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One million on Xbox Live
- Thread starter daMandus
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Try again. There's actually some 85+ million PS2/XBox consoles out there (100+ million when you add in GameCube)... seems clear that most consumers couldn't care less about online.DJ Demon J said:
Online uptake is currently around 5% of the console market at large. That definitely strikes me as an enthusiast niche more than anything...
Prine said:
Oh no, I'm sure Live accounts will carry over (to PC as well)... I'm just saying there's no guarantee that Microsoft's XBox userbase (online or not) will carry over into the next generation. Incompatabilty between console software sort of throws a wrench into that...DarienA said:
AirBrian said:
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/5353/Xbox-Live-Xbox-Sales-Figures-Update
jarrod said:
??? Just because you buy a new computer doesn't mean your ISP won't work. XBL is a service and will be fully compatable with both Xbox and Xenon.
Bluemercury
Member
DJ Demon J said:
Well whatever, ill continue to play my CS/Dod and other pc free online games like probably 90% of pple who play online games do, meanwhile you can check the dictionary trying to find the reasons of this........
Also i assumed that anything Iwata said was wrong.....guess i've been visiting a different GAF...........
jarrod said:Try again. There's actually some 85+ million PS2/XBox consoles out there (100+ million when you add in GameCube)... seems clear that most consumers couldn't care less about online.
What???...that's like saying most consumers don't care about Metroid Prime because it only sold a million copies.
Bluemercury
Member
jedimike said:
So let me see, do i have to pay fees to play Metroid Prime every month???damn, lucky me i got a pirate copy then...
jarrod said:
When you're talking about market penetration, which is what you're doing, Sega CD was more successful than Sonic. More consumers felt that Sega CD was more worthy of owning than Sonic the Hedgehog.
If you look at subscription rate of HBO compared to the total number of people that own TV's... I'm sure it would look like a failure too.
Thanks for the link.jedimike said:
From the MS PR http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040715/sfth052_1.html
Sounds like this includes the free subscriptions.
Still there's no real relevance in these comparisons you're making. Comapring for example HBO subscribers to the number of people watching Friends or some other show strikes as a bit off base. Most game consumers buy games (which are a much smaller investment than a network infastructure). Most game consumers don't play online, indeed only a tiny fracion bother with it. Software is what fuels console gaming, online is simply a niche segment of that.jedimike said:
DJ Demon J
Banned
jarrod said:Try again. There's actually some 85+ million PS2/XBox consoles out there (100+ million when you add in GameCube)... seems clear that most consumers couldn't care less about online.
Online uptake is currently around 5% of the console market at large. That definitely strikes me as an enthusiast niche more than anything...
Wow, there's over 100+ million PS2/XBOX/GC consoles in the US? Someone tell Bach, Iwata and Hirai the good news! I'll concede that the XBL 1 million number isn't US only (although an overwhelming majority would come from US), but IIRC the 3+ million NA number IS US only. What's this mean? At least 4 million interested consumers in the United States out of a 40 or so million console base in the US. As jedimike said, not everyone who has a TV and cable (analagous to Xbox and broadband connection)subscribes to HBO. Yet you wouldn't say HBO is a failure, would you?
Is that clear enough for you, douchebag?
MightyHedgehog
Member
jarrod said:
There's never a guarantee that the userbase of one console will adopt the succeeding one. However, it will be about what people expect to be on the next system. Franchises. If you want the franchises that MGS offers, you'll get the next MS system...just like getting the next Nintendo and Sony systems because they will have Nintendo and Sony stuff. Backward compatibility is such an overrated feature, IMO. I don't base my new console purchase on playing old games and I'm certain that many, many others feel the same way... It's a nice feature or option... That said, it's not impossible for Xenon to be able to play the XBOX 1 games...it's just not clear at the moment.
