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[Z O N E]

It's there on both, however MUCH more visible on PS5 Pro. I could see the shimmering on the PS5 Pro at normal speed and it was very obvious. However, with the normal PS5, I barely made out the one on the stairs at normal speed and would only be able to see the shimmering at normal speed. This is just this section of the video, but I saw many other areas too where the PS5 Pro one was easily seen whilst PS5 shimmering was not there.

Definitely something going on with the PS5 to cause this and honestly, it's annoyingly bad, cause it's very obvious.

 

[Three]

I'm not sure what you are talking about but issues as clear as day:

You honestly don't know what I'm talking about? Specular noise comes from light sources. Look at where the door is on your circled images. Look at where the vent with the indirect specular is, look at where the 'P1' on the wall is:

Why are all your images zoomed out from where you're comparing specular?

 

[Bojji]

You honestly don't know what I'm talking about? Specular noise comes from light sources. Look at where the door is on your circled images. Look at where the vent with the indirect specular is, look at where the 'P1' on the wall is. Why are all your images zoomed out from where you're comparing specular?

All all captured from full screen 4k video. You may be right that higher resolution shows ssr/specular noise more on Pro, or it could be something different entirely.

 

[owandeseis]

Guess it's a mix, on Black Ops 6 for example, while 60 FPS mode looks shit in some surfaces, the 120 FPS mode doesn't have that problem (this mode isn't using PSSR).

But yeah, there must be something wrong with the PS5 Pro with the denoising in some surfaces with the lightning, specially in darker zones and in water surfaces with RT (hogwarts or SH2 in this case)

 

[Three]

All all captured from full screen 4k video.

I give up. Like a brick wall.

 

[Three]

Definitely something going on with the PS5 to cause this and honestly, it's annoyingly bad, cause it's very obvious.

It's the game. The only reason you're not seeing it as much on the regular PS5 vs Pro is that the pro version is likely rendering that non-enhanced game at a higher DRS so resolves the noisy specular better.

 

[cireza]

You are right Kangx, there is a difference:

Was this game updated with PSSR or not? Isn't MW3 part of big COD package as one application?

If this isn't PSSR then it's probably some API issue or something.

Looking at the second screen, the issue really is all over the place, not only in the circle. What a fucking joke lol.

 

[Kangx]

I'm not sure what you are talking about but issues as clear as day:

YOU misunderstood me and I kinda did the same. Yea, I was the one who created this thread so I noticed these issue.

Since you are at it, can you grab the screen shot that show aliasing on the edge of entrance on the pro at 1:30 when he is shooting before he go upstairs?

 

[Bojji]

I give up. Like a brick wall.

See the videos yourself.

Why zommed it or out? Ask the people that captured those videos...

YOU misunderstood me and I kinda did the same. Yea, I was the one who created this thread so I noticed these issue.

Since you are at it, can you grab the screen shot that show aliasing on the edge of entrance on the pro at 1:30 when he is shooting before he go upstairs?

Are you talking about this?

This looks like low res volumetrics or something. Other than that I guess we are looking at different issues in those videos, haha.

 

[Three]

See the videos yourself.

Why zommed it or out? Ask the people that captured those videos...

Again which one is more closer to the light source? Why are you doing this dumb shit? To compare specular noise on a surface what you need to do is get the same angle of reflection from the surface from the light source at the same distance. That's how you compare specular. It's likely that you will resolve more with a higher res too.

 

[Bojji]

Again which one is more closer to the light source? Why are you doing this dumb shit? To compare specular noise on a surface what you need to do is get the same angle of reflection from the surface from the light source at the same distance. That's how you compare specular. It's likely that you will resolve more with a higher res too.

Why closer? Videos are not 1:1. Do better comparison yourself.

This also looks much worse in motion.

 

[yogaflame]

 

[Kangx]

See the videos yourself.

Why zommed it or out? Ask the people that captured those videos...



Are you talking about this?

This looks like low res volumetrics or something. Other than that I guess we are looking at different issues in those videos, haha.

