3 and Mass Effect, MS didn't really need GTA IV this Christmas to have high demand for its console. Sony isn't in that same position, so GTA IV moving to spring hurts them more.

 

[KeithFranklin]

GTA4 isnt going to help PS3 a lick. MS has all the control they need. They will have a vastly larger install base. They will be positioned to easily drop the 360 price while Sony would be faced with even more desperation. For the people just wanting GTA4 the 360 Arcade SKU will be staring at them in the face at at least $120 less then the cheapest PS3. The 360 will be sitting there with a good dozen or more titles with 90% score or better on GameRankings. PS3 will have what maybe 3 when GTA4 launches.

Library and lower barrier to entry will benefit 360 greatly.

 

[Beer Monkey]

GTA4 next spring instead of this fall hurts MS much more than it does Sony.
Sony have been able to lower the PS3 price in time for the release now and they're going to build on their install base worldwide this Christmas. You're going to see a higher uptake of PS3 consoles when the GTA adopters come into the picture (compared to what it would have done this October) and Sony will have worked out smaller kinks like rumble and trophies in time for the release.

Everybody so passionate about GTA, yet would only get a PS3 with a couple of more pricecuts, doesn't give a crap that the only system that can provide the GTA episodes is the more affordable system?

Hooray for the more-expensive-yet-finally-somewhat-affordable-system-that-can't-provide-the-full-GTA-experience.

Wollan, do us a favor. Pick something objective. What quarter of what financial year do you think that PS3 will surpass 360 sales in North America? I'd say the whole world, but Europe hides their sales figures.

 

[speculawyer]

GTA4 next spring instead of this fall hurts MS much more than it does Sony.
Sony have been able to lower the PS3 price in time for the release now and they're going to build on their install base worldwide this Christmas. You're going to see a higher uptake of PS3 consoles when the GTA adopters come into the picture (compared to what it would have done this October) and Sony will have worked out smaller kinks like rumble and trophies in time for the release.

:lol

 

[Wollan]

Simply cut, the delay of GTA4 means that Sony will be able to take a bigger piece of the pie.

:lol

I suggest this to be your new tag. Whenever you haven't had an answer for the last year this is your reply. You're a part of the sheep herd spec.
Sony benefitted from the GTA4 delay. It was the first thing that came into peoples mind when the announcement was made, developers posted here on GAF the same opinion that day, Sony released a grin pr about how they would be ready. Just look at the facts which I listed in my previous post, it really isn't something debatable.

 

[Fatghost]

Everybody so passionate about GTA, yet would only get a PS3 with a couple of more pricecuts, doesn't give a crap that the only system that can provide the GTA episodes is the more affordable system?

Hooray for the more-expensive-yet-finally-somewhat-affordable-system-that-can't-provide-the-full-GTA-experience.

Right, but something about eveyone played it on PS2 and so they are somehow bound to play it on PS3, provided the price can come down, or something like that.

 

[schuelma]

Simply cut, the delay of GTA4 means that Sony will be able to take a bigger piece of the pie.

I still don't completely understand your rationale on this one.

As far as userbases go, I'm pretty sure 360's lead is going to be even bigger next Spring than it is now.

 

[KeithFranklin]

Simply cut, the delay of GTA4 means that Sony will be able to take a bigger piece of the pie.

Yet PS3 will be even further behind when GTA4 releases then it is today.

 

[Maxwell House]

Simply cut, the delay of GTA4 means that Sony will be able to take a bigger piece of the pie.

I don't see that happening, because MS will sell more 360s this CHristmas than Sony.

PS3 will end up getting a smaller piece of the pie as MS sells millions of 360s in November/December.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Simply cut, the delay of GTA4 means that Sony will be able to take a bigger piece of the pie.

A bigger percent? The delay will mean that the 360 install base will have grown even larger than the PS3 install base will have grown. Relative to PS3 marketshare, 360 marketshare will only be even greater in the spring.

 

[Darkman M]

In the global market, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that sentiment.

Just look at many of the posts here saying "PS3 will become 2nd worldwide, but they lost America."