Nope, in the US it's only around 2.2 million NAs sold (going by Sony's figures this past spring, SCEA was trumpeting that they'd managed 10% of their userbase). Worldwide the number jumped to 3 million, you remembered incorrectly. Asshole.DJ Demon J said:
So in the US, current consoles (PS2, XBox & GC) number about 45 million while online consoles number probably close to 3 million.
edit-I also wouldn't call HBO a failure (which, if you've actually read my posts, I haven't called Live either). But I also wouldn't say most of the television "userbase" really cares for it either.
DJ Demon J
Banned
jarrod said:Nope, in the US it's only around 2.2 million NAs sold (going by Sony's figures this past spring, SCEA was trumpeting that they'd managed 10% of their userbase). Worldwide the number jumped to 3 million, you remembered incorrectly. Asshole.
So in the US, current consoles (PS2, XBox & GC) number about 45 million while online consoles number probably close to 3 million.
edit-I also wouldn't call HBO a failure (which, if you've actually read my posts, I haven't called Live either). But I also wouldn't say most of the television "userbase" really cares for it either.
2.2 million NAs? Fine. I'll take your word for it, though I'd still like to see a posting from an SCEA official statement to that effect. Can we agree on at least 800k US XBL subscribers? 3 million consumers paying for the privilege of online (many of which also paying a broadband internet connection service fee), and Iwata claims consumers don't want online games? TOTAL BULLSHIT, if you haven't caught on yet, dipshit.
DJ Demon J said:
More #'s for you guys to argue over.
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/06/22/sony/
Sony has sold 100 million PlayStations since the console was released in Japan in 1994, and 70 million PlayStation 2 units since it was introduced in 1999. About 30 million PlayStation 2 units have been sold in the U.S., and about 10 percent of U.S. users have purchased network adapters that allow them to play games online.
They're using SCEA's press release numbers for consoles (which are shipped, not sold) and then the rough percentage SCEA gave out of NA penetration (10%) to get the number of Network Adapters? Flawed all the way around.DarienA said:More #'s for you guys to argue over.
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/06/22/sony/
Sony has sold 100 million PlayStations since the console was released in Japan in 1994, and 70 million PlayStation 2 units since it was introduced in 1999. About 30 million PlayStation 2 units have been sold in the U.S., and about 10 percent of U.S. users have purchased network adapters that allow them to play games online.
DarienA said:
Isn't it obvious? It's because that's how far they had to dig to find recognizable subscription services that would make Xbox Live look like it had a really fast adoption rate. I remember when HBO and AOL first came out. When HBO started, cable service was rare. I remember when a friend of mine showed me AOL when it started, it was pretty much a beefed up BBS with a GUI. Oh, and it was MACINTOSH ONLY.
Let's do the math. Xbox Live has been available since November 2002 according to the press release. So it's been 21 months. Multiply by three, since that's the factor Microsoft is boasting about, and therefore HBO and AOL took at least 63 months each to reach one million subscribers. That's over FIVE YEARS.
Wow, XBL got a million subscribers in well under five years. Amazing.
This is pretty much par for the course for Microsoft PR/FUD.
Kobun Heat
Member
OH MAN HOW DID I MISS THIS HILARITY!
You guys are letting Demon set the terms of the debate, which is never a good idea. You can get into a urination contest with him over exact numbers and percentages, but none of that is ever going to prove or disprove whether or not "consumers want" online games.
At what number would Demon agree with Iwata? Half a million? 100,000? Twelve? One? Zero? At what number would Jarrod become an Xbot? Two million? Three? It's irrelevant.
The question is, does it really matter what the userbase is, in figures or percentages, when the company in question is losing $2 for every $1 they make on the venture?
You guys are letting Demon set the terms of the debate, which is never a good idea. You can get into a urination contest with him over exact numbers and percentages, but none of that is ever going to prove or disprove whether or not "consumers want" online games.
At what number would Demon agree with Iwata? Half a million? 100,000? Twelve? One? Zero? At what number would Jarrod become an Xbot? Two million? Three? It's irrelevant.
The question is, does it really matter what the userbase is, in figures or percentages, when the company in question is losing $2 for every $1 they make on the venture?