No you got it. Look at the verticle edge to the right of P1 where you circle the horizontal edge. It is perpendicular on the left side to the top edge you have circled.

It is more visible in motion but yea it clearly aliasing/jagged edge.

 

[Three]

Why closer? Videos are not 1:1.

Because when you're closer a surface reflection resolves better. Question is though, why are your images always closer and at worse BRDF angles on the Pro?

 

[sankt-Antonio]

You are right Kangx, there is a difference:

Was this game updated with PSSR or not? Isn't MW3 part of big COD package as one application?

If this isn't PSSR then it's probably some API issue or something.

Isn't one looking though a shield? And its not the same place.

 

[Spukc]

A lot of people are reporting numerous games looking worse on PS5 Pro. CoD, SW Outlaws and RDR2 being some examples. Upscaling algorithms are by nature prone to create weird artifacts and sometimes kill finer detail.

That will be 1000€ minus a disc drive, thank you very much.

cod does not look fucking worse on the pro

Hyperbola extremola

 

[cireza]

This is probably an hidden homage the PS2.

 

[Life Diff]

Shimmering is an issue in certain engines though, especially UE5. Sadly can't play my pro at the moment as I got the green screen of death

 

[Bojji]

Because when you're closer a surface reflection resolves better. Question is though, why are your images always closer and at worse BRDF angles on the Pro?

No one stops you from doing better comparison. It's not my fault that videos are different.

 

[Vick]

I've seen these white sharp dots in re4 remake too. On water reflections

That would be ray tracing as RE4 water reflections are RT, do you remember where you've seen those dots precisely?
RE4 RT effects are not the new generation of RE Engine RT seen in Dead Rising, but I've found them to look clean and stable, surely in comparison to what they were in RE7 for example.
I believe you might be referring to this (time-stamped)?



Just to avoid confusion, Thread is about Pro having issues not found on base PS5. Everything concerning RE4R running properly on Resolution Mode with RT and Hair Strands look and run better than it does on base PS5.

P.S. It's interesting how RE4 RT reflections have been updated tremendously from version 1.00, they look awful on launch version.

cod does not look fucking worse on the pro

Neither does the RDR2 he mentioned, there was even a Thread about it..

Review - PS5 Pro | Red Dead Redemption 2 v1.00 Resolution Bump Confirmed.

Edit: If any mod comes through can you change the title to "Clarity" Bump Confirmed rather than Resolution. As I have no way to actually verify if the resolution has been increased. I'm suspecting that it has not, but because I tested this game with PS4 game enhancement feature turned on, I...

www.neogaf.com

YOU misunderstood me and I kinda did the same. Yea, I was the one who created this thread so I noticed these issue.

Your mistake was to assume this Thread, created based on a MW3 video, on a premise no official channel/comparison/DF shared, was going to provide interesting and thoughtful analysis on those handful of games having issues (like Silent Hill 2 or, probably MW3) instead of being a playground for certain people who don't own the machine that are now trolling or pretending/assuming the console runs games worse.

 

[rofif]

That would be ray tracing as RE4 water reflections are RT, do you remember where you've seen those dots precisely?
RE4 RT effects are not the new generation of RE Engine RT seen in Dead Rising, but I've found them to look clean and stable, surely in comparison to what they were in RE7 for example.
I believe you might be referring to this (time-stamped)?



Just to avoid confusion, Thread is about Pro having issues not found on base PS5. Everything concerning RE4R running properly on Resolution Mode with RT and Hair Strands look and run better than it does on base PS5.

P.S. It's interesting how RE4 RT reflections have been updated tremendously from version 1.00, they look awful on launch version.


Neither does the RDR2 he mentioned, there was even a Thread about it..

Review - PS5 Pro | Red Dead Redemption 2 v1.00 Resolution Bump Confirmed.