I dont know if you can flop in America and still be number 2 world wide, especially if you are going toe to toe with the 360 in Sonyland.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Agent icebreezy, while I admire your view and wish it were true, I have very little faith in microsofts ability to advertise anything that isn't the next halo (halo, gears) They promised to market viva pinata until our teeth fell out and we ended up getting one ad that played for like 3 days. Sure gta4 is way more important, but when MS can't advertise their other 1st party titles I just have a lack of faith.

The revolution will be televised with GTA4, believe that.

 

[Sol..]

Everybody so passionate about GTA, yet would only get a PS3 with a couple of more pricecuts, doesn't give a crap that the only system that can provide the GTA episodes is the more affordable system?

Hooray for the more-expensive-yet-finally-somewhat-affordable-system-that-can't-provide-the-full-GTA-experience.

Wollan, do us a favor. Pick something objective. What quarter of what financial year do you think that PS3 will surpass 360 sales in North America? I'd say the whole world, but Europe hides their sales figures.

lol we will see how much of a full experience it will be when the prices come out for the mission packs.

I cant WAIT.

 

[schuelma]

Quadruple team! :lol

 

[Darkman M]

Simply cut, the delay of GTA4 means that Sony will be able to take a bigger piece of the pie.

Huh? The delay means rockstar cut sonys throat if that happened.

 

[Maxwell House]

MS will co-market GTA IV with Take TWo as they did Madden with EA.

GTA IV for 360 will become known as the definitive version IMO, with MS making sure everyone knows about the 2 exclusive DL episodes for it on the 360.

And don't be surprised if the 360 version ends up a bit better graphically. It is the lead platform afterall.

I see 360 getting about the same markestshare of GTA IV as it did for Madden 08, if not moer.

 

[Beer Monkey]

lol we will see how much of a full experience it will be when the prices come out for the mission packs.

I cant WAIT.

By that argument, if Vice City were a PS2 exclusive after GTA III, that would be a bad thing since it wasn't fee.

 

[Wollan]

A bigger percent? The delay will mean that the 360 install base will have grown even larger than the PS3 install base will have grown. Relative to PS3 marketshare, 360 marketshare will only be even greater in the spring.

Why oh why are you guys still just focusing on US soil? GTA is huge in Europe.

Anyways, I'm jumping out again. You're still on your high.
The biggest and most important software release of the X360's lifespan just took place, the console sold 100k more than expected. It's good times.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Simply cut, the delay of GTA4 means that Sony will be able to take a bigger piece of the pie.

X360 sees a MUCH larger increase in userbase during the time between planned release date to actual release date than Sony sees...and X360 gains in percentage overall of GTA IV copies sold because X360 sales had a massive increase in momentum and PS3 did not by the same degree.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

MS will co-market GTA IV with Take TWo as they did Madden with EA.

GTA IV for 360 will become known as the definitive version IMO, with MS making sure everyone knows about the 2 exclusive DL episodes for it on the 360.

And don't be surprised if the 360 version ends up a bit better graphically. It is the lead platform afterall.

I see 360 getting about the same markestshare of GTA IV as it did for Madden 08, if not moer.

Co-oping GTA4 was always in the cards and it will be done on a much large scale than Madden was done.

 

[schuelma]

Why oh why are you guys still just focusing on US soil? GTA is huge in Europe.

Anyways, I'm jumping out again. You're still on your high.
The biggest and most important software release of the X360's lifespan just took place, the console sold 100k more than expected. It's good times.

Oh come on. It sold 100K above the already high expectations it had. That's completely disengeuous. 360 is going to absolutely slaughter the PS3 this year in N.A. Why wouldn't 360 fans be feeling good?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

A bigger percent? The delay will mean that the 360 install base will have grown even larger than the PS3 install base will have grown. Relative to PS3 marketshare, 360 marketshare will only be even greater in the spring.

Probably not. As is, X360S3 LTD is 4:1. Any months between now and then where X360 isn't quadrupling PS3's sales means PS3 is gaining percentage share in the PS360 market.


EDIT: So just to toss out an example, as things are it's 80% X360 and 20% PS3. If by the time GTA IV comes out X360 has sold another 4 million to PS3's 2 million, the makeup will then be 75% X360 and 25% PS3.

