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[ArtHands]

Yoshida: I Played The Last of Us Online And It Was Great

Exec suggests teams aren't being forced to make live service

www.pushsquare.com

Yoshida continued that, to his knowledge, no first-party studio has been forced to make live service games. He noted that sometimes teams see the direction the company is heading, and pitch their titles accordingly.


“From my experience, when studios see the company has a big initiative, [they realise] riding on that gives them a better chance of getting a project approved and supported,” he explained. “It’s not like [current PS Studios boss Hermen Hulst] is telling teams they need to make live service games, it’s likely mutual.”

 

[Punished Miku]

A distinction without a difference. "Teams see the direction the company is heading."

I guess they just self-censor their own pitches? Okay I guess.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

he was "forced" to go indie tho

 

[Killjoy-NL]

A distinction without a difference. "Teams see the direction the company is heading."

I guess they just self-censor their own pitches? Okay I guess.

Teams look at the market and adapt.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

he was "forced" to go indie tho

He wasn't. Read the interview.

 

[Punished Miku]

Teams look at the market and adapt.

Could be the case, for sure. I always assume that the creatives are just following whatever artistic endeavor they have in mind, but many of them might be more business minded than I realize.

 

[Dorago]

If those studio heads all got on a Zoom and convinced themselves they could pivot from semi open world single player movie games to full time live services because they were so smart and talented I'm going to laugh.

Top down directives would be excusable, a bottom up lemming rush isn't.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Could be the case, for sure. I always assume that the creatives are just following whatever artistic endeavor they have in mind, but many of them might be more business minded than I realize.

Logic would realize it's both.

 

[Punished Miku]

Logic would realize it's both.

Every single team just thought it was logical to do a GAAS at once and have the majority of them flame out before even completing development. Okay.

 

[onQ123]

Shu is flipping Gaf upside down this morning

 

[Varteras]

Shu is flipping Gaf upside down this morning

Narratives in shambles. Copium poisoning imminent. Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria!

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Every single team just thought it was logical to do a GAAS at once and have the majority of them flame out before even completing development. Okay.

Some people also thought the character designs for Concord were amazing.

You know, making the game they really wanted to make.

 

[Humdinger]

Yeah, "forced" is the wrong word. Incentivized, guided, coaxed, persuaded ... or, just choosing your project based on what the company wants. It's not as overtly controlling as "You will make this game whether you like it or not!" It's a more subtle form of "control," if you want to call it that, based on rewards and punishment.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Shu is flipping Gaf upside down this morning

Narratives in shambles. Copium poisoning imminent. Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria!

In a week, a few days, they'll just pretend as if this interview never happened.

 

[adamsapple]

So ... 10 or 12 of them just decided on a group call that they'll all start working on GaaS projects in the same window?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

So ... 10 or 12 of them just decided on a group call that they'll all start working on GaaS projects in the same window?

Only half of those games were even organically native to SIE...

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

He wasn't. Read the interview.

GamesBeat: Did you face any personal challenges handing some of the biggest developers over for others to deal with? And then you went to focus on the smallest game companies.

Yoshida: Moving from first-party to indies? Well, I had no choice. When Jim asked me to do the indie job, the choice was to do that or leave the company. But I felt very strongly about the state of PlayStation and indies. I really wanted to do this. I believed I could do something unique for that purpose. That was the bigger change for me personally, moving from first-party to indies, than leaving the company this year. I’m very lucky that the indie community, the publishers and developers I work closely with–they believed that they could use my help. I became an adviser for some of these companies. I’m continuing to work with some of the indie publishers and developers I respect. The transition out of Sony to becoming an independent adviser is less of a change than moving out of first-party.

https://venturebeat.com/games/shuhe...-31-years-at-sony-playstation-exit-interview/

Admittedly I am not sure how he meant "the choice was to do that or leave the company" as in did Ryan give me only those 2 choices or was those his personal choices

 

[HogIsland]

Shu is flipping Gaf upside down this morning

posters who live upside down are getting flipped right-side up (briefly)

 

[Killjoy-NL]

So ... 10 or 12 of them just decided on a group call that they'll all start working on GaaS projects in the same window?