Edit: If any mod comes through can you change the title to "Clarity" Bump Confirmed rather than Resolution. As I have no way to actually verify if the resolution has been increased. I'm suspecting that it has not, but because I tested this game with PS4 game enhancement feature turned on, I...

www.neogaf.com

Your mistake was to assume this Thread, created based on a MW3 video, on a premise no official channel/comparison/DF shared, was going to provide interesting and thoughtful analysis on those handful of games having issues (like Silent Hill 2 or, probably MW3) instead of being a playground for certain people who don't own the machine that are now trolling or pretending/assuming the console runs games worse.

In the swamp where you collect vipers for the merchant. Where you get boat fuel.

 

[ap_puff]

Maybe that would explain the shimmering I saw in FF7 Rebirth even in quality (non-Pro) mode.

 

[Vick]

In the swamp where you collect vipers for the merchant. Where you get boat fuel.

Yeah I knew it, if you open the video I've time-stamped that's the exact spot I've linked.

Those are sub-pixel specular highlights of the wet algae growing the surface. They are present on every version, it's just how Capcom rendered that effect.

 

[rofif]

Yeah I knew it, if you open the video I've time-stamped that's the exact spot I've linked.

Those are sub-pixel specular highlights of the wet algae growing the surface. They are present on every version, it's just how Capcom rendered that effect.

Not exactly. Not the algae. Just light reflection. But it's been few days ago and I don't have a save back there.
the algae looks bad too anyway

 

[owandeseis]

Maybe this? white dots can be seen on the right side, and a lot of shimmering on the left one, kinda similar to what's seen Hogwarts, SH2 or AW2, seems like the darker the place is, the more visible it is (obviously i guess xd)

 

[Vick]

Not exactly. Not the algae. Just light reflection. But it's been few days ago and I don't have a save back there.
the algae looks bad too anyway

Just went there, not seeing anything aside from the algae highlights. There is a closer thing fitting your description in the main lake, being just normal water specular highlights not done too well, but nothing about reflections.

Is this issue absent on regular PS5, or other versions of the game?

Edit:

Just checked on base PS5 as well to be sure, those water highlights are 100% there.

 

[Luipadre]

I had a feeling that its some kind of driver issues like a gfx driver on PC. Too many games have similar issues right now. Hopefully its just a firmware fix from sony and its coming in the near future. They must be aware of these issues right?

 

[Luipadre]

You are right Kangx, there is a difference:

Was this game updated with PSSR or not? Isn't MW3 part of big COD package as one application?

If this isn't PSSR then it's probably some API issue or something.

This is exactly the same issue Silent Hill 2 has. Shimmering on metal surfaces and the awful reflection shimmering. It must be a system software issue. We need to get sonys attention on this ASAP

 

[XXL]

It's official.

You guys have become PC gamers.

Next thing you know, you'll be playing games about a lesbian and her puppy because it was 90% off.

 

[Mr Moose]

And it’s very possible that is is using pssr. The black ops6 pro patch was was there since launch and no one knew if you turn on the 120hz mode all of the speckles disappear

Are you talking about the little dot shit on guns and stuff?

I'm not sure what you are talking about but issues as clear as day:

That's a game issue, it's done this in my CoD for years and I don't have a Pro. It does it on the ground/guns and other stuff. Not sure if it's shading or reflections.

I'm surprised people have only just noticed it.

 

[Xtib81]

I didn't even know what shimmering was prior to this gen but fukcing hell it's in every game now it seems.

 

[Vick]

Maybe this? white dots can be seen on the right side, and a lot of shimmering on the left one, kinda similar to what's seen Hogwarts, SH2 or AW2, seems like the darker the place is, the more visible it is (obviously i guess xd)

You mean those white spots on water? Those are specular highlights, or at least an attempt at rendering them.

They are 100% present on base PS5 and looking even worse in motion, I've just personally checked. Not seeing the "lot of shimmering" that isn't the usual RE Engine RT Reflections seen on every platform/hardware before Dead Rising Deluxe new RT tech.

It's official.

You guys have become PC gamers.

Well if that's really the case, even if just for a handful of games, it is 100% worth investigating.

Too many games have similar issues right now. Hopefully its just a firmware fix from sony and its coming in the near future. They must be aware of these issues right?