Kobun Heat
Member
*sniffle*Sea Manky said:
I remember when we got the AOL TWO POINT OH discs in the mail. The big feature that they added was that it could access this new thing called the WORLD WIDE WEB.
Kobun Heat
Member
I remember downloading pirated versions of Commander Keen games off of BBSes.Wario64 said:
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
I remember when throwing around insults like "retarded" "Asshole" and the like and attacking other posters for their opinions was risking a ban...
.oh, wait....
(You have all been warned, now cut it out.)
Freeburn.
.oh, wait....
(You have all been warned, now cut it out.)
Freeburn.
Hellraizah
Member
What is truly incredible about that number is that 1 million suscribers means :
1 million people that :
have an Xbox
have a valid credit card number
pay for broadband internet access
wants to play games online
bought the Xbox Live kit (or paid it via credit card)
If we can't call that a success considering all the obstacles it has to face (people without broadband and/or credit cards), I don't know what it is.
Ignoring online play and saying it doesn't play an important role right now is exactly like saying 5 years ago that people with a computer at home didn't care about the internet. This market has exploded and so will online gaming in no time.
Microsoft knows this, and their Xbox Live service is not only successful because one million people are suscribing to it, it's successful because they already have one million people agreeing to pay for that service, and that will probably continue to pay when Xbox Live switches to Xenon. However, Sony may have more people with broadband adapters, but they didn't try to get people to pay right now, so how can they expect to be able to do it in the years to come. I remember seeing 20 000 persons every time I logged into SOCOM 2 back when it released. Now, let's say Sony started to charge for a service, let's see how many people will drop off, or better yet, ask Sega (who did this with Phantasy Star Online V. 2 on Dreamcast). At least, with Xbox Live, they can almost only go up in numbers.
1 million people that :
have an Xbox
have a valid credit card number
pay for broadband internet access
wants to play games online
bought the Xbox Live kit (or paid it via credit card)
If we can't call that a success considering all the obstacles it has to face (people without broadband and/or credit cards), I don't know what it is.
Ignoring online play and saying it doesn't play an important role right now is exactly like saying 5 years ago that people with a computer at home didn't care about the internet. This market has exploded and so will online gaming in no time.
Microsoft knows this, and their Xbox Live service is not only successful because one million people are suscribing to it, it's successful because they already have one million people agreeing to pay for that service, and that will probably continue to pay when Xbox Live switches to Xenon. However, Sony may have more people with broadband adapters, but they didn't try to get people to pay right now, so how can they expect to be able to do it in the years to come. I remember seeing 20 000 persons every time I logged into SOCOM 2 back when it released. Now, let's say Sony started to charge for a service, let's see how many people will drop off, or better yet, ask Sega (who did this with Phantasy Star Online V. 2 on Dreamcast). At least, with Xbox Live, they can almost only go up in numbers.
DJ Demon J
Banned
Wario64 said:
I'll do you one better, I remember using Promenade, the precusor to AOL.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Sorry for being off topic but DJ Demon J's new tag gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "We'll get 'em next year." But considering the year that the new consoles will launch as well as the next, next elections... shouldn't it be 2006?
You don't give up easily, DJ. I'll give you that.
You don't give up easily, DJ. I'll give you that.
DJ Demon J
Banned
DarienA said:
Yep, that fact right there makes PS2 online better than Xbox Live, right Darien? After all, PS2 only accepts the creme de la creme with real Visas and Mastercards. :rolleyes
DJ Demon J
Banned
JC10001 said:
Neither does the Horde, and thus the battle rages.
I wanted 2004, but I was given 2008. *shrug* I'm not complaining, the point still stands.
DJ Demon J said:
DJ are you this dumb in real life?? What the hell kind of jump is that to make? The previous poster made it seem like having all of these people with credit card was some type of big deal... I was simply pointing out that anybody can have a debit card and use that to pay for their online service.