 

[Sol..]

By that argument, if Vice City were a PS3 exclusive after GTA III, that would be a bad thing since it wasn't fee.

By that argument, you can't have the full experience of a ipod without 300 dollar headphones, a car charger, a plastic skin, portable speakers, headphone splitters, stickers, all the music in the world with DRM, all the music in the world WITHOUT DRM, etc etc. "The full experience" is a slippery slope THEIR side uses to abuse consumers. Don't help them.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Wollan: never change. Please.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Probably not. As is, X360S3 LTD is 4:1. Any months between now and then where X360 isn't quadrupling PS3's sales means PS3 is gaining percentage share in the PS360 market.

MS is ~5.5 million ahead in NA. If they are 'only' ~6.5 million ahead come spring ('only' because maybe they have a smaller percentage lead), we should assume that the 1 million marginal buyers don't care about GTA IV?

By that argument, you can't have the full experience of a ipod without 300 dollar headphones, a car charger, a plastic skin, portable speakers, headphone splitters, stickers, all the music in the world with DRM, all the music in the world WITHOUT DRM, etc etc. "The full experience" is a slippery slope THEIR side uses to abuse consumers. Don't help them.

If Sony only got Half-Life2, while 360 also got Episodes 1 and 2 of HL2, which one got the fuller experience?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

By that argument, you can't have the full experience of a ipod without 300 dollar headphones, a car charger, a plastic skin, portable speakers, headphone splitters, stickers, all the music in the world with DRM, all the music in the world WITHOUT DRM, etc etc. "The full experience" is a slippery slope THEIR side uses to abuse consumers. Don't help them.

What with the insistence on Blu-ray and all, I don't think Sony has exactly shied from the "pay more for the full experience!" strategy.

 

[goldenpp72]

I've already theorized that microsoft would advertise gta4 as they did with madden, on top of the exclusive content AND a price drop. However I can't say i'm confident that microsoft would repeat that brilliant decision again.

Or that rockstar would allow it, they might not want sony to die considering they are making exclusives on it.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

MS is ~5.5 million ahead in NA. If they are 'only' ~6.5 million ahead come spring ('only' because maybe they have a smaller percentage lead), we should assume that the 1 million marginal buyers don't care about GTA IV?

Irrelevant. He said PS3 would get a larger piece of the pie; you admit as much by saying X360 will have a smaller percentage lead. That's share. In absolute units, certainly I expect a spring GTA IV to have a bigger X360 lead than an October GTA IV would have.

 

[ccbfan]

I don't understand how the GTA4 delay hurts 360 but helps PS3?

1.360 have a quite a few huge sellers this holiday season. Adding GTA4 would actually over crowd an already overcrowded release list. PS3 on the other hand needs all the games it can get.

2.By the end of Christmas 360 will be the definitive system for almost all popular core gamer type 3rd party games in NA (Madden, GTA, Tony Hawk, NCAA, GH, COD, GRAW). The increase in userbase will solidify this. This is the season where the PS2 heir in the US is going to be crowned as the core gamer system (used to be known as casuals but then the casual term got bumped down a slot and now became non-gamers).



Then after the holiday season comes GTA4 which the 360 will have the definitive version, will probably be the adverised version and also be what most customers allign it with.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I've already theorized that microsoft would advertise gta4 as they did with madden, on top of the exclusive content AND a price drop. However I can't say i'm confident that microsoft would repeat that brilliant decision again.

Or that rockstar would allow it, they might not want sony to die considering they are making exclusives on it.

With 50 million fronted to you, I think you are forced to bend over and like it.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Irrelevant. He said PS3 would get a larger piece of the pie; you admit as much by saying X360 will have a smaller percentage lead. That's share. In absolute units, certainly I expect a spring GTA IV to have a bigger X360 lead than an October GTA IV would have.

So there are scenarios where MS should wish that they sold fewer copies of GTA IV. Sometimes it's better to make smaller royalties off of fewer units sold.