I am only aware of Silent Hill 2 looking worse unpatched, and now apparently MW3.

Could you please tell me what other games have issues?
Issues that could be caused by the system, and not devs choices when patching games like with Alan Wake 2 for instance.

 

[welshrat]

Has anyone posted on treyarch forums so that they are aware. I am pretty sure this can be fixed easily but the devs need to know about it.

 

[FUBARx89]

Guess it's a mix, on Black Ops 6 for example, while 60 FPS mode looks shit in some surfaces, the 120 FPS mode doesn't have that problem (this mode isn't using PSSR).

But yeah, there must be something wrong with the PS5 Pro with the denoising in some surfaces with the lightning, specially in darker zones and in water surfaces with RT (hogwarts or SH2 in this case)

Afaik SH2 the water surfaces look like crap because they're using software raytracing in UE5 on PS5. I can't see them changing that on Pro either.

With any luck they'll fix the broken image quality of it, but they've stayed quiet and not admitted its even a problem or pro patched. So it's anyone's guess.

 

[Vick]

That's a game issue

Sums up the entire Thread so far.

Afaik SH2 the water surfaces look like crap because they're using software raytracing in UE5 on PS5. I can't see them changing that on Pro either.

But those reflections do look worse on Pro, and AO also produces artifacts not present on base PS5.
Silent Hill 2 is one of those games that does in fact indeed look worse on Pro, however there's also evidence of the fact it's not just the base PS5 code running on Pro as the GI settings are different. It appears to be just a broken Pro support at the moment, so not related to the Thread.

 

[Three]

No one stops you from doing better comparison. It's not my fault that videos are different.

You're telling me there wasn't a point in the vid where the regular PS5 was closer and at a worse angle to a reflecting light source? Always the pro version closer and at bad incident angles in your shots?
Hard to believe when the regular PS5 has a jarring one of that right at the beginning of the video.

PS5 regular:

PS5 Pro:

Your totally nonscientific approach to this is not surprising though, "All 4k video captures" like that's what I was discussing. Hope you understand how specular reflections and specular noise works now though.

Z O N E already did a better one than you too.

If the incident reflection from the light on the top of the stairs were lined up exactly in these two shots you would see more specular noise from the PS5 regular aswell.

 

[Vick]

Strange that the only way you understand what I've been saying to you is when the Pro ends up with the better result and you have to dispute it somehow.

I don't have COD but I've played many games on the Pro and no, there's nothing system related.

I'm pretty sure if there really was we would have been reading about it for months already.

The simple notion of DF not coming across the issue after their countless hours of comparisons/analysis should be telling enough.

 

[Bojji]

You're telling me there wasn't a point in the vid where the regular PS5 was closer and at a worse angle to a reflecting light source? Always the pro version closer and at bad incident angles in your shots?
Hard to believe when the regular PS5 has a jarring one of that right at the beginning of the video.

PS5 regular:

PS5 Pro:

Your totally nonscientific approach to this is not surprising though, "All 4k video captures" like that's what I was discussing. Hope you understand how specular reflections and specular noise works now though.

Z O N E already did a better one than you too.


If the incident reflection from the light on the top of the stairs were lined up exactly in these two shots you would see more specular noise from the PS5 regular aswell.

Your comparison is far from 1:1, different camera position etc.

Look to the right on Z O N E pictures, see how ceiling over the light looks.

 

[Elios83]

I don't have COD but I've played many games on the Pro and no, there's nothing system related.

The current situation is the opposite, results are in general, heavily dependent on the implementation, the game engine and the efforts developers put in it.
There are some fantastic implementations (FF7, Stellar Blade, the Insomniac, Naughty Dog, Horizon games), there are cases where developers tried but didn't get impressive results with their choices (Alan Wake 2) and cases where something is broken or just doesn't work well so it shouldn’t have been approved (Silent Hill 2).
It's early days, third party developers clearly didn't have enough time for their patches.
Also AI-based tech is not magic, it's a trade off between an image that "looks" sharp vs other artifacts. Things are bound to improve here as well with further training.