Is that what you and the rest of team green are used to?

Sounds a lot like projection.

 

[Horseganador]

Wouldn't it be better to create a thread with Yoshida's statements and not have so many on the front page?

 

[FoxMcChief]

My mother told me as a teenager that if I didn’t like her rules, that I knew where the front door was. I was never “forced” to follow her rules.

Just like I’m sure these devs weren’t forced.

 

[Ovek]

 

[Varteras]

Wouldn't it be better to create a thread with Yoshida's statements and not have so many on the front page?

 

[onQ123]

So ... 10 or 12 of them just decided on a group call that they'll all start working on GaaS projects in the same window?

Have you seen Fortnite?

 

[Zacfoldor]

Forced? Probably not.

Encouraged? ...well.....

 

[adamsapple]

Is that what you and the rest of team green are used to?

Sounds a lot like projection.

Only half of those games were even organically native to SIE...

'Being organic' means little in context, SIE was promoting the "10+" Live Service Projects directly, they had their mittens in all of them one way or the other.

Sony, with Bungie’s help, to launch ‘more than 10 live-service games’ by 2026

PlayStation will expand its online multiplayer reach well beyond Destiny

www.polygon.com

 

[Killjoy-NL]

GamesBeat: Did you face any personal challenges handing some of the biggest developers over for others to deal with? And then you went to focus on the smallest game companies.

Yoshida: Moving from first-party to indies? Well, I had no choice. When Jim asked me to do the indie job, the choice was to do that or leave the company. But I felt very strongly about the state of PlayStation and indies. I really wanted to do this. I believed I could do something unique for that purpose. That was the bigger change for me personally, moving from first-party to indies, than leaving the company this year. I’m very lucky that the indie community, the publishers and developers I work closely with–they believed that they could use my help. I became an adviser for some of these companies. I’m continuing to work with some of the indie publishers and developers I respect. The transition out of Sony to becoming an independent adviser is less of a change than moving out of first-party.

https://venturebeat.com/games/shuhe...-31-years-at-sony-playstation-exit-interview/

Admittedly I am not sure how he meant "the choice was to do that or leave the company" as in did Ryan give me only those 2 choices or was those his personal choices

You too left out the part right before that, which offers context.

From that other thread about Shu supposedly being 'forced':

I never said Ryan and Hulst shouldn't take responsibility for their actions. Like the massive flop that was Concord was entirely on them.

But what's funny is that after reading the actual interview, OP left out a crucial part that put context to this situation, that's right before the part OP quoted:
"When I got the job, I told Jim that I didn’t want to create a department. There were enough verticals in the company. Coordinating a department is hard already. I didn’t want to create another vertical. I worked through the existing organization. My personal goal, when I started the indie job, was to make my position obsolete. The company would be doing so well that there was no need for someone like me to tell everyone that this was important. I feel like we’ve achieved that pretty well. There’s still a lot we can do, but people are working on it. You had the combination of Jim leaving and Nishino and Hermen stepping up, and I felt good about the state of our support for indies. I decided to leave."

Ryan didn't seem to have forced Yoshida to do anything.

Edit:

There is this part before that as well:
"Yoshida: Well, I haven’t retired. I left the company. Jim Ryan was the last leader of our generation. Ken Kutaragi, Kaz Hirai, Andrew House, Shawn Layden, myself, we were all the same group from the PS1 days. We handed down to the next generation of management, like Hideaki Nishino and Hermen Hulst. For the last five years my responsibility was to promote indie games inside and outside of PlayStation. I wanted to communicate, especially to new people joining PlayStation, how important it is to support indie games. They create the future. Externally I was communicating to indie developers and publishers that we wanted to make things better for them. Bit by bit, we’ve been able to improve our systems, our store functions, our communication.

A few years back, one of the reasons I got that job from Jim–we’d been criticized by the indie community. They said that PlayStation doesn’t care about indies. You don’t hear that kind of criticism anymore. "

 

[Elginer]

“To his knowledge” And you can’t have me believe they all thought at the same time
Let’s just chase gaas all as some group think.