Hellraizah
Member
Not in Canada at least. I wasn't aware of this, I heard this before, but I think it takes a special debit card, am I right ?DarienA said:
Anyways, the point is mostly that people agrees to pay for the service, so people will come into Xenon expecting to pay for the same (upgraded) service. If Sony takes that strategy for PS3, trying to build a network à la Xbox Live, they will meet with the usual rants about how they're trying to screw people over with paying services for something that was free before and should be, in the mind of most users.
Almost every bank in the US gives it's customers with checking accounts a Visa or Mastercard debit card, so no it's not really considered special anymore. When they first came out it was a rare thing... but not these days.Hellraizah said:
Very possible. Then again it's also possible that they'll seek to push that they've built so many additional features in to the service(in essence making it more XBL-like), that people won't be surprise that they'll have to pay for it. It's definitely going to be interesting in seeing how they try to make this transition.
Hellraizah
Member
How does it works ??? Do you have a credit margin on these cards ???DarienA said:
Hellraizah said:
The Visa/Mastercard debit card is linked to your checking account... the money usually comes out of your account 1-2 days after you make the purchase so the credit margin is actually however much you have in your checking account.
Hellraizah
Member
Heeeeeee, ok, so basically, you have as much "credit" as what you have in your bank account right now ???? Is there any advantages of that over a normal debit card ?DarienA said:
DJ Demon J
Banned
DarienA said:
Pretend all you want Darien; why point that out if not to rag on XBL in a subtle way? Everyone on GAF has an agenda, at least I'm up front about mine.
DJ Demon J said:
Yes I'm pretending and you oh great Einstein have figure me out. :rolleyes You are a sad paranoid little person... My agenda is calling people out when they make themselves look like idiots... you however make it too easy.
Well I'm not sure when you phrase it like that... to my knowledge there is no such thing as a non-Visa/Mastercard debit card issued from US banks... you either get an ATM card or you get a Visa/Mastercard debit card... the benefit of the logo'd card over the ATM card is that because it's Visa/Mastercard you can pretty much use it at any store that accepts regular Visa/Mastercard credit cards.Hellraizah said:
DJ Demon J
Banned
jarrod said:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/07/07/news_6102100.html
In an interview with the Japan Economic Foundation's magazine, Japan Spotlight, the famously outspoken Iwata repeated his oft-quoted assertion that "customers do not want online games." He told the Spotlight, "At the moment, most customers do not wish to pay the extra money for connection to the Internet, and for some customers, connection procedures to the Internet are still not easy."
Wario64 said:
From AOL A History:
October 2, 1989 AppleLink changes name to America Online a service offered through Quantum.
February1991 DOS version of AOL is launched.
Nyah, nyah.
But this tangent is pretty much irrelevant to my point, which is that Microsoft chose these services for their comparison because they took so very long to reach one million subscribers, which makes XBL look good. I mean really. FIVE YEARS.
Let's take a close look at something...DJ Demon J said:
"At the moment, most customers do not wish to pay the extra money for connection to the Internet, and for some customers, connection procedures to the Internet are still not easy."
...you quoted it yourself, so clearly "customers do not want online games" is not the entirety of Iwata's message (rather at large they don't want to pay for online games and have connection difficulties). Wouldn't you agree?
DJ Demon J
Banned
DarienA said:
So, let me get this straight Darien.
Hellraizah said:
You think that post makes Hellraizah look like an idiot so it's your agenda to call him out?
Does the part "have a valid credit card number" make the entire statement of Hellraizah's idiotic? Does it really mean anything different for the desire of the consumers to pay for the privilege of online gaming?
Come on, give me a break. Hellraizah gave you an inch, you're trying to take a mile.
DJ Demon J
Banned
jarrod said:
The bolded statement corroborates with Iwata's "customers do not want online games" statement. His statement, and Nintendo's position--AND HERE COMES THE POINT SO PAY CLOSE ATTENTION--is "we're not ready to do online gaming yet, so let's poo-poo the idea publicly, decry XBL and PS2 as money-losing ventures, claim the market doesn't want online games, and push our brand as a long-standing innovator so we can make profits from re-releases of old titles and 'connectivity.'"
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