 

[Three]

Your comparison is far from 1:1, different camera position etc.

Look to the right on Z O N E pictures, see how ceiling over the light looks.

Strange that the only way you understand what I've been saying to you is when the Pro ends up with the better result and you have to dispute it somehow.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Maybe the pro has come in a little hot on the software side to hit the holiday sales period. It seems odd based on the timelines of what we have and the rumours of it being ready for over a year.

Something is off and hopefully a firmware update or something can fix it.

Last few days have been rough for the pro with the Alan wake 2 DF etc.

I know the hardware was done last year but launch was put on hold so one could only assume it was to let software mature and seems like it still needs work.

I keep saying us early adopters are beta testing for PS6

Edit - I don’t think it’s system related but something with certain games, let’s wait and see what games look like being built around this machine

 

[Little Chicken]

So many concerning things about PS5 Pro

 

[Bojji]

Strange that the only way you understand what I've been saying to you is when the Pro ends up with the better result and you have to dispute it somehow.

When you watch video pro has way more issues and shimmering in motion. This is reality of those 2 videos, if you say otherwise you are blind.

We will know more when (or if) someone will make proper comparison.

 

[owandeseis]

Your comparison is far from 1:1, different camera position etc.

Look to the right on Z O N E pictures, see how ceiling over the light looks.

Here's a 1:1 comparison, for Black Ops 6 tho, in this case it uses PSSR while on the MW3 situation it's kinda unknown.

In this video base PS5 version isn't perfect either, but the shimmer/flicker is more noticeable on the Pro version too

 

[Hookshot]

Luckily for Sony it's the right time of year to get suckers to buy $700 snow globes.

 

[Mr Moose]

So many concerning things about PS5 Pro

It's nothing to do with the PS5 Pro in this case, it's just Call of Duty, it's happened for a while and people are now just seeing it (I noticed it years ago).

 

[Elios83]

So many concerning things about PS5 Pro

From many concerned people, many of them wrong or misleading, almost like in 2020 for the PS5 when someone tried a full scale FUD campaign

Here's a 1:1 comparison, for Black Ops 6 tho, in this case it uses PSSR while on the MW3 situation it's kinda unknown.

In this video base PS5 version isn't perfect either, but the shimmer/flicker is more noticeable on the Pro version too

OP is claiming it's system wide not due to PSSR. You're saying it uses PSSR.
It's not even clear what people are comparing.
That PSSR resolves more some reflection shimmering that is already there in this game because it believes it's a detail and not an artifact is a possibility (if I had the game I could check but I'm not into COD) but then you also have to consider the benefits that are being brought to the table overall and consider that AI upscaling is not magic.

 

[Vick]

Here's a 1:1 comparison, for Black Ops 6 tho, in this case it uses PSSR while on the MW3 situation it's kinda unknown.

In this video base PS5 version isn't perfect either, but the shimmer/flicker is more noticeable on the Pro version too

That is extremely noticeable, this is indeed a 100% case of issues on Pro.

Hard to say it's system related, but it's yet another CoD game. Should be relevant.

K Kangx
Bet seeing X folks circlejerking on a couple of games having issues on this machine somehow wasn't on your Bingo card.

Just received this PM, lol.

 

[Mr Moose]

CoD Vanguard (Series X)

Like I said, CoD issue.

 

[Three]

OP is claiming it's system wide not due to PSSR. You're saying it uses PSSR.
It's not even clear what people are comparing.
That PSSR resolves more some reflection shimmering that is already there in this game because it believes it's a detail and not an artifact is a possibility (if I had the game I could check but I'm not into COD) but then you also have to consider the benefits that are being brought to the table overall and consider that AI upscaling is not magic.

The shimmering is specular noise which is a type of aliasing that increases with higher resolution with a given sample size. A lot of devs in games rely on Temporal AA to fix this issue which gets rid of sharpness and introduces ghosting/smearing but removes most glints. What they've done in BO6 is shit though. I'm not sure they've done anything to address specular noise. If I had to guess they've relied on PSSR to just fix it maybe where TAA did before.