 

[namenotfound]

He noted that sometimes teams see the direction the company is heading, and pitch their titles accordingly

It's the implication out there on a boat in the middle of the sea

 

[adamsapple]

Have you seen Fortnite?

Yes, I too love money.

And I completely understand the push for GaaS titles. But they missed the window to capitalize on them by a few years. This shit would have done amazing for them in the mid 2010's.

 

[onQ123]

Yes, I too love money.

And I completely understand the push for GaaS titles. But they missed the window to capitalize on them by a few years. This shit would have done amazing for them in the mid 2010's.

The market gets read wrong every generation then they have to adjust.

 

[Fabieter]

Yea I can imagine Bluepoint was happy to do a god of war gaas game

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

Just like he "wasn't forced out of the company", I'm sure.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Yea I can imagine Bluepoint was happy to do a god of war gaas game

 

[Fabieter]

Yes, I too love money.

And I completely understand the push for GaaS titles. But they missed the window to capitalize on them by a few years. This shit would have done amazing for them in the mid 2010's.

Its also possible nowadays but it has to be really special.

Ms is alot better with this kinda stuff. Their continues support for some of their games showed that quite a bit.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

'Being organic' means little in context, SIE was promoting the "10+" Live Service Projects directly, they had their mittens in all of them one way or the other.

Organic is a key word here for a reason. You're trying to fight a console war so nuance is lost on you, but the reason why organic is important is because not every studio simply started making live service games.

You use the number 12 to hyperbolize efforts and conflate two things.

Internal studios being forced or encouraged to do something and external studios being invested in. So there wouldn't be this group call with 10-12 studios. Sony sought out studios working on live service games and some internal studios were attempting live service games.

Why does that matter? There are two ways of looking at this.

From a gamers standpoint: If you like single player games, what was lost in this? And the real truth is very little.

From an ecosystem standpoint: Sony took a gamble on live service, which has almost certainly been profitable, but inconsistent. Helldivers 2 is a massive hit. One of the biggest in the companies history. Destiny 2 continues to be a major game. GT7 and MLB the Show are hits. Sony's more profitable now than they've ever been.

So who is upset and why? Why is a known xbox fanboy focused on Sony's live service push? Obviously because you're console war obsessed and think the failure of Concord and some canceled games brings Sony down a notch and by extension Sony fanboys you're in "competition" with.

 

[PurePlatinum]

These teams weren't forced to make live-service but their single-player pitches wouldn't have been approved. Shu is being tricky with the words here.

 

[Fabieter]

So who is upset and why? Why is a known xbox fanboy focused on Sony's live service push? Obviously because you're console war obsessed and think the failure of Concord and some canceled games brings Sony down a notch and by extension Sony fanboys you're in "competition" with

He might have preferred some playstation exclusives instead of alot of cancelled games which went nowhere. Years of work went to shit which isn't great for any gamer or the devs behind the games.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

You too left out the part right before that, which offers context.

From that other thread about Shu supposedly being 'forced':

That's why I say I don't know exactly how he meant it and maybe my brain hasn't spun up enough yet from getting up earlier than usual but still not clearly defined for me, a lot of nuances there

 

[Mibu no ookami]

He might have preferred some playstation exclusives instead of alot of cancelled games which went nowhere. Years of work went to shit which isn't great for any gamer or the devs behind the games.

Again, most of the canceled projects were external to SIE. They never would have existed in the first place.

Naughty Dog lost 2-3 years and we've lost a remake from Bluepoint, and Bend Studio hasn't been a premiere PlayStation dev since the 989 days.

What's actually been lost? It's overstated and it's obvious why it's being done.

 

[adamsapple]

Organic is a key word here for a reason. You're trying to fight a console war so nuance is lost on you

And this is where I stopped, couldn't be bothered to read past it.

Citing Sony's own promotion of the dozen or so GaaS games they were either developing or publishing is not 'console war'.