 

[titiklabingapat]

What gets me most about this thread is how many people are apologizing for the Wii barely getting beat by the 360, since Microsoft threw it "nuclear bomb" at it and it still came close. How amazing! :| Do you guys realize there was an entire NPD thread saying it wasn't going to happen? Do you know why so many people said it wasn't going to happen? Lemme tell you, they had some pretty good reasons......... and it still did. I swear.

What the NPD figures only really meant is that Nintendo shipped exactly 501k for September. That's it.

The Wii could have easilly beaten a discounted, Halo-ized 360 if Nintendo really wanted to.

 

[Sol..]

If Sony only got Half-Life2, while 360 also got Episodes 1 and 2 of HL2, which one got the fuller experience?

360 no doubt....if it came in the basic package at the same price.

If they both came with just HL2 then episodes sprung up later on as marketplace transactions. Thats just the gravy you may or may not want. The full experience is package and framework itself. To believe otherwise invites bad credit lol.

Think about it. What do you consider the full experience? The Orange Box....or buying HL2 (not going gold/silver/whatever color of course lol) on launch then later having to buy episode one and then later episode 2? Thank god steam was nice enough to give me a gift thingy.

and Josh.....i'm not pointing elbows. Because i don't have enough elbows. The "full experience" is just another one of those things salesmen try to pitch to get me to buy more crap.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

What the NPD figures only really meant is that Nintendo shipped exactly 501k for September. That's it.

The Wii could have easilly beaten a discounted, Halo-ized 360 if Nintendo really wanted to.

Do you have any verified sources on how many Wii's were shipped to America in September?

 

[909er]

With 50 million fronted to you, I think you are forced to bend over and like it.

Forced? For $50 million I would apply the lube myself.

 

[speculawyer]

Simply cut, the delay of GTA4 means that Sony will be able to take a bigger piece of the pie.

Enough have hammered on this . . . Ill just add this:
:lol

You're a part of the sheep herd spec.

I guess that is kinda true . . . and that is the point . . . the sheep herd has spoken. And sheep herd likes Wiis & 360s.

Haaaaay-lo say the sheep.

Edit: That said . . . I hope I'm wrong. I'd love to see a more competitive market. I've recently picked up Motorstorm & Heavenly Sword. I'll definitely pick up Uncharted too.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So there are scenarios where MS should wish that they sold fewer copies of GTA IV. Sometimes it's better to make smaller royalties off of fewer units sold.

Whaaa? I think you're trying to read too much into a simple statement.

 

[goldenpp72]

I doubt anyone would deny halo 3 is a system seller, halo 3 not existing would cause the 360s overall sales to be far slower, the statement more so means halo 3 on release won't sell any units because people already bought the system for it long ago.

 

[Meier]

Do you have any verified sources on how many Wii's were shipped to America in September?

GTFO here. Everyone knows that essentially every Wii on store shelves is sold within a day or two in the US. This is one of those indisputable facts.. kinda like Halo 3's sales being the most impressive thing in video game history.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

GTFO here. Everyone knows that essentially every Wii on store shelves is sold within a day or two in the US. This is one of those indisputable facts.. kinda like Halo 3's sales being the most impressive thing in video game history.

Chill.

He said Nintendo could have beaten the 360 if they wanted to. So why didn't they? No one really seems to actually know how many Wii's where shipped, so everything else is anecdotal.

Who knew that asking for actual #'s was a bad thing in an NPD thread...

 

[Mrbob]

I don't understand how the GTA4 delay hurts 360 but helps PS3?

1.360 have a quite a few huge sellers this holiday season. Adding GTA4 would actually over crowd an already overcrowded release list. PS3 on the other hand needs all the games it can get.

2.By the end of Christmas 360 will be the definitive system for almost all popular core gamer type 3rd party games in NA (Madden, GTA, Tony Hawk, NCAA, GH, COD, GRAW). The increase in userbase will solidify this. This is the season where the PS2 heir in the US is going to be crowned as the core gamer system (used to be known as casuals but then the casual term got bumped down a slot and now became non-gamers).



Then after the holiday season comes GTA4 which the 360 will have the definitive version, will probably be the adverised version and also be what most customers allign it with.

If PS3 doesn't cut any momentum soon, the release of GTA4 could be the nail in the coffin for the system.