You've gone off the deep-end my boy. And it's *me* saying that.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

“To his knowledge” And you can’t have me believe they all thought at the same time
Let’s just chase gaas all as some group think.

All...except Team Asobi, Housemarque, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Sony Santa Monica, Media Molecule, Bluepoint, etc... guess they all missed the memo.

 

[Fake]

Shocker. Playstation western division are assholes.

 

[Topher]

“It’s not like [current PS Studios boss Hermen Hulst] is telling teams they need to make live service games, it’s likely mutual.”

Speculation

 

[Fabieter]

Again, most of the canceled projects were external to SIE. They never would have existed in the first place.

Naughty Dog lost 2-3 years and we've lost a remake from Bluepoint, and Bend Studio hasn't been a premiere PlayStation dev since the 989 days.

What's actually been lost? It's overstated and it's obvious why it's being done.

It's budget allocated to gaas games which could have been budget allocated to sp games.

Some of their internal studios were closed because of the gaas focus . Bends last game sold like 10m copies. It was their first console release after 10 years. I would rate bend over GG any day. Holly shit dissmissing bend and Blutpoint like that to defend their shitty mangement.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Shocker. Playstation western division are assholes.

Thanks for the input, Jeff.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It's budget allocated to gaas games which could have been budget allocated to sp games.

Some of their internal studios were closed because of the gaas focus . Bends last game sold like 10m copies. It was their first console release after 10 years. I would rate bend over GG any day. Holly shit dissmissing bend and Blutpoint like that to defend their shitty mangement.

Only in your mind, but in reality that's not how it works. Sony Group approves SIE to spend additional budget on new avenues of business, not doubling down on single player games with a high risk profile and low return.

Sony wasn't going to double down on single player games and simply start competing with themselves more. It's entirely impractical.

What internal studio was closed down because of GaaS focus? Name one?

The idea that you would rate Bend over GG is again evidence that you're not in touch with reality. Day's Gone sold at a super low unit price especially compared to Horizon. Add in Killzone and GG is way ahead of Bend. It's not close.

I love Bend and Bluepoint more than your average poster here. I thought Bluepoint was a brilliant purchase for Sony, I can also recognize that neither Bend nor Bluepoint have been crucial to the success of PlayStation historically.

P.S. I bought both the Syphon Filter PSP games.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Some of their internal studios were closed because of the gaas focus .

Only Firewalk and rightly so.

 

[Fabieter]

The idea that you would rate Bend over GG is again evidence that you're not in touch with reality. Day's Gone sold at a super low unit price especially compared to Horizon. Add in Killzone and GG is way ahead of Bend. It's not close.

When they would have shown horizon 1 and Horizon 2 with a ubisoft logo I would totally believed it. It's generic as fuck on all levels. They had a big marketing budget and that's the only reason it sold as it did. It's a B Tier studio besides their technical abilities.

What internal studio was closed down because of GaaS focus? Name one?

London Studios got axed and we had leaks about their game being a coop fantasy game.

Playstation as a whole is just selling on brand this generation. They made so many bad decisions. Their service is overpriced for what they offer and they managed their portfolio badly af. But in the end brand means more than meaningful decisions inside a company.

And we have people here saying that hulst is the best studio head Playstation ever had. Iam done with the delulu land.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

When they would have shown horizon 1 and Horizon 2 with a ubisoft logo I would totally believed it. It's generic as fuck on all levels. They had a big marketing budget and that's the only reason it sold as it did. It's a B Tier studio besides their technical abilities.




London Studios got axed and we had leaks about their game being a coop fantasy game.

Playstation as a whole is just selling on brand this generation. They made so many bad decisions. Their service is overpriced for what they offer and they managed their portfolio badly af. But in the end brand means more than meaningful decisions inside a company.

And we have people here saying that hulst is the best studio head Playstation ever had. Iam done with the delulu land.

I'm seriously considering putting you on ignore.

Name me the last successful London Studios game. They didn't get shutdown because of the live service push, they got shutdown because they haven't produced in years.